SSD + HDD combo in laptop

Will an SSD + HDD combo slow down the performance of a laptop in any noticeable way compared to system with just an SSD? This is assuming that the OS and all apps/games will be on the SSD, and the HDD will only be used for mass storage.

I know this is probably a dumb question but I can't help but feel that the load on the southbridge will be heavier in the combo situation. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid.

 

No, not really. Assuming that you're installing your OS and programs on the SSD, and leaving bulk data on the HDD, you shouldn't notice any subjective "slowdown" at all, let alone any non-trivial objective "slowdown". Opening documents, playing music, watching videos, etc. doesn't require the insane speeds that SSDs provide, so placing them on the HDD should not affect loading/saving them in a non-trivial way.

You might just be paranoid .

 

No, not a dumb question; though a discussion probably exists somewhere if you can find it.

Making an SSD the primary boot/system drive is an immediate unquestionable improvement regardless of any other drives present.
If access is requested/required from a present HDD there is a very small impact due to seek/read/write times which can be improved with a faster spin rate. If you have a heavy demanding workload, a secondary SSD should be a consideration.

Both machines in my signature started out with no SSDs, only HDDs, and both have permanently relocated ProgramData and User folders to the secondary drive. The one with an HDD is also the noisier now.

One thing is certain: you won't be disappointed from adding an SSD.

 

There is only one moment where you could feel a slight delay. If the HDD is set to spin down after some time if not in use, you will have a delay of a second or so when the HDD wakes up. It will not affect programs, OS, etc. only the files on the HDD. So for example, if you start playing some music, the first song may not start playing immediately, but the other will afterwards. You can of course set the drive to never spin down should you want to. The benefits of a SSD far outweigh that minor almost non-inconvenience should you leave the drive set to "sleep" when not in use.

Also, note that this isn't a particularity of a SSD + HDD combo, but of any multiple drive system.

also, depending on what is on the HDD, it may never spindown anyways.

 

Should've clarified that this is for a new laptop, so nothing has been installed yet. Originally I planned on only having a single 840 Pro 512GB SSD in the laptop. Then it dawned upon me that storing over 200GB of media (movies+music+documents) on the SSD seems like a total waste, plus the SSD would be at least 80% full when I finished transferring all the files over from my old laptop.

Adding a second HDD seemed like the most logical idea. But then I just couldn't stop wondering whether having a (relatively) much slower HDD would affect the performance of the SSD. I mean, the SATA controller on the mobo must be working harder and pulling more workload no?

On a side note, what are some of the complications associated with an SSD + HDD combo? Things lke pagefile, superfetch, prefetch and the like, I imagine since the OS will be on the SSD, all those will only pertain to the SSD, and not affect the HDD? And TRIM would work just fine? I guess basically I'm wondering how much I'll have to worry about having "comptabile" settings between both drives vs just having to worry about the SSD and not the HDD.

 

Beezow, reading through your last post I realized how much of those same concerns I (and probably many others) had when first started investigating SSD's, so I understand where your questions are coming from.

If you're using Windows 7 and above, the OS detects the SSD and applies the settings for them, it's seamless. If you get a Samsung 840 line SSD, it comes with software to further optimize the drive according to how you want to use it primarily.

You could look at this post http://forum.notebookreview.com/del...87529-m6600-reimaging-thread.html#post8833773 and go to the section "SSD Optimizations" to get an idea of the different settings.

There aren't any complications with a SSD + HDD combo, none. Your biggest decision is where to store your infrequently used files and how much you want to pay to store them.

 

I'm just gonna borrow this thread, whats the optimal combo or setup for OS, programs, games, and storage.. mSATA+SSD+HDD or SSD+HDD or a different setup?

 

With the size of the newer drives coming to market I'm beginning to question the need for mSATA except in chassis that are super thin or where the need to swap data drives is required, but others may have a different opinion.
An SSD + HDD combo is really great and less expensive if your tasks don't require anything faster. If ultimate fast and quiet is crucial then a SSD + SSD is the way to go.

 

Go big or go home: all SSDs.

Ok, on a more serious note, balance your storage needs with your budget. If the mSATA is on a SATA 6 Gbps port, it will make no practical difference. There might be a difference if you truly hammer the drive and if the controller has less channels populated compared to a 2.5" drive of the same capacity, but for normal use, you will see no difference.

If you need lots of storage, go with a HDD on the side, games will load faster on a SSD, but that's about it. OS and programs on the SSD of course.

 

beezow,

I wanted to mention something about the TRIM command if you're wondering why it has the ability to be turned off and how it coexists being on with a HDD present.
Some earlier SSDs didn't function properly with the command enabled hence the ability to disable it. HDDs don't accept the command so the OS doesn't send it.

 

Hey thanks for being so helpful rcb really appreciate it.

I've decided to not to have a second HDD for now. I have all my media files on my external HDD, so a second HDD would really just be for the convenience of having everything in the laptop. The SSD + SSD combo definitely sounds very enticing, and pretty much the only thing preventing me from going that route is the hole it'll put in my bank account. (although the illogical side of me keeps saying having dropped 3k+ on a laptop, what's another $200)

 

Glad to help. Enjoy your new machine!!!

BTW, if you haven't seen this already: Support and Q&A for Solid-State Drives - Engineering Windows 7 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

Optimal setup is for OS, games, application to go on an SSD. These things have load times, and will greatly benefit from SSD speeds.

Your bulk media storage (photos, videos, music, pr0n, etc) should go on your slower mechanical HDD. These things do not have load times, eat up a ton of space, and should therefore be on the slowest and cheapest storage you have. An MP3 or BluRay MKV rip will play back equivalently well regardless of whether it is on a fast SSD or slow mechanical HDD. If you're buying new hardware, you actually want to look for 5400rpm mechanical HDDs (not 7200rpm or hybrid hard drives). In general, a 5400rpm drive will be cooler, quieter, cheaper, give you more battery life, and give you higher maximum capacity than 7200rpm variants. These are all desirable qualities for a drive where speed doesn't matter.


As for connectivity... mSATA, SSD, HDD, etc... It really doesn't matter, as long as you can reach the ideal of SSD + HDD combo. If your laptop has an mSATA port, and you're buying new hardware, then definitely buy a 256GB mSATA SSD. The mSATA port is only ever going to be used for SSD storage, and isn't that much more expensive than the equivalent 2.5" SSD variant (about +$30 more). This will keep your 2.5" SATA drive bay free for whatever else you want to put in there (e.g. high-capacity mechanical HDD, an additional SSD, etc).

Short answer: No complications.

Long answer: No complications. I recommend doing a clean install of Windows 7 / 8 onto your new SSD once you get the parts. Windows 7 / 8 will detect that it is being installed on an SSD (by querying spindle speed = 0rpm), and configure itself for SSD operation. That will disable Disk Defragmenter, enable TRIM, and properly align the partitions to be most speed-efficient on an SSD. Things get a bit more complicated if you try and clone / image an existing Windows installation from mechanical HDD --> SSD.

Plus, you get to see how much faster Windows isntalls on your new hardware, compared to what you are used to on your old hardware. I'm a giant nerd, so I love installing Windows on new hardware for exactly this purpose.

As far as pagefile, superfetch, prefetch, etc.... don't worry about it, and don't change any settings. The reality is that once you put OS / games / applications on your SSD, things will run so fast that you'll never notice.

 

One more thing: how much free space should I leave on the SSD? Heard that anything over 80% full drastically reduces SSD reliability?

And if I'm using Windows 7, do I have to worry about over-provisioning as long as I leave around 20% free space? Actually let me back track, what does over-provisioning do exactly?

 

20% free space should be fine. That's about how much I leave on mine (or more).

 

20% free space is fine. Below that is fine... the only drawback is that writes become slower if you have less than 20% free.

Over-provisioning is just extra allocated memory blocks that is available for the drive to use (but not the user) for purposes of "background" operations. These include re-allocation of bad / faulty blocks, and wear-leveling. Wear leveling means that if you repeatedly delete / write data (e.g. a swap file), that constant re-write does not happen over the same NAND memory blocks and wear them out too fast. Wear-leveling will spread those multiple re-writes over multiple areas of the drive, so that one NAND memory block doesn't get worn out.

The SSDs you buy actually physically have memory in powers-of-2. 64GB, 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, etc.
The SSDs will only let you access a portion of that memory. 60GB, 120GB, 240GB, 500GB, etc.
The difference between the two numbers is the amount of space that the manufacturer reserved for over-provisioning.

 

So for Samsung SSDs, the over-provisioning that can be done in Magician is really just additional over-provisioning on top of what is already included from the factory settings right?

 

Calculates to about 2.3%. Probably need at least 5-7% extra if you're mostly using it for storage. Thing is: once it gets full you won't be doing much writing, there's no room.

But if I remember correctly, that was how you planned on using it anyway. So I think it's fine.

EDIT: That 2.3% is based on kent1146's method. Personally, I don't know, but I hear that's how it works for the non-pro version.

 

OK, let's see if I got this right.

Forget about factory over-provisioning for a minute. Let's say I set over-provisioning to 20%, and proceed to use up all the available space. Since 20% of the total available capacity had already been allocated for background operations, I would still be ok.

Alternatively, I could just not bother with over-provisioning and make sure to leave 20% of the space unused, and this would achieve more or less the same effect as 20% over-provisioning. Is my understanding correct?

 

It's preferable to keep that 20% unallocated to allow the controller and TRIM to do its business. You can always expand the OS partition into the unallocated space later if your needs change.

 

Difficult to write about this stuff without getting too technical.
Please read this, starting from the beginning if you have the time. It'll make it easier for you to let go of that space and enjoy your new SSD.
AnandTech | The SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ

 

By "keep that 20% unallocated", are you recommending to NOT over-provision 20% and instead just leave 20% free on the drive? Will read up on that article later.

 

Leaving free space on an SSD is NOT the same as leaving the same amount of space as 'unallocated' (I highly recommend to leave 30% 'unallocated' - or more - if you want the fastest, sustained (over time) performance from your SSD).


If you google my name and notebookreview, you'll find a few links on this forum which tells in more detail the 'why', but basically:

'unallocated' capacity allows the SSD's controller to have nand ready to be written to immediately (without the read/erase/write cycle penalty 'allocated' nand invokes after even minimal use) which not only speeds up the SSD's real world performance, but it also increases the life of the SSD by reducing WA (Write Amplification) by giving the TRIM and GC routines a chance to complete as efficiently as possible too.


Free space doesn't allow the same thing to happen because the controller doesn't know if the data written (to the whole SSD) is to be kept or not... until the GC routines kick in when you need to write to the drive and it does it's R/E/W cycle (which we see as a ssssslllllllloooooowwwwww and laggy drive).

 

I assure you, everyone here has your best interest at heart, and they want you to get the best out of your machine. Prefaced, ok?

Now I know, this could sound either funny or mean: they don't want to steal your Gigabytes away from you

Notice the double happy face?

Straight up: File hoarding can be a serious problem. I've been there. The best way to beat that monkey off your back is to go cold turkey. Become the anti-file. Take up gaming in lieu of movies and music; well maybe not the music. Sacrifice a little for a lot of gain.

Go unallocated. It's the new wave :hi2:

 

I just realized the solution to all of this: buy a second 500+ gig SSD. Problem solved.

Until reality hits me and I look at my wallet and the flaming hole that's still there from the laptop purchase.

 

Hello! Tell me what you need to install the software to improve the performance of SSD and HDD???? (IRST and ExpressCashe)???

 

In almost any modern Intel based platform; you want Intel RST driver version 12.9 at this time.

See:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=23496


Download the appropriate ZIP file (f6flpy-x64.zip for an 64bit based O/S) or (f6flpy-x86.zip for an 32bit based O/S) and extract it.


Go to Computer Management, Device Manager and then expand the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers section and select the SATA controller.

Right Click on that controller and select Update Driver Software. Choose Browse my Computer for Software, choose Let Me Pick, choose Have Disk and browse to the folder where you extracted the driver you just downloaded.

Select an inf file, click okay and okay. The system will want to reboot (possibly twice).


That is all you need to install. ExpressCache is not recommended (by me).

Make SURE that you have an Intel based chipset while following the above instructions. If you have an AMD based platform, you want the AMD Chipset drivers here.

See:
AMD Chipset Drivers


Good luck.

 

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спасибо