Samsung unveils new PCIe 4.0 SSDs that "never die"

Samsung unveils new PCIe 4.0 SSDs that "never die"
They keep working even if a NAND chip fails

@tilleroftheearth

 

sounds great and all problem with this SSD is that there are other components that will fail result in loss of data. technically one can desolder and resolder them and this includes the controller as well but probably no one does that and chances are flash itself outlasts the other components on PCB anyway even in today's flash standards.

kinda like optane memory being advertised by intel to be 1000x faster only to be hold back by everything else like PCIe protocol and other things like controllers limitation.

i guess its great when other stuff dont fail and is limited to flash failing scenario then thats the premium we'd choose to pay for. other than that i love pcie4 sequentials.

 

They're going to be good, probably the best, why do they need to go ruining it already with BS marketing overreach that presents a preventative self diagnostic data preservation mechanism as if it were god mode?

It's not even actually preventing any failure, only data loss... Dunno who I despise more, the marketing trolls who come up with this junk or the tech press who regurgitate it.

 

it never dies, sure, it just runs out of functional flash chips at some point (if nothing else fails) 4KB SSD, anyone?

anyways, with the enterprise drives out of the way, the nextgen highend consumer drives should be around the corner

 

All I care about in SSDs to be honest is more storage space at an affordable price. We've been stuck at 2TB for NVMe m.2 SSDs and 4TB for 2.5" SSDs for ages.

 

yep im waiting for that as well. a yr ago i spoke with Chris he explained QLC's yield was below 50% and it was more expensive to make than TLC so hopefully thats changed now.

also samsung's NF1 M.2 SSD is 30mm * 110mm vs the standard 20mm * 80mm capable of going 15TB so they could technically get regular m.2 to ~6-8TB if they wanted to. they are trying to milk it for sure.

 

yep, thats basically the stance of almost all consumers. thats why they keep pushing for higher-bit flash (PLC coming up baby! ) while sacrificing performance and durability...

milking is one part. Pricing is another, market just isnt there yet to make 4TB drives affordable for the masses. Its basically JUUUUST starting to get interesting for enthusiasts, I paid about 20% less per 4 TB 860 Evo than I did for my 1 TB 850 Pro right when it came out in 2014. Also, so far, Samsung was the ONLY player offering 4TB consumer drives so far, this changed only VERY recently when Western Digital started offering their Blue and SanDisk lineups in 4 TB flavour... (availability was just given like a few weeks ago I noticed!)

Fun Fact: the most affordable 4TB+ drive atm in terms of price per GB is a 7.68 TB drive by Micron But anything in 8TB class right now either sucks in terms of write IOPS performance, or is just INSANELY expensive....

 

for performance/durability will not be an issue for storage and it's 4k QD read/write will still be multiple times faster than traditional hard drive. so as long as they use say 16-32 channels on those QLC/PLC we wont have sequential write problem that we see with TLC SSDs today (the problem with write at 3GB/s for 10 sec then DRAM fills up drops to 1GB/s).

as for the consumer 4TB.. quite expensive. there are 3.84TB enterprise drives with better endurance from micron/samsung on ebay and usually if they server pulled with a bit of usage still good, they can go half or a 3rd price of a consumer 4TB.

the IOPs for large capacity SSD isn't all that important for me as I need the higher than HDD i/o for faster search, everything else just like HDD to store stuff. Optane boot drive all the way baby!!

 

ahaha nice! i was thinking EXACTLY about the Optane U.2 to M.2 mod for my machine! but in the end i went the 970 Pro route. let us know how it goes!

 

that signature is closing in on 2yrs old LOL.

it didn't work out, I used the extra GPU power connector on mobo to provide power and getting it to 12v for U.2 12v rail and it still wont recognize it.

if I use an adaptor and power it externally and data connection going through m.2 laptop picks it up just fine. just currently no way to power it not sure if GPU isn't connected power dont go through connector. instead i went sata mod to add more sata SSDs in 2nd GPU bay, had to kinda sacrifice bluetooth for it though, still trying to find a USB wifi + usb combo that works with server 2012. if i was on windows 10 or 8.1 im sure i'd have bluetooth + wifi issue solved by now.

 

ha funny, power delivery was exactly the reason why i didnt attempt it in the end. i was worried about your exact issue, that the M.2 connector would not be able to provide enough power to the drive. ah well, im sure it was still fun trying though! what did u do with the optane drive?

 

its not enough power, if our laptop has a 12v rail sata then it would certainly work. but most laptop dont bother implement sata with 12v because no need for it. the amount of current going through a sata port for 5v is definitely more than enough if we can have a 12v rail it'd work.

i got 905p m.2 working and its running off of 3.3v. basically got an m.2 extender to place it where 2nd GPU slot is doesnt need a lot of space but it runs quite hot.

 

damn, that 22110 monstrosity? lol u REALLY wanted optane in your machine huh?

post some benches pls what kinda temps are we looking at? is that with or without heatsink?

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

room temp ~25-27c, it would idle at around 60-65C at room temp and instantly go upwards 80-85c soon as use it within like 10 seconds and this was when adapter/extender was still outside the laptop, with heatsink it'll just slow that process to like 20 seconds rofl. (talking about sequential write btw, every other workload is much better, random write isnt as bad as sequential write)

I had to have my CPU/2ndary GPU fans both running at constant 20% rpm to keep some airflow but even so it'll heat up and it'll just throttle (sequential write, which make sense why 800p is only like 600MB/s lmao).

i had plans to replace it soon as something better and more energy efficient come out from intel but looks like nothing so far.

 

yeah ikr? intel should get their heads outta their butts and start offering something worthy of optane performance in 2280 flavour at acceptable capacities and wattages....

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

I am curious where you actually see a difference with Optane? I was a fan of it, but looking at real world tests, I've yet to see something that really benefited from it...

 

@Ultra Male @tilleroftheearth

optane dimm as storage, 4k Q1T1 write is faster than sequential write because it is in single channel rofl. this is showing when optane performance isn't held back by PCIe/chipset and other stuff.

 

It can be even faster. That's with the 4K block storage mode, and it gets 2-3us latency(compared to 10us for Optane SSDs). It's a true RAMDrive.

In the App Direct mode(where it requires recompiling), that will drop another 10x to 180-340ns. When it comes to client PCs and Windows supports it, we can have a system that can boot nearly instantaneously(from power button press to desktop all ready to go).

But really this is off topic.

 

yea now we laughing at those people claim optane is a dud just because intel advertise the 1000x faster than flash etc. i have no doubt it is that much faster than flash, just anything we use in a computer is seriously holding it back.

once we got this working, anything else will be software improvement from that point on. holding multi core/multi qd storage performance back.

 

Getting full advantage from SSDs are going to take 10+ years.

You'll see full potential shown in next generation consoles. The reason it takes much longer in PCs is because its a general purpose machine and compatibility is important.

 

compatibility is an excuse imo. more so the resources that goes into it just isn't worth it. people using software for it's features so as long as not incredibly slow or they got some competition with large money involved it just won't happen in the end it is all about the monies.

that and also people dont understand their own workload.

 

You think being able to run the program you want without headaches is an excuse?

So what? Most people shouldn't have to care about it. Some of us are technical, and we care about those things, but most people don't. And we have things that we don't care about but are passion for others.

 

i think you are jumping to conclusions on what i said so i'll let it go.

anyway we all be glad optane coming to consumers with this kind of performance. no more NVMe nand that loses 80% of it's performance during read & write workload scenarios. optane all the way baby.

 

Runs out of functional chips? I was under the impression all or most ssd's do that with bad block management.

 

only as long as u have reserve cells to spare. once those dry up ur whole drive locks up / craps out. this way u can off defective chips and chug on with the working ones.

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when i said the 80% loss in performance, applies to flash cells when doing read and write at the same time. this is the characteristic of flash technology so to say if you 100% or 100% sequential read/write its hella fast once you have read/writes both involved maybe flash cant handle it fast enough so it loses performance? im not too sure, you can find the reviews out there especially on tweaktown/tomshardware by reviewer Chris. (may not apply to SLC not sure)

optane memory on the other hand does not do this, as long as controller is capable, optane memory will do as much as it can.