The Notebook Review forums were hosted by TechTarget, who shut down them down on January 31, 2022. This static read-only archive was pulled by NBR forum users between January 20 and January 31, 2022, in an effort to make sure that the valuable technical information that had been posted on the forums is preserved. For current discussions, many NBR forum users moved over to NotebookTalk.net after the shutdown.
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
← Previous pageNext page →

    SSD Thread (Benchmarks, Brands, News, and Advice)

    Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Greg, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. DetlevCM

    DetlevCM Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,843
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Experimenting... or I roll back to 8.9.4.1004 ...

    Winsat disk is on strike...or maybe its because of vista... I can run individual winsat commands though...

    That get's max performance though I think...
    [​IMG]
     
    DetlevCM, Dec 25, 2009
    #2351
  2. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    vostro1400user, Dec 25, 2009
    #2352
  3. DetlevCM

    DetlevCM Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,843
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    205
    What am I looking at in the link?

    I don't want Windows 7 - its essentially the same as Vista (in its core components) and too much trouble for a lazy person like me on a Vaio :D

    I can get Win7 in English via MSDN-AA - that's running on my old laptop in fact...
     
    DetlevCM, Dec 25, 2009
    #2353
  4. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    seems faster than vista, and noticeable faster and less trouble than vista...
     
    vostro1400user, Dec 25, 2009
    #2354
  5. DetlevCM

    DetlevCM Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,843
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Vista isn't any trouble for me though.

    Boot times - Vista, recovery with some Sony bloat vs. Win7 is the same...

    No speed difference.

    Only way I will use Windows 7 is if I buy a new computer... my old laptop runs as a server and shares a printer, could run it on XP pro too... but Win7 is newer and works :)

    Vista is a perfectly good OS :)

    Ok, I don't get automatic TRIM, but its not much of a problem on the Intel drives anyway :)

    I survived through - hmm, 300GB or more of use without TRIM, so no worry.

    I think I'll got back to 8.9.4.1004 - makes me feel better too :)

    Thanks everybody :)

    PS: And sort out that "IDE reading" its not right ;) :)
     
    DetlevCM, Dec 25, 2009
    #2355
  6. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    vostro1400user, Dec 25, 2009
    #2356
  7. DetlevCM

    DetlevCM Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,843
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    205
    At the moment my boot times are a tad slow with the driver changes - generally I'm in Outlook in less than a minute though :)

    Best one I had was logged at 28 off seconds without Micrososft Security Essentials.

    With Microsoft Security Essentials I tend to be around 45-50 seconds.

    But honestly, do 15 seconds really matter to you?
    At this point I don't care - 1 minute vs. 2 minutes, yes, but not 15 seconds (theoretical) vs 30.


    Edit:
    And that IDE reading - why does it read iaStor on my laptop - OK, I'm in Vista, but it seems wrong.
     
    DetlevCM, Dec 25, 2009
    #2357
  8. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    yeah, that's very important for my system, when buggy trading software caused system crash, i need it reboot at shortest time to avoid big hassles.
     
    vostro1400user, Dec 25, 2009
    #2358
  9. DetlevCM

    DetlevCM Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,843
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Well, then get the customer support for your trading software and cause a bit of havoc and ask if they employ anybody competent.

    And if they don't, find some other software.

    For me Vista runs fine - so I have no reason to change to Windows7 which is the same at its core.
     
    DetlevCM, Dec 25, 2009
    #2359
  10. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205

    well, it just shows how much all the people crying around mlc shortliving are just paranoid freaks.

    my use of my 160gb intel grants me 300 years of usage, till the flash will be dead. now if i would use it in a huge multiuser database environment, it sure would be 10x, maybe even 100x as much usage. it would still last 3 years. enough for a short-cicled environment (in 3 years, the requirements for the database will have changed anyways, so replacement to a new, much better ssd by then will be useful in any way).

    not that a server uses an ssd 100x as much than a normal pc user. but even then, it would last long enough.

    and as mlc is actually rated for 10000 - 100000 writes, depending on the quality, they are sure able to pick the high quality one. so those 3 years would, again, be 30 years :)


    there's just one thing to learn about mlc: don't panik. you can't kill it before it got obsolente.
     
    davepermen, Dec 25, 2009
    #2360
  11. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    did you notice your 160G SMART info in 'power on hours' changes very slow?
     
    vostro1400user, Dec 25, 2009
    #2361
  12. darQ96

    darQ96 Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    168
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    31
    what are you trying to say ?
    that every ssd has bad controller ?!?!
    can't really see the point, couse, sammys ain't only ones that can go to reduced performance state, ALL ssd-s are ;)
    and, if what you are saying is true, than, every single ssd needs a new controller :eek:
    :D
     
    darQ96, Dec 25, 2009
    #2362
  13. LaptopGun

    LaptopGun Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    34
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Oh you're probably right... it's just really odd. I dunno. If I worried about killing MLC soon, I would have gotten a Vertex EX.

    Couldn't resist a little jab at Seagate given the rough year+ they had. Hell, at least they didn't treat their customers like Nvidia did.

    Controllers are important... just talk to OCZ about that.
     
    LaptopGun, Dec 25, 2009
    #2363
  14. hankaaron57

    hankaaron57 Go BIG or go HOME

    Reputations:
    534
    Messages:
    1,642
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Merry Christmas to everyone.

    Here's to hoping we get some price dips shortly after the New Years!
     
    hankaaron57, Dec 25, 2009
    #2364
  15. Cape Consultant

    Cape Consultant SSD User

    Reputations:
    153
    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Merry Christmas to all! I have been away, but while I was away, I went with my dad to Micro center and I did not buy my dream i7 parts but he got a 30GB Vertex SSD!

    He has a very specific use for it so I really think he did not need the Intel. He will use it to power these http://www.subliminaryartworks.com/ He uses a MAC and cloned his old drive to it and it popped up and booted right away. It is an external drive, so speed is not a factor here. Less moving parts is.

    Dave Permen I believe you would be very interested in my Dad's art. He actually has a piece in Switzerland I will find out where. It is a tech science museum I think. Worth a look around his site. The latest few pieces are not up yet.

    He did a piece for a disco at DisneyLand among other things. Anyways, was good to see an SSD work off the bat with a MAC and work well. Dave
     
    Cape Consultant, Dec 25, 2009
    #2365
  16. hankaaron57

    hankaaron57 Go BIG or go HOME

    Reputations:
    534
    Messages:
    1,642
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Dave - no proprietary MAC SSD's? I remember reading SSD's compatibility problems with macs in the last year or two, but I think they've been straightening those problems out. Good to hear its working for him, now I'll be curious to hear how it works in the LONG run for him, if you don't mind updating us.
     
    hankaaron57, Dec 26, 2009
    #2366
  17. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

    Reputations:
    5,398
    Messages:
    12,690
    Likes Received:
    2,717
    Trophy Points:
    631

    No, no bad controllers, just some better than others. :)

    Actually, the OCZ Vertex line don't get to a 'reduced state' far from their optimum 'clean' speeds anyway - they are the SSD's to need TRIM the least (see last SSD anthology by Anand).

    Every single SSD needs a new controller? Yes.

    One with SATA3 speeds built in! :D :p :D
     
    tilleroftheearth, Dec 26, 2009
    #2367
  18. Cape Consultant

    Cape Consultant SSD User

    Reputations:
    153
    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Sure Hank, will do. He has it on a USB off a MAC Mini early version. Will let you know how it works.

    Yeah, for awhile there was a 100 premium for a MAC SSD at least with one supplier, can remember the exact one. I cold not believe it at the time, Sheesh, is SATA not SATA ???

    Dave Permen, the piece is in Technorama in Wintertur, Switzerland, near Zurich.
     
    Cape Consultant, Dec 26, 2009
    #2368
  19. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

    Reputations:
    5,398
    Messages:
    12,690
    Likes Received:
    2,717
    Trophy Points:
    631
    Everyone,

    I posted here:
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5659530&postcount=2274

    how upgrading the Intel Rapid Storage Technology drivers improved my winsat disk scores on an individual basis (WEI overall did not change).

    You may be interested to read here:
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=445747

    What effect the disk cache settings had on performance also.

    What I'm asking my SSD using friends here is; do these disk cache settings affect your SSD the same as it affects my mechanical HD?

    Thanks for any input. :)

    Cheers!
     
    tilleroftheearth, Dec 26, 2009
    #2369
  20. Iceman101

    Iceman101 Notebook Enthusiast

    Reputations:
    0
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    I'm using a customized Sony Z VGN890FKB, Windows 7 and a Vertex 256GB (FW 1.4)
    I have not used the SSD intensely, or done any tweaks apart from disabling disk defragmenter and having disabled page file size (virtual memory) as I got 6GB of RAM.

    When I first bought it the Windows Experience Index showed 7.3, and after 2 months of usage, this is now down by 14 to 5.9!!!!! :eek: This is both in SPEED and STAMINA mode.

    -Anybody know what could be happening? or refer me to the appropriate thread, I've been looking myself, I'm not exactly sure what to do.

    These are my first benchmarking results (2 days ago):

    [​IMG]
     
    Iceman101, Dec 26, 2009
    #2370
  21. sgilmore62

    sgilmore62 uber doomer

    Reputations:
    356
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Try running winsat disk from an elevated command prompt -- Windows 7 WEI disk score has added some responsiveness tests. It is probably capping your score at 5.9 because of high latency in one or more of the tests. Have you considered the GC FW instead of TRIM?
     
    sgilmore62, Dec 26, 2009
    #2371
  22. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2372
  23. Phil

    Phil Retired

    Reputations:
    4,415
    Messages:
    17,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    455
    The manual Trim did not change anything.

    How do I install the IRST?

    I tried manually updating the SATA controller driver but that did not work.
     
    Phil, Dec 26, 2009
    #2373
  24. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2374
  25. DetlevCM

    DetlevCM Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,843
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    205
    DetlevCM, Dec 26, 2009
    #2375
  26. sgilmore62

    sgilmore62 uber doomer

    Reputations:
    356
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    sgilmore62, Dec 26, 2009
    #2376
  27. darQ96

    darQ96 Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    168
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    31
    so not true, afaik, vertexes are ssd-s that are most degradeable compared to others, latest fw seam to fix that, but at cost of r/w ;)
     
    darQ96, Dec 26, 2009
    #2377
  28. Phil

    Phil Retired

    Reputations:
    4,415
    Messages:
    17,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    455
    Phil, Dec 26, 2009
    #2378
  29. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    thanks, this version looks better:
     

    Attached Files:

    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2379
  30. eYe-I-aïe...

    eYe-I-aïe... Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    730
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Merry Christmas 2U2 !

    Hummm....
    quick question....

    I thought ITGC was actually a process of DELETING data marked as to be deleted but not done yet...

    Unless I missed something...

    Therefore, DELETING is NOT WRITING....

    Unless I missed something...
    Unless we consider deleting = writing

    But whatever you choose, isn't TRIM the same thing, deleting data (on the fly or not, it makes not difference how long the deletation happens after the writes occured)...?

    In which case, TRIM and ITGC either write or not, but are the same process, deleting data no longer valid but still physically present on the cells, which, at the end of the day, result in the same thing, same number of writes...

    Might be too sleepy here, but I am seriously :confused:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2015
    eYe-I-aïe..., Dec 26, 2009
    #2380
  31. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    jup, around 40hours so far. unsure why.
     
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2381
  32. sgilmore62

    sgilmore62 uber doomer

    Reputations:
    356
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    AS SSD Benchmark scores are heavily weighted in favor of 4k and queue depth 64 4k reads and writes. The over emphasis on these measurements goes back to the days prior to GC and TRIM. If a drive doesn't have GC or TRIM it quickly gets filled up with data regardless of how much free space the OS shows. Once the drive is filled up with data that only the controller sees, it has to perform an erase everytime a write is made. Eventually all writes would become small and random so the SSD with the best small random write performance is the best drive. GC and TRIM changes that metric -- if performance can be maintained with GC and TRIM how much 4k random write performance is overkill?

    I like winsat disk in Windows 7 because it puts most of its score weighting on responsiveness. While AS SSD benchmarks access time, it isn't even included in the score.
     
    sgilmore62, Dec 26, 2009
    #2382
  33. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    i've been on that webpage before :) nice stuff :) will be, most likely, at the verkehrshaus, or at the.. heureka? or how that got called. we have two big scientific-based museums in switzerland. one about science, the other about evolution of traffic (but it has much more)
     
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2383
  34. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    while deleting has to do with writing, it doesn't matter WHEN. if a tool makes it more early, it just means speed gains. so yes, the same number of writes. it just makes them happen more early
     
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2384
  35. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    i can't update my rapid storage drivers. i have the older ones installed, can't install the newer ones. it always tells me, i'm up to date.
     
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2385
  36. eYe-I-aïe...

    eYe-I-aïe... Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    730
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Phew, feel better now, was feeling retarded :p

    So, Tiller, your theory just got bumped, wanna try a second guess? ;)
     
    eYe-I-aïe..., Dec 26, 2009
    #2386
  37. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2387
  38. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    haha :)

    his theory gives is not 100% wrong, though. due to the fact that the ssd gets more time to spare on optimizing, and not just last-second-that-should-be-clean-we-have-to-write-data, it can organize data a bit more intelligent, and thus create some additional writes etc.

    but mostly, it's just a shifting of WHEN what happens. not how much, not if, nothing of that kind.
     
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2388
  39. DetlevCM

    DetlevCM Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,843
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    205
    If you unistall the ones you have then you'll fall back to the Windows drivers...
    Then you should be able to install the newer ones.

    Or install them via the device manager.
     
    DetlevCM, Dec 26, 2009
    #2389
  40. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    WEI offers 7.8 to x-25m G2 but only 7.4 to P256, not fair?
     

    Attached Files:

    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2390
  41. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2391
  42. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    choose the 4 port one...
     
    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2392
  43. DetlevCM

    DetlevCM Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,843
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Just click OK/Instal...
     
    DetlevCM, Dec 26, 2009
    #2393
  44. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    --------------------------------------------------
    CrystalDiskMark 2.2 (C) 2007-2008 hiyohiyo
    Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
    --------------------------------------------------

    Sequential Read : 224.868 MB/s
    Sequential Write : 72.385 MB/s
    Random Read 512KB : 183.445 MB/s
    Random Write 512KB : 73.614 MB/s
    Random Read 4KB : 12.614 MB/s
    Random Write 4KB : 29.572 MB/s

    Test Size : 100 MB
    Date : 2009/12/26 16:13:01



    i clicked series 6. without a reason. i liked the bigger number :)
     
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2394
  45. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2395
  46. sgilmore62

    sgilmore62 uber doomer

    Reputations:
    356
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Show us a benchmark of the winsat disk and we will see what the difference is. Besides, i didn't say AS SSD Benchmark wasn't fair, sheesh, it measures every SSD the same way. I said that it's score is heavily weighted toward small random writes and suggested that metric may no longer be as important now that SSD's have TRIM and GC.
     
    sgilmore62, Dec 26, 2009
    #2396
  47. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    see attached G2 winsat:
     

    Attached Files:

    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2397
  48. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    vostro:

    AS SSD Benchmark 1.4.3645.3568
    ------------------------------
    Name: INTEL SSDSA1MH160G1GN
    Firmware: 045C
    Controller: iaStor
    Offset: 103424 K - OK
    Größe: 149.05 GB
    Datum: 26.12.2009 16:22:34
    ------------------------------
    Sequentiell:
    ------------------------------
    Lesen: 213.99 MB/s
    Schreiben: 67.22 MB/s
    ------------------------------
    4K:
    ------------------------------
    Lesen: 11.75 MB/s
    Schreiben: 26.66 MB/s
    ------------------------------
    4K-64Threads:
    ------------------------------
    Lesen: 126.95 MB/s
    Schreiben: 48.22 MB/s
    ------------------------------
    Zugriffszeiten:
    ------------------------------
    Lesen: 0.240 ms
    Schreiben: 0.157 ms
    ------------------------------
    Score:
    ------------------------------
    Lesen: 160
    Schreiben: 82
    Gesamt: 320
    ------------------------------
     
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2398
  49. vostro1400user

    vostro1400user Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    202
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    55
    not bad for G1, how is that G2? i can never get that high score in author's page.
     
    vostro1400user, Dec 26, 2009
    #2399
  50. davepermen

    davepermen Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    2,972
    Messages:
    7,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    205
    g2 is not yet installed, have some hw issues with hy home server, so i can't restore my system to the new disk..

    it looks like the mainboard is dead of my home server :(
     
    davepermen, Dec 26, 2009
    #2400
← Previous pageNext page →