Please help me decide which proc and GPX cards with which ram for best benchmarks?

Hello and thanks for peeking in here.

I have two reasons for buying a laptop: Crysis on max, and editing HD video between scuba dives. Clevo seems like the hands down chassis to stuff everything into so:

What processor with which cards?

Should the GFX cards be in X-Fire or SLI?

Should I use DDR2 or DDR3?

What has produced the highest benchmarks? Where can I see these benchmarks side by side so I can compare them for myself?

Should I overclock this system?

I have about $5000 in my budget and I'm ready yesterday. Way ready ...

I appreciate your help ...

 

I wouldnt choose Clevo from past experiences. Other better options are the:
ASUS W90,OCZ Whitebook / Alienware M17/ Dell XPS1730/ Dell Precision M6400

Spending this much on a laptop is quite absurd. Have you ever thought about a lightweight laptop and a powerful desktop instead.
Even the best laptop cannot play games as well as a mid-high end desktop.

The memory type used is based on the processor and platform the system has.
For your video editing tasks, a quad core will be beneficial. The Q9000 is a good processor. It is the baseline for most quad core setups

K-TRON

 

Hello K-TRON. Thanks for the input.

From what I've been able to find out while doing the research here at .notebookreview.com, Alienware uses the Clevo chassis to build their M17 on. The various other botique laptop dealers that build that OCZ Whitebook all use the Clevo chasis and just rebrand it ... same as Alienware. SO I guess it's apples and oranges here.

Dell I cannot do just because they have such a poor customer service rep and really only care about their bottom line without even a pretense to caring about my needs. I've owned a few Dells and speak from experience not hearsay. I'll never buy another Dell, and now that Dell owns Alienware the customer service for Alienware has also gone down the drain. So I'm left with the ASUS W90 and the other Clevo suggestion. I looked at the ASUS W90, and while it's not bad for the money, I can afford better so why settle for less? Sagar, Eurocom, and XoticPC are where I'd buy that OCZ Whitebook/Clevo from, but before I do i need to get a better handle on the configuration of proc/GPX cards/ram to shoot for. So here we are ...

I have a PC at home that was built last October and it runs great, but the dang thing is a pain in the hinney to take on a dive trip. SO, I'm left with needs when I get on the boat, or settle into whatever will serve as lodgings, that can only be served by a laptop. Now, if I had to pinch pennies I'd scale down and settle for less but I don't think I need to do that. I can't spend my money when I'm dead so I might as well spend it on absurdities while I can.

Now we're getting to where I wanted to go K-TRON. you suggested the Q9000 for video editing, but with what GPX for maximum FPS/editing agility bearing in mind I'll spend the extra for SLI or X-Fire?

 

do you really need a "laptop" or would a custom built SFF PC with a decent monitor in a set of hard-side travelling cases do the job?

Or, get a cheap laptop with the biggest screen you can carry and use it via some kind of remote screen utility to the custom built SFF? You'd be surprised how snappy/responsive a laptop/pc remote screen hookup (RDP, VNC, etc) can be over gigabit when you're the only two machines on a private network.

 

Interesting concept. I'd wonder at getting the level of performance out of the spec's an SFF would be limited too, or am I wrong here? Are they getting powerful now? Dual GPX cards, and that Q9300, backed up with DDR3 seem to be what the best dressed systems are donning these days. It would be interesting to hear if we can we get something that good in an SFF ...

 

The alienware M17 is based on the Arima/Flextronics W840DI, which in simple terms is a rebranded OCZ whitebook.

Alienware has shifted a good deal away from Clevo, as most of their systems are now manufactured by Arima

There are a lot of Clevo knockoff's but all of the models I mentioned above are not Clevo's

Dell customer support can be good or bad, it depends what you pay for.
I know some people opt to get the lower warranties through Dell and they really do not help you much at all. Turn around times can be long, etc.
I have purchased the highest end warranty on both my Dell inspiron E1505 and 8500 and tech support has been great. When something broke, turn around time is basically 2-3 days just because of shipping. The guys on the phone arent that bad either. I am guessing customer service you get is based on the warranty you purchase. All 4 or 5 times I called dell over the past 7 years I talked to all US English speaking tech support people, and all of my problems were fixed in a timely manner.
Again, I am just sharing my experience with Dell.


For your build, the top card now is based on the mobile GTX 280 and it comes in the Dell M6400 and Clevo D900F and M570ETU.

The mobile quad core will be better in video editing and gaming performance, for cpu intensive games such as crysis and gta4. Again, no laptop will play these games at full swing as a desktop will. You have a wide price range, so maybe the QX9300 would be a better cpu for you. Its higher clock speed will really get those gears going in games and rendering/encoding.

I really do not recommend Clevo, they either manufacture an okay product or an utterly horrible one. I got one of those unlucky eggs and well it has been a nightmare which I never recommend anyone else going through. 5 replacement motherboards, 4 replacement memory cards, 2 replacement harddrives, 2 replacement graphics cards, and the list goes on.

K-TRON

 

A SFF desktop will definitely be a lot more powerful than a notebook due to increased space (so it can support better cooling, which is the main limiting factor of notebooks). However, you sacrifice a little bit of portability because although the chassis itself is easy to carry, you also need a monitor, keyboard and mouse at the minimum.

 

If you're looking for a ton of power in a notebook, don't even think about Dell/Alienware. They use old technology and are way overpriced. You're paying an extra 20% for flashy lights and bad hardware.

The Clevo m980 is coming out in a month or two and is going to be the biggest, baddest thing on the block. Dual 280m's in SLI, with a 3rd graphics card for powersaving, 18.4", 3x hard drives, up to 8gb ram, and the QX9300 processor.

However, if you want something right now, the 900f was just released with the new i7 core which dominates the competition. The only downside is that it only has a single 280m (still very powerful though), 17", supports up to 12gb ram, and 3x hard drives. This would be great for video editing, and can still run any game on the market on great specs.

 

Don't think of an SFF machine as the old integrated Shuttles. They can be quite fast. SFF cases aren't limited to the old 12" square units either. There are small cases from just about everyone these days.

Start by spec'ing out a mini-ITX board (or even a mATX) that supports the kind of cpu and ram you want and build a system around that. Don't forget to leave room for a video card if you really want one.

Speaking of video, QUESTION YOUR ASSUMPTIONS about what you need. Are you absolutely sure that you need multiple discrete graphic cards for vacation-land video editing? Are you editing HD video streams for immediate broadcast? Have a look at what something like Final Cut requires for video. The real-world requirement of your editing suite should drive your purchase here.

AMD makes some nice IGPs using their new architecture. People laugh at the Intel G45 but it holds its own very well if you're not going for max fps and max resolution in games. Intel is about to announce their new G55/58 IGP which is supposed to (finally) match the mid-range from both ATi and NV.

For drives I would use 2.5" high-quality laptop drives instead of 3.5". The 2.5" drives will be smaller (duh), quieter, use less power/generate less heat and probably will be more rugged. Get a pair of drives and run them as a mirror. Get a DVD writer (BR anyone) so you can make local backups and FedEx them home for safties sake. And get an 802.11 card or dongle for the machine as well.

Like I said, build yourself a small-ish machine and then get an inexpensive laptop to use as your monitor, keyboard, and mouse. It's a rare resort these days that won't have a spare keyboard and mouse lying around. If it's a better resort, it will be full of flat panel TV sets that more than likely have DVI computer inputs. That solves your monitor 'problem'.

 

Maybe you should read the OP first. Crysis, being a high end game on "max" and "HD video editing".

Also no IGPs can hold a candle to the new dedicated GPUs

 

Read that, been there. I'm trying to get the OP to question his assumptions about the gaming and HD. Is it something he heeds to do NOW or in three years. This is literally a two thousand dollar question.

 

He says he wanted it "yesterday" and is willing to drop $5000 on it, so I don't think money's a big issue for him.

 

first of all as a new member that's here specifically to research my next serious laptop purchase you guys are so very appreciated. I'm going to spend a few bucks here, so having the right facts from experienced people will help me maximise the value and minimize the horror.

Thanks so much everyone for the advice and the help.

On SFF:
I can try to answer the questions intended to help sort out my issues, and maybe refine this down a little. I've looked over the SFF's and when I combine one (and whatever else is needed) with the rest of my HD video gear, my dive gear and so on, from a practical standpoint ... I definitely need to go with a laptop.

"Is it something he heeds to do NOW or in three years."
I ordered the housing for the Canon HF S10 in a few weeks when it's ready to ship. You're already familiar with Final Cut so you know if I want to get anything done with the speed Final Cut can run at I need more than a mediocre system. I can go a month before I order if that waiting time will be fruitful.

K-TRON, thanks again. I did track that down on Arima and appreciate you setting me straight. Ar far as the issues yo had with Clevo, I relate. I had a similar experience with mobo's and processors on two different Dell systems. It was an emotionally draining experience no human being should have to suffer. I also live in Austin so I'm really torn by the issues around not buying another Dell. I know people that work there, and Dell has been absolutely great for the community, but as a customer I got seriously hosed.

So ... off to look at the Arima built systems, but one question lingers on ... does anyone know where I can find side by side benchmarks on these proc/gfx matchups? I know it'll all be subjective, but at least it'll be better than nothing at all.

As I read up on the Arima systems I see that people are very unhappy with ATI service and drivers. Lol ... my brain is about to melt from some of those threads where people start trolling each other and arguing about stuff ... wow. Some folks get wound up way toooo tight ...

 

m

Do you think u can put i7 in to the some laptop?
What do you need 3x HHD's for?
2x 500GB 7200rpm is enough ..
CPU: QX9300 or X9100 or T9900
8 GB ram
and ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4870 X2
You will have great nobo ...

 

What exactly is your question? Clevo's D900F DOES have an i7 in it (desktop CPU). You can't put a desktop CPU in any notebook.

 

that u must say to gamingACU not to me man
Just read first post what In1Ose asking for ... not desktop but laptop
and he was gamingACU suggesting i7 man ... that is only for desktop ...
In1Ose want powerfull laptop not desktop ...

 

...The i7 is available in the Clevo 900F NOTEBOOK. Yes, a Notebook. This machine was built primarily as a highpowered workstation for people, that say want to do high speed video editing and other scientific work that requires a huge processor.

Sgogeta was agreeing with ME, saying that IT IS available in a Notebook.

Also if you're doing a lot of video work, extra hard drive space is nice. Plus if you have 3x Hard drives you can run 2x SSD Drives in Raid and have a 3rd slower, but larger drive to store things.

Also, while I love ATI GPU's in Desktops, their driver support is pretty bad in Notebooks. I'd stay away from these until they become more stable.

 

So this is not an official/common product then ..
it's product made for someone private or special order for astronomical money for INTEL

 

WOW, maybe you should do some actual research before you ever type anything again. Please stop giving this person, and the general public bad information.

Again, this is the Clevo 900F. It's an Official Notebook, made by Clevo. Being sold by Sager, Xotic PC, Eurocom, and Kobalt (maybe a few others that I listed). It was announced months ago, but is finally available for order now. It utilizing the only i7core in a Notebook, 3x ddr3 ram slots, 3x hard drive bays, and the new 280m GPU, all in a 17" notebook. It's really not that expensive either. I believe the base models start around $2000 (still with great specs), and maxed out around $3500.

 

All True. However I'm of the opinion that just because someone has a budget of $5k doesn't mean that they should only be looking at $5k 'solutions'. Find something for $2k and that leaves $3k 'left over' for more dive fun.

 

.
WOW, maybe you should do some actual research before you ever type anything again. Please stop giving this person, and the general public bad information.
Looks like you mardy kid
I was searching it in google and I found nothing!
Because you have given some money you showing nobos above 2000 dollars... I doesn't mean everybody has it
I have the budget,but NEVER spend that stupid money for some stupid benchmarks ..!
Go play with your Cubes ,Squares and Triangles

 

1) http://www.sagernotebook.com/product_customed.php?pid=171297

Sager's NP9280, their version of the clevo 900f.

Fail at life more please.

2) Since when was this topic about Your and Your budget? It's not so GTFO.

3) $2000 isn't that much money, at least not for someone with a stable job. The OP is willing to spend $5000. I think showing him a superior computer for ~$3000 is not outrageous.

4) Higher Benchmarks = higher performace = higher quality, for both games and video editing, which is what the OP wants. Again, I don't believe he cares what you do or don't want or want to spend your money on, this is His Topic, and I'm trying to show him something that will cater to His needs.

 

Evoss-X, please keep the insults to yourself.

that is against forum rules.

please be civil when in discussions on NBR without resorting to personal attacks.

you have been warned.

and you can educate yourself by starting with the Clevo Guide before moving on to arguments.

 

Thank you very much. I had no idea what to say to that person. This is a forum for sharing information and helping each other not for starting wars.

GamingACU, you've been very concise and thorough. Thanks!!

 

my pleasure

 

In10se, any other questions? Do you think the Clevo D900F will be good enough for your needs?

Evoss-X, stop digging yourself into a bigger hole and just drop it.

 

evoss-x, you were providing bad info, very false info and then arguing with me about it, and then you were trying to direct this thread in a way that talked about your needs and not the OP. My posts have purely been trying to direct the OP to a notebook that, imo, was almost taliored to what he's looking for. Big, powerful, good gaming graphics, and a very powerful processor.

 

very false info - dont think so ...
and then you were trying to direct this thread in a way that talked about your needs and not the OP <-- you just fabler
urely been trying to direct the OP to a notebook that, imo, was almost taliored .. <--- yeah and I said this is not common in the world yet and as I can see on this web. there is nothing about it
: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors-Benchmarklist.2436.0.html
official top cpu is : QX9300
Just dont use those yours ''making people angry and make them
pissed off'' by your notices ... end story !

anyway that your lovely i7 is withdrawn from market .. because of issues ...
yeah for you what is most/top expensive that is best for you ... silly

 

What do you mean it's withdrawn from the market because of issues? Do you have any proof/link? It was just released and is fine. In fact several people have already purchased it and are awaiting their orders. Don't make speculative statements without showing their source.

 

If you're going to go with Clevo, might as well go/wait for the M980NU if you want to edit videos and max out Crysis.

 

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...o_Phase_Out_First_Core_i7_Microprocessor.html

Core i7 940
you seems to be same type of person like him to make me bad .. i noticed it couple weeks ago !
I really dont understand these people what pushing them to do it ..

 

Except that the processor is much weaker than the d900F's. Both are going to be good systems and both will run games well, but the 900f will run Video editing programs better, while the m980 will run games better. Both will work well for either though, it's just a choice of a 17" vs an 18.4" and processor vs SLI gpus.

@ Evoss-X Notebook Check is very unreliable at best. All their information is outdated and their benchmarks are based off of 1-2 trials and not using similar other hardware, which affects the benchmarks. The only way to truly justify a benchmark is if you use the same hardware the whole way through for each gpu/cpu, which they don't.
Almost everyone else on here will agree that while notebookcheck does provide a decent basis for cpus and gpus, that a lot of their information is inaccurate and old.

 

Thanks for asking and yes I'm still unresolved here. What I'm seeing is that we're at a point we've not ever been at before with laptops. We can now get fast enough FPS to run Crysis full tilt and do HD video editing on one machine. The hard part is selecting a unit that will be less trouble prone. There seems to be fans for each of the top performers recommending their personal fav's ... and rightly so. My confusion comes in when I try to sort out which one will be the most likely to not ever need an RMA.

So, my questions as a result of the great answers you've all provided to this point are as follows.

12GB Triple Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 3 X 4GB is a crap load of ram. I'm excited at option to have that much ram; however, will the bios, the Mobo, the 64 bit OS, the i7 processor, and either the GeForce GTX 280M SLI or the Mobility Radeon HD 4870 GPX SLI cards all play well together and use this ram or will something along the way only see X amount and disregard the remaining $500 or so worth of ram?

The i7 seems to be the new bad boy on the market. The power in that processor will make serious work of the GPX cards now rendering FPS and editing speeds that were unheard of a year ago. ATI has developed a bad rep for their poor driver support in laptops, yet the dual ATI cards are the top performers. If I use this i7 combined with a system that has these ATI cards can I yank the ATI cards and install the Geforce cards if the ATI cards become a PITA to deal with?

I'll for sure have another round of questions before I pull the trigger, but I do want to just say thanks again everyone.

I will post what I go with here, I'll keep the delivery and box opening posted here, and I'll upload a few pic's and screenshots with what ever I choose so you can see the results of your input in action. Hair loss will also be noted ... as well as the praise. I'm sure I'll learn how to overclock on this one too, and I'll use this thread to express my emotions on that as I go. I guess this will be my advanced laptop journal. I'll do all this not only for my own benefit, but because it might be helpful to someone else down the road, and allow me to pay back the help you've all given me along the way.

 

This is one thing that I can agree that website is snail yeah..
I had to wait pretty long time for results for T9800 ..
but can I find some similar web with all gpus/rams/ cpus specifications -including i7's ?

 

As far as I know the D900F Clevo is (and is going to be) the only notebook with the i7, until they do revisions and make a mobile version. The one they're putting in their notebook is the actual Desktop CPU, but they've modded their notebooks to use them.
The Ram question, 12gb of ram won't dramatically increase your gaming. I believe about 6gbs is the max where you'll see any difference, and most recommend only 4gb (for right now), however it will increase other types of programs that simply rely on pure speed. With 3x DDR 3 ram slots in the 900F you can easily and cheaply get 6gbs of ram instead of 12gbs and save about $1000 without seeing any noticeable decrease in performance, and then later upgrade these yourself after the prices of the 4gb sticks drop.
The support of the Nvidia vs ATI GPUs will be based off the the notebooks bios. Sometimes they will be interchangeable, and other times they might physically fit, but will have software issues. The 280m's should either perform evenly or outperform the 4870's. They've already scored the highest single gpu scores, and as soon as the first m980's ship we'll see how powerful they really are in SLI. They're expected to reach 18-20k in 3dmark06.

 

Tom's hardware is a pretty good site for the latest technology.

http://www.tomshardware.com/us

 

True, but considering that more video editing software are supporting GPU accelerated Video editing (and transcoding) via CUDA, processor power becomes less of an issue in that respect. This doesn't mean that two GPUs would have double the CUDA processing power over a one GPU setup seeing as according to nVidia, only one GPU in an SLi based system does the CUDA processing.

 

If Cuda is leaning more towards GPUs, but still only uses a single one then the 900F is still the better choice. With the new Quadros coming out, these will definitely be more powerful/beneficial to programs like that, and will still not need a reason for an SLI Machine. Also even though the i7's and the qx9300 are comparable while gaming, it's been shown that the i7 is much faster and more efficient while utilizing multicore processes.

 

For Video editing and other stuff, of course. But like I said, CUDA would reduce the difference in video editing performance, compared to the difference in gaming performance amongst the two.

Heh, I just realized that I'm actually promoting a 16:9 notebook over a 16:10 one. I'm just being practical and I doubt my petition is going to change the 16:9 movement/transition once it's done (though it's worth a try).

 

Your link is irrelevant to the discussion. There are no problems w/ i7s. Intel is phasing out old models so that they can put in new and faster models on the market:

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,9227.html

If you use 64-bit Vista then you will be able to fully use all that memory, so you won't have any issues with that.

 

You guys threw together one scary monster. I can't wait to see what it ends up looking like, you'll take some pics of it for us right?

Hm, do you mean to use stuff like Avid/Premiere primarily or stuff like After Effects too? As far as I've heard, CUDA has been utilized a little by AE so that might be worth considering, but Premiere and Avid don't have as much integration there yet. This is probably because encoding and rendering are much more CPU and RAM intensive than GPU.

Also, if you plan to use Avid, they appear to have made it a requirement to have a light Quadro card or a GeForce (optimized by Apple) for Macs at the minimum.

It matters what your priority is, video editing or gaming, because it's true that even a Quadro with GeForce drivers isn't really head-to-head. Then again, GeForce has some CUDA capability, and since it's hasn't been utilized so much yet, GeForce might not be a bad idea. This also depends on how long it is before you replace this laptop. CUDA will keep developing and perhaps it will really start taking some load off the CPU in editing later on.

Btw, Ichime made a good point, but with that budget I would opt for an SLI anyways for the gaming capability, regardless of whether it's used in editing.

If the 900F has an option for Quadros, that would make a great mix. I imagine a nice config would be something like what you're describing: i7 with Quadro(s), some DDR3, Turbo Memory, SSDs, a fat HD, and a wonka wiki card

 

Personally, I'd have i7 965 EE, 12GB DDR3, Intel X25-E 64GB SLC + 2x Samsung 256GB MLC SSDs, 2x FX 3700M (can it even do SLI? lol), Intel 5350agn.

 

That's a bit more specific, I like it. Btw, you pwned evoss with that link, haha.

In1, are you concerned whatsoever about the battery life of your laptop, I just realized it probably not going to run an hour with those specs..

 

So then if I go with a D900F and punch up the ram to meet the needs of whatever video editing suite I go with, can I overclock this badboy enough to run Crysis on max? If so, than it looks like I get to live in both worlds ... but for S&G's here are the two systems that it seems have evolved out of this discussion.

~OR~​

I welcome any changes anyone would make as long as it's not based on a budgetary concern.

 

Man there never seems to be a shortage of Alienware haters out there. lmao!

The M17 has the Montevina platform DDR3 memory up to 8Gigs, Extreme Quad core option, and many are getting over 17,000 on 3DMark06.

In1Ose, you would be wise not to let the Alienware haters steer you away from the M17. It's a durable, proven performer without any inherent design flaws. I don't have a Quad, I only have the X9100 proc. and play Crysis with everything maxed accept for shadows which is set to high. It's perfect fluid game play in any situation on any level.

 

Hehehe nah, I'm not even considering the battery life. I'll buy the spare just to satisfy the boyscout in me, but ... lol ... we know this thing will be an energy pig.

 

The exact same rig as the one from XoticPc is $4848 at Alienware. Plus you get the facial recognition software and illuminated keyboard.

 

Lol ... okay here's the M17 the way it looks like it would work for me so far.

 

What is that you're leaning on in your avatar? Looks like some video rig or a fricken machine gun ...

 

The Alienware needs a much better GPU to be competitive with the others. Also, if you are comfortable with simple DIY upgrades, then consider getting your own memory and hard drives. It will be cheaper and probably better than what you can configure.

A 4GB stick of DDR3-1067 is about $300 (it might be better to upgrade this depending on the price), while Intel X25-E 64GB SSD is about $750. You can step it down to a X25-M 80GB SSD for $300 or 160GB version for $550, if you feel a server level SSD isn't really needed, and 500GB 7200RPM drives run about $120 each.