No reason to buy AMD Turion X2 based laptops...no reason at all.

Well almost no reason. Ive purchased an AMD Turion X2 based laptop ONLY to support AMD. Was it the smart thing to do for me? Not really but keeping AMD alive is hugely important to the computer industry.

Other than supporting AMD there is NO reason to be buying an AMD Turion x2 based laptop. No reason at all...

Its quite laughable how Core2Duo and Turion X2 chips have the SAME 35 watt TPD. AMD is clearly fibbing here.

CPU TEMPS :
My new AMD Turion x2 TL-58 based laptop idles at 53 degrees C
Similar Core2Duo based laptop? 40 degrees

Under FULL Load?
My Turion X2 - 79 degrees C OUCH!!!! and this is AFTER I installed Arctil Silver 5. The chip ran at 81c with the stock paste.
Similar Core2Duo based unit? only 60 degrees C with stock thermal paste!

The similar Core2Duo based laptop with its 1.66ghz was still overall about 15% faster than my 1.9ghz Turion X2. Yes I monitored CPU usage under various Apps

SO, why buy the Turion x2 laptop??? For the same price or even lower you can get the "Pentium Dual core" which is basically CoreDuo and have a MUCH cooler running laptop with equal if not better performance and def better battery life. Sorry AMD

 

I would tend to agree. I have an HP wit the Turion X2, and it RUNS hot so hot that it has already melted the paint from underneath. I have it in for service to replace motherboard that apparently overheated. I like AMD because it keeps Intel honest, but the Turion is not ready compared to its Intel cousins...

 

The reason why the AMD Turions run hotter is because of the design of the laptop. Most of the time the C2D's are in higher end laptops which use thinner plastics and are reinforced by metal frames and have a better cooling system.

AMD's are in "budget" laptops which are 90% thick plastics which act as insulators. The cooling system isn't as beefy.

HP is the worst at doing this. I've taken apart so many laptops and that's what I see. Most of the time they use aluminum heatsinks with a single heatpipe compared to C2Ds which use copper with 2 heatpipes. At least the consumer models

The business line AMDs (yes they did make budget business models with AMDs) are not as bad.

The second reason is that the chipset used with C2D's are Intel which run cooler than the Nvidia or AMD ones with integrated gfx.

Reasons to take AMD over CoreDuo 64bit, AMD's faster in most but not all apps. In that price range AMD's have better gfx solutions. CDs are more power friendly than AMD or C2D.

 

I wonder if Intel simply has better implementations of C & P states. My Pentium M stays in C3 or lower 97% of the time. Conversly, hitting it with CPUBurn without any undervolt causes some serious heat-up and power draw.

 

The reason to keep buying them is to keep competition going.. What do you think happens when intel becomes the only Processor supplier in the world.. They get lazy. After all AMD processors are much more comparable on the budget lines... But heck i do much prefer my core 2 duo Dont forget this isnt as much of an heat issue in desktops... and AMD processors are cheap.

Must edit that for a sec...
My C2D T7200 idles @ 27c with artic silver ... and maxes out @ around 45...
My GPU maxes at a hotter 55c (idle 38c average)... (with overclocks though) Dunno if its because GPUS are hoter and can withstand more heat but seeing as they both use the same heatsink (which if they didnt im sure i would be hitting the room temperature mark almost) My fan is never on so ive got a silent laptop basicallyIf the fans going its not pat 1500rpm. But i do undervolt my C2D

BTW... speedfan reports my laptop has 3 fans but i can only ever hear one being turned on... and the other two are constantly at 0 or 922rpm(reported in speedfan but i cant hear them)... has anyone else opens up a 6400 and can confirm that its either 3 or just the one fan?

 

and I can confirm my laptop has the newer 65nm chip.

 

WRONG. I have both IDENTICAL designed laptops made by gateway. One core2duo and one turion X2. They use the EXACT same chassis and heatsinks and fans. Yes I opened the bottom covers.

 

I do hate the temps on HP laptops in general. My cousin owns two (I keep telling her to buy a Dell). She spend about $1000 on each of them and they both run MAD hot. Plus I don't understand the bottom vent. Considering most people will run the laptop on a flat surface or on their laps, the bottom vent tends to get bad air flow. If they just stuck opened up the side vent a little more, it would make more sense.

 

Of course with desktops you have large heatsinks and all the power in the world. Its a non-issue with desktops.

 

Agree,
AMD seems to be fading out of competition which is a bad, very, very bad. For most budget laptops, people tend to buy AMD for some reasons.
1- AMD usually comes with slightly better graphic cards than intel. for example Nvidia go 6150, which could be found in many pc's and better at gaming on a budget laptop.
2- AMD is usually slightly cheaper (or use to be) but the price difference seems to have diminished.

People say that the difference in energy consumption/speed of AMD and a comparable intel, is present only when the laptops are under full/heavy load and that you wont notice much difference under mild/normal load, I dont think so. My AMD lappie's is hotter and the fan is mostly on than my friend's identical intel..plus his get better battery life and runs a little quite.
We all know what competition does for the consumer. Without a competition, prices will remain high, advancement will slow down, customer support becomes horrible, and things get boring!

 

Well there's your problem you got crappy Gateways.

Can you take a picture of both machines. I'm willing to bet that the AMD has a different chipset. Unless it is the world's first AMD laptop to use an Intel chipset.

 

The ONLY other reason someone might want the Turion x2 is for virtualization support for programs like VMware. Intel does not offer virtualization support on any of there current produced chips other than high-end T7000 series Core2Duos

 

Lets not forget 64 Bit. Sometimes just sometimes people want to use more than 3.5 Gigs of RAM.

 

Of course its got an entirely different motherboard!. Both laptops use the EXACT same chasis and heatsink and fan. Both the intel and AMD boards are identical in shape to fit the chassis.

The laptop is the gateway T-Series.

 

Intel chips are mostly 64 bit now though.. Well Core 2 duos are right??

 

Let's hope the K10 architecture will be successful enough to save AMD. Analysts say that if it goes down the drain, AMD will follow shortly.

 

Yes but the CD's don't. The AMD's are priced in the range of the CD machines.

 

Yer i really hope AMD survives...

 

Yes, I really regret getting the TL-50 1.6ghz Turion X2 in my Compaq V3000, really dislike it. Runs extremely hot at the bottom, and performance doesn't seem that great, I swore that my 1.33ghz ULV Pentium M had matched or beat it in some aspects.

No more AMD for me, at least in notebooks.

 

Remember hat we can thank AMD the new C2D Intel brought to the market...AMD Athlon64 was killing Intel old Netburst Architecture (P4s) and was way better in Server architecure also...C2D was the natural response from Intel to keep up.
That is why we need them both (or more) alive...just the beat eachothers and give us better products.

 

Obviously those aspects were bottlenecked by something other than the CPU.

 

My old Pentium 4 usually never goes over 72C during full load, and right now is between 57-64C with spyware, antivirus, and 47 total processes running.

 

Well the AMD cpus are generally found in low end laptops, so I think one reason to buy them is for the low price.

 

nevermind.

 

You cant compare that. Your pentium 4 laptop CPU eats twice as much power as any turion X2 and the heatsink mass on your Pentium 4 laptop is about easy 4 times more than on any Turion x2. In the end my Turion X2 laptop is slim and weighs 5lbs while you pentium 4 laptop is a 7-8 pound BEAST. Like I said you can compare that.

If you stuck that pentium 4 heatsink on to any Turion x2 you wouldnt even need a fan to cool it and it would stay cool.

Come on people! This is simple common sense!

 

hmmmm
I don't have a problem with my Turion.
It runs cool & silent fans barely turn on.
The 65nms run cooler but, I agree intel has the lead in performance & temps but, AMD reigns supreme in the budget CPU market.
The reason to buy AMD is there Price erformance Ratio.

 

onion I'm quite curious what program did you use to obtain the temp of cpu and what ambient temp at the time of testing?

My Core2Duo Cpu idle at 50 degree Celcius with Arctil Silver 5 applied and ambient temp is 20 degree Celcius. Using RMClock.

Not quite able to reach 40 degree you mentioned.

EDIT: I just realized that it is 1.66g cpu, so that might spell the difference in cpu temp

 

Oww and I should mention this.
We can think AMD for 64 bit as even C2D chips use whats known as AMD 64.
Which is way better then Intels Itanium.

 

I used SpeedFan to checks temps

 

I chose my laptop off the store shelf after Future Shop's warranty covered my previous laptop, which had serious design flaws. I picked the HP b/c of the graphics card; and the fact that all the other laptops were Toshibas or Acers (the Toshibas had cheap construction materials and the Acers all idled hot with spongy keyboards) made my decision obvious. Overall I am happy with this laptop. My battery life is always over 3 hours and the CPU performs as well as I want it to.

The problem is that you guys are comparing the X2 to the Core 2 Duo. Remember that Intel is a generation ahead, and that AMD designed the X2 to compete directly with the Core Duo, not the Merom.

 

I had a Toshiba A100 with a C2D T5200, it idled at around 45C, and under heavy load, it would be 80+(I didn't want to overheat it with 2xPrime95, the fan was like screaming). After I undervolted it, it would be less than 60C.

Now I have a A200 with a C2D T5250, with a larger heat sink, and after I undervolted it, my idle would be around 48C(fan on at 50C, off at 46C), and under 2xPrime95, it would top at at 47C, because the fan keeps running to keep at that temperature and occasionally the fan would stop.

Both of them didn't have aftermarket paste or a cooling pad.

 

onion,

On my Compaq V3000Z ith the 90nm Turion X2 TL50 idle temperatures are around 40C and the max with dual Prime was around 70C(as tested with Core Temp).

The temps on these systems is to a large extent dependant on the cooling system(not just the heat sink/pipes or the thermal paste). It also depends on the motherboard layout and how efficiently the system handles the dissipation of heat. I dont think its very accurate to base judgement on a whole series of cpu based on recordings made on a single notebook series. The Turion might run slower in terms of performance compared to the C2D's but my experience has been that they are pretty similar when it comes to heat dissipation.

 

for AMD people get a nice cooler, i dunno with my AMD in my T-1616 it gets hot but not unusable hot, just hot, ilke any regular laptop.

AMD is much cheaper compared to intel, so amd's market is the budget market.

 

Miner, You obviously dont have much experiance then...

1. Your Turion x2 TL-50 is the crippled version with only 256kb L2 cache per core and only runs at 1.6ghz. The Turion im my laptop is 1.9ghz with TWICE as much L2 cache. Since AMD CPUs NEVER turn off L2 cache like in Intel designs you can CLEARLY see why my Turion runs at a higher temp. Its clocked higher and has 25% more transistors to power.

2. As I stated before, I have IDENTICAL laptops with the EXACT same chassis and cooling solutions. One AMD Turion X2 TL-58 based and the other Core2Duo 1.66ghz based. Did you even read my posts?

3. You have to remember my knowledge in electrical and thermal engineering is FAR superior to even people with countless posts in laptop threads.

 

Im not saying there is anything wrong with the temps. Im just saying Intel is so SUPERIOR in thermal and power conservation along with performance that there is NO reason to buy AMD. Even Intels budget "Pentium Dual Core" are a much better solution and cost LESS than AMD Turion X2.

 

You missed the point, you are claiming that there is no reason to buy a whole series of processors based on the results of your one particular comparision. That is not enough to conclusively state your point. Is it?

BTW, assumptions are never really a good idea. You really dont know who I am or what I do. Plus I dont care who you are or what you do or your post count.

Again, you based that on your single comparision?? Speaking of cost again its not always the case is it? Are all PDC systems priced lower than Turion X2's? I dont think so.

 

Got proof or just all bark and no bite?

Can you state the mathematical relationships of clock speed and voltage to power consumption derived from stock? I think that'll be simple enough for some proof.

 

Meh, don't worry about it. If it's not you buying AMD laptop based procs, it'll be the idiots at Best Buy and Circuit City that do (not saying that you're an idiot by any means). I walked into Circuit City today to check out HP's dv6500se, and there was a FireDog sales rep helping a married couple out with their first laptop purchase. The lady wanted to know what processor was the best to get in a laptop. The guy responds:

"Yeah, the AMD Turion is way better than the Intel Centrino's. They run cooler and are less expensive. Plus, they are more powerful."

I had to laugh as the couple then bought an AMD TL-58 HP laptop based on his recomendation, never knowing that the kid (he was about 20 or so) is a complete buffoon. The only thing he got right was the price difference. Everything else was a complete and utter lie.

 

onion
You do realize that CPU temperature is highly based on the room's ambient temperature as well as the efficiency of the cooling system in the notebook itself. For instance my TL-50 at night idles @ 39c while during the day when the room is much warmer the idle temp is around 47c with a max temp of 63c. When I am in an air conditioned room the temperature can actually fall as low as 29c. So the hotter the environment you are in the hotter the CPU will be. Yes I know this is only 1.6ghz but I have overclocked my processor to 1.85ghz several times and those temperature variations hardly moved (and your TL-58 is using the same 31w TDP as the TL-50).
I suggest what you can do to help control your temps is to try undervolting that will help out somewhat to bring your temps down.

Anyway you stated that you have identical notebooks one with an Intel and the other with an AMD, but then aren't they made by the same manufacturer which means you don't have a big enough sample to base a conclusion on. If for instance you said I had a dell, HP, toshiba, acer etc and the same thing was happening then you could draw a conclusion but you didn't do that.

 

Wrong. If I had all different latops I can NOT come to a conclusion because they all have different designs and coolers. Im not saying ALL laptops let the Turion x2 CPUs run at these high temps. Different laptops have different cooling designs.

What I am PROVING here is that Intel Core chips run MUCH cooler and far faster...and by having IDENTICAL cooling solutions this PROVES this.

The conclusion is the title of this thread.....No reason to buy AMD Turion X2 based laptops...no reason at all.

 

You have not proven that they run cooler because you did not test properly.

For all we know the temperature sensor speedfan is using for each is uncalibrated or not on the CPU die or could even be detected incorrectly due to architecture changes (as seen before if you watch this kind of thing at all).

For all we know the heatsink isnt making proper contact with one unit or the other

For all we know the heatsink may be defected on one or the other

For all we know the heasink may have dust in it on one or the other.

Or also quite likely, the bios control of the fan speed on each unit could be different.



Quite frankly your entire attitude and lack of analytical skills have made you look like nothing more than a fanboy so far.

 

STEvil...STEvil...STEvil......

Dont you know ALL current CPUs have on-die sensors.
The heatsink its installed perfectly with arctic silver 5.
Both heatsink and fans are in PERFECT working order.
No, there is NO dust in the heatsinks as the laptops are both new.

There is NO denying the conclusion....

Also, Im PERFECTLY happy with my Turion X2 laptop. Sure it runs at a higher temp than Intel Core based laptops and SURE its SLOWER (takes a 1.9ghz Turion X2 to equal a 1.5ghz C2D) and SURE the battery life is NOT as good but its more than fast enough for my uses and the only reason I bought it was to support AMD even though Intels Core based laptops are a superior design.

 

My old Mitac had a 130nm Athlon 64 and was 47 C idle and 67 C under load. My Intel Celeron is 45-52C idle and similar under load. The T7700 Zepto reviewed below was going over 80 C under load.

I don't know where this whole "AMD runs hotter" thing has come from, I've seen far more complaints about Core Duos and Core 2 Duos running hot.

 

The on-die sensor could be off, no guarantee that it's not faulty and misreporting. Is the actual AMD laptop noticeably warmer? By this I mean is the area of the laptop where the CPU is much warmer? Is the exhaust air much warmer? Is the amount of air exhausted the same as the Intel laptop?

Are you certain the heatsink is making good contact? Not sure if it's possible to check for your laptop, but at the temperatures your stating the heatsink should be scorching if it's doing its job and making the casing around it much warmer.

 

this M5750 with T7400 used to push over 110c before I modified the heatsink.

Now with ~20c ambient it loads at 60c, 70c in 30c ambient with Intel Thermal Analysis Tool (provides more load than most any CPU will ever see).


And of course I realize all CPU's have internal temperatures diodes which is why I stated:

"For all we know the temperature sensor speedfan is using for each is uncalibrated or not on the CPU die or could even be detected incorrectly due to architecture changes (as seen before if you watch this kind of thing at all)."

I guess I could have made it clearer that maybe speedfan is using the wrong temperature sensor, but I thought "not on the CPU die" would be close enough..

 

I cant believe most people here still cant understand this....its really too funny.

Lazybum131...YES the AMD based unit is alot warmer! even at idle.

I cant believe people here cant understand this. Too funny and its laughable when people are posting temps of laptops that nothing to do with this comparison. Too funny how they simply cant understand this thread.

 

People tend to debate blanket statements like yours. As I say, I have seen lots more complaints of Cores running hotter on here than Turions. There's plenty of possible reasons for that, piossibly because there are more Core based machines out there, possibly because AMD owners don't care so much.

Still - no reason to buy AMD? I would say there's no reason to choose AMD over Intel all other things being equal, but not all things are. In my case, if all other aspects of the laptop are equal and the price was equal I'd go for Core 2 Duo. If the laptop specs are otherwise equal and there is a slight price premium for the Core I'd take it over the AMD but if the Core had a large price premium I'd take the AMD.

Finally, if a laptop I had perfect spec for me in all other respects and had an AMD cpu I'd buy it. The make of cpu is not important to me as I don't have brand allegience or run anything cpu intensive. Any new laptop I would buy would have to have cpu access as my last main laptop doesn't have it and has been a pain to clean out the cooling. Whatever my next laptop is, I'd like to have easy cpu access so i can easilty clean the cooling and reseat the cpu with AS5.

So I would say, there is no reason to choose an AMD cpu over Intel in a laptop, all things being equal. The point is, especially in markets other than the USA where pre-configured laptops are the norm, not all things are equal. Intels often are more expensive and we do not always have the choice of picking and choosing exact specs.

 

Thats exactly why you cannot come to that conclusion. You are basing your theory off of a single comparision of 2 gateway notebooks and including all other laptops in your conclusion.

 

I have a Vostro 100 with a TL-60, thing is ice cold and whisper quiet, it was only $600 and runs plenty fast. Can't generalize, because there are always exceptions.

 

TOO FUNNY!!!! How can you not understand whats being proven here? LOL!!!!!!!!!

It has been PROVEN that the Turion x2...
1. Produces more heat even when idle due to the FACT that Turion X2 chips CANNOT turn off sections of L2 cache like Intel Core chips can and do.
2. Is much slower than C2D clock for clock and even alittle slower than "Pentium Dual Core" (former CoreDuo)
3. Battery life is lower on Turion X2 laptops. (this has been PROVEN 100 times) AGAIN because it produces MORE heat.

Its laughable how in denial you people are. Simply too funny!