Notebook Battery Guide

Thanks for bringing that up. It reminded me of another point that should be made about leaving your notebook in your car. It is also a bad idea to freeze your battery, so if it's really cold outside there is the possibility of damage to the battery--let alone the screen as Iceman0124 just pointed out.

 

Hi Chrisyano great article for first time owners of notebooks like me!

I just recently got the notebook. Been using it for many hours in a day mostly at home at the moment. I'll be using the battery and notebook away from a power source more often soon. Right now I have the battery plugged in, then unplug it when it reaches 100% to discharge it down to 10-20%. Just wanna do this a few times cos its new. Now, if I'm using the AC adapter while the battery plugged in, how many charge cycles do i lose? Is it a minimal amount that i shouldn't even worry about? About when should I expect to buy a new battery? A year from now, 2?

 

You will lose some charge cycles by allowing the system to trickle charge if you're powered by AC power and leaving the battery in. I personally prefer the convenience of having the battery there all the time as a backup and will forgo a few cycles for that convenience. Your battery could last anywhere between 1-3 years. It could even last longer than that, depending on usage and all the other factors mentioned in the guide.

I wouldn't worry about buying a new battery until your current one's life begins to decline noticeably...and even then, I would wait until it's not satisfying your battery needs. In short, wait until you need one to get the freshest battery possible when you need it.

 

Great post, thanks for all that info.
Yet I have one more question, is it OK to remove or replace the battery in the laptop WHILE the machine is plugged-in and running? or is it better to shut down the notebook before removing/replacing its battery..?

 

It should be OK to remove the battery while the system is plugged in. Many people do it without incident.

 

i usually use my laptop on AC power, but i like that my battery had a couple hour life when i needed it. recently the battery has started running down very quickly, less than a half hour to automatic shutdown. it is an HP with a Li-Ion batter and about four years old. What's happened? is the battery just shot and should i buy another from the manufacturer? and, if i'm running on AC power should I take the battery out?

 

If you haven't already, I recommend a quick read-through of the guide at the top of this thread. It answers most of your questions.

A four-year old notebook battery would not be expected to give you much in terms of capacity. You may want to get a new one--or consider prolonged storage when you're on AC power.

 

Very nice guide to Lithium ion batteries.
One thing you could add is that higher loads degrade a bettery's lifespan quicker than low loads. eg. running heavy CAD/DB/number-crunching apps continuously while on battery power will have a deletrious effect on your Li batt compared to if you are just web-browsing or word-processing and taking full advantage of all the power-saving options.
I can't find the relevant HP faq but found this PDF instead:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/UCR/SupportManual/TPM_5982-3550enus_rev1_us/TPM_5982-3550enus_rev1_us.pdf

Also, I only buy notebooks with the multibay system. That way I can be more flexible and replace the optical drive with another battery/HDD on the occasion I need it.
It seems it would be more beneficial to battery life if the laptop was to take power from both batteries simultaneously.
Unfortunately, no laptops I have ever owned, do this. Invariably, they drain the main batt first, then the multibay batt.
Likewise, instead of charging both batts with a lower (and kinder charge), the AC adaptors charge the main batt till its full, then the secondary battery.

 

Hi, I have a battery problem with my HP Omnibook 500 laptop. The laptop powers up and works fine on AC charger. But it is not working at all on battery. I even bought a brand new battery but still the same. The battery seems to be charging but as soon as I remove the AC charges, the laptop shuts down. Please help!

 

Did you buy a generic battery? That could be the problem as some seem to fail to work altogether.

 

Ok, so this might be a stupid and anal question, but is there such a thing as a battery shell replacement or something that would cover the battery area when it does not have a battery in it? Not to get anything in to ruin or cover the connections? Would it matter?
thanks

 

If my laptop is off and I have the a/c adpter plugged in, will it be alright to have the battery in there too even though the laptop is off?

 

Chrisyano - Not sure what you mean by generic battery but I bought one from batteries.com that was supposed to be compatible with the Omnibook 500
This is the one I bought: http://www.batteries.com/productprofile.asp?appid=299736

As I said, before trying with brand new battery, the original battery had suddenly stopped working the same way (though it was old and maybe not holding any charge anymore). The point is, I'm wondering if it could be a problem in the laptop itself not able to draw power from the battery (such as some sort of circuit damage) or do you think it is most likely a battery problem. In either case, any ideas on how do I troubleshoot and what can I do?
Thanks much!

 

As far as I know, nothing like that exists. I don't think it's a viable product considering how many different notebook designs there are out there--and most people leave their batteries in all the time anyway.

That is fine. The notebook will stop charging the battery once it is fully charged. It will not charge it again until the battery self-discharges itself to a predetermined level (i.e. 95% . The only drawback is that these "trickle-charges" do use up some of the battery's limited number of charge cycles.

The battery you bought is a generic (as in non-branded battery), but it is definitely possible that there is an issue with your notebook. I'd recommend a call to the manufacturer's support line for the most effective troubleshooting.

 

Yeah I wish they have somthing for that too, cuz for now I'm at home and I'm always on the A/C plug. and to prevent the battery from losing charge cycles and stuff I take the battery out and it stays out. I'm worred out ruiningthat open space and connectons to... if you find something or think of something, do share please

 

I use my Vaio at my desk with the AC power and battery in. During the day I may move around to other stations and get off AC. I may run the battery down to only 70% before I get back to my desk/AC power. I would leave my desktop oftenn during the course of a day with my laptop and run it down to 80 frequently before going back to my desk forand back on AC.

My question is, should I let it stay on battery and run until 20% before plugging it back to AC at my desktop? Is the frequent top offs during my day killing my battery?

EDIT: Upon booting up my new Vaio on a fully charge battery without AC, it is at around 85% upon enterint Vista. Is it typical for the battery to lose 15% upon bootup??

Thanks in advance

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the way you're using/charging your battery. You may want to calibrate every month or so to keep the fuel gauge sharper though.

The run down to 20% is more for users who use their notebooks on battery power regularly, since the closer you get to an empty charge, more long-term capacity is lost than if you were to recharge at a 20% level. It's outlined in more detail in the guide above.

As far as the 85% after bootup in Vista, it could be drivers for Vista are not picking it up completely accurately. I would suspect this is the case particularly if you are still at 99% or 98% in XP after booting. Again, calibrating your battery may help here as well.

 

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your reply. When you say "calbrate" what does that mean? Does it mean to run it down and recharge? Do you mean using a specific program?

I was concerned with the way I was using the batter/charging because you mentioned "trickle charging". That's why i wonder if i'm at an AC, I should even plug it in and charge the batter at 90%, or just wait to be down to 20% each time before i use the AC.

Thanks again.

 

You want to avoid full discharges on a regular basis. This causes the battery to lose capacity permanently at a faster rate than a series of partial discharges. A single full discharge (to the point of power cutoff) will cause your battery to lose more capacity than a series of discharges to say 20% followed by recharging.

As I mentioned in my last post, I wouldn't worry too much about your usage and it is unnecessary to run your battery down to 20% every time you use the notebook on battery power.

Calibration is covered in the guide in the Care and Maintenance section. It is basically just a discharge to power cutoff followed by a full recharge.

The bottom line is that it is best not to worry about your battery. It's there for your convenience. No matter how you care for it, it will lose life and capacity anyway. So you might as well enjoy the freedom it affords you while it can. If it comes down to it, just buy a replacement whenever it no longer meets your needs.

 

I have three batteries, one new and two old as a result of the sony recall program. I had a question regarding the power gauge and calibration, since I'm using three different batteries is there any hope in having an accurate power meter? Would a third battery monitor program be better at predicting life?

Further what is the best practice in using these three batteries, using the new one most of the time and only the old ones when I need it (very rare) or to rotate them around?

 

Welcome to the forums, mataku. I feel that a battery utility that is specifically made for your notebook and battery would have the best chance of being accurate. The reasons a third-party utility might not be accurate are outlined in the guide above.

As far as how to use your batteries, I personally would use one of the older ones if you know you will be working on AC power for an extended time. You could then put the newer one into prolonged storage to try to prolong its lifespan. Keep in mind that it all three batteries will degrade regardless of whether or not they're being used though.

 

Thanks for the excellent info chrisyano. It is very informative and useful. Regarding calibration, doesn't it beat the guideline not to discharge the battery completely? A bit confused here on whether the benefit of a regular calibration (ie every month etc.) outweighs the lost cycles..
Thanks

 

The guideline is actually to avoid frequent or regular complete discharges. I believe I said something like a series of partial discharges will result in less permanent capacity loss than a single complete discharge.

The calibration is a bit of a necessary evil when looked upon in that light though. You need to do it to keep your battery's fuel gauge accurate. And there will be capacity loss regardless of what you do--all you can do is try to slow the process if it's worth it to you to do so.

I personally just enjoy the convenience and am prepared to shell out for a new battery if this one gets too weak before I'm itching for a new notebook (not likely).

 

I've read through this thread, and I can't seem to find if its OK to take out or snap in a battery while your notebook is already on through AC.

 

According to posts #54 and #55 in this thread, it would be OK to put on/take out the battery while its on AC.


chrisyano, thanks for all the helpful info. Your guide (and your answers to previous posts) have answered all my questions about how to use my new laptop/battery.

 

I own an Asus W3J. The main battery is a pretty chunky 8-cell, rated at +14.8V, 4800mah. While the laptop supports a secondary modular battery I was wondering if there was a way to further increase battery life. Other laptops I've read with only 6 cells also offer the same 4800 but at a lower voltage.

I am a little confused with the mah rating because with 8 cells and 4800mah means 600mah per cell. When compared to commercial NiMH "AA" batteries with capacities exceeding 2000mah, these laptop li-ion batteries seem to have very low capacity?

So I was wondering if there was a way to open the plastic battery holder to slip in higher capacity cells?

I'm thinking as long as the voltage and discharge/charge rates are the same it should work?

 

I wouldn't recommend messing around with the cells of your battery. You could damage something or create a dangerous situation for yourself or your notebook.

There are companies out there that offer cell replacement--but I don't think they are doing anything in terms of increasing capacity. I think it's more of a replacing worn cells type of service. I am personally a little leery of those services.

The W3J gets pretty good battery life already though, doesn't it?

 

Does calibrating the battery make a difference when using different power management profiles ?(using vista on a SZ Vaio here). I'm wondering if I let it discharge in "maximum battery" does it affect the gauge's accuracy when I'm using a different profile such as "balanced".

 

I wouldn't think you have anything to be concerned about there. I would expect the power cut-off point to remain the same in the battery regardless of the power setting being used. It is a hardware setting. You will achieve the same result regardless of the power setting you are using--what will change is how long it takes you to get to the full discharge level.

 

Of course the battery is going to have a relatively constant cut-off point - power management profiles don't "add more power", but rather they allow different levels of power consumption to extend on-battery run time by throttling and turning off system components, right? Well, what I'm trying to find out is that if battery calibration happens when you are running in the very aggressive "maximum battery" profile, then would not the "on-battery time-remaining" part of the gauge become calibrated to that profile and maybe not be as accurate when running a less aggressive power management profile?

I

 

I can't see how that would affect the calibration in any way. The remaining fuel/charge (which equals battery time) is based on the remaining charge in the cells. The rate of discharge should have no effect on a "full vs. empty" gauge calibration.

Again, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

Hi, I've been looking at various notebooks recently comparing battery capacities. I have the LG S1 which has a 6-cell battery rated at 5200mah but compared to an asus A8js, its specifications show a 6 cell 3200mah battery and the Asus G1 is stated to have an 8 cell battery with 4800mah. The Lg and Asus laptops have similar components (except for that inch of screen size with the a8js) but I was wondering what is the relationship(if any) between the number of cells there are in a battery and the mah rating? The reviews at this site claim similar battery times for all 3 laptops.

 

Every system has its own rate of power consumption. There are also many factors that come into play when determining battery life--such as what devices are powered, what applications are running, and other power settings. Some systems seem to be a little better at running longer on battery than others--due to design and power consumption rates.

As far as the number of cells and the mah ratings are concerned--they simply tell you how much power the battery can store at max capacity.

 

Thanks for the prompt reply, I always though that the mah rating was the actual capacity. I guess what I'm interested in is the way the laptops are advertised tend to only reveal how many cells are in the batteries despite how the mah can vary. Just some dastardly marketing ploy then? Dastards.

 

Though the number of cells (AFAIK) can affect one thing directly : Weight.

 

Well not all batteries are created equally. There are variances in the technologies, design, etc. That can explain some of the differences in mah despite the same number of cells.

Ultimately, what's more important is the actual rate of power consumption the notebook in question has. If battery life is critical, choose a notebook with a modular battery or excellent life from an extended battery and learn to do everything you can to prolong your battery life.

batteryuniversity.com is a great resource for reading up on batteries. Here is a page that may help answer your question.

 

And as a general rule the more powerful the notebook...the more power it will consume...and the shorter the battery life. Most of the Sonys have superb battery life, but are not powering a real gaming machine.

I think keeping an extra battery around is the best idea if you are concerned about battery life, regardless of which notebook you have.

 

Good thread.

I've just got a question about calibration. I own a Macbook, and I followed Apple's guidance for calibration - i.e. charged it to full before using it for the first time, left it for two hours plugged in, then used the macbook until it shut itself into sleep. I then left it for five hours in sleep, during which time it completely drained (as the sleep light went off), then recharged to full again.

Was that correct? From reading this thread, I'm confused about calibration, as I get the impression from some that I was supposed to charge it back to full again as soon as the laptop went into auto-sleep (ie when the battery was at 10% or so) rather than leaving it for a further five hours to completely drain it.

Incidentally, before calibration, the new Macbook had 96% capacity on its battery according to coconut battery, after, it was down to 95%. Should I be worried that I did something wrong? Surely calibration should raise the capacity a bit...

TIA.

 

should I worry or contact dell if my battery shows 26% wear level...

It can only be charged to 63Wh from the original 85Wh and I've rarely used it in 4 months..

I have talked to Dell but they tell me they can do nothing until DellQuickset shows I need a new battery; which I assume it says so when the battery reaches a level like 50% or more wear...

Help... My laptop is supposed to last about 5 hours normally (I know by other posts) and all I can get is 3.5 hours and all I've ever got is 4 hours... all at minimun settings..

Please some advice...

 

Well I know that Mac uses a slightly different battery technology than most other manufacturers...so following their specific directions should not be harmful if anything. And what you did pretty much follows the basic calibration technique discussed above anyway so no worries there either.

As far as calibration raising the capacity of the battery is concerned, however, that is not correct. It merely helps your fuel gauge stay accurate.

What utility are you using to get 26% battery wear levels? And were you ever able to get 5 hours of battery life? Remember that manufacturers often give high-end estimates on their systems' battery life. Imagine they undervolted and diabled every possible thing with everything on minimum power settings with the system idling...and you might get the idea of how some of these posted battery times are reached.

 

I used Notebook Hardware Control and Battery something... both told me exactly the 26% wear level. Out of 85Wh, the maximun charge is 63Wh.

Dell announces my battery to last 7hours and 56 minutes... but the most someone has reached is a little over 5 hours... Dell told they reached the almost 8 hours by suspending the laptop.. wow...

I was never able to get more than 4 hours... I thought it was ok until I started reading forums about my laptop (XPS m1210).

The battery doesn't have more than say 10 or 15 charge cycles as I rarely use it... When I don't use it, I store it aside from my laptop in "a cool dry place"... so I've not either overused it or misused it... Thanks for the reply...

 

Thank you Chris for this very informative guide. I believe that all my Laptop batt. questions have been answered.

 

It's possibly that they sent you a battery from older stock...and so it had degraded a bit before you got it. I'd keep on Dell about that as it's really unacceptable in my opinion if you receive a battery that's already slipped so far so fast. They may make you wait a little longer until the levels run a bit lower--but keep in mind that large computer sellers like Dell get a lot of those claims for replacement batteries. Their staff may not be the most experienced or skilled to sift through the bogus claims, etc.

Good luck with that.

 

thanks for this post.
im gone keep my battery out of my system since its pluggeed in most of the time.

 

i did read about it not being a good idea. a power failure might damage the system. i read that from the ASUS site..

 

Are you referring to keeping the battery stored separately from the system? If so you are correct about losing the backup function of a notebook battery.

It is also listed in the guide above as a con for removing the battery and placing it into prolonged storage.

 

very good article! I wish I read it two years ago. My dell XPS M140 with 9 cell battery nwo only have 1.2 hr life after two year. Another one with 3+ usage almost dead.

 

There's nothing to regret. Li-Ion batteries will degrade regardless of what you do. You can only slow their decline; you cannot stop it.

I have these 8 year-old batteries from my first notebook that still had at least an hour of life in them last time I checked (almost a year ago). Pretty good.

 

I'm a bit curious if this procedure to extend a battery's lifetime is actually a good thing. I got this new battery in January 2007 and I did this procedure in February 2007 for about 3 weeks and since then my battery has actually gotten worse.

First I set my laptop to Hibernate when battery power reaches 10%. I reach about 50% and then it hibernates. I plug it back in and boot into Windows and The battery is down to less than 5%. I check my wear level its about 10%

Second time I use my battery, wear level jumps to about 15%

Third time I use my battery, wear level jumps to 20%

Fourth time I use my battery, wear level jumps to 30%

Fifth time was a few days ago. I can only get about 2 hours out of it now. My laptop hibernates at 20%. Plug back in wear level is now at 35%. I now have less than 2 hours.

I got this battery in January and in 4 months I lost about 35% of it. I find that to be highly abnormal considering the battery that originally came with my laptop in January 2006 took about a year just to reach 10% wear level. and I've used that battery a lot more than the one I have now. On my friends laptop his battery is at 25% after two years! two years! and its only 25%.

I'm not saying that this article is horrible. I just think that there may be unforeseen consequences which can adversely affect the battery by following this guide. In my case a continually increasing wear level each time I use the battery. I would like to know if anyone has had this sort of problem after following this guide. I have 2 new replacement batteries from Acer which I have not been stored in the fridge, and I don't really want to test if this guide might damage them.

 

vestige, I am sorry to hear about the rapid deterioration of your battery. What application are you using to determine battery wear with?

How many times did you calibrate in those 3 weeks? The recommended amount would be 1 time in 3 weeks to a month (approximately 30 charge cycles assuming you're using the battery every day).

I'm sorry. I have a hard time following this. Could you rephrase the order of events for us?