New Processor = Worse Gaming Performance?

Good afternoon all. I've been doing various upgrades to my laptop over the past couple of weeks. First was a 4GB to 8GB RAM upgrade, followed by an upgrade from Vista to 7 (64-bit) the other day and a CPU upgrade from Core 2 Duo P8400 to Core 2 Extreme X9100 last night. While I did not really get to play around too much in between the Windows upgrade and the processor upgrade, now that everything is in place my gaming performance has taken a hit (unless it's in my head and I'm just crazy). I have a 9600M GT, and on one game for instance I think I've lost a consistent 10fps (at the least). I'm not really sure what I can pinpoint the problem to be, though I hope someone here may have a better idea. If it helps any, when switching the CPU I had to reapply my thermal paste to the GPU and heatsink as well. I'm hoping I didn't mess that up, if that could even be a reason to my current problem. Is there possibly a step I missed when changing out CPUs? I'm out of theories for right now. Thanks in advance.

 

Drivers can make a big difference - do you have the latest?

With regards to the thermal paste - check your temps with HWMonitor or other similar program while you're gaming. If the temps go too high, your cpu and/or your gpu could be throttling themselves.

Also, update all your firmware and BIOSes to the most current level too.

Good luck.

 

Yea, the P series draw 25w of power whereas the X draws 44w so it could be causing too much heat causing the system to overheat.

 

Seems like it might be a temperature issue... Check processor temps while gaming

 

For my Nvidia drivers, I have a forceware version from laptopvideo2go's website, are there drivers for the processor as well? I searched but couldn't find any if there are.

As far as the temperature, as far as I can tell my laptop isn't running even as hot as it was before the switch, though this is just my observation purely from touch, I don't know if there's more to it than that. Also, I got a diagnostic tool from Intel's site and it looks like everything cleared on that test, including temperatures. I'll try looking for that HWMonitor you mentioned as well.

Regarding BIOS, I only ever found one update through Sony for my laptop's series, which I had updated before I switched to Windows 7. Now I try to run the update again but it won't let me run it on 7 at all.

Speaking of BIOS, a coworker of mine told me to remove the backup battery while I had the casing open. Also, another forum member suggested I do the same thing. What would this do in this situation and would I lose the BIOS update I had used before? I appreciate you guys' help, this experience is a little unnerving, to say the least.

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention that the framerate drops almost immediately getting into the game, even from a cold start of the computer.

 

So, as far as the temperatures go, how much is too much? I'm monitoring them now.

 

90 is high, even 85 is relatively high for a processor.

 

So, if I'm looking at 98, does this essentially mean if I want my performance back, switch back? Haha. Or are there any other options I may have?

And what should my actual GPU's temp be measuring? It's in the mid-90s as well.

 

Jesus.

Try repasting. But it sounds to me that the processor just produces too much heat and the cooling system cant handle it.

 

Now if it's just the processor, would that be putting my GPU's temp in that 90-93 area as well?

 

Not necessarily.

Are you running it on a cooler or anything? You could also try to that mitigate some of the heat and cool it down.

 

He never said what kind of notebook, each notebook has it's own cooling system.

Yes that is way too hot, what thermal paste did you use? Perhaps it's not making proper contact.

 

It's the Antec Formula 5 thermal paste. From what I understand, you only put a thin amount onto both the CPU and GPU chip surfaces, correct? This was my first time doing it, is there a way to know if it's making "proper contact?"

The laptop is a Vaio VGN-AW125J/H, if this helps any.

 

Yea that's too much CPU in a machine like that.

 

It's a shame, only had it in for a day, haha. Someone else has done this setup and it definitely did not turn out the way it was described to me. I guess the only route is to switch it out again tomorrow.

 

However, this now raises another mystery to me (I'm new to this). What's bringing my GPU temperature up? Bad paste job?

 

You can use RMClock to undervolt Core 2 CPUs, there's a whole guide on how to do that posted somewhere here. I did it on my old laptop and cut 20 degrees off the CPU temp.

If your CPU and GPU share a heatsink, an increase in temps for one will necessitate an increase in temps for the other.

 

What stepping of X9100 did you get? Probably the C0 I'm afraid... And if you were planning on just throwing it in there and not overclocking it, why would you even spend so much money on it?

Not true.

 

OP, you do know that there is a 'different' proper way to repaste different components, right?

This is for Arctic Silver, but it should give you an idea of what you should be looking for:

See:
Arctic Silver, Inc. - Instructions

Good luck.

 

Could there have been thermal pads that were replaced with paste?

 

Well it goes you show you the process of binning. Not all CPUs are created alike. The Sony should be all spec'd the same and have the same design.

 

Binning? He bought an Extreme Edition cpu, and you are blaming this on binning?

My guesses are thermal pad that was replaced with paste and C0 stepping processor.

 

Well my point was not every CPU is made alike. Now it's still an extreme jump from 25 watt to 44 watt, but I guess 1-2C difference maybe from another X9000.

By any chance, were you willing to sell it?

 

Trottel, what is the significance of a C0 stepping processor? Initial release?

I have a stepping '6' P8400 in my VAIO - are later steppings more stable/cooler, (or something else)?

 

Err I only see C0 for X9000, though 2 different spec codes

Intel® Core?2 Extreme Processor X9000 (6M Cache, 2.80 GHz, 800 MHz FSB)with SPEC Code(s)SLAQJ, SLAZ3

 

Your P8400 is an R0 (3MB) stepping, which along with the E0 (6MB), is the final Core 2 revision. The X9100 came out first as a C0 stepping, the preceding revision of Core 2. Later it came out with the E0 stepping, but judging from what I've been able to find on Ebay, the E0 stepping ones are pretty rare. The first two versions of Core 2 perform similarly, but the final one reduced power consumption and increased overclockability. Not as drastic as going from 65nm to 45nm, but still quite pronounced.

That's not the way it works. At the same voltage and frequency, any processors that are the same stepping are going to have the same heat output/power consumption. Better binned products can go to higher frequencies and/or with less voltage. Extreme CPU's are going to be the best of the best. Differences between them really come out under extreme overclocking, but really aren't going to matter or be noticeable around stock clocks.

He has an X9100, not an X9000.

 

your temps can easily reach those temps in a heated room with no fan or nothing. With an older laptop and a nvidia card that dont handle heat as well you have to take extra measures. Make sure your laptop has sufficient room to suck in air to the laptop and blow it out so prop it up if you can. Also have a fan near by and when your using the laptop, don't keep your room heated while using it. Certain softwares(games etc...) can make temps go higher then others of course so know your limits with it. Your not going to be playing battlefield bad company 2 with 31 other players and expecting to wipe them all out with your 9600 gt video card all while keeping your temps as cool as ice. With a laptop like that 90's is going to be your spot of keeping a carefull eye on things, anything over 99 you want to take notice and take preventative measures.

Consistently using cards with very hot thermal cycles is tough on a card but it seems nvidia has been hit xtra hard.

 

It looks like I did the application correctly. I covered the surface of the CPU and GPU just thin enough to where I couldn't see surface of either anymore.

There was one thermal pad that was removed (chipset) according to a fellow AW's write up. To make up for it, the paste was put on a little thicker here.

I'm going to look into this undervolting thing (possibly), but if things still aren't working out in a week or two, this thing will probably be coming soon to an eBay near you, haha.

Oh, and thank you everyone for your input so far. Hopefully I can tackle this issue somehow.

 

As a suggestion, you might want to consider popping the old CPU back in anyway, just to make sure it's the new CPU and not your TIM application or something else. If you get the same high temperatures with your old CPU, then the problem may not be the CPU itself. If, on the other hand, popping in your old CPU puts everything back to the way it used to be, then it's much more likely that the problem is specifically your new CPU.

 

Yeah, that was one of the things I was considering doing. I never monitored the temperatures until now, but at the very least I could tell with my eyes if the performance went back to normal. I guess I'm just wanting to get people's input before I have to crack this thing open again.

 

Huh?
How is it not true?

Intel® Core?2 Duo Processor P8400 (3M Cache, 2.26 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB)with SPEC Code(s)SL3BU, SLB3Q, SLB3R, SLB4M, SLB52, SLG8Z, SLGCC, SLGCF, SLGCL, SLGCQ, SLGE2, SLGFC
ALL P series are 25w TDP......

Intel® Core?2 Extreme Processor X9100 (6M Cache, 3.06 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB)with SPEC Code(s)SLB48, SLGE7
X series are 44w TDP.
At least the x9100 and x9000 are....

 

I think a thick layer of thermal paste is bad for thermal conductivity (the heat won't get through). Plus, thermal paste is not designed to fill gaps. I would try the original thermal pad and see how it goes.

 

Unfortunately, I think that original thermal pad is long gone. Any place I can guy something to replace this?

On a different note, I've put the P8400 back in and so far no crazy spikes in temperature readings. I'll probably just keep everything as it was. What a weekend, haha.

 

Well, I'm not sure where to get it (ebay maybe?), but as the temp looks good now, you don't have to worry about your pasting job then.

I thought about getting a X9100 once, but I decided to go with a T9900 as it has better stepping. It runs cool too (31~32C idle, 56~60C load).

 

any decent computer store will have thermal pads. The local micro center has them in a 5 pack for $4-

 

You are confusing TDP with power consumption, a common fallacy on this forum.

 

Luls sorry I used the wrong term.
Please forgive me.

I meant to say they produce that much power. How much heat they produce vs. cooling system.

 

That's still the same incorrect thinking. Power consumption can be closely approximated as a constant that varies depending on the type and stepping of the processor, multiplied by the frequency, multiplied by the square of the voltage. So an X9100 (E0 stepping) running at the same frequency and voltage of a T9900 will have the same power consumption, regardless of the fact that the X9100 is assigned a TDP of 44w and the T9900 is assigned a TDP of 35w. TDP is a semi-arbitrary number assigned to mean that if you have power circuitry and a cooling system capable of handling the TDP, you will be all set.

 

Processors do not produce power, s2odin, sorry.
What trottel said. Its not about terminology, its about the fundamentals of physics.

Also it should be known that the x9100 doesn't really have a 44w TDP when its not overclocked (I'm pretty sure).