Non-upgradeability in laptops

I am in the market for a new laptop. As difficult as it can be to decide on different configurations, it becomes much more so when RAM and hard drives are are not user upgradeable or swappable.

I was all set to buy this a Toshiba S70, but then I learned that the HD could not be replaced by the user. Making this even more difficult is that this info was not available either on the Toshiba site or in the spec sheet. I just happened to learn this while chatting online with a service rep.

How common is this? Especially with hard drives. My last few laptops have all given me access to RAM and the HD, and I like knowing that if necessary, I could put in a larger or faster HD, or just swap out an old one for a new one, or as a backup.

Is this just the way it is?

 

Many manufacturers don't want users to dismantle their products because of the risk of damage. However, many users undertake their own upgrades. There is a difference between something being soldered and physically non-upgradable and the manufacturer trying to discourage the user. The guiding principles are: be careful, cause no damage and, if warrantly service is need, don't mention that you have been inside and restore the hardware to the supplied condition before sending the computer for repair.

This photo of the bottom of the S70: http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_Satellite_S70_B_Unterseite_231f91a37c.jpg shows some accessible screws which are probably the key to getting the base off but it may be necessary to prise apart the joints around the edges. The HDD model number in the notebookcheck review indicates a standard 2.5" HDD.

John

 

So, it looks like the RAM and hard drive are replaceable on that model, although whether it is replaceable while keeping the warranty is another question. I believe by "cross-tip screw" they mean Phillips-head, as that is what it appears to be in the pictures. It's unfortunate that it requires so many screws to replace just the RAM and HDD, but it's just as unfortunate that indeed, that's better than a fair number of models these days.

In general, business models tend to do better than consumer models in upgradeability. Consumer models sometimes focus so much on thinness that they sacrifice upgradeability of RAM to shave off a millimeter, or use an unusual hard drive form factor that makes it tough to upgrade. Some companies also intentionally limit upgradeability due to fears of consumers messing up something internally (i.e. Apple with the latest Mac Mini), which IMO is the wrong path. Business models tend to be more practical and less focused on being as thin as possible, and tend to have replaceable RAM, HDD, and battery, at the very least. There are some benefits to IT department standards, one of which being they'd rather spend $100 and 30 minutes of labor to swap out a bad RAM stick than $1000 and a day transferring data on a brand new laptop.

The S70 appears to be in-between - not as user-friendly as most laptops were 5 years ago, but not as hostile as some competing models, allowing upgrades if you're willing to put up with a multitude of screws.

 

OP, have you considered the Dell Inspiron 17 7737? It has a GT750M option I believe along with a ULV CPU and HDD's are easily replaceable...

 

Its a lot less complicated and less expensive to glue/solder something together than to make it modular. Manufacturers save money using this route, and hopefully pass that savings on to the consumer. If you want something more user upgradable, you'll have to move up to a higher grade laptop.

Even so, there's still a lot of room for improvement. For example, it still require major surgery just to change the display. Something that requires only a few second with a desktop. That could possibly be remedied by the adaption of adding a few screws to the panel and a groove to slide the new screen into.

Since we're already paying nearly twice as much for mobility, the least we could hope for is to keep it from going obsolete before the break even point on our investment. I sincerely hope the next generation of laptops address this more. Especially since that's one of the few options that would entice me to upgrade to the next system.

 

I think business models are often easier to service too because businesses are more likely to buy the extended warranty, so Dell wants things to be easier for their all too often useless techs. I do like how their towers usually can be dismantled and serviced without even a screwdriver.


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Its now time to bring more of that practicality to their laptop division.

 

The main issue I can see is having mechanisms that are small and solid enough for this. It may be a problem in a laptop. I agree, it would be nice to see something like how their higher end Precision desktops work. Swapping components is rather painless, but at the price of some proprietary design choices like the PSU.

 

Some S70 models(S70-A-...) have service cover for HDD and RAM.
Review Toshiba Satellite S70-A-10F Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

 

Remember the time when the amount of storage you bought was all you could ever have? Today we flip a switch and it pops out and we pop in a new one. The idea is already here. But instead many manufactures are taking a step backwards by removing things like the express card slot when they should be exploiting it. Sure we can glue together a computer to make it paper thin and light. But that's not what I want.

Instead, adding more of these slots and cartridges where we drop in the component should be the way of the future. Its a way to get a better return on our investment, before it becomes obsolete. We just need to expand these good ideas to adopt the other major components, and to the next level.

 

Krane, I agree 100% and where I can, I always buy the most upgradeable notebook I can.

However, put yourself in the shoes of any manufacturer, with shareholders and a few thousand to a few hundred thousand employees to keep busy...

You'd be gluing everything you could get away with too.

 

Oh, I'm all for upgradeability, what I'm saying is that we may end up being stuck with good old screws for some components due to mechanical resistance constraints.

 

That appears to be a European model. The only S70 models the store is showing me here in the US are S70-Bxxxxx.

 

Non-upgradeable/replaceable storage is a fairly serious issue.

If the computer needs to be shipped for service, even for reasons unrelated to the condition of the HD, the HD, and everything that's on it, gets shipped along with the rest of it. You could of course copy it all off to backup, and wipe the non-OS part of the drive. It's hard to see anything good in that scenario.

If the hard drive itself fails, your SOL.

If you need more storage, you have two choices: get an external drive to hang off the side, reducing system portability, increasing system size and weight, and tying up a USB port; or treat yourself to a new computer, effectively raising the price of storage to that of a new machine.

Non-removable storage violates the user's controlling relationship to and controlling interest in their data, setting up situations where whatever is on your computer is there to be seen at the whim of a service tech, perhaps wiped altogether.

Seems like a small thing. It's not.

And the rationale for this is what? Cost reduction? How much per unit, over all manufacturing? $1.00? $10.00? $100.00? Per unit? Then they should pass the cost on to the consumer, cos I doubt they're passing any savings on.

Thinner and lighter devices? There are limitations on how much you can shrink devices you use with your hands.

 

Want easily serviced and upgradable, simple. Buy Business Class laptops only. I do, even for my personal laptops. Also, they last longer than your consumer laptops made today. Instead of 2-3 year average lifespan, 4-6 years is often doable easily. I'd rather have a durable, well built laptop on the chunky side than a thin and frail machine all day long.

 

Very few if any current notebooks use a non-replaceable primary storage device although some use soldered RAM.

The specs I can find indicate that theToshiba S70 is shipped with a hard drive. Has anyone come across a soldered HDD that can't be replaced?

So I reiterate the point I made previously: There is a big difference between what the manufacturer says can be done by the user and what that user can do if willing and able to use a few basic tools. I'm 99.9% sure that the Toshiba S70 has a replaceable storage device.

John

 

Here's a chat transcript with a Toshiba online sales rep, from the other day. I changed her name to Rep. Also, in chat, I meant to say "higher end" when referring to the s70. I realize that even at $1000+, it's still just mid level. Though I'd guess it's towards the higher end in terms of what in fact gets sold.

info: Thank you for choosing Toshiba Direct. An operator will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with a Toshiba Direct operator. Please tell us about your Chat experience at the end of the conversation.
Rep: Thank you for choosing Toshiba Direct! My name is Rep and I'll be your sales specialist for today. How may I help you?
You: Hi. I would like to know if the memory on the S70-BBT2N23 Laptop is user upgradeable.
Rep: Hello there!
Rep: Thanks for asking.
Rep: Let us check.
Rep: One moment please.
You: thanks
Rep: You're most welcome! Thank you very much for checking here in Chat Sales also.
Rep: Upon checking, the memory and hard drive are not user-upgradeable I suggest to upgrade upon customization.
Rep: You can also find your nearest Toshiba authorized service provider by clicking here for assistance in upgrading the memory and hard drive of your laptop.
You: would a service center be able to add menmory after it was purchased?
Rep: Yes, they can upgrade the RAM and hard drive on the laptop.
You: can the hard drive be upgraded or changed by the user?
Rep: I am afraid, not. I am sorry for the confusion.
You: are you actually saying that the S70 provides no way for the owner of the computer to change hard drives?
Rep: Yes, that is correct.
You: all I can say to that is wow.
Rep: I understand. I am very sorry.
Rep: I am only showing a 6-cell battery you can replace.
You: I'm almost tempted to ask you to confirm that the drive can't be replaced, becuase that is very unusual in a higher end laptop. but if that's the way it is, I guess i have to accept that.
You: i meant to say, i was tempted to ask you to confirm that *again*
You: thank you for your help
Rep: I appreciate your feedback. Rest assured this will reach our management as well.
Rep: One moment please.
You: ok
Rep: Thank you.
Rep: Please click here to view Toshiba Tecra A50-ASMBN22 Laptop.
Rep: Hope our premium Tecra A50 will also work for you.
Rep: The battery, RAM, and hard drive are all user-accessible you can replace.
Rep: The laptop is powered by an Intel Core i3 latest 4th generation Haswell processor giving you a fast and efficient computer experience, 6GB memory so you can have a lot of applications pulled up at once without compromising the speed of your laptop and 500GB hard drive capacity to store all the files that you want.
Rep: That is also a customizable laptop you can still upgrade according to your specs. Please see your options under Customize tab.
You: hmm ok i will look at that. I liked the s70n quite a lot, and could have lived with the non upgradeable ram, but the disk drive is something else.
Rep: Yes, please.
Rep: I understand. I am really sorry.
You: i am looking for i7, preferable a 4700 or 4710
Rep: Okay.
Rep: One moment please.
You: I see in the spec sheet that the mem on the s70 isn't upgradeable, but I don't see that it says the smae about the storage.
Rep: Memory and hard drive goes the same. Thanks for asking.
You: ok well thank you
Rep: You're most welcome! Thank you very much for checking here in Chat Sales also.
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to [email address] at the end of your chat.
Rep: I found another Tecra, Toshiba Tecra W50-ABT1500 Workstation with an Intel® Core™ i7-4810MQ Processor and 2GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® Quadro® K2100M graphics for a list price of $1899.99. Same user-accessible on battery, hard drive, and RAM.
Rep: Please click here to view Toshiba Tecra W50-ABT1500 Workstation.
Rep: You may see this laptop for reference.
Rep: The laptop is powered by an Intel Core i7 latest 4th generation Haswell processor giving you a fast and efficient computer experience, 8GB memory so you can have a lot of applications pulled up at once without compromising the speed of your laptop and 500GB hard drive capacity to store all the files that you want.
Rep: That is also a customizable laptop you can still upgrade according to your specs. Please see your options under Customize tab.
Rep: Thank you very much for checking here in Chat Sales.
Rep: Is there anything else I can help you with?
Rep: I have not heard from you for a few moments. Are you still with me?
Rep: Sorry we were not able to continue our chat. Since I have not heard from you for some time, I am going to close this chat. If you need any help in the future, please do not hesitate to chat with us again.

That's not an unreasonable perspective. But when they say it can't be done, then it's either absolutely true, or it's practically true, in that it requires dismantling the thing, doing the switch (does the buried HD still use the conventional SATA sockets? Is it possible to even buy a HD that would fit and connect?), and then putting it back together.

You don't need to be afraid of computers or screwdrivers to find needing to do major invasive surgery to be an excessive requirement for replacing a hard drive, especially without any obvious payoff. It's not at all clear what is actually gained by non-upgradeablity, other than minor cost cutting, and accelerated obsolescence.

The whole laptop scene is starting to feel like a big dumbed-down middle finger to the user.

 

Please. The hard drive on the S70 is replaceable. I have had a couple of such "impossible to replace the HD" laptops before. They all use regular old hard drives. The only difference is they don't want you to completely take the laptop apart yourself, which you have to do to get at the hard drive.

 

Yeah how do you solder a freakin' hard disk? I mean, SSDs I can understand because of the NAND flash chips, but hard disks?!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I've seen, all laptops that use hard drives are user-replaceable(i.e. non-soldered), though with varying levels of dismantling. The only instances in which they are not is when they use non-standard proprietary SSDs soldered to the motherboard(and this means that if the drive dies you have no choice but to pay extra for the vendor to fix/replace it), and even in these cases I find it's made abundantly clear either on the product page or on third party reviews(and I'd probably want to read a few reviews about a laptop before sinking any significant funds into it).

 

If a service center can upgrade the RAM and hard drive then it means that they are upgradable and not fixed (glued / soldered). The issue is that there is a dozen or so screws to remove and possibly some unclipping of plastic joints in order to get to those parts plus removal of the whole base exposes the system to accidental damage. Hence, in the opinion of the manufacturer this cannot be done by the user.

Some notebooks provide separate access covers for the HDD and RAM and the manufacturer may therefore consider these to be user upgradable. The disadvantage of making these separate covers is that it reduces the ability to use the base as a structural component to help stiffen the computer. The S70 reminds me of my Toshiba R500 which has a single-piece base held in place by 19 screws (it also has a removable battery). The computer feels much more rigid when the base is screwed in place.

So, if the S70 ticks all the right boxes other than the "not user upgradable" issue then get it plus some good screwdrivers and a spudger.

John

 

Thanks. All of that makes sense, particularly wrt the structural integrity of the device being improved sans panels. I've built 3 desktops and can't count the number of times I've added, replaced, and swapped out drives, added memory, and replaced fans. So I'm not concerned at that level. However, laptops are more tightly constructed, the more so the thinner they get. All the lappies I've owned (Toshiba, HP, Dell, Sony) have had access panels for memory and drives. (Another Tosh I had been considering, the P75-A7200, just a year old, actually has a second HD bay and two free slots in addition to the 8Gb it already comes with. I would buy it but it lacks touch.)

If I knew for sure that replacing the drive was as simple as unscrewing x number of screws, lifting off the bottom, seeing the drive just lying there, then popping it out and popping in another, I'd be less cautious. But I don't, in fact, know that.

If a mfg has decided to explicitly present some laptops as not user expandable, making a point that SOME of the models from some their lines CAN be user upgraded -- they then have considerable leeway as to how they stuff the guts inside the body, since they have freed themselves of the constraints of easy user accessibility. And that is what's behind my concern and my questions. Maybe I'm over thinking this. At the end of the day, though I am comfortable poking around inside these things, I am not a technician, and there's a level of disassembly I'll rather stay clear of. Especially when I know the necessity for it is in fact not necessary at all, but just a design decision to save some pennies per unit, and to compete in the thinness wars.

The fact that the (claimed) inability of the user to expand RAM is increasingly common and specified as such on product and spec sheets, BUT that I can find no written mention anywhere of non-replaceable storage, AND the fact that upon hearing of this (even on this thread) the initial reaction is incredulity, AND the fact that the only mention of it came through a sales chat (though she did seem quite definite about it, like she was getting it from an official line), AND the fact that the bottom even has conventional phillips screws in it (an assumption based on seeing other comparable Toshiba models)... well then all of that leads to me think that I could probably replace it myself WITHOUT any additional digging. But again, I don't in fact know that. And when we're talking about a $1200 machine that I will instantly become dependent on, and that I'm buying for professional purposes, it becomes more of a leap of faith.

I've looked for service manuals for the S70-BBT2N23, but those I've found were either not for this particular model (the S70-A line appears to be targeted at the EU and has somewhat different specs) or do not mention bottom removal.

The thing is, other than expandability, this model of the S70 line does indeed tick all my boxes, which are quite specific and, based on the research I've done, not easy to find in a single unit. So I may have to take that leap of faith, and risk having to pay return postage if I'm not completely in love with the thing within the stingy 15-day return window. (Thus another mfg refurb is born.)

Thanks again for the replies.

PS. I had no idea what a spudger was. Looking it up, it suggests there could be some prying involved, which suggests the possibility of user-inflicted dings, cracks, etc.

 

I expect you've also taken the back off a few phones in which case you know how plastic parts clip together. Some notebooks have a similar arrangement around the edges but the plastic is a bit stiffer and needs something stronger than a thumbnail. The starting place on a notebook is usually one of the front corners. Or maybe the base is just held on by the screws without any clips around the edges.

There is also the aspect that many notebook manufacturers (like the car makers) offer a base model at a price that attracts customers and then charge a lot more than the incremental cost of parts for providing the better specs. Encouraging user upgrades wouldn't help the business model.

John

 

Indeed. In as much as the RAM is (officially) not user expandable, it pushes towards buying more from mfg at the time of purchase, for roughly $100 USD for each 4Gb. It's kind of like, speak now, or forever hold your peace.

As it is, the deal they were offering when I first configured it, and which expired on the 8th, was extended another week, with the difference that the "included" HD is no longer a 1.0TB (5400rpm); Hybrid 8G Serial ATA hard disk drive, but just a plain 1TB 5400. They want an additional $40 for the hybrid.

To be honest, I'm not sure how big a difference 8Gb SSD will actually make. I'm less concerned with boot times, or even application load times, than overall speed under heavy multitasking, including streaming multi-track audio in a DAW, where as I understand it, RAM is the key thing. I've got WD 7200 rpm WD Black drives in my other lappies, which I do not use for heavy audio as I likely will with whatever I get now.

But this is why non-expandablity is such an issue. If you buy too little RAM, or too slow or too little storage, you can upgrade, and use those components elsewhere. Not so here, where the mfg's business model directly impacts the user's usage model, encouraging the user to think of the device as disposable, in effect easing the laptop market towards a phone-like service subscription model.

What's especially p***ing is that I'm willing to spend the money, within reason, for what I want, but I can't find it. Some cheaper models come closer on some counts than the more expensive ones, while some of the expensive ones, approaching $2000 feature some ill-conceived design factors that, for me at least, break the deal, eg., I will not buy or even consider models where the Menu key (between the RCtrl and RAlt keys, which I know some people never touch) has been amputated, which are found all along the price spectrum. The Tosh S70 really does tick all my boxes, right down to a preference for having the Fn keys laid out in 3 groups of 4, and a wider split between the numpad and the qwerty.

Picky, yeah.

 

I think you can add to this the need for special design specific tool. As I recall from my stint in the military, certain manufactures would have to create parts specific tools for their designs.

Not only would the government have to pay for the device, but equally as much for the tools to be able to work on it. You may have the know how, but without those unique tools, you're never going to get the box open. Not without damaging it anyway. A diabolically clever way to do business, don't you think?

What you're describing is a business model, one made popular by the auto industry, and also known as "built-in obsolescence."

Just be glad they haven't yet adopted the "package" model as well. Where you can only get a specific upgrade item if its bundled with two or three more that you may or may not want or need.

 

Most likely the price will come down again after Christmas by more than it has now gone up. And with CES in early January drawing attention to the next generation of notebooks the price of the current ones is likely to drop a bit more.

If I was buying this notebook I would go for the cheapest HDD because it would be quickly replaced by an SSD.

John

 

That's what I'm thinking.

Yup. And that's why I'm being cautious (maybe overly) about the upgradeability. I'm bound to want a faster drive in there. SSDs aren't tempting me, yet, from a value pov. But that will change.

I've found this thread from last April, at the Toshiba forum, from someone with the same questions I've been having. They found it was easy enough getting the bottom off a model from (it seems) around the same time as the S70. The drive and RAM were right on top, where you'd expect to find them after opening an access panel.

Satellite E55-A5114 How to remove rear cover? - TOSHIBA FORUMS

 

They're still going to design for ease of assembly (second to whatever space constraints they have). Don't forget they need to be able to get in there without too much trouble too.


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Right.The idea that the only HD in the thing could not be swapped out took me by surprise. I'd never encountered it before (and again, other up-thread posts express a similar disbelief.) It's the kind of thing I'd expect to find in a Chromebook. It just seemed wrong on so many levels, including a business case. It still does.

Now that the initial shock has worn off, and visions of soldered-in hard drives have dissipated, it doesn't seem any less stupid, but it's a stupid I can factor into my decisions.

I have number of criteria that together make it difficult to find a device with the right config. The S70 comes surprisingly close. And I've really enjoyed the Toshiba I've been using since Windows 7 came out, except for how the '7' key is hit or miss, and it's feeling old. (A fresh reinstall and a new fan would do wonders for it.) Having found the S70, and coming so close to saying I do, it was bumming to learn that it was designed by shortsighted idiots, with no understanding of who pays over $800 for a laptop..

 

I think you are making way too much about the fact that it takes a just a couple more screws to reach the HD than in a normal laptop. How often do you plan on swapping out the main hard drive? Are you so busy that you can't set aside half an hour of your time to actually do it, even though you have been freaking out about it for days? You said you have built desktops before. This isn't any different at all, just the parts are a bit smaller. If you feel that the laptop suits you so well, get it. There not being a hard drive access panel is a relatively trivial detail that will only slightly inconvenience you maybe only a single time during your entire ownership of the laptop.

 

Thank you.

I am not "freaking out" over anything (which in any case is my prerogative.) I had a surprised and disappointed reaction to what I consider a stupid decision. I did not know how literally to take the repeated assurances by Toshiba reps that the RAM and HD were not user replaceable, and I had no idea what the inside layout would be, or how deep I'd have to go (not that there's much depth in these things), and what I'd find when I got there. I have now determined, more or less, that it should be possible to get inside easily enough, but still nowhere as easy as with a bottom panel. The fact that the laptop is "a bit smaller" (if you can call orders of magnitude a bit) than a desktop doesn't make the difference trivial, but rather makes it significant given how tightly packed it is.

How busy I am is beside the point, because even if I had time to waste, I can think of better ways of doing so than breaking into a machine in order to do a basic thing made intentionally difficult to no apparent benefit but definite inconvenience to me. The fact that it turns out to be easier than I imagined doesn't change that.

 

Suggestion, you like Toshiba laptops. How about seeing if a Toshiba Portege or a Toshiba Tecra would excite you. Both being business class machines they should be very easily upgraded, be durable, and reliable. Both would be a quite a step up from the Satellite line in every meaningful way.

 

The Portege line only goes up to 13.3". The Tecras up to 15.6". If I'm not mistaken, both lines top out with the Core i5, and none have touchscreen.

I want a 17.3" Core i7 with touchscreen. That shifts me away from business lines towards gaming and power-consumer models. Other than the more difficult upgradeability, that's alright with me, as what I end up with will be used mostly at home, just not on the desk, or in one room.

I've been happy with my Toshiba Satellite from a few years ago, which is what any preference I have towards Toshiba has been based on. Having just spent some time setting up and playing with a new Satellite 15.6" Core i3 touchscreen for someone else, nice as it is, I'm somewhat less impressed, re: build and sturdyness. But it's lower down the line, so it's hard to know just what lessons I can take from that. Lots of unnecessary apps (some of them just spam in disguise) littering the space.

I imagine that only a retail version of Window 8.1 could remedy that, though maybe not.

 

Then you are pretty well stuck with gaming machines or workstations. And consumer/gaming today too often is a synonym for harder to upgrade and less durable. 17" in a quality machine made your way won't happen in Toshiba. More apt to find Gaming or Workstation class examples of that screen size, and no touchscreens. I'd say in a 17" gamer that a Clevo based laptop would be the best available and usually upgrade friendly. But somewhat of a brick. And Clevo does make fine laptops.

 

I think hardware can fail every now and then. Some people are lucky enough to not have a single problem for years, but some people have to RMA their products 3 times in a row. I think my preference towards any brand would be judged by service. Dell's Alienware division (maybe even other divisions divisions) have a pretty nice in house service. They do give you a buffed out laptop if the problem persists after 3 services. If you want maximum upgradability, I'd go for dell/alienware. I have a m18x r2 with a 660m which I got for 1560$ + tax during winter sales in '12. I can upgrade it to a single 980m with 1000$ (It beats a desktop 680, and is almost at par with a desktop 780).

If this has to be a business laptop, and will sit in board rooms, I'd recommend a clevo ( pretty simple design, but its huge! ) if you want a 1000$ option also look at the y50. It's pretty nice for its price( 4k, i7, 8gb ram). Dunno how upgradable it is tho.

 

I wouldn't suggest Alienware... They're very tempermental.. Clevo is the best bet IMO and hell even the super thing P650SG can hold 2 7mm HDD... The P670SE/SG is the corresponding 17" version...

 

Alienware support is still better however than most gaming laptop manufacturers. However, Clevo makes great laptops which do what she needs. XoticPC is a great reseller who will treat her right and gives good support. I don't get the Toshiba fanboyisms though. But I do respect the Portege and Tecra lines. They are solid. But I don't need 17" screens either. And Toshiba Business Class are like Dell and HP Business Class are. Far superior than what is offered to consumer buyers.

 

"Many manufacturers don't want users to dismantle their products because of the risk of damage. However, many users undertake their own upgrades."
Whoever wrote the above statement is either seriously out of touch with reality, or works for a laptop manufacturer. I own a Lenovo Edge 530, whose instruction manual lists which up-grades are user sanctioned, and as such, owners are discouraged from sending them to a lenovo repair facility because they are already overwhelmed by workload. Hard-Drive and RAM up-grades are among these owner sanctioned up-grades, as are the up-grading of wireless cards, and installing a secondary SSD in the WWAN slot.
Now however, it appears that Laptop Manufacturers have gotten together and decided to prevent a user from upgrading their machines so they can make more money. Should a user become dissatisfied with their unit's speed or channel access, well, they're just out of luck unless, of course, they buy a whole new computer. Personally, I won't buy another laptop from a manufacturer who engages in this practice, and if they all engage in such low-ball tactics, I'll just move to building my own desktop. This practice is the same as price-fixing, and involves collusion between competitors, which is, in fact illegal. I'm sure someone will eventually get angry enough to file lawsuits against such practice.

 

Welcome to the forum!

I believe that you are confused about certain Lenovo's practices when it comes to upgrades.

Hard drive and RAM *are* user upgradeable with no consequences.

WLAN and WWAN cards are "whitelisted" and hence not upgradeable without applying a modded BIOS, which is an action that voids warranty in the first place.

Installing a secondary SSD in a WWAN slot is a gray area. Definitely not an upgrade approved by Lenovo.

 

I am quite sorry to inform you that Wireless Cards, though Whitelisted, are completely upgradeable and sanctioned for the user. "Whitelisting" components has nothing to do with who can or can't replace it; it simply limits which components are available to the owner. I know this because I had one hell of a time upgrading to a dual channel adapter. The Broadcom Card was not even listed in the parts manual. The SSD replacement may indeed be a gray area, but you should check your resources regarding WLAN cards.......

 

I don't think that you quite understand what I wrote...so I'll present the essence in a different manner:

Some wireless cards are "swappable". This procedure entails replacing one Lenovo-issued (and hence whitelist-conforming) card with another, such as going from Realtek to Intel.

Upgrading - which would equal going from Intel bgn to Intel ac on the model that didn't initially offer the latter (let's say T410 for argument's sake) - will call for a modded BIOS - application of which IS a warranty-voiding procedure.

Are we on the same page now?

 

You have got to be kidding me. Your entire argument is based on semantics? If if is that important for you to be perceived as "right" then fine....I'll concede your point.....Wireless cards are "swappable." If you ask virtually any other consumer then I'm sure they would agree that going from a single channel wireless card to a dual channel card is most certainly, and without a doubt an "upgrade." Any improvement in functionality is technically an "upgrade" not a swap-out of hardware.....because it's functioning is definitely improved. But, we'll go with the definition in your world.....The cards are "swapable." Feel better?

 

A BIOS white list is definitely a huge impediment to upgradability. Technically, it may be possible to "upgrade" if your laptop doesn't have the best card that it was sold with, but in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't mean much. For example, if my laptop has an Intel 6100 and a BIOS whitelist, I may most likely be able to upgrade to an Intel 6300 wireless card. But I would need to find a compatible one and pay a (usually hefty) premium for it. On top of that, going from a 6100 to a 6300 isn't much of an improvement, and any better cards from Intel, Atheros, and Broadcom, which are likely cheaper than the compatible card I had to find, are unable to be used.

I don't consider having a BIOS whitelist that allows changing the wireless card to one different model that you need to pay way too much for, if you can even find one available, to seriously be considered "user upgradable."