Samsung SM961 NVMe Driver

I got this from a post in the OC Forums.

ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp78001-78500/sp78112.html

TITLE: Samsung NVMe Driver
VERSION: 2.4.7.0 REV: A PASS: 1

DEVICES SUPPORTED:
SM951
SM961
SM961 SED
PM961

ENHANCEMENTS:
Adds support for SM961, SM961 SED and PM961

Source: http://www.win-raid.com/t29f25-Recommended-AHCI-RAID-and-NVMe-Drivers-32.html#msg32649

 

@tilleroftheearth @Cloudfire @Mr. Fox @Papusan @bloodhawk @ssj92 @GTVEVO @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER

Very disappointing benchmarks for the SM961 vs the older 950 Pro.

I was having my hopes up high as I ordered a new laptop with 2x SM961 1TB to replace my older laptop which had 2x 950 PRO

Seems like it's just a capacity upgrade but not performance update

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-sm961-ssd-256gb-512gb,4621.html

 

If the speeds are the same, it may have something to do with the artificial cap on read/write speeds that Intel has imposed on NVMe. They're capped and to the best of my knowledge they were already running at the maximum limit allowed.

 

tbh. you should have gone for cheaper 2 x 1TB m.2 SSD's if you wanted them for storage mostly. Or 1 x 961 and 1 x X400 or something. Specially since using the 961's in RAID is just pointless.

But on the other hand it is rather disappointing to see that there is not much performance gain. I do remember seeing benchmarks that Meaker posted, and the drives seem to be way faster than the 950 Pro when used in the DM3. Im not sure if it was the 961 or the OEM version.

 

The SM961 IS the OEM version. yeah RAID just adds more sequential speeds at the expense of increased latency

 

Thing with the 961's is that even a single one is going to max out the bandwidth on the DM3, so RAID wont do anything.

 

The nice thing about RAID0 is having a huge data storage volume. SSD RAID0 is great if you want to have a huge game library downloaded onto one volume. Two 2TB HDD or two 1TB SSD in RAID0 is better (more organized) than breaking things up and scattering crap across multiple volumes. Using separate drives is good for dissimilar types of data. I keep photos, files, drivers, software download and other archived stuff on mechanical HDD and use the data SSD for games for improved performance.

 

But aren't you going to be wasting literally 1tb of ssd space if you RAID0, the 961s ?
From what I observed on my friends DM3, there is barely any gain to justify the cost of using 2 x 961s in RAID0. Might as well get 2 x 1tb x400's and use them in RAID0, and you will have a big chunk of change left. With that much money saved, might as well setup a beefy NAS server.

 

Oh yeah... I absolutely agree with that rationale. That's a no-brainer to me.

NVMe is a waste of money as far as I am concerned. I am biased, but even aside from the bias, I just don't like spending a ton of money on low capacity grossly overpriced drives just so I have nice looking SSD benchmark scores. While I do like the NVMe benchmarks, they're basically all the same and my overall computing experience is no better than running ordinary SATA SSD. You either have NVMe or you don't. Kind of like having a locked CPU core ratio... all you can expect is belly-button results. If NVMe made all of my other (CPU and GPU) benchmark scores better I might consider spending more, but the low capacity/high price part is a tough pill for me to swallow... very poor value from my perspective.

 

@Phoenix

 

Oh I'm on RAID 0 on my 2 512GB 950 PROs now just for that. I hate having a gazillion drive letters to manage.

but with 1 TB each, here is what I will do:

1st SM961 = c: 100GB (OS) / D: 800 GB (Data includes steam, software EXE setups, ISOs, OneDrive folder with docs, music, pics) / 100GB: Overprovisioning
2nd SM961 = e: 900 GB (Series videos including TV shows, comedy, etc)
1st+2nd HDD (Spanned drive) = f: 4TB (Movies)

That way I won't have to RAID yet get the combined storage of the 2TB HDDs. You never wanna create a spanned drive out of SSDs as they lose the TRIM functionality according to the Pros on OC Forums

@tilleroftheearth

 

RAID 0 doesn't waste any space, you are just combining the storage space into one + having higher sequential and 4KQ32 speed which doesn't really matter in my usage scenarios, I only care about 4K Random Read/Write speeds which is what most users will get the snappiness factor from. Sequential write/read are for huge files ideal for people who deal with video editing or large database files.

RAID 1 is the one that wastes space as it keeps the other SSD for redundancy/backup so if one drive fails, you don't lose your data but the chances of an SSD failing are very slim

 

modern ssd still need overprof?

how much do I need on my 850 evo?

 

I should have put it this way, with RAID0 using 961's , you loose a lot of reliability and ease of use for none to minimal gain in performance.
It will be almost a $800 waste, with the risk of the array going bad because of any tweaking.
I definitely hate a lot of drives as well, but my line of work has pushed me to get used to it. XD
At work I have to deal with 10 different storage locations.
At home I have 4 drivers in the system, with 2tb split up into 2 partitions and then a 4 HDD (4tb Each) NAS hooked up over USB 3.

 

That's why I love the idea of spanned drives (works great on HDDs), you get the combined storage of both drives. I need one large 4TB partition due to how big my videos library is and I don't like splitting them into multiple drives

 

@tilleroftheearth @Cloudfire @Mr. Fox @bloodhawk

Sean Webster just replied to me on the OC Forums, he advised me to get the 2TB 960 Pro, check the review: http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/samsung-960-pro-m-2-nvme-ssd-review-2tb/

 

Even though its expensive, seems to be so much of a better value for money than the 961 1TB.

 

dude look at the 4K speeds, that's insane!

 

latest SSD Benchmark results

 

I see you will create a smal c: 100GB (OS). I expect you have seen this...
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/gears-of-war-4.796887/page-5#post-10369045

 

My games are all installed on D:

So 100GB for the OS is more than enough I only have like 50GB used with all my apps installed thanks to disabling the hibernation file

About that game, do you think I lost my mind to install a game from Micro$h4ft ?

Never had a problem with Steam or Origin games installed on D:

I format a lot so copying the files to C: over and over again after formatting will kill my SSD quickly as I have around 120GB of games. no thank you

 

Wow. $1300 for a 2TB NVMe SSD? Everyone is free to spend their money as they see fit. I will only say that I refuse to pay that much for any drive, of any capacity or speed. Even if it had a lifetime no-questions-asked replacement warranty that's still way too expensive, LOL. I would not be able to reconcile the benefits with the cost. All of them (all capacities) are ludicrously overpriced. I will wait for NVMe prices to drop until they match SATA SSD prices.

 

Damn straight, unless that drive helps me "incredibly" with my work, no freaking way am i going to spend that much money just for 2TB of storage.

 

Well the 1TB version now costs what my Plextor 512GB costed almost 2 years ago.The plextor isn't even nvme! So the 960 PRO is about 7 times faster than my ssd and twice the capacity for the same price. But eh... I'll wait for X-Point to arrive and hopefully give samsung some competition so prices drop to sata levels.

 

It's 1100 GBP here in the UK.. That is literally the cost of the desktop I got.. Jokes aside, let me be blunt, you have to be total retard to pay that much for a drive.. Or have more money then brains... M.2 is pretty overpriced but this is in another league... No offence intended, but this price is just beyond absurd.. I thought the 2TB 2.5" SATA drives were absurdly priced but this is totally fail..

But hey if its your money and you want to burn it, who's to stop you?

 

no you're right. I'll wait for them to drop in price. No rush here as I can just use my current 950 PRO 512GB SSDs

 

And 950 Pro is still a good NVMe SSD, if you favor such SSD

 

Well, there's really no reason for the NVMe pricing to be dramatically different than M.2 SATA pricing. The interface is different, but if you look at what is on their PCB, there is not enough difference between them to provide a good rationale for them charging such an exorbitant difference in price. They're taking advantage of consumers that are willing to blow money out of their rectum just to say they have the latest tech.

And, yes... @Papusan and @Phoenix are correct that 950 Pro is a really great product. The only problem is that the price sucks massively.

Maybe they watched how badly everyone was gouged on Pascal mobile pricing and said, "Hey, let's do that to our customers as well." LOL

 

unless you do video edit, the nvme ssd is more of a novelty than anything

 

If you need more storage space for videos etc can I advise you of something? I bought a pre built HP Microserver and put 4 4TB HDDS.. It cost me literally £500... That's probably a much better choice than buying one.of these SSDs..

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

TomJGX, saving $$$ is cool. Spending it wisely is even better $$$$$ (NAS baby, NAS).

See:
https://www.amazon.com/QNAP-TVS-EC1080-E3-32G-US-10-Bay-version/dp/B00R59YG54

 

Tiller really?

My microserver is like £120 after £55 cashback lol: https://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers/819185-421

I got this exact model when I got mine..

 

which model is this?

 

See my above post: https://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers/819185-421

It's a Hp Gen8 Microserver.... Got the exact same one from the above website..

 

Lol... Yeah, really.

No doubt that that is great bang for the buck, but my 'digital notebook' has more power than that system.

It isn't (just) the hardware (in the link above), it's the O/S. QNAP QTS (4.22, currently) is what makes a 'real' NAS indispensable for me.

Time is money. Having limited (everything) and saving a few $$$$ vs. spending 12x and getting 'everything' like the link above shows is not about showing off or spending foolishly.

Quite the contrary in fact. When you want to 'touch' (setup) once and rely on it for the next decade or so.

HP, Dell, even lower end IBM 'servers' are not in that league for my uses.

VM's, VPN, automatic and reliable backup (to other, multiple, NAS') not to mention the shear performance over a microserver is far more important than trying to save mere $$$$ (when the data is worth it, of course).

 

Hmmm I was thinking of getting a Samsung 960 PRO/SM961 for the OS since the 4k random speeds seem a lot higher than 950 PRO, but those high 4k speeds are at higher queue depths. Probably not worth it for regular consumer???

@Phoenix - copied your signature

 

I have a similar server, with 2 x 2TB AND 2 X 4TB DRIVES.
Gotta freaking delete my old simulation caches.
This thing barely costed $400.

 

Since this is a driver discussion, here's a driver question. I installed a PM961 in my Alienware 17 and installed windows 10 on it (I did not clone an existing drive). I was able to download and run the sp78112 file and generate the driver directory and drivers. However, the instructions say to go into device manager and update the Samsung NVMe Controller in the storage controllers group. However, the only thing I find in Storage Controllers is the Microsoft Storage Spaces Controller and the Intel Chipset SATA RAID Controller. I assume that the Microsoft Storage Spaces controller is a generic driver that is controlling the PM961, but it won't let me update that with the samsung driver. How do I get Windows 10 to recognize the PM961 as a Samsung NVMe Controller? (The NVME Samsung MZVLW256 is the only device under Disk Drives)

 

OK, so I figured it out. It's the RAID controller. In BIOS, you need to switch from RAID to AHCI.

To do this, you need to boot into safe mode and go into BIOS to switch from RAID to AHCI just before coming up in safe mode.

Go into settings->Update & Security->Recovery(on left)
Under Advanced Startup, click Restart Now.
When you come back up into the Advanced startup screen, click Troubleshoot -> Advanced options -> Startup Settings -> and Restart

This will reboot. As soon as you see your splash screen hit F12 to get into the Boot menu (or whatever your system uses), and go into Settings (Bios) and under Advanced (for Alienware/Dell) change from RAID to AHCI, and save changes and continue booting. Now you'll enter into a list of startup options. Choose safe mode and continue booting. Go into Device manager and under Storage controllers, you should now see the Standard NVM Express controller. If you don't, I don't know what to tell you. But that is the device that you will update with the Samsung NVME driver (or intel, if you are installing an Intel SSD).

Here are the Crystal Diskmark and AS SSD Benchmark results for RAID, the default NVM Express controller and two Samsung drivers.

Initial results with RAID after fresh Windows 10 Install:


Results with Standard NVM Express Controller:


Results with Samsung 2.4.7.0 driver dated 8/6/2016:


Finally, results with most recent Samsung driver 2.0.0.1607 dated 10/10/2016:


It doesn't seem to boot any faster with the new Samsung driver, but once up it is definitely a little snappier, which is odd, because read times didn't change too much.

[EDIT: switch to jpg images for benchmark results]

 

Could you re-attach the last two images to the post? They aren't showing up. Ty.

 

They'll show up. Sometimes I don't see any of them, sometimes all of them, sometime I don't see the first image. I do see them all in Tapatalk, though. I may change them to jpg and reattach them and see if that helps. The are currently .png files.

What bothered me is that Crystal Diskmark didn't show huge variation from run to run in RAID mode, generic NVMe under AHCI or with the two Samsung drivers. AS SSD, on the other hand, showed a big difference in 4K write and write access time (both were a big improvement with the Samsung drivers). I'm not really sure why. Makes me wonder about the validity of these benchmarks, or at least how they apply to real world applications. Also, now that I'm using the Samsung drivers, my real world observation is that apps start a little faster and files are read a little quicker. Although both showed about a 15-20% improvement in 4k Read (AS SSD) or 4KQ32T1 Read (CDM), and that is probably consistent with my real world observation).

And now that I've identified that it was a RAID vs AHCI issue, I see that other people have had issues as well. And I think I understand why. I have found a number of discussions where it is recommended that if you do a clean install of the OS in the RAID configuration, you don't need to install a driver on your OS recovery/installation media to install to an NVMe drive. So i did a clean install in RAID mode. In RAID mode, Windows 10 will interface with the RAID controller and the RAID controller hides the NVMe drive (or at least the controller) from the OS to some extent.

Had I done the install in AHCI mode, I would have to add the NVMe driver to the installation media (although I found in some instances people have reported that their installation media did recognize the NVMe controller and installed the generic driver - Maybe that's certain versions of Win 10, or possible new with the "Anniversary Edition").

I just have a 256GB PM961 for now. I got it pretty cheap and that should hold me until the new year when I can afford/justify a 1TB NVMe drive. I also have a 2.5" 1TB WD Blue SSD that I had used before getting the PM961. The 2.5" SSD was a huge improvement over the 1TB HGST 7200RPM drive that came with the laptop. The PM961 is an improvement over the 2.5" SSD, although not as big an improvement as the WD SSD was over the HGST. Now that I have this NVMe stuff sorted, I'll add the WD SSD back into the mix as a data drive.

 

Could you post some bench results (with PM961)?

Wysłane z mojego MI 5 przy użyciu Tapatalka

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/samsung-sm961-nvme-driver.797206/page-4#post-10399653

I will see if I can get the images to appear correctly in the post above.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/samsung-sm961-nvme-driver.797206/page-4#post-10399653 has been updated.

 

Now that I could see the images, I would have guessed that the older driver 'Samsung 2.4.7.0 driver dated 8/6/2016' would be the more performant one in a workstation class workload.

The most current driver 'Samsung driver 2.0.0.1607 dated 10/10/2016' is only faster in server/enterprise like workloads.

Myself? I would ignore the BM 'scores' and use the older 2.4.7.0 driver for the most real world performance you can expect/do on a notebook computer today. Of course, that would first be tested and verified in my actual workloads (the 'scores' are just numbers on the BM writers assumptions of what is fast, after all...).

 

One of the things I have read about the PM961 is that BM scores can be inconsistent, and having done several BM runs on some of the configs, I can say that the difference in performance between the two Samsung drivers is statistically insignificant. One may very well be a little better for a workstation and the other a little better for server/enterprise, but the difference isn't going to be noticed. The important thing is that both drivers are better, both statistically and in practical application, than the RAID controller or generic MS NVMe controller driver. The average user will notice an improvement in performance when switching from the generic MS drivers to the Samsung drivers.

I have a fair amount of vacation I need to take (and will be) before the end of the year. Maybe I'll do multiple runs and spreadsheet the results and figure out the deviations between runs and how statistically close the two drivers are... put that college statistics class to good use (that was sooooo long ago ).