Raid0 Setup M.2. vs HD/SSD?

I've been designing a Sager 8650 for college (hard budget of $1500), and I like it. Through XoticPC I got it to 16GB RAM, IC Diamond, a 1TB 7200 RPM hard drive, and a 120GB SSD hard drive in Raid0 form (or so it says, for $1499). However, on Sager's site, after applying all of the other identical customizations/upgrades, it doesn't allow me to put anything but identical drives in Raid0. So I can either go for two 128GB SSD drives in Raid0 or a 1TB 7200 RPM hard drive and a 128GB m.2. SSD drive. It comes with Windows 8.1 and is only $1450 through Sager, though.

A few questions:
Is Raid0 possible without identical drives/is XoticPC selling me something that won't work as advertised/why wouldn't Sager offer it?
If I can't customize to that hard drive formation, can I get the same effect with the m.2. SSD drive?
Last but not least: If neither of those work and I still want to get the computer through Sager, what is the best/closest customization to the 1TB 7200RPM + 120GB SSD I could do? I want to use the computer for college work and gaming.

 

120GB RAID0 setup is for 1999. Forget it going forward in 2015.

You need at least 2x 256GB drives in RAID0 and preferably something in the half terabyte capacity or higher range to get you through college - and, with no RAID setup. Unless you are editing RAW video on a daily basis (for paid/work purposes), RAID0 is just going to give you bragging rights and higher sequential transfers to an equally capable storage subsystem.

Don't know what Sager is offering, but any two drives can be used in an RAID0 array. The total capacity of that array will be 2x the size of the smallest drive. But again; this type of storage subsystem has been depreciated to a very narrow user workflow today.

With a minimum capacity of 480/500/512GB (depending on the model/brand you choose), keep in mind that you will want to OP it by at least 25% as recommended by Anand and closer to 30% if you want the highest sustained performance possible from your system indefinitely (almost no matter how you use it). That would become an ~312GB to ~333GB user available capacity with adequate OP'ing.

Make sure that the SSD is the only drive in the system when you do a clean install of the O/S (you can add the other drive after the O/S is installed). Do this even as it will be shipped with the O/S installed. This will ensure that the boot, O/S and Program drive is only the SSD and not dependent on any other drive (like the HDD you want).

Since you should do a clean install anyway; simply order it with a single/smallest HDD from Sager. Then, install the drives you want and configure them properly. Not only will you guarantee the proper install process. But you'll also save money to afford the bigger capacity SSD you really should be buying too.

Good luck.

 

I hate to be that guy, but I understood minimal amounts of what you just said. I just got into laptops, and only know what I've learned through forums like this. So pardon me if I say things that go against what you've said/that you've already answered, I honestly don't know I'm doing it.

I was told by an XoticPC representative that adding a Raid0 120GB SSD onto a 1TB 7200 RPM hard drive would almost make it a hybrid drive itself; I believe what you're saying is that is incorrect. My ideal setup is what I just described but all I can do through Sager (or all that I understand what I'm doing through Sager) is two identical drives - and given my budget constraint and desire for the 965M, I can't upgrade any further than two 120GB SSDs. I'm not sure what the difference between customizing the m.2.SSD drive and adding a second SSD hard drive is, though. Especially since you can make the m.2. your C: drive.

Let me ask you, and anyone else, then: What would you suggest I should go for, if not a Raid0? I can get the setup I described earlier (1TB 7200 RPM + 120GB SSD) from Xotic, but that comes without Windows and I'm not sure if I'd be able to install it correctly. From Sager, it's cheaper even with 8.1, but I feel limited by the hard drive choices since what I do understand/what I've been told isn't available for me to choose.

When you say I should make sure the SSD is the only drive, are you saying I should configure a m.2. SSD or SSD hard drive as the main C: drive and have the 1TB 7200 RPM as a backup storage drive?

(I say all this knowing almost nothing about physically putting together and installing the laptop; I plan to boot up and download software onto the machine I receive in the mail.)

 

Hey! We were all once 'that guy'. Let me see if I can help.

In your second paragraph, I would ignore what the 'representative' said regarding the drive configuration. He/they are just trying to dump the last of the effectively useless small capacity drives. Don't buy an SSD of less than ~480GB even if they give it to you for $50. They are not even worth that (compared to larger/better/faster SSD's).

And... almost all SSD's available today need OP'ing to give the performance they promise on a consistent basis (OP'ing is Over Provisioning, which essentially means you leave a portion of the drive as 'unallocated' capacity to allow the SSD to perform it's internal GC (Garbage Collection and other internal cleanup routines on the nand chips).

The smaller SSD's not only are inadequate in capacity (even without OP'ing), but also in performance too. This is because of the physical arrangement and number of the nand packages which with a larger capacity SSD is easier to optimize for the number of controller channels the SSD has and also, the interleaving of nand chips on each channel which gives the larger SSD's their much higher performance, sustained, over time.

Like I said before, buy the system with the smallest/cheapest HDD you can configure it with (this is mostly as insurance to prove any hardware fault in the future - I would not use this drive, but rather, keep it in storage as 'insurance' and to sell with the system when it comes time to buy a new platform).

With the money saved by not paying the third party premiums on parts you can buy directly yourself, you should be able to get a 1TB 7200RPM HDD and a 480/500/512GB SSD too. Make sure the Windows original Install DVD comes with your purchase, along with the DVD containing the shipping Drivers for your system.

At this point, it is a simple matter of removing a cover or two (and a handful of screws) and removing any drives that shipped with the system. Install the SSD by itself without the HDD that you need at this point, and install the O/S and the Drivers from the included DVD's.

After installing the O/S and Drivers, you can install the remaining drive.

Remember that when swapping parts like this you want to remove the power cable from the computer and also remove the battery too. Ground yourself to a metal object and don't walk around while doing this swap. After you have replaced the components you swapped and attached the covers and screwed them down, replace the battery and/or the power cord connection too.

The time to learn the above is now, with a new notebook and no data or customizations installed.

It is easier than you think, really.

Hope this answers most of your questions, for now.

 

My goodness, this is incredibly helpful and explanatory. Thank you so much.

If I fully understand what you're saying, I should go for the base customization of the HDD and buy whatever SSD and HDD I actually want in the system. Before installing the OS, I should remove the HDD, put in the SSD, install, then put the HDD back in to have it for simply storage and not have to depend on the slower drive to run the entire computer. That does make sense, and if it's easier than you say, that does help. I'll have to look into it a bit since this will be my first notebook but that honestly is very logical.

I sadly have three slight concerns. One is that I can't seem to find a SSD that has the capacity you described for around $150, which maxes out my hard budget (and the computer can't come without a hard drive so that's the lowest I can get it). The second is that I'd be willing to pay premiums to have parts pre-installed since I'm positive I'll mess up somewhere in the installation. The third is that while I'll be using the computer for at least four years, I won't be the one purchasing it - my parents have generously given me the birthday gift of selecting and customizing my own computer up to a very hard budget of $1500. I've done my research and I've found that the 8650 is the computer for me; however, my parents aren't 100% sold on a computer that isn't a famous brand name and I'm sure they'd be even less sold on my having to take apart and install drives myself.

While these might get in the way a bit, if all of them were to be satisfied or resolved, I'd definitely do what you've described.

I do have one more question: Is a drive like the WD Black Squared set up like you've said, with the main C: drive as the SSD, or is it a hybrid that simply has gargantuan (in my eyes) additional SSD storage?

 

I don't know what the WD Black Squared is, link? Actually, never mind... if it is a hybrid drive; just ignore this type of storage subsystem in a platform like you've configured. In 2009, these drives would be great. In 2015, they are just cash grabs for the manufacturers with no real world performance increase for the user. Not to mention they are less reliable than simply HDD's too.

As for the SSD, what is the biggest size you can order directly from Sager? If you can order it directly and it is in the half terabyte range, call them up and ask them to fit it within your budget. And... drop the HDD for now.

You can always save up and add it in a couple of months or so for around $100 or less and since it will be strictly storage, there is nothing to setup except plug it in. Which reminds me; make sure it ships with all possible connectors for any storage device you want to put in now or in the future (that it has the bays and ports for, of course). Some manufacturers try to save a few pennies by not including the connectors, drive bay cages and such as is needed for their systems if you don't buy with all the storage bays filled with drives. Don't just take their word for it. Ask for an email that you save as proof of your conditions of purchase. While these parts may cost a few dollars after the fact, it is very hard to get them shipped specifically for your system, so don't think this is unimportant - along with the original O/S and Drivers DVD's, make sure you get this shipped with the system.

If your parents are not cash strapped and furthermore not budget limited and not buying this on credit; ask for a short term loan to get the system setup properly from the start. If they are also being stretched financially to provide this gift to you, buy the biggest SSD you can configure and haggle for right now and start saving for the extra storage a 1TB HDD will provide.

 

Black Squared is a hard drive with 120GB SSD in one unit. The devices are separate, but in the same package with a single connection, so if you're limited on storage bays, you can install one of these and get 1TB HDD + 120GB SSD in a single 2.5" 9.5mm form factor. This is of little use these days with multiple M.2 or mSATA bays in most laptops now plus 1 or 2 2.5" drive bays.

You can also special order from Sager without certain drives if you want to, just it will take longer for the order to be built. Any Sager branded laptop will come with all the connectors and screws you need to accommodate all drives whether they are installed at the factory or not. Sager is a great choice as I've been using them for a decade now, and they take care of their customers. But I recommend ordering through a reseller like LPC-Digital or XoticPC or PowerNotebooks.

Don't RAID 0 SSD's at all. Single SSD is plenty fast for what you need. tilleroftheearth is an OP happy person. I don't think it's a bad idea, just 25-30% is a bit overkill for an average Joe user's workload. I'm a pretty heavy user and OP 10% and have had no issues with SSD performance. If you hit the SSD hard every day with hundreds of GB's to TB's a day of writes, then you may want to OP heavily, otherwise 25-30% not really required. You can get away with a 256GB SSD with 10% OP with over 200GB free space remaining.

 

Wow, too much work... Yeah, of course I remember Black Squared, now.

Ignore it. Just like HTWingNut says. Thanks also to HTWingNut for his experience with Sager notebooks and noting that all the parts ship with the unit.

OP'ing, however, is not just for OP'ing happy people like me; Anand for one found a real use for it in his reports too.

See:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6489/playing-with-op

Like I said, if you want the highest sustained performance (which is still substantially lower than advertised specs) of your SSD's; OP'ing is the best way of getting that.

As for the smaller SSD's, I'll also repeat that for the newbie here;

The smaller capacity SSD's are inherently slower (especially after they reach steady state in about an hour of 'real' work) than their larger versions. This is because nand packages are not interleaved optimally per controller channel and worse, not all channels are used in the lowest capacity drives.

Think of interleaving as internal RAID0 of the nand chips and the 8 channels most controllers currently have as multiplying the performance of the SSD vs. lower channels. In addition, OP'ing on top of any built in OP the drive has allows the drive to have reserve performance on tap when the user requires it. Rather than the user initiating a demanding drive request and the drive basically ignoring for up to several long seconds (which seem like an eternity; I've seen SSD's scrambling for over a minute with no additional OP) the users inputs. At this point, it looks like the system has almost frozen. Yeah; it makes the platform behave like a HDD from prehistoric times.

See:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/...iew-120gb-250gb-500gb-750gb-1tb-models-tested

In the table titled "Samsung SSD 840 EVO Specifications", look how the lowest capacity drives have almost 1/3 the performance of higher capacity models. And this is when the are new, not after they've reached steady state.

(Note that I am NOT recommending the EVO or any TLC based SSD... see the following link for the reasons).

See:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1512915/...es-benchmarks-needed-to-confirm-affected-ssds

The above issue is still continuing a few months after Samsung has already issued a 'fix' that just doesn't work (at least for all users).

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/why-over-provision.760922/#post-9766709


The link above details the benefits of OP'ing even 'modern' SSD's. See my posts/replies in that thread starting with Post#3.

 

I must say, I'm a pretty average Joe user - this is an everyday laptop for assorted college work as well as the various Steam games I'm borderline addicted to. Nothing too heavy or too performance-demanding. I can run everything I plan on doing on my family's 2013 iMac ( https://support.apple.com/kb/SP688?locale=en_US); however, for a personal computer, I'm simply looking for an upgrade. Therefore, I'm going to adhere to my budget.

What seems the best to me (based on what you guys have said) is a high capacity SSD (mSATA 2) as the C: drive and an HDD (I can't drop it, it has to come with one) as a storage drive/backup with no RAID configuration. No matter whether or not they both come pre-installed (or whether I have to put in the drives myself), I'm looking for that setup. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've ascertained.

In that case, I'd be willing to pay a premium to get the SSD pre-installed since (through researching available SSD drives) it only costs around $30 for the labor of installation, and that's enough to ensure it's done by the professionals. I'd also want to conform it to my budget rather than conform my budget to the drive. I'm very interested in larger SSD drives (thank you for the links), but if all Xotic/Sager offer me is a 256GB that fits into the computer and budget, that's what I'll take.

I'm also going to look into OPing, this is the first I've heard of it. If I've run everything I've needed without it before now, however, I can't imagine I'd need to crank it up to 25%.

Thank you guys for all the help. I really appreciate it.

 

Until recently (needed some more space, and saw a deal), I ran a 256 GB SSD (from my last notebook) partitioned to about 212 (~17% OP?), alongside a 750GB HDD (that the computer came with). It worked very well for me - OS and programs on the SSD, all user data (downloads/desktop/etc) on the HDD.

It should work fine for your needs.

 

As a college student who recently purchased a Sager NP8651 through XoticPC:

A) Do not buy directly through Sager, buy through a reseller such as XoticPC. The resellers have much better customer support and are easier to get ahold of and work with in the event you have issues.

B) If you are a student, check out the Microsoft Dreamspark program. If your college participates in this program, you can get a free copy of Windows 8.1 Pro, which shaves $80 off the price of the laptop. The wording on the download makes it seem like it only works as an upgrade, but it definitely works as a clean install. Doing a clean install isn't that big of a deal. There are guides on how to set up a USB to install Windows; once that is done, the actual installation is easy, and it's a pretty simple matter to go to the Sager website and download and install the drivers.

C) If you are set on the NP8650, I'd configure it like this to start. If you intend to do any gaming or other graphically intense work, look into upgrading to the NP8651, which comes with the considerably more powerful 970M graphics card, and can also get a better screen. Either way, do not get 16GB of RAM when you order the laptop. They charge $90 to upgrade the RAM, when you can easily get a second 8GB stick for $50-60, and installation is trivial. So that would put the total to about $1240. That leaves $260 for an SSD. Just to note, the NP8650 and NP8651 have two 2.5" drive slots, but you can only use both if you use 7mm thick drives (meaning all 2.5" SSDs and certain slim profile HDDs). The standard 1TB HDD is a 9.5mm thick drive, which means that it will block the second 2.5" slot. So if you use the stock HDD, you have to use M.2 SSDs. It looks like the only 500GB M.2 option Xotic has is the Micron M600, but it costs $315, which is overpriced. Instead, look at something like the consumer version of the same drive, the Crucial MX200, which can be found for ~$220 in its 500GB M.2 configuration. As long as you are installing the OS yourself, physically installing the SSD yourself isn't a big deal. This isn't an Apple or a Dell we're dealing with here, Sager makes it pretty easy to access and swap out internal components.


Basically, the more stuff you are willing to do yourself, the more money you can save, which gives you more room to get better components.

 

A) Xotic has the better options anyway. It doesn't charge the premium for installing Windows 8.1, and is much more customizable. That's what I plan on doing.

B) I've found 8.1 Pro through Dreamspark; I'm taking that into account towards the total price. Do you have any of those guides handy or do you remember them? I've found some that say conflicting things.

C) I can't actually see the configuration...I just see the base.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/looking-for-college-gaming-computer-for-under-1500.772747/
Before I respond to the bulk of what you've said, please check out the other topic I posted here. This outlines what my budget entails and the customization I've made. I might actually try to save the $30-$40 by installing the RAM myself; however, that would be for the sake of saving money and not for other upgrades.
I looked at the 8651; the total price (not just the price of the computer) becomes much too high. I'm led to believe that the 965M is good enough for gaming; the 775M Mac I'm currently running is as well. Also, Xotic won't let me remove the standard HDD, so I'd be happy with a 128GB M.2

 

Don't recommend any M.2 drives that we can currently buy. Run too hot, throttle and give less performance than the $$$ thrown at them.

Xotic won't let you remove the standard HDD? This is a custom shop? Time to dump them...

 

Really? I've been told that since I can't put a second SSD drive in as a main OS C: drive, I should go for a M.2. drive. Would having IC Diamond help the running too hot?

This is a custom shop but it's also the cheapest and most in depth of the 8650 I've found anywhere

 

They'll let you swap it, but Sager won't ship a laptop without a drive in the primary bay. So that is an issue with any "reseller" of Sager laptops. However, if you go through a custom builder like Eurocom or Mythlogic, who buy Clevo barebones and actually do the assembly themselves, they sometimes let you order a laptop without any drives, although, they also tend to be more expensive than the Sager resellers.

However, if you really want a 2.5" SSD, you could order the laptop with the 1TB HDD, sell that HDD on ebay/craigslist, and then buy a thin 1TB HDD and a 500GB 2.5" SSD. Again, if you are installing the OS yourself anyway, installing the physical drives is pretty easy.

 

I'm checking out barebones sites - they do in fact push me out of range of my budget. Sadly.

I do have some questions; what's the difference between a 2.5" SSD and a m.2 SSD? All I know is that I want an SSD drive to hold the OS and use as my C: drive with a HDD as a storage/backup drive. Which is how I've customized the computer(s) in the other thread (there's much more info). And what would you consider a "thin" HDD for around the same price as the 1TB 7200 RPM SSD that would come with the 8650?

Additionally, given how closely I hit my budget (I have more info in the other thread), would it be possible to still afford an upgraded SSD and a slim HDD if I managed to sell the HDD installed?

 

The M.2 drives run too hot in a notebook. Simply too little airflow and no heat sinks or pads to properly cool it. IC Diamond is for the cpu. Won't keep the M.2 drive cool, but the M.2 drive will heat up the cpu and have it throttle too (how much depends on the actual chassis/cooling design, of course).

I don't know why you seem to be stuck on the 8650? There are many comparable options out there and some may even be better and less expensive too.

 

What comparable options are there? I'm only stuck on the 8650 because I've been told and I thought it was the best option for me (best available cheap customization of the 965M graphics card and hard drive options). I started a new thread to ask people what they thought of the customization or if they thought any other computer was better but all I've heard is crickets.

Oh dear. I'd much rather have a separate SSD then, not an m.2. Thank you for telling me this before I ordered an overheating machine.

 

Here is an example of an 2.5" SSD (SATAIII):

See:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX52695

Here is an example of an M.2 SSD:

See:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX52842


M.2 more expensive and slightly slower 'out of the box'. In use, the 2.5" SSD will spank the M.2 when it begins throttling. And makes other components throttle too in the confines of a mobile chassis.

The M.2 is similar to a RAM stick except one that is overclocked, has it's own cpu and works the memory cells harder than the RAM's nand. And... it is not capable of cooling itself, nor do most notebook makers account for the intense heat it gives off (both the controller/cpu and the nand, especially when writing data).


Sorry, not into recommending gaming systems. But the hardware you want is available from 'everywhere' and 'everyone' else.

Just saying to not get stuck on a single model, or reseller. The world is your oyster - get your money's worth.

 

Huh. Most resellers I've seen have the option to make the m.2 SSD drive the C: drive that hosts the OS but not two hard drives with the same options, just RAID options.

I've done thorough research; the 8650 looks like it's the computer in which all of those 'everywhere' and 'everyone' combines in the best way for my wants/needs, given that I'm willing to pay premiums for installation. Barebones are too expensive and other computers either have non-changeable lesser quality GPUs, not enough RAM available (up to less than 16GB), an inferior CPU, or an inferior starting HDD.

I have a full customization of the 8650 on hand:
Sager NP8650: $1499 (Xoctic)
15.6” FHD 16:9 LED Backlit Wide screen (1920x1080) Super Clear Matte Type Sager Screen
i7-4720 Processor
16GB Dual Memory RAM
GTX 965M
1TB 7200 RPM HDD storage drive + 128GB Crucial BX100 SSD OS drive (non-RAID) (don't know how to make the SSD the OS drive on Xotic)
Windows 8.1 Pro download for free from Dreamspark
IC7 Diamond
Microsoft Office ($80)
Mouse ($23)
Case ($17)

I've looked elsewhere for the other components to try to see if I could buy them for less - I can get IC7 Diamond and the second 8GB RAM stick for cheaper, but that's it. This is the best amalgamation of 'everywhere' and 'everyone' I've seen yet, or that i've customized yet for a total price of under $1500.

 

Um, ah, umm... you are over $1600 in your parts list above...

And the performance per $$$$ figure is easy to beat (and by a few hundred too).

My take:
IC7 Diamond - not needed 'now'.
Upgradeable gpu - not necessary (for the lifecycle of any system you buy today).
Pay premium for install - why? When you have this whole forum to guide you?
Dual drive setup - not necessary. If capacity is what you need, get a large capacity SSD instead (especially for a mobile system).

Buy the most hardware at the lowest price you can. Learn a little (here) to install simple components like drives, RAM and the O/S and drivers. Spend what you save towards an SSD that you'll still want to use in four years. And if you do get a HDD, make it an external to do backups to.

Just because you have a $1.5K/$1.6K budget doesn't mean you can buy anything and make it good.

The rest of the hardware deserves an SSD of at least half a terabyte or larger. Going for something a quarter of that size will be an exercise in frustration. Using a puny SSD with an HDD is also going to push it further down in perceived performance (and you will need to use the HDD for your installs). You might as well have spent a lot less on the cpu and possible the gpu too.

Those are my thoughts, but it seems to me that you've already decided that what you've selected is the best.

Hope that it proves so for you. Good luck.

 

Honestly, I'd opt for a machine with a 970m like the NP8651. It's worth the little extra. If you really want to skimp, go with 8GB RAM to start, easy enough to add another 8GB later, skip the IC Diamond, get a 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD. Don't go any smaller than 256GB. You will also get better results if you repaste the IC Diamond yourself, and a small tube will cost $8 + 90% (or greater) isopropyl alcohol to clean + paper towel. You can configure the NP8651 with 16GB RAM, 256GB M.2 SSD + 1TB HDD, stock paste, for about $1500.

 

Actually, the entire system comes out to about $1499, including the parts listed below (Office and mouse and case). I listed them because I wanted to know if anyone had any better/cheaper ideas or alternatives, and because they're part of the total price I take into account. I could go openoffice.org, which would save me $80; so on and so forth.

I can easily take off the IC Diamond 7 and install a second 8GB RAM myself, saving me about $60. I'm very interested in the best parts possible - I'd go full SSD if I thought it fit in my budget. If I don't initially go for the upgraded RAM or the IC Diamond 7, I can get a 500GB Crucial BX100 Series as the standard drive and buy and install the RAM and thermal compound myself and stay under budget. I'm interested in going all the way to 1TB Crucial BX100; not sure if I'll be allowed and pay out of pocket, though. I only went double drive setup because I thought that would benefit me the most.

Another reason I seem stuck to this computer is the GPU. I plan to game and therefore want a 9th gen Nvidia GTX above the 960M, or an upgrade from the 775M Mac I'm using on my family's computer. This computer is literally the cheapest I've seen that comes with the 965M unless you count an Amazon discount for the MSI Apache. However, since I'd rather run an SSD than an HDD (I'd run an HDD and it'd work absolutely fine but I'm trying to optimize), I'm not sure if I'd be able to uninstall the HDD and put in an SSD and load the OS on that instead of the 1TB HDD it comes with.

Honestly, I'd do any installations myself or swap drives if I thought that the savings would be able to get me significant upgrades, but $100 or so only takes you so far (I've looked, it doesn't upgrade from a 500GB SSD to a 1TB SSD).

 

As recommended in my earlier thread, you should get the 8651 + LG IPS screen (stock TN screen is junk).. Now Xotic can't garuntee that if you get the 1TB stock HDD, it will be 7mm height unless you get an SSD from them.. They're selling the BX100 SSD which is junk.. What I would do personally is get the machine without the HDD/SSD's and get my own.. XoticPC can give you a quote without HDD's and with the money you save go buy a 1TB 7mm HDD + Crucial MX100 256GB SSD (Costs $104) on amazon.. You are sorted... As for office, there will be some discount for students so get it from elsewhere!

 

alexfrank2750,

Please keep in mind that 1) I am not simply criticizing your current selection and 2) I am just trying to get you to see the most important aspects of putting a system together for the long term. A third item to note from my perspective is the 'need' of a GPU. Personally, I don't have that need in my workflows, but understand others (gamers) do.

What I do know is that an upgradeable gpu (and cpu for that matter) is not something that is worth paying extra for. Any additional performance possible from upgrading those components is 1) not offset by the premium to have them upgradeable in the first place and 2) the additional cost of their successors in some (near) future time period.

(I say 'near' future because in the far future upgrading anything is just a learning experience. The actual performance increase will pale compared to what will be available then).

In almost all cases of scenarios like the above (upgrade gpu and/or cpu); selling a current system as-is and buying a then current platform with the newest bells and whistles is the better long term use of funds. Especially when the actual (real world) performance benefits are taken into account. Further, don't ignore the secondary considerations that future generations of platforms usually provide; like better battery life, lower heat, less weight and of course, a new warranty to boot.

Sure, there can be specific cases where upgrading a core component like a cpu/gpu makes sense. But that usually happens only if you buy a the bottom of the model line (which you're not doing). Upgrading in the future to a high(er) end cpu/gpu component from a current high end component is only a 'side-grade', not an upgrade. Same as if you did it today. What makes you think that it will be worth doing it more then, than it is worth doing now?

What I have seen over and over again is that the best bang for the buck over multiple decades and multiple systems is not to get the best 'future-proof' (no such thing) setup you can get now. Rather, get the most hardware you can today for a given $$$$ outlay (period). (And when you need to, sell the old and buy new again).

This is not something I have done from the start, unfortunately. I learned the old and hard way (with my hard earned cash).

About the only things worth upgrading over the lifecycle of a system is the O/S, RAM and storage subsystems and on great systems; the battery too. That lifecycle can be up to a decade or more for good/great systems, depending on the final workload that is demanded of them then. But those that do last that long had great core components to start with, of course.



With all of the above in mind;

What makes a system a true pleasure to use over the long term besides its raw performance is a great keyboard, a great pointing device and a great (or at least good enough) screen. (My favorite setup: ThinkPad with TrackPoint - simply the best keyboard + mouse ever - especially for touch typists, like me).

Now, we can get to the performance parts:

The most satisfying systems I have had were the systems that were the most balanced. That means that the components were truly capable of working together without one seriously limiting the other. The current gen platform you have chosen, along with the CPU, RAM and O/S combination are all standouts. What is putting this off balance? The storage subsystem setup you think is good enough. It is not. Not if you want the rest of the components to shine today and for the (closer than you may think) near future.

I understand hard budgets. I understand wanting something configured from the 'factory'. And I understand that a seemingly complete system is superficially more appealing than a great base setup with a few things left to maximize and/or work on.

Your system as configured is not as balanced as it can be. The storage subsystem is holding it back immensely (whether you know it or not). Something else that is holding you back is the fact that you want this handed to you 'complete' and ready to go. I have never seen any system live up to that ideal. Ever.

You need to get your hands dirty, do some learning and be willing to mess up (a little), learn and then get to that perfect state. But what you definitely don't need is to pay for it and then learn otherwise (not with forums available).

Granted, an SSD, even a 'puny' one, will give a system a sense of snap. At least initially. But you're looking for something to use and depend on for the next few years. And it doesn't seem like you'll be upgrading anything in the next few years either.

I won't repeat myself why small capacity SSD's are 'toy' versions of their larger capacity models.

But I will note that my current setups are spec'd like so:

• 30% to 50% OP'ing - smallest SSD worth buying today is half a terabyte
  • 1TB level for work based systems
  • Anything smaller is simply not usable when the next 12 months are considered
• C:\Drive has full 150GB partitioned for O/S and Programs
  • Minimum 25GB free space for Windows - always
  • ~85GB used - remaining capacity used for swap/temp files, O/S and Program updates
• D:\Drive is the remaining capacity for Data (~167GB and ~500GB for 500GB and 1TB drives)
  • Static Data
  • WIP files (Work In Progress)

With 1.3GB's of Win8.1 updates just yesterday on my system(s), even this seemingly generous size for the boot drive may already feel cramped in just a few short months.


All the following are important:

• CPU
  • i7 QC or higher
• RAM
  • 16GB or more
• GPU
  • As needed
• SSD
  • As spec'd in this and previous posts

Buy the best combination of the above at the cheapest price you can. Remember, RAM and SSD doesn't have to come installed from the factory. At least within a 2-3 month window; save and upgrade them to the specs above. Or higher.

Always be prepared to do some work yourself, no matter what you pay for or think you'll recieve.

What you will have (for sure) in the short term trumps what you might have in the distant future.

Spend your money wisely. Hope my previous posts and this one points you to the why and how.

I don't need any more rationalization of why you won't do the above (I was there myself, after all... but without someone pointing the way...). I can understand that some of us have to learn things on our own.

But if you do decide to change your expectations of your first system, we are all here to help you make it as painless as possible.

Take care.