SSD Thread (Benchmarks, Brands, News, and Advice)

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you. You are using information that is known to be incorrect to judge whether your hardware is dependable or not. On the assumption that theres a tiny chance that it 'may' be correct. Even though the manufacturer will replace the drive with an equal or better one should it fail within 5 years or else put their business and their clients on the line along with yours.

This is called paranoia.

If you really are writing such a huge volume of data per day that you are concerned about drive life and the impact hardware failure will have on your service to your clients, you should be using enterprise class ssds.

 

Please note that I'm not picking on AS SSD benchmark; I just think that a simple file copy does in no way mimic a read/write/update/calculate/etc. operation of a PS or Windows (or any other) update process.

I agree about the PM55 problems too.

But, like I mentioned before; MSE scans with the proper 'tweaks' leave any mechanical HD in the dust.

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this Phil; just want others to know what I have already experienced in my usage pattern.

And, if others are also doing what I do - but with no problems - I would like to know!

 

Just what I wonted to say.

 

I got that. That's why I'm saying installing CS5 would work too, as a benchmark.

You keep comparing different brand laptops with different chipsets, CPUs and other parts and attribute all performance differences to the SSD/HDD. That's inaccurate. No more inaccurate comparisons from now on please.

The SSD is superior overall, unless there's something wrong with the system.

 

But not what I'm saying... sigh.

 

Well said. I was thinking the same thing actually. It's like driving a Ford F150 to haul a semi trailer around the United States and complaining that you have to replace the drivetrain and suspension every 150,000 miles, when you really need a semi tractor truck.

 

I actually responded to this very question - but the post had been deleted immediately (by a mod - not user error).

Short answer:

My usage is not extraordinary: I want a fast drive precisely because I can generate so much data in such a short time.

Marketing does not give a warning about my usage scenario, nor does it state that writing to the SSD at the levels I need to will reduce the life expectancy of the SSD. On the contrary: it is marketed as quite the opposite:

See:
Patriot Memory PI200GS25SSDR Solid State Drive 200 GB - Serial ATA/300 - Serial ATA -: Compare Prices, View Price History and Read Reviews at NexTag


As a SandForce drive, it is also marketed as superior even to some (older) SLC drives because of DuraClass technologies and its data compression ability that writes significantly less to the nand cells than what the raw data might suggest.

So, in short, I am not blindly buy/testing components in a haphazard way. I do have some method to my madness.

 

What I don't get is how you are writing 100gb per day to a drive that only has 200gb capacity. And how that is in any way ordinary.

 

And I'm still wondering how much did his SSD performance degrade...

CMD, ATTO, AS SSD still show good scores?

 

Correction: My Inferno has only 100GB capacity.

It is ordinary for the HD's I use: why not the fastest current storage components (SSD's)?

The way this is possible is because a lot of the files are temp in nature and involve not only Scratch Disk usage, but also 'preview files' in LR3, Bibble5, PS CS5, as well as Nikon Capture NX.

Also, as the final image files (jpegs, tiffs and psd's) are 'approved', they are copied off the drive to the network storage disks.

This is in addition to what the O/S requires of the storage system (the so-called 'host initiated' writes).

I won't mention how much the SSD performance degraded (post will simply be deleted again), but as to the 'scores' - when did they have anything to do with real life use?

If they did: launch times would be lowered by orders of magnitudes, not mere seconds (if we are to believe that the 4K Random R/W's is what makes SSD's so special).

 

I thought most manufacturer's spec'ed out GB/day would result in your SSD lasting X number of years? For example the Intel X25-M states:

Minimum Useful Life - 20GB of host writes/day = 5 years.

However, I do agree that SSD manufacturers offer sparse information and should at least blatantly show the critical information like 4k read/writes and minimum useful life at minimum. But even I wouldn't expect 100GB/day writes on a 200GB drive to be normal. It's truly a unique case. I would definitely entertain a server or enterprise type drive in that case, or stick with a traditional HDD if you need longevity over speed.

 

Intel has stated that they warranty the drive for 20GB/day - but they've stated that their G1/G2 drives can actually handle 5 times that: 100GB/day (the 80GB model, the 160GB version should be higher).

With SandForce stating that its write amplification is below 1 (writes less than the size of the data you're actually saving to the SSD):

See:
SandForce - Client SSD Processors


And Intel stating that their write amplification being around 20 times lower than 'traditional' SSD's at 1.1

See:
Intel's X25-M solid-state drive - The Tech Report - Page 1


The SandForce based Inferno seemed like a good fit.

If you look at the techreport article (second link) you can find the following quote:

"If you don't want to crunch through the math, Intel estimates that the 80GB X25-M will last for five years with "much greater than" 100GB of write-erase per day. That's a relatively long time for much more data than most folks are likely to write or erase on a daily basis."


So you can see where I was hooked with the marketing hype AND the initially positive experience I had with the Inferno before I had fully put it through its paces (before the return period had expired).

Hope this explains a little of where I'm coming from?

 

Do the tests on the same system/setup (HHD vs SSD) = wont get deleted

Do you realize why people run bench test and post here?

Because that will tell them if their SSD is in good shape/setup correctly (or equal to others who are getting good performance) and to stop blaming on their SSD and start looking for the real problem on their system.

Good luck

 

Yeah, I am looking forward to do an apples to apples comparision (as I stated in the post(s) that got deleted) soon. (I'm stuck with the Inferno anyway...).

Okay, so my benchmarks look good - even great for my Inferno 100GB SSD. Especially as I have applied the stamatisx and the JJB tweaks (found that both together give the biggest difference not only in 'scores' but also in increased 'snappiness' and in MSE full scans too).

So, why does right clicking on the recycle bin and selecting 'Open CCleaner' result in a 3 to 5 second pause? (Just now...).

 

Anything else you giving you slow response or just those 2?

PS: Do you still get this issues on a fresh install?

 

Exactly. If he was supplying any real data it wouldn't get deleted. He's been posting misleading claims about SSDs for a while now. See also here for more examples.

If he was really as dissatisfied with his SSD as he claims, he could easily have sold it for more than $130, which would give him a 500GB XT.

Any further discussion about Tilleroftheearth's bad system performance goes here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...erno-ssd-performs-bad.html?highlight=slow+ssd

No you did not mention it, which is the problem.

Please use this thread to discuss the issues further.

 

Checking around on the Intel site - has a new Tool Box (date of 9 Sep 2010) Updates to version 2.0. Couple of extra features when install it:
1. As expected same SSD Optimizer
2. (new) System Configuration Tuner - check your system configurations and tunes it for best results
3. (new) Secure Erase - Secure erase on SECONDARY SSDs (not a bootable one)
Installs right over the older version.

 

Just curious to see if others experience the same thing I do here...

When I upgraded my IRST from 10.0.0. 1026 to 10.0.0. 1043, I faced two issues:

1. Intel Toolbox 2.0 crashes (I can move my mouse, but that's the only thing I can do; my HDD's (SSD's) lights flash like crazy but I have to force shutdown or else, it's stucked there and there's nothing I can do...);

2. I lost 5 seconds of boot-time, it's taking 30 seconds to desktop while it was 25 before; this is a HUGE stepdown, boottime takes 20% more to complete...


Thus, me back on the 1026...


What about you ?

 

I'm using the IRST 10.0.0.1043 and my Intel Toolbox causes no problems and runs fine. I have the X25-M 80GB (gen. 2). Also, I'm using the latest version of the Toolbox. My firmware ver. is 02HD (32nm drive). SSDSA2M080G2GC.

 

Is the Vertex 2 a good SSD in everyone's opinion? I know in terms of performance it's fine, but what about reliability?

My Vertex 1 died a couple months after buying it (a couple hours before a take-home exam was due!), was that just a fluke? Is the Vertex 2 seeing high rates of failure?

 

I haven't seen any failures iirc. It uses the same NANDs as Intel G2, that may help reliability.

 

question regarding SSD upgrade:

what do people do with their normal HDDs that are built in?

heres my personal predicament

i have a 3 year old laptop, its showing its age and i figure within the next 6months-1year ill be buying new. but right now i want to buy a intel SSD to upgrade it. but the SSDs built into new laptops dont seem to be of the best quality, so i would want to just migrate my intel to the new one. but usually laptops dont come with restore disks, etc, so i'm wondering if ill even be able to successfully use my SSD in a new laptop, without buying my own copy of windows, yada yada

also what manufacturers use the good quality SSDs out of the box ?

 

@ mikew, you can always install Windows yourself using the serial key on the bottom of your laptop.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/win...-7-download-links-just-like-vista-before.html

Sony, Dell and Apple tend to use Samsung and Toshiba SSDs. Not the best performers but decent enough.

HP sometimes uses Intel SSDs.

 

thanks for that link! that will def be helpful

now what about the built in HDD that would come with a new laptop? ideally id rather save the $200 or whatever and not have them ship any HDD at all, but i havent seen any that offer that option..

 

I normally sell them or put them in a $10 enclosure so I have a nice external hard drive.

 

another good idea. that could replace my old external 80gb usb backup drive

 

The very first thing you need to do with the new laptop is create the recovery discs (at least the VAIO allows for that). You can then replace the HDD with the SSD and install the OS that way.

 

I've used Intel 80GB, Kingston 64GB, and OCZ Vertex 2 60GB, and the Vertex 2 is by far the quickest drive I've used to date. Even if a new laptop doesn't come with restore disks pretty much all of them let you create your own. Saves them some money from having to make it for you I guess.

And as already mentioned you can download a copy of windows for free and install using the product key that comes with the machine.

 

Just adding to what Phil and Anseio already said.

I made recovery discs immediately, rebooted and set boot priority so that dvd drive is first in the BIOS. Then I put recovery disc one into the drive, switched off my notebook and took out the toshiba hdd. I installed the ssd, switched on my computer and it booted from the recovery disk. I then let windows 7 partition the drive and install the OS.

The toshiba hdd is now in this delock eSATA enclosure where it requires only a single cable (provided) to power the drive off an eSATA/USB 2.0 combo port.

I use the ssd as a system/application drive and for things like bulk file copy, music, films, downloads, whatever goes on the external hdd. I have 2 of these currently for storage and backup purposes.

Whatever you do with the external hdd I recommend you keep it rather than give it away or sell it. As long as you have some plan to backup your data, you can always wipe it and put a fresh factory install back on it using recovery discs if you need to avail of the warranty at some point and send the whole laptop back to base.

 

How much longer before you swap out your ODD for the 2nd HDD? Then you can move even more write based processes from the SSD. My 2nd internal HDD contains my page file, indexing, temp and temp internet files, and all of my personal folders are redirected to it.

 

New OCZ Sandforce SSD: Onyx 2. Pricing below Agility 2 and Vertex 2 levels.

OCZ Onyx 2 SSD Announced | StorageReview.com

 

A question on this - was the SSD installed the same size as the HDD removed?

I know there is a problem when cloning different size drives, but this is the first I have read of this procedure, excellent idea by the way

Thanks, John

 

thanks for all the help guys

 

Nope. The hdd = 320gb 5400rpm Toshiba.
The ssd = 120gb OCZ Vertex 2E

However the recovery disc spanned 2 only 2x single layer dvds. Once installed it created 3 partitions:

1) System Reserved (24.1mb) - used to boot to command line and such in the event that you can run things if you have a drive with nothing on it.

2) Recovery (7gb) - this is basically the contents of the 2x recovery dvds that I made only stored on a hidden partition and allows you to recover to factory installation without recovery dvds. You should keep the recovery dvds though in case of total drive failure.

3) Local Disk (111.79gb) - This is the partition that Windows 7 was installed onto. The Windows 7 installation takes roughly 20gb to 26gb

so the complete process takes up about 32 to 36gb. Very few companies bundle installation cds with their notebooks these days but they often provide some utility that allows you to create your own recovery cds. Some like Dell and Sony also allow you to order recovery discs though you have to ask first.

An important distinction - the recovery discs install Windows 7 from scratch with all the vendor specific bloatware and as such restore the factory settings.

It is not the same as mounting a system image using a program like Acronis though you can do this too provided you create a boot cd/dvd that lets you enter Acronis' recovery space on startup. Your system image needs to be 4k aligned and I think there are tools available to do this, otherwise installing a non aligned system image to an ssd will result in pretty terrible performance. I'd say going the recovery disk is the easier route even if it is slower. If you do this immediately, you can then customize your Windows 7 and then make a system image with Acronis or whatever which will automatically be aligned and which you can mount at any time.

I almost never use my optical drive at the moment and probably will replace it with a hdd at some point or another ssd. However, I prefer to keep page file, indexing, windows temporary folders and browser cache on an ssd because these processes have highly random small read/write patterns. These are the kinds of read/write patterns that ssds are good at and hdds are not. I bought this ssd for speed so I'm not overly concerned about drive wear. As far as I'm concerned if it survives the warranty period and I get good use out of the drive, it was money well spent.

 

That's what I like to hear!

 

OCZ Onyx 2 with Sandforce controller will cost $189 for 120GB. Nice price.

In Europe 189 euro.

 

Phil, the price looks very nice.

I've noticed my Inferno is being sold 'while quantities last' so the new drives should be here soon.

However, did you notice this?

See:
Intel Postpones 25nm SSDs to February 2011


Hope when they are available, they have sufficent volume to service the demand.

 

Yes I noticed the news by Nordic Hardware saying that the G3 is delayed to Feb 2011. I'm still wondering if this is really true, I saw other sites saying that it was still Q4 2010. I hope Nordic Hardware was wrong...

IDF 2010: SandForce Using Intel 25nm MLC Flash On SSDs - SandForce SSDs Highlighted At IDF 2010 - Legit Reviews

We have a topic about it:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...s/519118-intel-g3-ssds-coming-feb-2011-a.html

 

I had a feeling this would happen.

 

For the past month I have been having an issue with my intel ssd G2 (80gb). For some reason, my notebook will hang on boot up. Windows 7 will need to correct the start up. After a couple of days later, the issue will come up again. I dont understand why this is happening.
I have reformat twice and I am still having this issues. I have tried M$ default drivers, and intel rst 9.6.4.100.2 driver.

Ran HD tune and was shocked to see the result of under Health tab. I also ran error scan (full) and got no errors. I download Intel ssd toolbox and ran the full diagnostic scan and my drive passed both test with no errors. My numbers look fine for CrystalDiskMark. Should I be concern about the Health status on hd tune? I had this drive since Jan of this year. Also, why does all ID section show unknown "attibute?"

 

Now we wait til dissectors reveal the actual differences between the difference lines.

 

Lower IOPS through different firmware and cheaper NAND. Source: OCZ Tony.
Technical Discussion OCZ Onyx 2 vs Vertex 2

And one year less warranty.

 

i would RMA the drive.. looks like its dying as even a reformat doesn't help..

 

thanks for the info. Cant believe my SSD only lasted 10 months.........

 

Try secure-erasing the drive before RMA'ing it. I don't think simply reformatting does much of anything on an SSD other than mark all cells for "program-erase" within that partition. Secure-erase (which can't be done on the boot drive or any drive that is partitioned) will actually empty all the NAND cells.

 

I think I will give that a shot. Will HDDErase work? With HDDErase I could create on a CD (bootable) and make sure that my SSD is switch to IDE instead of AHCI mode?

 

I wouldn't use any tools, utilities or applications designed to deal with HDDs -- a lot of them don't know how to deal with SSDs. Use the Intel Toolbox secure-erase utility. You'll have to delete all partitions on the drive first and then boot from another drive in the same computer and run the Toolbox from there. This won't work with the SSD in a USB external enclosure. The SSD has to be connected internally. I don't know if it will work in IDE mode... maybe. I've never done it myself.

 

Okay thanks will try it tonight

 

there is something wrong with my drive. Earlier, ran the intel toolbox (secure erase) after that I launch HD tune and it looked fine. After installing all my programs, and windows update I wanted to see the health status before I went to bed.....Guess its time to RMA it....

 

I wouldn't attach any meaning to programs like that.

IF your drive works fine it works fine, there's no need to RMA it. Especially if Intel toolbox says it's healthy.

And of course if you start having the same problems again then that is the time to RMA it.