Sandy Bridge Design Flaw

daveperman!

I was waiting for you to give us a 'feel of your pants' review of your new SB system.

What do you think of it so far?

 

That's true . Since macpod asked, I was just trying to explain in the simplest way. Correct me if Im wrong and forgive me if my post made you confused

Assuming you buy a R3, that would come with 2 HDD/SSD connected to port 1 and 2. If you do not choose the 2nd HDD/SSD, the blank bracket would be connected to port 1 by default. So basically 2 HDD/SSD for port 1 and 2 which are SATA III 6GBs.
Blu-ray and all others will be connected to SATA II ports.

 

So aren't you using the 2nd bracket for HDD?

 

no. i use windows home server. i don't need a hdd in any system.

well, as it's not my system, it's utter crap. no seriously, it's awesome, and i want it to be my system.. but i have to finish it first before reporting it. all i can say is, everything works as expected. which means, awesome.

 

I hope every SB notebook is covered by whatever replacement plan they figure out. Not just those sold on and after Jan 9... he he or else, am SOL

 

Hell in europe you could come back after 2 years, point to this news and have in replaced/repaired.

You're covered. Intel have set aside $700 million to get the issue fixed.

They will want to avoid OEMs causing shenanegans as this would reflect badly on them.

 

only the optical and HDD drives are sata. nothing else is SATA. Maybe esata as well. When did USB, DVI, hdmi, displayport become sata? and the first port/slot is always 0, so sata 0 and 1 are sata 3.


edit：esata is effected but usb is a separate entity and USB 3.0 is a separate thirdparty chip all together. The other ports run off the pci express lanes

 

I don`t really understand the logic behind people saying that its allright because they are using the SATA 3 ports when they have a faulty MB with damaged ports. When i buy a new computer i expect everything to be top notch and working perfectly.

And the laptops being shipped in few weeks are fully fixed. Meaning that they won`t ship out laptops with damaged ports. You should probably worry though if you get your new laptops in the next days. Intel said in the official statement that they will deliver new shipments in February. Mind you it is only a small quantity, and they expect to meet the markets demands in April. So you will be able to buy new fixed SB laptops this month if you are lucky, while most people will have to wait until April.

 

they are not damaged. they are not guaranteed to not damage over time. big difference.

at no place did they say it's a flaw that affects you right now, or affects everyone. all it is is a possible issue that can annoy you in the future. not that it has to. they only proved it to happen so far under extreme temperatures.

and as i don't use those old sata ports, i am 100% save for this system. which is great, as it means i can use the system from now on 24/7, and not have to send in my mainboard and wait for the replacement mainboard and all. it just works.


i can still later get a new, fixed mainboard when i set up a new system for someone else, and replace the buggy one there, and send it in.


but it's nice to know that the finished, working setup is not having a possible issue the way it's actually in use right now.

 

We're not customers; we're end-users. The resellers are the customers.

 

Intel said it is 5-15% probablility that the ports will fail. And that is over time. It is not like the ports will either work or will not. It is more complicated than that. You can use the SATA 2 ports and they can be damaged and some people wouldn`t even notice because they degrade over time and bit error will increase until it is fully damaged and the system can`t find HDD/SSD/OD.

People are different but i wouldn`t have that monkey on my back not knowing if the SSD is not having the speed it should have or if the SATA port will eventually shut down.

And the reason why Intel tested the chipset under extreme temperatures was because they needed to accelerate the process because this degrading takes time. That does NOT mean that this failure will only happen under high temperatures. It could happen to anyone with normal temperatures.

 

Its a transistor with the voltage biased to high. If you have increased your chipset voltage that will hurt it.

 

as said, i don't use the sata2 ports AT ALL. so i KNOW the ssd will never be affected. it's on a a sata3 port. on port0. i know this because it's an ssd made for sata3 (>300MB/s read speed) and runs at that speed.

and as those ports are NOT affected by this bug, there is NO problem for me. and because of that, i'm not in a hurry to replace it.

 

But you still use a potentially damaged MB. Oh well, we are all different

 

well, you life with a lot of potentially damaged things that, as long as you don't use them, never know if they are. every cd you burned might by now be damaged. if you don't listen to it ever again, why care?

and btw, no, my board is NOT damaged. the issue is about being able to get damaged while in use. so as long as i don't use those sata ports they're perfectly functional. there just is a chance that they die quite fast. and that chance actually is by itself quite low in ordinary usage.

so if i happen to plug in a hdd occationally, it won't damage. which actually, i wont. they go into the windows home server.

 

Just found victims of this issue. Bargain notebook hunters. 2 days ago i went to buy a notebook for my GF which is around 458.99 based on last gen core i7 stuff.

Today it's 524.97

I talked to the rep and she said PCworld/Currys management ask them to increase the price effective immediately from today.

 

Not everyone gets to keep their SB laptop. Toshiba is already recommending users return to place of purchase for refund.

 

When I called yesterday, the CSR said he did not know about the situation yet, but he did change my shipping from 7day to NBD. At about the same time, my order status changed to "In Production." Could that mean that they're not really going to fix stuff first and halt production?

thx!

 

Maybe Intel can now figure out how to make socket removable/replaceable chipsets? (or upgradable)

 

That's what I was wondering. That or if they send you a new one and you just send back the old one, a practice I think they partake in, but am really not sure.

 

I bet you have to send it in. Like Matt, I wonder if they will pull a Microsoft and just send you a refurbished laptop that has been already restored, to help with turn around times.

 

You would have to be insane (or have utter disregard for your long time data safety) to accept even a 5% (which according to reports is even higher) risk that your SATA port may fail (and cause data corruption along the line).

 

Well, it looks as if this is another chance to evaluate your vendor.

I would look more favorably on any vendor who:

a) has a plan to replace mobos already in the field.
b) makes a clear statement of their policy regarding this issue.
c) communicates regularly and clearly with customers as to the plan.
d) doesn't use the situation to jack pricing or otherwise take advantage of customers.

It seems to me that a decent vendor will be replacing mobos, on Intel's dime. After all, that's part of the assessed cost of the problem that's being tossed around the press.

 

There's been no indication of "data corruption" just reduced performance to the point it doesn't function. Data is intact. Like anything else, backup backup backup.

 

Man times like this make me glad I have an AMD-based laptop

 

It only affects a very small number of SB laptop that was sold last month, a non-event from end user's perspective.

 

And even so, it may not even affect SATA ports 0 and 1 which you would think most nb manufacturers use.

 

It *does not* affect ports 0 & 1. Although many manufacturers may use ports 2-5 for optical and eSATA just because they're limited to lower data transfer rates anyhow and ports 2-5 are SATA II and 0-1 are SATA III.

 

This is a more limited issue than I thought...

 

This is not a big problem for end user, but for OEM's this is going to be a nightmare.
I'm sure until yesterday they prepared mobo's for notebooks/desktops and now they have to fix all. Which will not only reduce their revenue but also their sale targets.

 

It's a great opportunity for AMD to fill the void.

 

Yeah, and then the manufacturers can make some remark about how AMD is better...

Actually, this is AMD's second opportunity. Nvidia and Intel, both competitors... lol.

 

I'm on the phone with my Dell rep, and according to them they pulled the M17x R3 off the consumer site (it's still on the Dell EPP site, ironically) due to the SB issue. She checked with her manager and was told that they weren't going to be selling them until the issue is fixed.

Checking the Dell site verifies this:

Alienware M17x Gaming Laptop Details | Dell

 

I think it's great Manufacturers are pulling the laptops. That way when they are re-released , there won't be any doubt to whether the laptop is affected or not.

Just me $0.02

 

Yup i agree. Good that they are on the safe side. I would refuse to use a potentially damaged MB.
And im not buying a new laptop before new SSDs are released anyway, so no stress

 

So I spoke with another Dell/AW rep, who spoke with their production team and was told that you can order an Alienware M17x R3 over the phone and have it swapped out through warranty later on.

I'll find out in a day or two if they end up canceling my order, I guess.

 

If anyone who's ordered the R3 is worried about how this will affect you, please run on over to the Alienware section, and read my post in the thread for how it'll affect R3.

Basically, in a nutshell, orders will continue with production until further notice. Personally I'd rather them hault it and ship it to me a little later, than me waste several weeks a month from now

EDIT: My bad, I posted it in the R3 order status thread also

 

I saw your and another couple of posts, and after debating back and forth about if they're going to delay or cancel my order, I decided to fall back on the M15x. I'll take the slight performance hit, save a couple bucks, and have something to give to the girlfriend in 6-12 months when I buy my M17x.

 

Update

Recent information on when PCs with Sandy Bridge will start selling to the public:

It goes on to say:

Intel Sandy Bridge Recall Expected To Delay PCs -- InformationWeek

 

Stupid question: I can keep my socket 1155 Desktop Motherboard but RMA my i5-2400?

 

Your processor is perfectly fine; your motherboard's chipset is what has the flaw. Sorry, but that really wouldn't get you anywhere.

 

Even after Intel corrects the problem, is there any way to ever know which motherboards containing the H67/P67 chipsets are the revised version and which are the defective one? Or will we never be able to tell whether or not we're being ripped off by an unscrupulous retailer?

 

I can't imagine anyone thinking they could get away with selling bad (or even potentially bad) systems after the blizzard of press this issue has gotten. I would say that if anyone has a Sandy Bridge system go wonky in the SATA ports would get a free replacement at the least, for all time to come.

 

All vendors are getting money from Intel for each chip they fix. It's not worth it to try to scam users.

 

Unless in a year or so it's an eBay sale of a used computer.

It would be good if there is a software tool that will indicate revision of the SATA chip just for clarification sake.

 

Though that makes you wonder what possible reason they would have had for not just getting the computer fixed in the first place.

 

That's kinda naive to say.

Here's a possibility: Vendor receives cash (aka newly revised-mobos) at expense of Intel, right? You send your lappy back to [insert OEM company here]. They don't fix yours, and they send it right back to you saying it's "fixed", cuz there's no real way for you to check if it's a new mobo, unless it's a diff color or there's something printed on it which says rev_2 or something, iono. OEMs "keep" the revised mobos and sell it in new laptops later on. Profit, right?

Only way I could think of it being legit is if Intel is somehow really good at inventory, and requires that all OEM's send the messed up mobos back to Intel for destroying/recycling, and all old and new mobo's have an registration/ID number on it or something for inventorying purposes. Iono.

 

And when they get caught, Intel pays much more later on and their reputation plummets.

 

Yessir. And the OEM wouldnt give a damn, cuz it's not their rep that's going down (relatively speaking and cuz customers are more likely to just blame Intel again).

 

Sounds like a good lawsuit for Intel; and they would win big!