RMA done - Questions

So, many of you on this forum have followed my 980m-related saga. Suffice to say, I just got an email from Sager telling me that they've finished checking my laptop and have sent it back to me.

However, they didn't mention anything about what they actually did with it. Did they find an issue? Were they able to replicate what I'd described? Was the problem solved?

Is there any way to inquire as to this or do I just have to wait it out until my rig gets back to me on Monday? I'd rather know in advance in case I need to start talking about a refund from my reseller...

 

Just ask for a full report of what went on. If they deny doing things but you notice changes... well.

 

Got a reply to the e-mail I sent:

"Hi Vitor, we found the nvidia 980M GPU not working right. The 980M GPU is replaced. The video driver and the audio driver are reinstalled. The HDMI output works normally. Also. The 3D benchmark scores are in normal range."

So, that's hopefully the problem solved. Looks like you were right - something was wrong with my GPU.

 

Well see there you go. Simple =D. You can't just have a totally broken system for no reason.

 

Eh, my reason was that I didn't want to go without DOTA 2 for more than a week. But hey, turns out my work laptop can (barely) run it at 60FPS if I turn down all settings, play at 720 and put the resolution scale to 60%. It's hideous, but it works.

Also, the RMA finished just in time for Dying Light so all has worked out well. Hopefully. I'm still suspicious. Will wait until Monday to check that things have indeed been fixed.

 

Wait so do you have your laptop or when you say RMA is finished, Sager have done repairing it and are shipping it back to you?

 

It'll arrive on Monday.

 

Correction, I think my laptop is currently sitting at my work's reception desk. Awesome.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaand nothing's changed. The exact same issues I was having previously are all present:

Lords of the Fallen stuck at 60% GPU usage and 35FPS.
Ryse: Son of Rome still refuses to go above 30/40FPS even though I occassionally played through the game at 50-60FPS when the GPU felt like actually doing work.
Far Cry 4 still outputs a blurry image over HDMI in Fullscreen mode and Borderless caps the FPS to 40FPS max even though I should be getting 60.
Tomb Raider continues to yo-yo from 40-60FPS in undemanding scenes.

Ugh.

 

Can you check what you get in BF4 MP for me? If you unlock FPS and use max fans and such, what do you get? And what drivers are you using?

 

What level in BF4? I'd have to download it again first. And how do you use max fans?

Using latest drivers.

Not that it matters. Same issues as before, I'm going straight for a refund and returning this thing.

 

Just played a 64 player game on Shanghai - game will not go above 50% GPU utilization. This is without V-sync, and this is on every preset (low, medium, high and ultra). Clock speeds stay the same, but game struggles to go above 40FPS above anything other than low.

 

Yeah get a refund.. This is just weird.. my GPU utilisation is always really hight on BF4 and I get 50fps++ with a 970M.. So something is really wrong with your system..

 

Okay. I'm telling ya straight. Something is wrong with your notebook, and I doubt it's the video card. Something, somewhere, some program, some setting, some SOMETHING you have set in that notebook is wrong. You can't be the ONLY user with this issue, especially after getting a new card.

 

Yup. No idea what do. I've nuked the SSDs, installed Windows 7/8/8.1 and have tried EVERY Nvidia driver released.

I wrote to the reseller and they are refusing to refund me since it's been over a month. Despite the fact that I've bought from them before, have recommend them to people here who have done business with them as a result and basically act as free advertising on a daily basis with my sig.

To be fair, I'm sure that was their default first reply so we'll see if they're a little more understanding now that I've explained things (they seem to think that my issues are only in 'some games' and that, because Sager replaced my GPU and ran 3D benchmark 13 with decent results, that nothing is wrong. Despite the fact that they didn't test any games. And were unable to replicate my blurry monitor issue).

 

Could it be a CPU problem? Am I being bottlenecked since my GPU refuses to go above 60% in so many games?

My reseller asked for me to send it their way so they can check. They still refuse to give a refund. Blame me for taking too long to return it - despite the fact that I got it in super-late October so between family visits/holidays and the two week RMA, there's no way I could have got it back to them in time. We shall see how it goes.

 

Well, let's check. Use HWiNFO to open a graph of CPU clock speeds, and launch a game. See if your CPU is holding full speeds.

 

Yeah try that.. I would be surprised if it didn't but you never know.. That might be the reason for all your problems.. Solution would easy: Throttlestop..

 

Yeah, so I've tried that before. And no effect. I'll give it another shot tonight but I'm not holding out hope. Throttlestop was my last resort before I did the RMA originally.

The reseller is also refusing to offer any sort of refund on a laptop since it was bought 3 months ago. I'm going to send it in to them since the Sager RMA did nothing. However, they didn't offer to pay for the postage. Is that normal? I'm following up to check because I'm not covering another $100 (with insurance) to have them take a look at this.

 

May I know which reseller this is? You can send me a private message, I just don't want to get burned ......Thanks

 

Probably the one in his sig?

 

Your warranty covers 2-way shipping to the RMA party. You don't have to pay unless you're not in the US. Of course this doesn't mean a thing if you're shipping to a middleman. Also, you never mentioned the CPU graph results.

 

Okay, sounds logical, I just wanna double check since he referred to it as "reseller", just in case

 

Didn't have time to check today, will do so tomorrow or Friday (busy week!). And yes, they will cover it to Sager, but not to the reseller itself as you mentioned. Basically, they've offered to have Sager pay for shipping for another RMA or I can pay $100 myself to have their internal tech team test the computer. I don't want to lose the laptop for another 2 weeks but, at this point, what can I do?

The warranty states that they will pay 'fair value' of the current unit if it fails but that full refunds are out of the question after 30 days. They don't consider the current issue 'failure' so I'm stuck for the time being. The sales rep is also being increasingly condescending in tone so I might ask to speak to their manager.

I'll PM you the name once I hear back from them - I want to give them one more chance to get on my good side

I think it would be harsh to start throwing their name in the mud after a week's worth of e-mail back and forth. If it gets to the point where I feel I have no other option, I will resort to publicly shaming them on this forum. I work in sales so I think it's fair that I give them a chance to redeem themselves. I'd want my clients to do the same for me! I don't want them to already potentially lose a sale due to me as, until now, I've been gladly recommending them to other users on this forum. I have spent close to $4,000 with them in the last 6 months or so. They can still fix this it's just that I may have to speak to someone else in order to get the result I want. I'm sure you understand! I'll keep you updated.

 

It is ironically Power Notebooks the reseller he advertises in his signature.. Well this is one reseller I would avoid from now on...

 

That's the reason I asked because it might be a different one, so let's hold our judgment until this issue is resolved.

 

Well, turns out the salesperson I was dealing with is the manager of PowerNoteBooks. So it's not like I can escalate it to anyone more senior. However, Donald was kind enough to explain (in a very, very long message that won't fit here) that the warranty is 100% Sager's purview. They only act as a storefront and the laptop construction itself and any customization is actually done directly by Sager.

They can't give a refund because they would have to get Sager to refund them first to do so. And this won't happen as we're over the 30 day period. Apparently they only make 4% of every sale so my roughly $3,800 spend over the past 7 months is closer to $360 in revenue for them. I'd feel bad leaving a small company $1.5k out of pocket if I were to push this further.

Sager is the only one who can do anything so I'll have to reach out to them again directly. Likely do another RMA and, if that doesn't work, then just promise to never buy Sager again. Despite the fact that this is my fourth one. Shame.

 

I'm telling you, you need much much more concrete evidence to push at Sager. You are the only one on this forum with these issues so far. There has to be something somewhere that's doing it, and you deserve to get it fixed.

You still never showed me the CPU speed graph and the GPU clock graph while gaming.

 

Thank you so much for understanding Vitor711. It really is an issue for Sager to resolve since it is their product and their warranty. They built it, warranted it, and shipped it directly to you. We offer better pricing than they do with our 3% cash discount, and by not forcing you to buy Windows, and we offer a much broader range of support hours, which is why many people prefer buying from one of the Sager resellers.

I have forwarded Sager this thread so they can see the details of your issue that you posted here, which should be helpful to their technicians. We can also arrange for the RMA and shipping label when you tell us you are ready to ship it back to Sager. I will also stay on top of it with Sager to make sure they don't send it back without being able to duplicate, and fix, your issues. Please be sure to email me once you have shipped it to Sager.

I do have a couple of little corrections to some of your posts here:
You received it on Friday, October 24th, not early December
You first reported issues with it on Wednesday, October 29th, but didn't send it back to Sager until January.
4% of $3,800 is $152 gross margin before company expenses.

 

I've got time to do that today. I remember attempting this a few weeks back and having no luck - what program did you recommend again? HWiNFO, right?

 

Yes

 

Downloaded and installed and now everything is working fine... Go figure. I'll try again over the next few days and see if I can't recreate the issues. I'll wait until I've done that before sending it back to Sager. Got the new RMA shipping on Friday so I'll wait a week at most if I can't make these issues reappear. Lord knows they were happening last week so I can't imagine it will be hard.

 

OK, I may need you to walk me through this - I've downloaded HWiNFO but have no idea what to do next. I've tried linking it to the Afterburner OSD. I've hit the 'benchmark' button but I've no idea how to create the graph you wanted.

 

Will say, after reading this thread, I've lost even more reason to use a small reseller... hate to say that, but I'd never survive in my business if I simply told customers, sorry I don't make enough money per sale to make things right. What's the best solution here? Sager is big and doesn't care, and the reseller is too small to make it right.... seems a lost middle ground unfortunately.

While I absolutely get annoyed at Newegg and Amazon at times (but LOVE their fast ship times), they can help more with problem issues it appears if you can convince them to get involved.

In full disclosure, Sager is bottom of the list quality wise for me based on previous experiences, so maybe I'm biased... I just wish the resellers had more pull against them. I wish you luck in getting your problem resolved, it sounds PowerNotebooks is at least on your side against Sager.

 

Open in "sensors only". Right click the CPU cores. Click "show graph" on all of them. Set the graph peaks to "3600" (your 4-core turbo; unless you OC'd). Play game and after stuttering occurs, watch graph.

Or, use MSI Afterburner and its in-game overlay to see your CPU speeds in real-time.

 

Oh hi laptop, nice to see you back to your usual self - what's up with this? I was at 60FPS yesterday, same section with the exact same settings. Unplugging/plugging the machine in does nothing. It looks like it's defaulting to battery power usage. It's saying that it's plugged and charging and everything is set to high performance/prefer Nvidia GPU.

Ryse:


Lords of the Fallen:



Tomb Raider:


Far Cry 4 in game:


Far Cry 4 in menus:


Dragon Age: Inquisition

 

I was hoping you would show CPU speeds by core using the overlay... but yes, you're right, that does appear to be the issue. Which means if it happened on your old system and it happens on your current one, then the problem probably exists somewhere you don't expect. You've done a fresh reinstall of windows... is it a new power brick? Have you tried at a different location? Are you using a voltage regulator in the house?

 

Yeah this is clutching straws but maybe you can try Xotic or Sager sending you a new power brick? Also like D2 said, does your house have voltage regulators etc?

 

If two entirely different systems (of the same model) are giving the same issues with no shared hardware (as he tried without using his SSD) then either he's installing something awful OR there is another factor at work, and we've already established that it's not his OS as even with a bare install it does that.

I'm even MORE thinking it's his house because it only happens on some days; like my shutdown issues.

 

The idea had cropped up in my mind also that it might be a voltage thing. I should try a different location. No idea if we have a voltage regulator - I'll check.

It's a different power brick by the way. Everything is different apart from the SSDs (and technically the same model of CPU/Mobo).

 

If you don't know if you have it, you don't have it. It's a small-ish device you plug into the wall which you then plug your PC stuff into.
I recommend APC Line-R 1200VA (it's what I'm using).

 

And did throttlestop work? Would be cheaper and simpler to simply use throttlestop then to return it again. 3 months down the line it sounds normal that they refuse to give you a refund on it. Throttlestop can vey easily be setup in windows scheduler to start with windows then you shouldn't need to have to fiddle with it every time you start your laptop.

 

Already tried it, it didn't work.

I'll look into that. The PC is still doing the HDMi disconnect thing though which is weird - it did it with my home cinema system upstairs, not just the monitor. I don't think the voltage would affect that.

 

Voltage issues can do things you never thought possible. I've had my mouse get a double click bug because of voltage problems. Can't drag with it, can't hold down to fire with it. Used Line-R and that was the end of the issue.

And my trackpads didn't have the double-click bug.

 

I work in a power plant, we run on our own "house power" but its largely unbalanced (unregulated VARS, its a complex electrical engineering thing, but it can be the root of your problem). I have a Sager 9860 from back in 2004. Using it in our plant at times, I eventually fried the MB. It was a ***** to fix as the PC was around 8 years old at the time, still useful but hardly new and MBs especially hard to come by.

If your power in your home is prone to variance (brown outs etc) it will screw any sensitive electronics. Same with using them with a modified sine inverter - you need pure sine only.

That said, my brother also got a Sager later model (around 2007) and his did develop a problem. He was on a business trip to CA and happened to go to their site in City of Industry, CA. They fixed it right on the spot. I wouldn't just assume the PC or the company are bottom of the heap. With 2 PCs from them we've had experience to the contrary.

Any PC will go tits up if you mistreat it - either by intentionally tweaking it or unintentionally by hooking it up at granny's house with all the ground faults causing the lights to flicker.

 

I can't help but feel that was a pun...at least I chuckled.

 

Another free two issues to check.

1.) your wireless, those drivers can wreak havoc, try disabling and other drivers.

2.) HDMI disconnect can happen from a ground loop. Static buildup can also cause interference in a system/GPU. A ground loop can also trash a system or GPU.

Edit; the fact the monitor and TV had issues says you may have an entire house issue with ground. If this is the case fix it ASAP as it is a death trap for high end electronics.

Just throwing my 2 cents in.......