SSD Thread (Benchmarks, Brands, News, and Advice)

unless you do lots of video editing, RAID(I assume 0 as 1 is too expensive) won't help much in actual performance.

 

In Europe(UK mainly) there are Samsung SSDs offered in eBay that don't support TRIM, mainly HP OEM SSDs. But I also saw Dell SSDs with a FW that didn't support TRIM.
I don't know if its possible to TRIM PM800 SSD after they were in RAID0. For the moment I know no tool which does this. You have to destroy the RAID and then you have no filesystem on this SSDs anymore. I think Secure Erase is the way to bring performance back.

 

I don't think you need special tool for TRIM under Windows 7(non-RAID). A quick format is all it needs.

 

No matter where it's sold, no matter who is the OEM/ODM (HP - Lenovo - Dell - Apple - You-name-it), as long as the Samsung PM800 is 0VBD1, (compared to OVBD 0) it is indeed TRIM enabled/capable.

Secure Erase is the LAST thing I'd do as I already bricked my Sammys paired in my M17X, see here for details...

Once a drive is unRAIDed, it has to be formatted (quick is better indeed) as the previous data were spread over the RAID array; therefore, it cannot be use/read until the drive is formated.

And if you have W7 installed somewhere and are able to give this guy a TRIM, well, there ya go.

That's what I did with my sets of RAIDed both Intels and Samsungs.

Actually, if you quick format, then, you don't indeed need to TRIM; however, since it's free and no harmful, why wouldn't you ?

 

Nice to hear that a quick format does the job. Makes it very easy for me to restore the performance of my RAID0 if I need to. Thank you both.

Regarding TRIM the ebay item
HP 577975-001 Samsung MMCRE28G5MXP 128Gb SSD Hard Drive bei eBay.de: Drives Storage (endet 20.01.11 15:23:56 MEZ)
is OVBH1 FW: VBM1AH1Q
Searching in the net shows it doesn't support TRIM. My knowledge is that up to now there's no upgrade from HP available to support TRIM.

 

You would still need to do an SE if you are the fortunate owner of Sandforce as TRIM in SF doesn't do much in terms of resetting its DuraWrite counter. Only SE can reset that.

 

I try to figure out how to accomplish this with quick format.
1. Boot a Live Windows7(WinRescuePE) and take images of all partitions on the RAID. I have 2.
2. Delete the RAID.
3. Change RAID to AHCI in BIOS.
4. Boot Live Windows 7(WinRescuePE) again, create one partition on each SSD, format quick. Is the reset for the flash cells immediately or have I to wait some time?
5. Change AHCI to RAID in BIOS and create the RAID again.
6. Boot Live Windows 7 again, create the partitions, format quick and restore the images.
Are you sure this does work? If I do a secure erase, it takes about 30 secs for one SSD. A quick format of a partition takes about 5 secs per partition. What is the reason for this difference in time?
If I secure erase, I have to partition and format only once. Maybe there are less writes? What is your opinion?
Do you have a link for me where the restore of the performance with TRIM is described?

 

both SE and TRIM are pretty fast operations. SE is kind of 'zap' everything. TRIM just pass a list of LBA to the controller and no actual operation is done, usually(it only update the controller's dirty list which you can view just like a FAT).

If you can affort SE, by all means do it but it is a very complex process for many others.

The net Erase cycle of a total quick format(TRIM) and SE is more or less the same, still need to erase each and every block for once.

I read on one of the reviewer's site that quick format can restore performance on TRIM enabled drives, except SF(which is a well known issue on OCZ forum). And from an programming perspective, there is no reason why it can't.

 

If I do a format quick there should not be a list of deleted LBA as the partition is virgin with only the MFT I assume. So it's up to the controller what he does with used cells/pages/blocks that are no longer needed? It seems to me that takes some time, but the format quick already had returned success. How can I be sure that all the controller stuff is done as I have to reboot to go further in the procedure. SE is straight forward, nothing is asychronous, one step follows the success of the previous step.

 

Yes, the whole thing about TRIM is allow the OS to pass the 'free' list to the controller. And since only Windows 7 support TRIM, that is the only system that would pass the TRIM list to the controller.

What the controller does it entirely up to it, SF does effectively nothing. The other brands based on what I read from the reviews return the performance but when the actual 'erase' is done, I have no idea.

There is a misconception that TRIM would take time. It may or may not. It is just a logicall command to the controller and can be completely ignored.

SE on the other hand must be honoured as it was initially designed as 'secure erase' to ensure all data stored is erased, it is a contract between an OS and the drive. SSD just piggyback on this command to do the 'erase'(so a block can be written to again).

EDIT:
This IMO is a design flaw or incomplete. There should be a command that is not 'secure erase' but a 'TRIM NOW' so everyone can have a standard way to restore/reset the whole SSD performance. Well, only Sandforce is the exception though. Asking a user to perform SE is IMO nonsense, should have a 'low level format' equivalent of HDD.

 

Hmmmm...

Who said OVBH1 FW: VBM1AH1Q is NOT TRIM capable ?


Again, as far as I know, any OVB* 1 is indeed TRIM enabled, would it be OEMed to Apple OVB A1, HP OVB H1, Dell OVB D1 or any other.

To the contrary, any Samsung OVB* 0 is not TRIM capable and, YES, you're right, there's no such tool from Samsung to update the F/W.

See those Sammys I sold here last year; they were all TRIM enabled, all OVBD 1...


What I did is this, it's quite long because I only have access to ONE computer with only TWO HDD's bays...

Removed my 2 RAIDed SSDs from the lappy;
Put another SSD inside (or any other drive, HDD or whatever...);
Installed W7 on it;
Put back one of my previously RAIDed SSD and quick format it, than manual TRIM;
Repeated the procedure with the second previously RAIDed SSD;
Removed the Drive where I just installed W7;
Put back my two previously RAIDed (and now quick formated and TRIMed) SSDs;
Re-RAID, re-Install W7...



At your marks...

Get set...

FORMAT YOUR WORLD TO YOUR CONVENIENCE !

 

For Trim support of VBM1AH1Q just google. I did the same and found my answers. I think on NBR there was also a discussion about this. Not all 0VB*1 support TRIM, at least not the ones from HP.
I also have only 2 internal HDD bays, otherwise RAID0 isn't possible. Furthermore BIOS has to support it. I have also an eSATA port and a corresponding enclosure, where I can put in the SSD to SE. When installed in the eSATA enclosure the SSD is "unfrozen", which is necessary for SE. For Live Boot I have an USB stick with WinRescuePE and PartedMagic(needed for SE) in multiboot. I'm taking my images with DriveSnapshot and restore them also with it. No need to install/reinstall Windows 7. I just restore the needed image. I'm done with this procedure within about 30 mins. Cheers.

 

ah, yes. eSATA is the easiest way for SE and if you can solve the live plug issue, SE is quite simple with a proper copy of linux live cd/usb.

 

Using a live Linux distro (ie Ubuntu) for secure erase you can override the frozen state by putting the laptop to sleep and then wake it up. No need to unplug the SSD or use an external enclosure. Fast and simple.

 

ah, thanks for the info.

 

Thank you for the tip. I tried with Ubuntu 10.4.1 and it works for me with a HP 8530w. Next I will test it with Ubuntu 10.10. Am I able to Secure Erase if the BIOS is configured with RAID and not AHCI?
+1 rep

 

I really don't know, I wish I had another X25-E to RAID them and tell you for sure. My speculation is that it won't be able to pass the secure erase command simultaneously to both drives but I could very possibly be wrong.

 

Although the system is configured for RAID, Ubuntu desn't see it so. I assume there is no driver for the Intel Raid Controller. Gparted sees the Partition unallocated but with the flag "Can't have a partition outside the disk", File System shows also unallocated, so I think its impossible to SE both drives simultaneously.
For the moment, I'm happy with the performance of my RAID0, but if I have to SE it I will try to do it without first deleting the RAID and setting AHCI in BIOS.
Thanks again for the Ubuntu trick.
Edit:
I was curious how SE works with my HP 8530w configured in RAID0 and Ubuntu 10.10. I booted Ubuntu from a USB stick, did the "Suspend" and after "Resume" I was able to SE both Samsung 470 SSDs one after the other. I didn't had to set AHCI in BIOS. After reboot I had to define the RAID0, create the partitions and do the restore. The MBR had also to be written, but maybe this depends on the image/restore software being used. Worked as charme. No need anymore to deinstall the SSDs from the internal bay, install them in an eSATA enclosure, reinstall them in the internal bays and changing BIOS settings.

 

Stamatisx.... You are a very smart man.

 

Ok, thanks for confirming

Thank you sir

 

What is an SSD controller? how do you know which ones good or which ones are bad? It doesnt seem to have any controllers listed on ads.. for example :
Newegg.com - Kingston SSDNow V Series SNV425-S2/128GB 2.5" 128GB SATA II Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Is this a good drive?

im deciding between this and a corsair. basically, i need prolonged battery life and no problems elsewhere and Im very happy.

Any help appreciated.

 

It's a Toshiba/JMicron controller. From StorageReview it's a bit heavy on the power draw, so the Corsair would probably be better in that respect. And while it's not very high end in terms of performance, the fact of the matter is that unless you really thrash a drive, you probably won't notice the difference in performance.

 

Thanks, that helps a lot!

 

You are not going to see much, if any, power savings between the two. If price is no object....the Corsair is the better choice.

 

But which Corsair?

 

Which Corsair fares under this drive...none. Lets face it...its a nice mid level drive.

 

That Kingston V series is the most power hungry drive out there by a long shot. Phil and other users have reported much shorter battery life compared to other ssd's. Corsair Nova and Force have much lower power consumption.

 

Take a look at the new Kingston V100 series - reduced power consumption and a handy desktop bundle kit includes the SSD, cloning software, cables (SATA data and power), and 3.5 hard-drive mounting brackets and hardware.

Newegg.com - Kingston SSDNow V100 Series SV100S2D/64GZ 2.5" 64GB SATA II Internal / External Solid State Drive (SSD)

 

hi i'm interested in getting a 256gb SSD drive for my m15x laptop but i have no clue about this area of technology.

power consumption is not really an issue as this computer stays on my desk most of the time.

i would profur not to have to pay through the roof for it if possible £500 would be the limit really

could anyone give me some surgestions or point me in the right direction

thanks

 

I think you can't go wrong with a Samsung 470 Series.
There are some OEM SSDs(Dell I assume) currently at eBay which are really cheap. Do a extended search with "Samsung 256GB" and you will find them.
Look in the item description for something like this

Model: MZ-5PA2560/0D1
Firmware: AXM06D1Q

 

Samsung 470 is a very good option. A 240GB Sandforce 1200 drive would also be good.

 

downside is if u get the OEM samsung SSD, u wont get the warranty from Samsung even the seller states it has warranty on it. I personally called samsung about warranty issue when I had samsung PM800 SSD bought from DELL. In addition, if u get the DELL Samsung OEM ssd directly, they only provides 1 year warranty, or 6 months.

 

An NBR staff member will explain what happened to Les in a separate thread; it came from an authority well above me.

That said, let's stay on topic in this thread. Thanks. No more discussion about Les' situation in this thread.

 

don't know why my post was deleted, but let's rewrite it.

i'm going to upgrade my dell xps 17 with a SSD, i have some doubts about:

what brand is better for reliabilty? Intel or OCZ ? who has the better controller? i read that sand force is faster but in real condition of everyday life, i suppose they are similar in terms of performance more or less...

I read in this forum some issues about SSD's freezes, and sincerly i wouldn't buy a thing that is the fastest today but tomorrow breaks.

Is 2nd generation of SSD reliable? or should i wait for the 3rd presented at CES?

I found some good discount for an OCZ Vertex2 60 gb, but i don't like buy new products that are still growing up...

 

If you want the most reliable stick with Intel.

 

I would say that Samsung is most reliable.
Intel had some bugs.

 

what bugs?

 

Yeah, that..

Intel is the most reliable drive i know.

 

I love my 160G2 in my laptop.

 

a claim that needs some information to support. what are you referring to ?

 

maybe he means the intel SSD doesnt have GC feature, so it will not be a good case for raid0? this is the only thing in my head. Otherwise, its perfect.

 

when is the new 22nm sandforce coming out? cant wait

 

I'm sure Tomy B. is saying that since Samsung has had no snafu's with Firmware, they are the 'better' bet.

New SandForce drives? 2nd Quarter of 2011.

Learn to wait...

 

intel fixed their bugs, and even delayed release of their product for half a year because of a bug. it's not "do you have bugs", but how you act on them.

that said, my first samsung died within the second vista installation. first vista installation failed, after the second try the disk died completely. nothing's without bugs..

 

I am not sure I can forgive Intel for A: Being so damn late. B. Being so unforthcoming about what they will EVENTUALLY announce and possibly ship sometime this decade!

And I do NOT consider one article, even if by Anand, to be a definitive anything.

Come on Intel, let's get rolling.

 

Still waiting ... Link please

 

I agree. Intel had a mayor bug in the beginning. I haven't seen those problems with Samsung. But Samsung 470 hasn't been out long enough to judge it's reliability.

Intel G2 is now a proven and reliable product.

 

My G2 has proven a sturdy workhorse. It has handled multiple reimages and OS reinstalls, due to me screwing one thing or another up. It's a performer and I'm thrilled with it. Just wish I could have afforded a larger one.

 

8 MB partition on G1 and two bugs with FW on G2.
First: when G2 come out if You set password in BIOS for HDD there was a possibility of loosing data
Second: FW with TRIM bricked a drive

Issues on G2 did get fixed, but it doesn't mean that there were no issues.

As davepermen said, nothing's without bugs!

 

What matters is manufactures learning from those bugs and make sure future products are safe.