New Laptop Advice - P8400 - Why is it so cheap compared to T9300 etc?

I am planning on replacing my 18 months old T2060 laptop by a laptop with one of these processors.

I currently have a "Toshiba Satellite L30-106".

I'd love to hear your recommendations based on my investigations. I will not make such a wrong decision as I did last time again. I love my workstation (Q6600), but my laptop is terrible.

Processor Options

• Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile T9300
• Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile P8400

Advantages P8400 over T9300:

• newer
• no big GHz difference
• cheaper
• uses less power
• less old

I would really like to hear from you which CPU choice is best in my case!

• Why I should pay € 100,- more for a T9300?
• Is it really that much faster?
• What CPU would you pick personally?

Laptop Usage

• Travelling with train (3 hours ride) and wifi internet
• Doing Officework while downloading using USENET and quickpar at once, my T2060 was horrible at this! It seemed like a single-core processor as it really fainted. I do not wish to have a slow PC when I'm multitasking. This was my first laptop experience, but it's been a very bad one. At the T2060 is slower than my 4-year old AMD64-3000! And it's battery is 15 minutes! I've decided to replace laptop and not fix/upgrade.
• Doing a lot of work at once, without delays
• Watching divx/avi/hddvd movies
• I'm not playing new games of the last 2 years.

Specifications (currently planned):

• Processor: Comparable to Q6600, as much cache as possible! Faster than my current T2060 and as much cache as possible.
• Battery: 4 hours+ - Last one was 15/20 minutes.
• HDD: 200/320GB +
• Memory: 4GB
• Monitor: 11-14,1", 1440x960 (not too big)
• DVD-Rewriter
• Video: Not too expensive, but I'm prepared to pay for a VGA card that's worth it's price.
• Webcam: Yes, if not too expensive (€ 25 is OK)
• Windows Vista Ultimate/Business not needed, I can install these myself.
• Warranty: 3 years
• Budget: € 900,-

I should've posted here before, before I bought a laptop for € 700,- a while ago. It was the worst decision in my life. Now I'm stuck with a broken battery and worthless processor in my laptop.

I am looking forward to hear from you. I was really impressed by your answers last time I've created a topic. What considerations would you make if you were in my position?

 

The T9300 has 6m of L2 cache, but operates at the 800mhz FSB speed and a 35w TDP.
The P8400 is the latest iteration of Centrinos and operates at a 1066 FSB speed, with 3m of L2 cache and a 25w TDP.

It is unlikely that an older laptop such as your Satellite will be able to employ the 1066 FSB speed. However, that is not to say the P8400 would not work at all, it would just clock down.

If you are going for speed- T9300
If you are going for battery life- P8400

 

• Don't pay. Go for the P8400.
• Nope, same performance.
• P8400/P8600

Larger L2 Cache > Increased Latency > Increased access time.

Basically, a smaller L2 Cache will have lower access times.

All applications do not make use of CPU cache, and the applications which do --> 80-90% of the memory accesses are caught by the L1, less than 10% go to the L2, and even fewer go to the memory.

 

First check if P8400 (Centrino 2 processor) is compatible with your laptop. Your laptop probably uses the older chipset (Santa Rosa). That chipset's FSB runs at 800mhz. I doubt the P8400 is compatible with your laptop. The T9300 is definitely compatible though. The T9300 runs at 2.53 Ghz compared with 2.26 Ghz which is 10% faster.

 

very confused after reading through this post.

 

I am sorry, I am Dutch. My post might've not been very clear as my English isn't that good.

For example: I'm planning to replace my old laptop, not buying new hardware for it.

That means I've chosen the incorrect forum part? Haven't I?

Most important question is: P8400 or T9x00?
Why is the T9x00-series more popular and why take it over the P8400? I love l2 cache, but both have 6MB cache...

 

yes. wrong forum section. however, just go with the p8400, it is actually better.

 

The P series C2D consumes 10W less than its previous Core 2 cousins, so its a much more energy efficient CPU that also introduces some performance improvements to ensure that it is just as fast as previous CPUs, but at lower clock speeds. The P8400 will perform just as well as the T9300, while consuming significantly less power.

Wrt to why the T9300 is more popular - it probably has to do with its higher clock speed (2.5 vs 2.26). Many people still have this notion that higher clock speed automatically means better performance.

 

i really dont think the P series is any more energy efficient.

for example
AMD released a 90 watt and 65watt version of their amd 4200 desktop processor at the same time.
I bought both of them.
Both have the same running voltage and the same amperage usage.
Its actually funny cause both actually had a tdp or 58 watts, thus both were in the 65watt envelope.
So why was the 65watt one more expensive, marketing thats why
the 90watt rated one was also 58 watts and like $50 less at the time

I feel this is the same with these monteveina chips. I think the 25 watt and 35 watt TDP versions are all a scam. They are most likely all the same in power consumption as my amd desktop cpus were.

It would be interesting if anyone with a 35 watt tdp monteveina chip upgraded to an identical clocked p chip with 25 watts, and noted the battery life differences and the rmclock voltages of each.
Than we would know for sure.

K-TRON

 

The fast that the P8400 only has 3MB L2 cache does make think there is a big difference between the T9300 and P8400.

I have a T2060 at the moment and it's terrible at multi-tasking. Opening Outlook for example, takes ages. Combined with Photoshop and Dreamweaver, WinRar, QuickPar, Outlook... you can see where I'm going.

I think the T2060's 1MB L2 cache is more to blame than it's 1.6 GHz.

I am scared though that this bad experience and this frustration with my current laptop, is going to leave me, making irrational decisions on the new laptop.

I am selling my T2060 laptop for € 300 and buying a new one for € 900. Is it possible to get a good P8400 laptop with 4 hours battery and the specifications mentioned above for € 900,-?

 

dennis, I am afraid your T2060 is not the reason your system is bad at multitasking, it is definitely your harddrive.
If you are using a low density 5400rpm drive or a 4200rpm drive, even with a T9300 the performance will be bad. Those programs you mentioned are very harddrive intensive, so if you have a slow harddrive, the system will run at a crawl. Upgrading the harddrive will increase performance drastically with loading files.

For a new laptop, look with something with a T8100 or better processor, probably from last generation the 800MHz FSB processors, caue you are on a budget, a decent graphics card like a 8400GS, 8600GT or a 3450from ATI, 3Gb of memory and say a 200 -320gb 7200rpm drive.
I think to have that performance with 4hrs battery, you will want something like a Lenovo T61p, studio 15 from dell, or something along those lines.
I assume you are overseas cause of the currency, so you may want to check out Zepto for a stylish powerful laptop. (Znote, Mythos, Nox)

K-TRON

 

I currently have a 80GB 7200 RPM hard disk drive on my T2060 laptop and the laptop is slow as hell.

 

P8400 is plenty fast for CPU-intensive tasks. Its TDP is lower, whose advantage in terms of battery life will only be noticeable when the CPU cores are stressed while on battery.

Dreamweaver, QuickPar, Outlook do not utilize the CPU cache. WinRAR and Photoshop do.

Outlook loads slow mainly due to the reason that you may have a slow HDD. CPU does not play any role in application loading times. Its all upon the HDD. Faster the HDD, faster the app and windows loading times.

You can checkout the Acer Aspire 5930G, which has a P8400, and a 9300M GS/9600M GT.

EDIT: Anyway, which HDD is it ? (Model ?)

 

your 80gb 7200rpm drive is most likely an older gen 7k100 or seagate momentus 7200.1 drive, which means the drive has an average speed of about 28mb/sec for seagate or 34mb/sec for the Hitachi. Both of which are slow in todays world.
Also with all of that software installed, that 7200rpm drive will be stressed, so it may only yiels 20mb/sec.
You can test with hdtune (its a free download)

K-TRON

 

I wish to compliment everybody for their contribution in this thread! I will certainly look up the specifications of my hard drive for you!

Are these laptops any good for me? I pretty much filtered out any other laptops (see Tweakers.net link)
- MSI Megabook PR201W-006NL
- Samsung Q210 AS04

I filtered based on:
- P8400
- 4GB
- 12 - 14"
- 320GB

And that only leaves 2 laptops.

Source: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/...=&i437=&a437=&scoreMin=0&scoreMax=5&x=12&y=10

 

dennis88,

If you want to learn more about the MSI:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1015

If you want to learn more about the Samsung:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1011

I cannot recommend you those systems, because I do not know alot about them.
The best people to ask are people who have the laptop.
I am sure you can hunt a few owners of both systems down in those subforums.
Send them a Personal message(s) with questions and concerns you have.
The nbr family is for the mostpart friendly, and you should receive a response back.

I can recommend hardware to choose, but its always best to get answers from someone who has the machine, so you can weight the positives and negatives, and make your selection

K-TRON

 

Hello,

My disk drive is a ST980825AS.
Seagate Momentus 7200.1 ST980825AS - hard drive - 80 GB - SATA-150

It's supposed to be a great disk drive though.
Although I've never experienced working fast on this laptop and being able to run multiple processes.
Also I've never had the battery working more than 40 minutes.

Anyway, this is my laptop in the past. I will sell it online.
Is there a big difference between T8100 and P8400?
I wish to maximize bang for bucks as long as I have great performance and 4 hours battery. Those are my main requirements.

I liked that list by the way Andy! It shows a good indication of cpu speeds.
I don't understand that it says my T2060 should be faster than my Athlon3000 which is not the case, not even on XP.

I liked the Acer 5930G, but it has a T5xxx CPU, which seems not powerful enough for my usage.
Once again, everybody thanks for responding and K-TRON, thanks for staying to answer my questions.

I will read some articles on this website and read the forums, that should certainly give me more information.

 

One thing to keep in mind is, the more powerful of a processor, video card, or hard drive you select, expect your battery life to drain faster. If you want the in-the-middle, performance processor, while maintaining battery life, go with the P8400. I have it in my Gateway, and it certainly is no slouch in multi-tasking. But, keep in mind I have a 200gb 7,200rpm hard drive, with has a great average speed, and 4GB of RAM.

Choosing just one good component won't solve your problems. Try to select a very balanced system (P8400/P8600, 200gb/320gb 7,200rpm HDD, integrated / low end graphics, 3-4GB of RAM). Then, you will have a speedy system that will instantly boot up Photoshop and all those programs.

Like I said above, if you want a speedy system, it will be at the expense of your battery life. So really you have 2 options:

1. Get a 9/12 cell battery for your laptop, if it comes with a standard 6-cell. Of course, there is a drawback to this, and it is the extra weight that the battery adds, and the battery may protrude the back of your notebook.

2. Your other option is to buy a spare battery (6/9-cell should do the job).

Your dilemma is all to common here, and sadly it's very hard to come to a compromise. Hope this'll help you a bit.

 

I have a T5300 in my dell e1505 and with a 6 cell battery, dedicated graphics, 2gb memory and Hitachi 7200rpm drive, I only get 1hr 45 minutes max on battery.

I have a T7300 in my Lenovo T61 and undervolted and screen dimmed, it can do 6hrs battery on a 9 cell battery, but with the screen bright, it gets around 5hr 15 minutes

It will be hard to get something which lasts long on battery, which is cheap

I think the best battery life is had on the latitude e6400 which John Ratsey has. Dell lists it at 19hrs battery, but I think John said its like 8-9hrs.

It has an integrated graphics card, but it supports the latest generation processors and harddrives, so it is also another good option.
here is his review:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=296872

The lenovo T400 is also a good choice to look at, its basically the e6400's competition.

Also Tinderbox (UK) has a samsung Q210, so he may be able to give you his feelings on it, he is a nice guy.

Dont be worried about the detrimental effects of a 7200rpm drive on your laptop. I just upgraded from a 160gb 5400drive in my dell E1505 to a Hitachi 160gb 7200rpm drive and my battery life actually increased by just under 10 minutes.
The new generation 7200rpm drives are very power efficient and can average more than 60mb/sec, making them more than 2x as fast as the first generation 7200rpm drives (like the one you have), while using less power.

K-TRON

 

Go for the 9300. L2 cache is faster than RAM, even with addressing. 3mb extra (doubling!) is worth it. If you however, aren't doing anything processing intensive, save your money.

 

dennis88 the reason your Toshiba is slow is that you are running Vista with 1 GB. A couple of people have told you this in your other thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=3972042

If you want to upgrade your Toshiba, first add memory, then replace the harddrive.

If you still want to buy a new laptop go for the P8400. It's more than fast enough for the tasks you do.

By the way the P8400 does not consume 10 watt less than T9300. At the highest load the cooling system of the P8400 requires to dissipate 10 watt less than the T9300.

 

I am planning on ordening my Q210 tomorrow. I don't actually mind if I would've paid € 75,- too much afterwards, as long as I will have a decent notebook for the future.

T8100 is € 210. P8400 is €180.
And the P8400 seems faster according to benchmarks!

PS: PhilFlow, thank you, but I'm going to purchase an entire new laptop.

 

This one is pretty good as well:
http://nl.computers.toshiba-europe....Satellite-U400-136/1056755/toshibaShop/false/

You can get it for 820,-
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/222082/toshiba-satellite-u400-136.html

The Samsung has the better GPU though.

 

Phil, K-TRON and everybody! I have ordered my Q210 and feel like I have made the correct decision. It has a great CPU as you all told me. Upgrading to T8100 would be a downgrade and upgrading to T9300 would cost $300, that's not necessary.

I will receive my laptop tomorrow. I hope the 12" won't be too small, but I don't feel it will.

@Phil:
You are correct. It is € 100,- cheaper and has 99,9% the same specifications, although:
Disadvantages:

• 1 Year Warranty. This is important to me.
• Toshiba. I have a bad Toshiba experience. A new branch (Samsung) will do me good.
• U400-136 might be more bang for bucks as it's cheaper, but I wouldn't mind having paid € 75,- too much as I've stated before, as long I will have a great laptop for the future which will give me a good laptop experience, which I really need.

 

And the Samsung has the Nvidia 9200M GPU, so nice laptop definetely.