Not Really Notebook Issue - Ancient Desktop AMD Upgrade. Question about ZIF socket Lever

Long story:

I have an aunt down in Florida who was running a 9 year old Compaq desktop, with a dog-slow, single-core AMD Sempron 3400+ CPU (2 GHz actual, w/only 128 KB of L2 cache(!), socket 939), 2 GB of DDR 400 (PC3200) RAM. This beast was running on a really nasty, crufty WIndows XP 32 bit partition that hadn't been attended to in years.

She didn't want a new computer...and doesn't see why she should have to replace it. But she said that it was really slow. And she wanted it to go fast, again. Y'know....THAT kind of user...very set in their ways.

So when I was down there last month I replaced the 2 GHz Sempron 3400 with an AMD 64 X2 4400+ CPU (yes, both CPUs are 64 bit, believe it or not!), that I got off eBay for $27 USD (CPU is 2.2 GHz, dual core, each with 1 MB full speed L2 cache), and I put in 2 GB more of PC3200 DDR 400 RAM (for 4 GB, all sockets filled, dual channel 128-bit addressing, all matched Crucial sticks w/same timings of 3-3-3-8). I wiped the 200GB 7200 RPM Seagate SATA 150 drive, and put Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 on it, all updates & latest drivers, and the thing just flies. It feels *almost* as snappy as my 2011-era laptop with an AMD Athlon II X2 P320 CPU (Win7 x64, 8 GB PC3-10600)

Okay, now - only problem is: when I installed the "new" AMD 4400 dually, I couldn't get the ZIF lever on the 939 socket to snap down and lock the CPU in place. The lever is all the way down as far as it will go, but it won't snap under the little plastic catch at the base of the 939 socket. The CPU is oriented fine in the socket - it sits down nice and flat and flush in there - it dropped right in. But the lever just wouldn't lock home and snap. I'd have to use brute force to do it, and the poor, 9 year old AsusTek board was making nasty creaking & flexing noises as I tried.

As I say, the lever is all the way down, but just not snapped into the catch. So I just let it hang there, kind of "out in the breeze", but all the way down.

The big fan / aluminum 939 CPU cooler assembly sits taut & flush over the top of the CPU (has the mounting bracket with the metal catches that capture the plastic lugs on either side of the socket base. I used a flat blade screwdriver to push the metal catches down on either side), and the cam'ed lever swung around and locked the cooler down onto the CPU nice & tight. That worked out just fine. Also, I scrubbed all thermal surfaces with isopropyl alcohol & I applied Arctic Silver 5 to the CPU heat spreader.

It's been a month, and my aunt has been using it all that time, is extremely pleased with the results (and so am I).

My question is: will that do it? Or is this system headed for trouble down the road, with that lever kinda hanging out there? It can't swing back up very high, if it has to; the heavy plastic frame of the heat sink bracket is only like 5 mm above it.

Any feedback would be most welcome!



Here are the Geekbench 2 and 3 scores with my AMD X2 4400+ upgrade:

GB 2: Compaq Presario 061 EL433AA-ABA SR1717CL NA610 - Geekbench Browser

GB 3: Compaq Presario 061 EL433AA-ABA SR1717CL NA610 - Geekbench Browser


Here's the GB2 "before" score, with the horrid 3400+ Sempron:

Compaq Presario 061 EL433AA-ABA SR1717CL NA610 - Geekbench Browser


(Didn't run the multicore GB3 benchmark against the Sempron CPU, as it's single core).

Also, CPU-Z reports the actual clock speed of the X2 4400+ CPU as only 2.19 GHz (as opposed to the rated 2.2 GHz), and it reports the HyperTransport speed as only 998 MHz (instead of 1000 MHz). HWINFO64 also reports the PC3200 DDR 400 memory as "DDR 398". Could this be a result of the ZIF lever not totally locking the CPU pins tight against their contact points? (CPU-Z also reported the 2.0 GHz Sempron clock speed as .01 GHz low as well, @ 1.99 GHz, long before I did this upgrade.)

(btw, a couple more things: before I removed the old CPU, I ran the system for about 20 minutes first, to get the heat sink nice & warm...then I had no problem breaking the thermal interface seal between the CPU & heat sink, by gently twisting the heat sink back & forth after unhitching it. Then i scrubbed all the gunky old OEM paste off the heat sink, and I spread Arctic Silver 5 nice and evenly over the top of the new CPU lid/heat spreader. Also, I checked all the electrolytic caps on the 9+ year old system board...none of them were swollen or bulged-looking...all nice & tight...I presume they're all decent quality, metal foil-based caps - yay, HP-Asus!)

(one more "btw" - I can install & run Windows 8 64-bit on this beast just fine...but not Windows 8.1 x64 or Windows 10 x64, since they both require the CMPXCHG16B compareexchange128 CPU instruction - something about hardware virtualization security - and the 939-flavor of the Athlon X2's don't have it. The AM2 socket variants do. I *could* install the 32-bit versions of 8.1/10, but meh...)

 

I'm not sure about the ZIF socket lever, as I am not familiar with that socket, so I can't comment on whether it's likely to be an issue. But the 2.19 GHz speed thing is perfectly normal. The HyperTransport (or in up-until-recent Intel CPUs and even older AMD ones, Front Side Bus) rarely runs at exactly the speed on the box, and being a few megahertz slow is common. My Core 2 Duo T7500 nearly always runs at 2.19 GHz instead of 2.20 GHz, too. That has no connection with the lever.

Overall that's pretty good for a 9-year-old desktop. It's amazing how older technology really is sufficient for everyday computing still, and that upgrade is pretty significant, especially on the CPU front. I'm also impressed that it had 2 GB of RAM to start with, and 4 will indeed help, especially with the switch to 64-bit Windows. I do agree that since 8.1 x64 would require a newer CPU instruction, it makes as much sense to go with Win7 x64 as it would Win 8.1 x86. It's kind of a wash since you'd lose some RAM with 32-bit, but it also uses less. But Windows 7 isn't going away anytime soon, is an easier transition from XP, and if the machine is still in use when Windows 7 is retired, you can cross that bridge then.

 

From what you said, everything seems to be working perfectly fine as it should and you have nothing to worry about at all. It is common for clock speeds to be slightly away from their spec. The lever not being locked down is clearly not causing any problems. Good job with the upgrade. It sounds like you did a great job! :thumbsup:

 

You didn't hook your aunt up with a ssd? Tsk tsk.

 

Thanks for the quick reply, Apollo13 -

Yeah, it's more than sufficient for everyday computing today. The almost 10 year old Asus mobo (A8AE-LE) even has a PCIe x16 (1.0) slot...so that would be the next upgrade to consider. I neglected to mention in my quite lengthy & verbose post that I replaced the ancient 250W Bistec ATX PSU with a brand new Logisys 480W ATX PSU (w/ 20+4 hookup..I left the 4-pin connector off - will install it if I add a PCIe vid card). Plenty of ATI Radeon 3XXX, 4XXX & 5450 PCIe x16 cards out there on NewEgg & eBay (or even an nVidia GT 8400). My dear aunty really isn't interested in throwing any more money at it - she's always thrifty, even though she's a millionaire several times over - and really doesn't want to be bored with the intricacies of PC video subsystems.

Thanks again!

-Trev

 

Thanks, Qing Dao - you people are the reason I love this site so much. You all are right up on top of things... even though my question was way off the mainstream of this blogsite's symposium ("notebooks"!), you jump right on it.

The AMD forum site was shut down back in 2012 (heartbreaking - even if I'm more of an intel fanboi - since I still have a rich & abundant history with AMD arcana).

- Trev

 

pukemon - I am your chastened and humble servant!

SSD - hmm...there's a thought. The 10 year old Asus board (A8AE-LE / "Amerbine-M") has only SATA 150 connectors...but 3 free PCIe slots...and right now I found this on NewEgg:

StarTech.com 2 Port PCI Express SATA-III 6 Gbps eSATA Controller Card - Dual Port PCIe SATA III Card - 2 Internal/2 External Card PEXESAT322I $33.99

I could put a 512 GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD in this badboy...along with an ATI Radeon 5450 PCIe x16 vid card...but we're looking at around $250 for all of this.

Putting lipstick, rouge and mascara on a very elderly pig. But who knows...my aunt is quite eccentric, and might enjoy this.

I also might do these upgrades, by the way. [guffaw]

- Trev

 

i was just messing with you. but an ssd would probably make her think she really got the latest and greatest computer. and she probably doesn't need a video card. something low end would be good but i'm sure you know that.

 

I have read the thread here and have to mention that this platform is surpassed in all ways by a $250 (on sale) T100TA.

I know how stubborn your aunt is, but when I'm dealing with clients like that I simply let them borrow a modern system and they are usually floored by the silence, the low power, the responsiveness and general performance and ultimately the reasonable price of a new system. Most times, I don't have to take back that 'test' system - and even if they didn't buy it, the next person will.

My point? Sometimes we have to educate our public. And for some, that sometimes means forcing them into the current decade - by dropping a modern platform in front of them and telling them they can't use their old system until it is diagnosed further.

And all this at usually the same price but a whole lot of respect - especially from the more 'stubborn' ones.

 

hi tillerofthearth -

Oh, no doubt - Asus T100TA Transformer Book, very cool solution - lowest price I see for this is $347. Sweet deal.

But did I mention that my 75 year old aunt is *stubborn*? As in: seriously.

She's stuck on the very lines of this Compaq full tower system - the very aesthetics of it - like it's a dear, garaged, pampered old 1955 Chrysler Imperial, or something....

I could plunk down a 2015 Asus ROG G751JY-DH71 Rev.2 17" notebook in front of her, spend a few hours with her on it, make it read her mind and give her full 4D immersion, and she'd be all like, "meh...that's very nice, dear, but it's just not the same...."

thanks again for the tip!

- Trev

 

Might want to check again. It has half the RAM, it has a tiny and slow SSD, and the Atom Z3740 processor is slightly less powerful than the Athlon X2 4400+. That Asus only really has a better GPU going for it, but any bottom of the barrel discrete card from the last few generations will outclass that Atom's IGP.

 

The RAM, okay you got me (capacity only). But I'm seeing Z3775 T100TA's here and that's about a 16% increase in performance over the Athlon X2. Sure, the eMMC SSD is slow (for an SSD), but it is plenty zippy vs. a HDD in a decade old platform .

And don't forget the over 16 times improvement in efficiency along the way either.

Just saying that cost-wise, upgrading isn't the best bang for the buck. And I'd be tempted to trade in my 75 year old aunt/client for a new model rather than suffer rebuilding tech from 2008 - even if it meant getting ~2.5 times higher performance from the cpu upgrade.

 

she didn't want "the best bang for the buck". She wanted to keep her old Compaq case, 17" HP LCD screen, HP keybd & mouse. It's all very strange.

I suppose I could have gone all out and gotten her a new ATX motherboard, new i7 Broadwell CPU, DDR3 memory, etc., etc...for about $500 -

She didn't want all that, either.

 

lol. don't listen to them. i try to upsell for some of my non tech savvy friends and acquaintances and they just want to keep what they have. some it's the money, the attachment or the insecurity of getting something they're not familiar with. i can understand that. so usually it's a ram upgrade at best.

 

Don't get me wrong, I was just stating my biases and understood your position (and your aunt's) perfectly.

But, now that you say this ("wanted to keep her old Compaq case") - you should have upgraded to anything current for the same/less money and simply used all the exterior trappings she is accustomed to (case, keyboard/mouse, monitor). The performance would be leaps over what she is used to, the time to build it would have been halved or less for you and the money - well, she can't take it with her.

 

A PCI-Express SSD in a system like this is an interesting idea. I don't know if it would work in practice - it might need support in the BIOS that isn't there - but if it did, a PCI-Express 1.0 x16 lane would give 4 Gbps of bandwidth - enough for any SSD even today. I wouldn't necessarily try it on someone else's system, but if I had an old system and a PCI-Express SSD laying around, it's something I'd probably try on an uneventful weekend or evening.

By the AMD forum do you mean PlanetAMD64? I remember that site somewhat, though I was only ever a lurker there, but it did indeed get hacked 2-3 years ago. From what I recall it was a pretty good resource.

I can definitely identify with becoming attached to old standbys. It's part of the reason I still use my 2007 laptop as much as the much more powerful 2010 one I acquired last month - the 2007 is my old workhorse, and as the first computer that was solely mine, I can't get rid of it. There's wrong with it, though.

Is there a need for a newer graphics card? I'd imagine it'd be just fine for DVDs, as well as at least standard-def, probably 720p, video streaming. It sounds like whatever it's got is probably good enough if she's so happy.

 

I think you did a pretty good upgrade for her given the circumstances of her not wanting a new computer.

Personally (and partially for my own amusement), I'd have been tempted to fit a new motherboard with an Intel Core i3/i5 CPU, 16GB of RAM and an SSD and told her nothing about it.

Again though - nice work on this.

 

Hi Charles -

The thought had crossed my mind - but, unfortunately it's a highly proprietary HP-Compaq case....I'd probably have to break out the ol' dremel tool and start cutting away aluminum to get the backplane of any new ATX board to fit. The thought of, say, an i7-3770K Ivy Bridge in there boggles the mind (to say nothing of a high-end Broadwell i7).

THanks for your reply!

-Trev

 

Your post made me read your signature - does that desktop really have a 2GB hard drive? (j/k)

 

Trevayne10, I'd drop in an SSD (or at least SSHD if money is a problem) as a gift and call it a day. Conventional HDD... meh, it's pain to boot from.