SSD Suggestions!

I have an Alienware M17X R4 with single 1TB HDD @5400 RPM drive. I need some more performance in terms of read and write and am looking to buy a SSD. I will be mainly installing the OS and applications on the SSD so as to increase the system response. When it comes to SSD, I am empty.

So any suggestions, how to find a suitable one, buying tips will be appreciated within a budget of approx $260.

Any suggestions related are welcome. Thank you.

 

What are the rest of the specs of your system?

What O/S are you using? (Win8x64 PRO highly recommended).

How much RAM do you have installed? (16GB RAM MINIMUM - 32GB not extreme (imo) if you have IB cpu).

What is the quality of that RAM? (You need minimum PC3 12800 - 1600MHz modules).


Have you done a clean install of the O/S? (Stock installs are usually filled with useless bloatware...).

Do you have the latest updates? (O/S and for your programs).

Do you have the latest drivers? (Storage (Intel RST drivers), video, network, audio and mouse/touchpad, etc.).

Have you defragged your HDD and properly partitioned it with a tool such as PerfectDisk Professional 12.5? (But yeah; the 5400 RPM HDD is still too slow of course - but proper setup/maintenance does make it feel more responsive).

Have you applied any 'tweaks' to your system? (Some may be tweaks you shouldn't have done...).


If all of the above 'pass' - and you still need more responsiveness, then sure, an SSD will give you a much more responsive setup.

But we still need to know what the main use of the system will be (i.e. your 'workflow') to be able to suggest a good match.


With a $260 budget you are well set for a quality SSD in the 240/256GB range. Out of this nominal capacity, you will have ~156GB available after the SSD is properly OP'ed and formatted. With this setup, you can expect the performance of the system to be very high and stable/sustainable indefinitely (during the lifecycle of the system).


So, what are the full specs and what is the normal workflow this system will be subjected to?


...

 

Here are my specs:
Alienware M17x R4
Windows 7 HP X64
8 GB @1600MHz
Core i7 3740QM
GTX 680M

Yes, Clean install of the Operating System
Yes, I have the latest updates for everything except for the GPU. It's a GTX 680M, I had to roll back because 320.18 had problem with the laptop.
Yes, all the drivers are also latest
I defrag it periodically but use the defragmenter which comes with the operating system
Hmm, all minor tweaks mostly for the appearance and themes stuff. But I do OC a bit while gaming. And no, I had'nt flashed my vBios.

The main workflow will be Gaming, Image and Video processing. Rest minor stuff.

I hope I have answered to all the questions.

 

Thats alot of questions, why not trust he know's what he's doing and offer some advice....

if he doesn't have an SSD or RAID what the hell would he be doing with an RST driver?

anyway.

As tilleroftheearth rightly suggests, your inline for a quaility 240-256gb SSD..... but I'm sure you know that already as it's kind of obvious.....

The Samsung 840 Pro floats in under budget at the upper 256gb level and offer impressive 540mb reads and 520mb writes as well as near best in class power sunsumption of sub 0.1w.

The Crucial M4 is a popular choice but if your looking for read AND write performance then the M4 is not so clever as it stumbles to around 260mb/s on writes

last month Mushkin discontinued the 480 GB Enhanced Chronos Deluxe which was nearly as quick or quicker than the Samsung 840 Pro, if you can find one, it should be around $345 which is fantastic value and really the next cheap step up from the 256gb without killing performance or buying an old drive with a slow controller.

have you considered a 64gb drive as a read/write cache?

You would just have to install it in your machine, and install intel RST and set the 64gb to the cache - enabling read and write caching - no reinstalling or anything required it will automatically start working, and achieves incredible results, especially at 64gb capacity which is the maximum per cache drive (you can have 2 x 64gb drives if you want but not 1x128gb, mismatched 1x16gb 2.5" and 1x64gb msata - anything goes but just 64gb per cache driver at the minute)

It will typically need about 8 to 16 gb to cache your OS and regular programs, the rest of the cache will mostly be devoted to write cache, and depending on how you set it, it will cache writes entirely to the SSD and only empty the cache when it needs more space to cache new files and is out of space, so if your working on a video edit, it will remain in the cache to both read and write, and will automatically be transfered to the HDD when your finished and are no longer editing it.

I'm personally going to move away from my 256gb Vertex 4 and have 2 msata slots and I will be fitting a 64gb cache in each running along side a 1tb 5400rpm drive for storage.

O and 8gb RAM is good for gaming, but not for video editing, you'd be better with 16gb, 32gb would likely be a bit extreme, it certainly wouldn't slow things down, but it's much less of a financial priority if you strapped for cash.

 

You can't go wrong with the Samsung 840 or 840 Pro. Take a look on Amazon.

 

By RST, you guys mean Rapid Storage Technology? If yes, I have the driver installed, It came with the laptop. Tried to know what the driver does and when I opened i thought it was gonna help boost the hard drive's performance which I necessarily needed.

I need to clarify something. Alienware M17x R4 has two hard disk bays right? One is already occupied and so I have one left. What are the 64 GB caches for then and sorry to ask - how can you place two? Are there any additional slots for those.
I want to tell you all that I am not looking for any additional storage with the SSD. All I want is blazing speed. My windows rating is just 5.9 even with all the top end hardwares. It didnt take long for me to find the performance lag was with the hard disk.
I now am acquired with half-knowledge of everything. Things just got worse.

What is the main difference between a SSD and cache? Like mentioned earlier, the sole purpose is to get better gaming experience. Also, I need some performance increase with the storage medium.

Yeah and regarding RAM, I noticed eventually. I ordered 2*4GB RAM. It should be on its way.

 

before we go any further.... increasing the speed of your storage will not get you any performance increase in terms of frames per second or anything, it won't make your graphcis card run faster or make your processor work better, you won't be able to run smoother or with better graphics detail. Increasing your storage speed will only reduce the time it takes to load the game or the map etc. once in game the storage is barely accessed at all.

if you want to improve the gaming performance then you need RAM with lower latencies or better speeds which should provide a small boost - what RAM do you have ??

Yes RST boost's speed but you need 2 hhd's in raid or a cache for it to really work.

It's your lucky day! because your just about to find out you have 3 storage slots on the R4 !! you have 2 of the standard 2.5" slots, and also hiding in there you have an mSATA port! see below for details

How to remove the mSATA SSD on the Alienware M17x R4 | Dell

If you want 100% performance, then you should be looking at getting a 2.5" SSD as your boot drive, but you will obviously have the hassle of keeping your larger files on the regular HDD and needing to swap between them and when your reading or writing to and from the HDD you slow back down to HDD speeds, so it's not 100% speed, 100% of the time.

The msata port was put there by Alienware specifically for Intel's RST, so if you can live with 95% of the performance of an SSD you can opt for an RST solution which unlike the above, will automatically manage what needs to be on the SSD and will dump the data to the HDD as and when it needs to - giving you MOST of the access times and pure read/write performance you are looking for without the hassle of having to either bump down to HDD speeds, or transfer any files about to free up storage.

If money where no object, I would have a 400+ gb SSD, but reality is with RST I can have performance so close - you could barely measure it with a stopwatch, AND I can 1000gb of storage AND I've spent 1/3rd of the money!

Now, I'm not sure, you might be able to have the best of both worlds! ie. fit a 256gb drive in the spare 2.5" bay, and the have a 64gb mSATA - and set RST to cache your primary 1TB drive with the 64gb mSATA - sadly I can't test this theory as my 2nd HDD bay for my P150SM isn't here yet and I don't have an Msata drive yet.... but I might just try this one myself ** although I suspect I could remove the 256gb Vertex 4 SSD and run the OS directly from the 1tb drive, and it will not actually be noticeably different at all.

 

Sir, you truly made my day! Hats off to you for letting me know about the mSATA port.

Lol, I wasn't expecting any increase in frame rate though. RAM is of 1600MHz.

It truly is efficient spending when you have the knowledge. Thanks to you obviously.
Since I wont be needing any extension in the storage, considering your good advice, I will go with the RST. It seems feasible and efficient.

Previously you were speaking of dual 64GB cache, can you please elaborate on that?

Also, is it possible to have both SSD and mSATA drive installed.

Thing I got from your previous post is that mSATA drive automatically decides the data which needs faster access and adjusts accordingly to our usage. That is simply brilliant. Just what I need.
So, I now have a single 1TB HDD, I simply need to add another cache drive (mSATA) right?

 

Why not?
We have 3 drives, lets stack 'em up. Although I say some stuff like that, I am jobless. Damn Economy!

 

Glad to be of service :thumbsup:

nothing to do with the msata (mSATA is just mini connector type, like mini USB for example is the same as regular USB)#

RST decides what needs to be cached, and will cache to any SATA drive connceted directly to the storage controller (ie, any sata or mSATA connected to a 6, 7 or 8 series intel PCH)

anyway....... yes, dual 64gb. One 64gb 2.5" SSD drive (no doubt the cheapest) and 1 mSATA 64gb drive.... likely to be fairly expensive due to it's miniature form!

why 64gb? because at the moment, that is the limit RST can handle per channel, you can attach a single 128gb drive, but RST will only use 64gb of it

If you want to experiment cheap, get an 8gb or 16gb 2.5" SSD second hand and put it in, enabling RST is simpy just selecting the drive you want to use as a cache in the RST menu - no additional drivers or reinstalling that's it's reboot your computer, and then reboot again, by the 2nd or 3rd time it will have learnt you behavior and it will say "I need this program, I need this game with that map, I'll get that music because he plays it alot.. etc. etc. etc." the more you use it, the faster it gets as it learns more and more.

Online benchmarks have proven that just 8gb of flash with intel RST will provide you with nearly 90% of the performance that a pure SSD offers, but at 8gb obviously it just caches your OS, and your browser, maybe some small programs. - mainly for me the point is, it is good enough, and will only get better, and I can just run from one single 1TB C:/ :thumbsup: and my RST will do the rest!

 

What about that theory of yours? If we be able to use 64GB of the mSATA as cache and 250 GB SSD for frequent programs and games. 1TB remains to do its old job.

Also, I notice that to be able to use mSATA as cache we need two HDD's?

 

be careful with the terminology! when you say "HDD" you mean "Storage Drives"

yes you need 2 "Storage Drives"

one is the slow HDD (your 1TB 5400rpm) , one is the cache drive (a 2.5" SSD, or maybe an mSATA - they both work the same)

msata drives are just normal "Storage Drives" - you don't have to run it as a flash, it can be uses a primary or secondary drive - what ever you want, just think of it like a normal 2.5" SSD - it is the same.

As for my theory - I don't know, I think it would work, but it would be expensive and maybe a bit pointless. The best setup I think for your machine would be 2 x 64gb SSD's (one 2.5" and one mSATA) both of them caching the 1TB drive.

I'd start with a 64gb SATA 2.5" SSD as it is easy to install and probably cheaper, then get another 64gb drive with mSATA type connector further down the line, if you wanted some more SPEED! - although it might not be noticeable speed lol as it should be extremely fast already

 

These are my test speeds.

Oh, so we can use either the SSD or the mSATA to cache the main drive which in this case is the 1TB @5400rpm. Hmm, Bottomline is that I should go for either of the fast drives and cache my main drive which will boost its speed.

I don't actually get it when you said at any instant it will be using only 64GB, so anything higher than 64GB will be giving you the same results as others. Please explain.

 

good speeds ............... for a HDD!

64gb is the maximum per sata connector that RST will use.

so 1x 2.5" 64gb sata + 1x mSATA 64gb = 128gb cache

but 1x 2.5" 512gb + 1x mSATA 480gb will still be 128gb cache, as it will only use 64gb per drive!

 

If I buy a 64GB SSD, will be able to use that entire 64GB considering the storage is flash or does it get rounded off to some lower memory?

So, It all comes to the amount of money you have. Both are SSD and both are fast. In my case, speed is directly proportional to the money I have. You sure were an eye-opener. I'm sure that you made me capable to help someone else on their quest to buying an SSD. :thumbsup:

Just a query: I have an internal SATA HDD from my desktop. Is there any way by which I can connect it to the laptop? I mean to ask the possibility of any adapters. It's a huge drive and laying waste.

P.S.: I was just reading your previous page posts, did you say P150SM? You are a lucky guy! So for which one did you go for 'the haswell processors or the new series GPU'?

 

BOTH! :thumbsup: the GTX 780m is a MONSTER and the 4700mq seems to constantly turbo to minimum of 3.2Ghz, its amazing.



lol 4k QD32 - my drive is over 300 times faster lol :laugh:

here's my bench, nothing special, the drive is running old firmware and is nearly full (these SSD's get slower as they fill up sometimes)

You can't fit the 3.5" IN the laptop no. you could buy an external caddy or NAS bay for it. I have one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004M180EG/ref=pe_217191_31005151_M3T1_dp_2 it sits in my cupboard and when I need it, I can plug in any 2.5" or 3.5" sata drive and get good transfer speeds as it has USB 3.0 ** it's great quality, but is pretty big, which when you think about it, it has to be - it swallows a 3.5" hard drive with ease

 

You might not have noticed that I edited my post, I was very late!

If I buy a 64GB SSD, will be able to use that entire 64GB considering the storage is flash or does it get rounded off to some lower memory?

 

The read write speeds are almost 5-6 times faster. Awesome!

 

no, 64GB will format to about 59-60GB


this will always be the case, as 64GB is refering to bytes, single bytes! you need 1024 bytes to make one KiloByte or KB, and 1024 KB to make one MB, and 1024 MB to make 1GB

so 64,000,000,000 bytes (advertised as 64GB) = 62,500,000 Kilobytes

62,500,000 Kilobytes = 61035 Megabytes

61035 Megabytes = 59.6 Gigabytes

and for refernce, a byte, is 8 bits...

and the reason is because storage is worked in powers of 2, so 2 to the power of 1 = 2, 2^2 = 4, 2^3 = 8, 2^4 = 16 so on and so on, up to 2^9 which is 512, and 2^10 which is 1024

** sorry I was also editing my post lol,


yeah 5-6 time nice, and look at the 4k 32qd (que depth)

 

So I looked, thats outrageous! I'll surely beat you after I get myself a SSD. Lol.
So, I have decided to go for the 128GB SSD. I get some additional space, don't I? (After caching, that is)
How about the brand Kingston? It's very popular in the place where I live. Also, can you suggest me some budget 128GB SSD Drives? (Best but not expensive)

 

These are the ones which are readily available for me to order. I'll be glad if you could choose one if you were me.

 

no don't get a single 128gb drive,

get 1x64gb 2.5"

anything bigger than 64gb is wasted

see here

http://i.stack.imgur.com/pP9t1.png
editing in progress ** eating

Your going to have some left over as you said, 50gb or something spare,

the only reason you might want to do this, is to have a small temporary drive for your media or CAD work, so you can dump 30-40gb of HD video on to it, and edit it, high speed loading and saving and then move it to your 1TB when your done.... or install 1 or 2 of your favorite games on it, which will give you guaranteed high speed access

^ now I say it, it makes more sense, yeah maybe 128gb is the way to go?? BUT can we guarantee that we can format and use that extra 50GB ?

 

I'm confused as to why you're suggesting an SSD cache in the first place. Why not just get a 240-256GB mSATA SSD, put the operating system on it, use the hard drive for file storage, and go from there? heck, the original poster could even get a 480GB M500 mSATA if he stretched his budget, and he would likely be able to fit his entire game collection on that.

 

The kingston V300 is a poor performer for writes (just 164mb/s)

The samsung 840 they have is NOT the PRO, so it is slower.... it is similar to the V300 - this is why they are both so cheap!

The other drives has little information available, the aDATA is possibly good, but'd need to know the full specs. You're better picking one on your own, but I will warn you to be careful, there is lot of name tricks, the Samsung 840, is very slow - nearly WORST in class, the 840 PRO is the best in class!!

Be careful !

You should be looking for reads and writes similar or better to mine, and be carefull often on the slower cheaper drives has good read speed but lower write speed - which will be important for video editing and CAD work

 

I installed the Samsung 840 500GB in my MacBook Pro, it flies. 278.00 on line from B & H B&H Photo Video Digital Cameras, Photography, Camcorders
Took ~ 10 minutes, depending on what you need to do to get to your HD. Also get the tools if you need them (~ 4.00 and you can get a kit to connect your old drive to transfer data/ clone the old HD. You will enjoy the difference.

 

his budget is $260 not $460

the reason for the cache is he does media and video editing, so a 240-256gb SSD would fill up rapidly, a secondary HDD could be used, but with ALL the draw backs of a HDD and it's speed......

whereas, using Intel RST with a single or dual 64gb cache will allow the machine to cache all its reads, and the vast majority of it writes with no need to mess about with managing dual storage drives or re installing windows.

Pros+

READ/WRITE cache, giving the whole system SSD speed performance with HDD like capacity
all automatically synced to the 1TB drive
no need to move files, or install programs to one drive or the other to manage space
no need to re-install windows
plug in, enable, and forget about - it just works by itself

Cons,

occasionally when reading a file that has not been read for a long time, the old HDD speed will return, but it will instantly cache this file, and then it will be accessible rapidly again.
cannot achieve SSD speed 100% of the time (but if you have a SSD + HDD then this is the same, but ALL reads and writes from the HDD are guaranteed to be slow!)

 

Thats exactly my thought. I thought of using the 64 GB for the cache and the remaining could be formatted to be used for some other purposes. Also, I got money for doing this only once. What I have decided is to go for the 256GB SSD and clone the C:\ partition alone on to the SSD. That way all my applications will load faster, I will get faster responses and also super boost boot time. I'll use the 1TB main drive for storage purposes alone, like for instance movies and other storage. I can also move the game which I play often from anf to the SSD, so that the game which I play the most will be on the SSD. I should be fair for me.

 

As the original poster which is me is currently jobless, hence comes a restraint called Budget. Thats why I would most probably going for the 256GB 2.5" SSD.

 

Yeah, I was reading the reviews about the models and then I saw the drives max read or write speed. Like you said, It's only around 150-200mb/s. Hell, that speeds are just about my present HDD's range. I will be very careful before I buy the drive.

 

Yes, I can get the software for cloning. How much did the drive cost you?

 

I am definitely going for the SSD. Either I will be cloning the C:\ partition alone (or) get a 64GB SSD 2.5" first for cahing and then maybe sometime in the future add another 64gb mSATA for dual cache.

 

Both are great options mate,

The 256gb clone give you maximum performance, with the hassle of a second drive for storage, reading/write editing files on this drive will be slow!

The 64gb or dual 64gb cache gives you a great balance of SSD speeds, where ALL files are cached, so editing/reading/writing a file to the HDD it will cached and then it will be SSD like speeds from then on.


For me I prefer the hassle free IntelRST cache, I also like the Seagate Momentus XT and WesterDigital SSHD ideas but they do not perform as well as IntelRST - and have fixed cache sizes, - they are however no more expensive than a regular 1TB laptop drive, and can also WITH a 256gb dedicated SSD so give further performance improvements - meaning you will lose less time when reading from the HDD - this is nice option.

Overall I think there is no wrong options here, just what suits you.