Performance Issues with HM250JI HDD, the new Samsung 250GB SATA drive.

Hi,

The HM250JI, samsung new 250 GB laptop hard drive seems to have horrible performance on some very common laptop hardware, like the Core duo and Santa rosa platform.
I'm trying to get it echanged by Samsung, but want to be sure that I won't get a similare Disk.
The main problem is it extremely slow performance (see the HD tune graph to see what I mean by slow) on the 1st quarter of the disk, making the operating system slow to load and respond.
Also very abnormal loud click append from time to time.

So far 3 peoples including me have confirmed the problem and also confrimed that the disk can work normaly on some desktop sata contoller or in a USB enclosure.

My configuration is the following one:
DELL XPS 1210 running vista with all the drivers and bios up-to-date. The disk firmware version is HS100-06.

I would apreciate if anyone with this hardrive could do a hdtune test and post-it.
I have the feeling that if not all, a significant percentage of HM250JI on the market are faulty.


The problem as been originally highlighted in this thread about all the new harddrives recentelly released:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=135185

 

Samsung might give you a hard time about this statment. The drive does work. It is just slow. I dont think they will fix this on warranty.

 

The HM250JI is seriously buggy. There's more discussion in this thread.

It worked fine when I first tested it in my desktop computer (ATI chipset) and from 50GB onwards works fine in my Samsung X60 plus notebook. The problem is that the first 50GB has a horrendously slow data transfer rate. After that it is very good. I'll reattach my graphs for desktop and notebook (same HDD).

I've tried reporting the problem to Samsung but the answer I get is that the Samsung notebook was not designed to work with drives of this size. I don't believe that. There was an issue with 48 bit LBA and addressing above 128MB, but I have had zero problem with my Samsung HM160JI in the same notebook.

This wouldn't be the first time that Samsung have got something wrong with their HDD firmware. Go to the Samsung HDD FAQs and you will see various patches for problems. At the moment I am not sure if Samung UK support actually appreciate that it is a HDD problem and have passed it back to Korea for urgent attention. I hope that the people in Korea are also getting reports of problems with the HM250JI from other countries.

If I could find (in UK) another brand of 250GB HDD at a similar price then I would buy it and try it. That would provide the final evidence that there's a bug in the HM250JI.

John

 

Actually Samsung itself won't give you a hard time about the statement. But Samsung Fanboi's most certainly will!

 

If Samsung can fix it by firmware update then they will. If they cant I dont think they will except the drive as faulty. It is not faulty. It is just slow. Samsung makes no promises about how fast the drive should be so they have no reason to take the drive back or exchange it. Even more the drive works on other chipsets without problems. Compatability problems is not a warranty issue.

 

Samsung have the choice of either acknowledging and fixing this problem or discovering that their sales of notebook HDDs slump as people shop elsewhere.

At the moment I see no acknowledgement that there is a possible problem. Potential buyers should be aware that the Samsung HM250JI might work fine, or it might not.

John

 

to look at the problem with some irony, this is what the performance of the first 50GB of the samsung drive compares to :
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/11/27/15-years-of-hard-drive-history/page3.html

 

I've ordered the WD WD2500BEVS which is also in stock in UK. It should come tomorrow. If that works fine then I have conclusive evidence to put in front of Samsung. The WD seems to be a little slower and hotter than the HM250JI but it seems to be fairly quiet.

John

 

I couldnt hear my WD when I ran the test the other day without putting my ear right next to it.

I did run it on my desktop tho not inside of a notebook, so its possible to have the same type of problem the samsung did but I doubt it.

I think the answer "250gb was not meant for notebooks its too big" is total BS, if thats the case then why did they make it???

I will definitly retest once I have the C90 in my hands and all assembled. Its looking like probably the middle of next week is when thats possible.

 

It's interesting that the CPU usage is very high with this Samsung drive, all drives I tried had CPU usage about 2-3%, compared to about 10% with this Samsung.

I was also thinking about this Samsung HDD, but fortunately I chose the WD 250GB/5400. So far, I am happy with this drive (installed in HP nc8430 with Core Duo). You can see my HDTune attached. It looks to have similar speed as the Samsung when working correctly, except the CPU usage.

 

I'm not sure if the CPU load is attributable to the HDD or just the number of processes running on the test computer. I tend to have a lot running.

I see that Trusted Reviews also got the anomalous data transfer performance with the HM250JI connected to an Intel 975XBX2 desktop motherboard. However, since the review was primarily about the 32GB SSD, they didn't comment on the HM250JI.

John

 

The HDD Trusted Reviews used seems to have an older firmware, HS100-02, if you look at the screenshot.
Mine is HS100-06. Doesn't sound good to me, I was really expecting a firmware fix to the problem.

We still have yet to see this HDD working properly on an Intel SATA controler (not just a laptop one).

 

chris2000, your new drive is under warranty right?

So, plug it into an external enclosure, and then with the drive being inside the enclosure, start to drop it onto concrete many feet above the ground (while the drive is on)! Unless there is a G-force sensor that the drive is collecting information from that Samsung engineers can probe later, you can have yourself a failed drive that Samsung will have to take back.

But it seems from this thread that others are having the same problem with the drive and you may get another drive from Samsung with the same problem.

 

I am sending back my Samsung to Newegg and getting the WD 250...I'm running a WD 160 GB as my primary drive right now in my HP, and except for running warm, it's been great. I put the original Hitachi 160 GB that was the secondary drive back in on Tuesday, and have not seen the 'disappearing act' I was seeing constatnly with the Samsung.

Now if only NewEgg had the Hitachi 250 GB drive in their stock...I'd have gone with that! BTW: zipzoomfly.com has all three flavors of 2.5" 250GB hard drives in stock, all with free shipping: Hitachi for $219, Samsung for $195, WD for $189...all are "bulk" drives, but all have free shipping.

 

Until we get acknowledgement from Samsung that there is a problem which they are fixing then it is very probable that a HDD returned to Samsung would be replaced by another with the same problem. Let me see how the WD 250GB performs - it is on a delivery van.

John

 

Don't forget to let us know in this thread your comparison of these two drives please.

 

I hope they fix this by August or September. My Zepto has this HDD inside

 

Can you run the HDTune and show us your results?

 

My WD2500BEVS arrived. So far I have tested it in my desktop computer. The results, plus my previous results for the Samsung HM250JI when plugged into that computer, are attached.

The WD has a slightly lower data transfer rate and a lower CPU utilisation (the test conditions should be similar).

Now to clone my existing HDD and get the WD into my notebook.

John

 

Thank yoy for the comparison.

It looks that there is some lower transfer rate, but on the other hand, also faster access times. Anyway, 10.4% CPU usage still worries me, compared to 4.5% with the WD.

 

My WD2500BEVS is now up and running in my Samsung X60 plus notebook.

As you will see from the attached, Samsung's explanation that my notebook is not compatible with 250GB HDDs has been disproved. This was not unexpected.

I must now put the evidence in front of the Samsung support people. I want that HM250JI to be working properly before my Dell M1330 arrives.

John

 

I haven't got it yet, that's why I'm praying that they ship fixed versions by then

 

John: as you are running the WD hdd in your notebook, can you hear some very light click sound comming from the drive sometimes? It looks like the HDD parks the heads when there is nothing to do for some period (10 seconds or so) and then when you want to access the hdd, it makes that noise.

 

So far it is very quiet. I haven't noticed any clicks. Give it time....

John

 

I wouldn't think anyone would ship the HM250JI in a notebook if there are incompatibilities (assuming that they have done some testing).

What chipset in is in the notebook?

So far, I know it doesn't work with the Intel 945PM in my Samsung X60 plus.

John

 

No clicks on my wd250 yet, and silent. Also I read that they incorporated a tech where the heads park on the outside of the disk when its idle or when you power off as to increase the life of the disk and help prevent shock damage and the like. So maybe that click has something to do with yours not doing that correctly?

 

I sent an email explaining our problem to Samsung using that link:
http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer/sea/jsp/sendmail/faqs_sendmail.jsp

I've bought the HDD in Australia, but I tough because USA is a much bigger market I would get a faster reply on the US site.
But 2 days later, I've got nothing, not even an automatic reply telling that people are looking after my complain.

 

I am looking at this Hitachi monster
is this for reals? anybody have one?
7200rpm! 16mb cache! 200GB!
HDtune anyone?

 

yeah we have test up of it, try searching for it in the forums search dialog you should find it.

You can find my WD250 results in the same thread to compare to it.

Its definitly faster, but in my opinion not worth it since the WD250 clearly wins out in price/performance/size when you factor all of them together.

 

According to the Zepto site

 

I have posted a question about the HM250JI in the Zepto forum. I hope some people will see and respond. Zepto should have done some testing but it may not have picked up this problem (if it occurs). I will be happier if the HM250JI does work with the 965PM + ICH8-M chipset then I can put the HDD into my Dell M1330 and expect it to work properly.

I filed a support request today through the Samsung erms and got a very quick reply to run the Samsung diagnostics. I made the mistake of not attaching all the previous correspondence. I have previously run the diagnostics and they show no problem. I know the disk itself is fine. The bug is somewhere in the interface.

I'll try again on Monday and see if I can get hold of the person I previously talked to about this problem.

John

PS: I now see that the questions has already been asked in the Zepto forum (so I have merged the two threads)

 

After read this thread, I cancelled my HM250JI and brought a Hitachi 5k250. Zipzoomfly charged me $15 for re-stock fee even the drive has not been shipped when I cancelled my order, but at least I don't have to contact Samsung and deal with their custom service.

 

I have managed to get a reply out of Samsung UK support that this problem has been passed up the chain.

So far, I have noticed that the WD2500BEVS is keeping very cool (around 35 - 36C under light use with an ambient temperature of 23C), so maybe the energy consumption measurements don't represent the normal usage pattern.

John

 

Just fund this thread, and this is intresting. I have two HM250JI, i'm trying to put those in a couple of macbooks, and they won't play nice with the controller at all (ICH7-M). Trying to partion them takes a long time or just hangs. Both disks work great with an external USBcase or in a pc.

The thing is these disks are known to work with macbooks but i've come across other persons who are having the same trubble as i am with brand new disk.

I think its a new firmware version that messed it up on these disks. Mine are HS100-07. So news of a firmware update from samsung is great.

meck

 

My problem HM250JI has firmware HS100-06, so it seems that F/W -07 is not any better.

John

 

I gave up on the Samsung HDD, I managed to get a refund (after a long negociations about what's considered a faulty product in Australia), and chose a WD2500BEVS to replace it.
I can definitelly feel the overall differance using Vista, and especially when hibernating and resuming from hibernation.
I also feel that my data are much safer now, no more scary clunk,click....
I'll suggest you guys to look carefully after your consumers rights in your country, unless you're don't mind waiting.

 

I installed this HDD in my MacBook and have been experiencing the same problems as everyone else in this thread. I have the HS100-07 firmware and a ICH7-M controller.

Do Samsung issue firmware updates for HDDs? I googled it and didn't really come up with much. Oh well, I just sent an e-mail to Samsung Switzerland regarding the issue as well.

 

Samsung say they don't issue firmware updates, but they have issued patches to fix previous problems.

I have applied to my supplier to RMA my HM250JI and replace it with the WD2500BEVS (which has impressed me because it runs even cooler than the Samsung HDD). I had to buy the WD HDD in order to have evidence to put in front of Samsung support that the problem is with the HDD and not the computer, but I can use a second 250GB HDD.

Sooner or later Samsung will realise that they have a problem, but people may have first gone elsewhere.

John

 

Considering how many users affected are using MacBooks, if/when a patch is released it will be quite a hassle for these users to install it. From what I can tell, in order for the patch to be applied, the HDD needs to be installed internally in a PC with a standard BIOS. Unless there is some work-around?

This thread is the third search hit for "HM250JI" on google, so I try and remain optimistic that Samsung has a strong incentive to rectify this mess.

 

I've just received an RMA for my HM250JI, so it will be going back as soon as I can wipe it clean and put it in a box.

John

 

I see that Samsung have now published a patch for HM250JI boot-up problems. This also applies to MH160HJ.

There's no indication as to whether this also addresses the slow data transfer rate problem and I can't try it because my HM250JI has gone back.

John

 

I also sent mine back so I will not be able to try it either. The model seems to still be removed from their product website, despite this new patch.

 

John: So you recommend the WD? Low noise is very important to me, how would you describe it?
I'm currently using a 80 GB Hitachi but I want to get a 250 GB HDD instead.
Is the WD the one to get?

Thanks.

 

Cool, quiet and fast.

I've been sufficiently impressed by the WD2500BEVS that I've now got two. And it's easily available in Europe at a good price. The Samsung HDDs are also quiet but has uncertain compatibility. Both are much quieter than the Hitachi HDDs at their default settings.

John

 

I don't know if it has been mentioned in this thread, but it seems the first batch of the HM250JI sold in Europe were using a wrong version of firmware according to Tomshardware, and the newer version solves the problem.

 

dickeywang: Thanks for the link. That makes the Samsung look better.

John Ratsey: Thank you for helping. Can you tell any difference between the WD and the Samsung in therms of noise? The Samsung made loud clicking sounds, while the WD made less noise, am I right?

 

My Samsung HM250JI went back about a month ago because I couldn't get any sense out of Samsung support about the issue of a fix. However, at the time of the changeover I reckoned that the noise level was similar and the WD 2500BEVS doesn't make the occasional clunk that the Samsung did. At the moment I am letting Windows index my files so I can hear the heads moving around, particularly when the CPU fan stops.

Comparing the results in that Tom's Hardware review, it looks as if the Samsung is a little faster and uses slightly less power than the WD.

John

 

Anyone tested recent units of HM250JI, is this issue still present?
It is a tempting drive, the cheapest and faster than WD.

 

Got a newer revision (firmware ver. 8). Interestingly could not clone my old disk to the samsung with either norton ghost and acronis true image.
Did a clean install at the end.
The disk is the fastest I have tested in transfer rates (faster even than the 7k200 hitachi series!) and average for a 5400 drive in access times.
It is quiet and cool.

 

I have the same numbers on miy HM250, but my drive is vibrating a lot more than regular 5400 rpm drives. How is yours doing?