I thought I would try to get this information out to as many of you as I can. I came accross this while attempting to enable optimus on a non optimus HM65 based system (anyone who tells you hardware is missing is full of crap unless someone can prove me wrong, and please do so I can give up already). I havent seen much information about this as most people are using throttlestop (wich works great by the way). For some this doesnt work (different OS....) and lets face it is a less then ideal solution. Aywho enough bsing in this post, here is a link to more aimless rambling![]()
http://forum.notebookreview.com/asu...5264-bios-cpu-throttling-fix.html#post8196019
(PS this is in the Asus gaming forum as thats what I have, g53sw, but it should work for any manufacturer using ami Aptio on an hm65 chipset, it may work on other chipsets and bios types but I havent bothered to try it. If someone would like assistance with this get me a copy of your choice of bios file for your machine and I will see if this can be done for you as well.)
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I believe I read a post by an Nvidia representative 6 months ago or something that the reason why Optimus won`t work on a non-optimus notebook is because the IGP is not directly hooked to the display. So it is impossible to enable it without soldering on wires etc
The post is somewhere in this forum but God knows where -
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Thankyou much. What you linked I believe was the document for an older version of optimus. With sandybridge and my 2630qm everything is here and "connected" in terms of hardware from the hours of reading I have done (havent been proven otherwise) originally optimus had to be hardwired to the board and that is simply not the case now, we need a CPU that has intel graphics built in (I have), a pch controller (I have), and a display port IE monitor hooked to motherboard and not the discrete card. At\rendale also had it on die, but im not as clear on the tech there but some may find this of use.
ThinkPad T410/T510 Intel IGP/Optimus Unlock Request
While they did not get it to work on this model here are some things of note from my hands on experience with a g53sw:
Using AMIBCP 4.5 and looking under the chipset I have compared the g53sw rom to a few different N53 with comparable specs that have optimus. Where the graphics is set to auto on the g53 it iset to switchable on the n53. I tried just switching the option to switchable but when I flashed and rebooted there was no display, it did boot all the way into windows (windows sound and typed password in and more sound). However I could not get display to work from external or internal. Still haveing spent very little time with it at this point I flashed it back and modified the other things I mentioned in the post I linked at the start of the thread. I have since been looking at the settings and have noticed that where the display is selected upon boot is currently set to vbios. What I dont know is if this is the HD3000 vbios and wether it is here or not (it certainly appears to be, ie I dont find option package that varies here in the n53 or g53 bios) Or if there is something different about the actual Nvidia bios when optimus comes from the factory. Now I can change this setting from vbios to a specific port but havent done this as I havent exhausted getting it to work as intended. I still need to get ahold of a gtx 460m out of an alienware or other that has vbios from the factory, and I also need a tool to compare my bios to it in more detal then nibitor will do (anyone have suggestions?). I would be interested if anyone has any information about how they can tell the version of HD3000 vbios they have on their sandybridge (Later n53 bioses have updated this so there hase to be something to it in the bios?)And if anyone has any idea where this option rom would be installed, device ID's for you HD3000 would be very helpful as well.
Important notes as to why I am trying so hard:
I cant find anything in the tech documents, comparing motherboards, or in the Bios that varies between the two other then the switchable setting... and obviously what vbios they mean when determining the display to use).
Every other attempt I have seen to change the switchable option in the past has resulted in it resetting to default upon reboot, most certainly not the case here as I can attest to.
When these motherboards are made do you really think they make some without certain components? Look at the pictures and specs on the two computers, with the exception of the optimus and video card installed they are for all intents and purposes identical and the Bios definately backs this up.
Further in my opinion its not to manafacturers benefits to ever enable this on our current hardware even if it is as simple as a bios flash or vbios flash, as they can claim it wont work, or pretend ignorance and simply sell all of us new machines with it enabled instead (if we want it that bad)
As to why it isnt on default by now, IE they would have made the SX if they could or the Clevo....I suspect wether this will ever be owned up to or not that there is a good chance Nvidia has agreements as to the licensing of the optimus technology when pertaining to the gtx line to the select few willing to kiss their ie pay for it. There is no logical reason why from what I can tell for as long as this has been available there are only two manafacturers using it on gtx machines (these machines that have it have the same chipset people!!) Argue its not needed/screws up a gaming machine all you want, but the simple fact is, its easy to enable/disable in windows and or bios so that is no longer a valid argument (it was with older optimus technology, this has come a LONG way since it was released people!) Also people pay to upgrade for new features so why after all this time are there still no other manufacturers using it? I would love for some to tell me im stupid give me a link that clears this up so I can stop looking into it as the simple fact is from everything I can tell this is not a hardware issue, that being said it is still possible that a bios mod will never be able to do this without manufacturer support (ie give us some info so we can fix it for you) or they decide to give us something for nothing (yeah right)Ive spent a lot of time looking into the Asus line at least and it certianly seems fishy/I find nothing stopping me from doing this at the hardware level. -
If Nvidia made it as easy as you thought to have Optimus, every manufacturer would have enabled it already
But no, what Cloudfire quoted is still true. The display is still hooked up to the IGP and the driver will decide whether the Nvidia GPU or Intel GPU takes the reins when doing something like playing a game. If it decides that the Intel GPU should take charge, the Intel GPU will then process and output the display via its frame buffer. If the driver decides the Nvidia GPU should take charge, then the Nvidia GPU will process and output the display via the Intel GPU frame buffer as well. In non-Optimus displays, the Nvidia GPU outputs via its own frame buffer, which is why you cannot have Optimus work on non-Optimus systems as you need to do some hardware mods as well. As you have tested, the display does not show up when you attempted to test Optimus on a non-Optimus computer. This is because there is nothing being output from the Intel frame buffer since it's your Nvidia GPU that is outputting the display via its own frame buffer. Since the bios only looks at the Intel frame buffer and not the Nvidia one, you end up with a blank screen. Hope this helps somewhat. -
Well if its impossible due to hardware.....I just finished about 6 hours of bios comparisons and evidently managed to program hardware into my machine....
You hear right I am currently typing this from my g53sw Optimus enabled machine (well not full optimus yet, but i will explain). The key to finally figuring it out was getting ahold of a notebook that had optimus, had an hm65 chipset, and most importantly an ami aptio based bios. I was aware of the alienware miles that were configured with similar hardware (HM65 and gtx460) but they are using the intel designed EFI bios instead of the ami aptio efi bios like my asus, so that wouldnt work for what I had been trying to do. I was however unaware until feedback from you wonderful people that Toshiba also had made a system thus configured. After tracking down a vbios for this machine and dealing with extracting the bios file from the .exe package as Toshiba went out of its way to hide the file from anything but there flash programs, lo and behold toshiba is also using an ami aptio based bios, and it gets even better from here. Haveing this bios I confirmed the following as being true: the configuration of the bios was identical to my g53 in terms of present hardware, same settings enabled everywhere that matters in terms of using the onboard intel video set. Once again the key factor was the setting to initialize the vbios (and some more option roms but I will get to that in a minute) to decide what display to boot, as my last attempt wouldnt boot a display I was pretty sure this is where at least part of my issue lies. Jumping to a lovely tool called MMTool (another ami aptio supplied bios editing tool for OEM and enduser). For those not familiar with it, it is possible to extract what is known as option roms from within the bios. I had already noticed that in the g53sw bios (there is only 1 for this machine ever released thus far from asus) that the option rom for my video card when extracted was a corrupted nvida vbios, additionally the vbios on the n53 for its optimus enabled card was stored in the same location as the g53sw option rom and it was NOT corrupt upon extraction ie Nivibitor opens it with zero issues. I have also verified with many other aptio optimus notebooks that didnt have gtx cards that they also had fully functioning vbioses in this option rom location. Enter the toshiba Qosimo bios I aquired, first let me say toshiba and their bios not only is it locked down much tighter, it is a terrible structure that has option roms for damn near every hardwar config they have done on that machine including option roms for both ati and nvidia, Asus however makes a different option rom for every hardware config, and doesnt go way out of their way to make menus more or less impossible to unlock. After going through many nvidia option roms I came to one that had the same hardware address as my gtx 460 and lo and behold....as on every other optimus notebook (all this pertains only to sandybridge hm65 chipsets with i7 processors as thats what I have)it had a fully functioning vbios that Nibitor can open as it would any normal working nvidia bios. Couple of differences when I compare it with the version extracted from my actual video card. First off my version is from 2010, all optimus on sandybridge vbios's including the gtx 460 vbios from the Toshiba are 2011 or newer, further in every case without exception the setting to display video ram has been disabled....hmm interesting. Jump ahead. I was also able to verify the option rom for the intel hd3000 ie it is the hardware ID and it matchs in both the toshiba and the Asus n53 I have been using to compare. So jump ahead....using a Bios file from an asus N53 that had been updated with the newist Intel HD Vbios I extracted it from that bios, and took the plung and installed the option rom in the proper location in my g53sw. This is how I got it to do the following:
I dont have optimus enabled. I do however have the machine running off of the intel onboard card! I have been using the machine this way for over an hour with multiple reboots and have typed all of this while using it. How I did this was setting my Primary Display function to the intel chip (we need to use SG to truly do this right and not in the terribly impracticality of my current seytup)I had tried SA before without a good result, but before adding the intel HD option rom, even with this option rom I am still not ready to try that again just yet (hence no true optimus as this needs to be enabled to do that, but I can switch between the two, albeit its a pain in the and not for the feint of heart as I will explain). The other thing that I did this time was change the display initialization from vbios to the specific port that the display is on instead, and I also changed a few other graphic settings that had vbios set as default to the internal monitor. I then saved my bios, reboot and flashed it. I fully expected nothing. It wasnt until getting into windows and haveing it do a driver install and going to device manager that I would actually believe it was indeed using the intel graphics, but lo and behold it is. Problems at this point: most likely I have broken my windows install in terms of ever getting optimus working right without a reinstall as the computer cannot switch in its current setting(Primary display has to be set to SG, and not any other to use optimus), aditionally I have the port that my gtx 460 is installed in disabled in the bios at the moment. To switch back to using my gtx 460 and to disable the intel graphics I would have to flash the bios as the menu I need to access to change these parameters is hidden in a way that I am unsure of how to unlock at this point (I have WAY WAY more options then stock in my bios config screen, but unfortunately they are all in the advanced main menu)I do not have access to the chipset menu on this machine in any form in the stock bios (im referring to settings in the bios if you enter it upon boot)and thus far I have been unable to have any success in unlocking a main menu but it can be done (didnt matter to me unless I could get this working as nothing else under there is of interest to me at this time)So obviously this is a complete no no and totally impractical for most of you at this time. That being said some obervations:
Anyone who goes as far as to say enabling the Intel onboard graphics on a machine that didnt have it is impossible due to the fact they didnt include the hardware at least in wrong! Is this true in all manufacturers notebooks or even all Asus models, I dont know this is all I have to test this on (someone wanna donate?)but as I stated before do you really believe they are building (for all intents and purposes) identical motherboards for optimus vs non optimus products (ie HM65, same ports, same irq tables (once again ALMOST), same rams slots, all connectors for keyboards, displays, graphics cards in the exact same slot (once again this is for Asus as I have not done other then compare bios on any other machine at this point), etc etc and are leaving hardware off the gtx equipped motherboard, not bloody likely. Pretty much garuntee this board came off the same assembly line as the N53 did as it has the same board number, and I mean the exact same board number...My g53 also has the architechture in the bios for any of the few differences besides the graphics cards enabled in the bios the same as the n53 does, ie different sound, option roms and bios setting are on my g53 bios with no mods from me). In this case what I am trying to say is the boards from what I can tell came from the same place and were made with the same options with the sole exception being the nvidia vbios and intel vbios option roms are either different or not present on my stock bios. In this case I feel confident saying the hardware is not the case for why optimus isnt here, it is 100 percent bios configuration. Where am i going from here, what worth is this?
I obviosuly need to look into other asus gtx 460m vbios files that will be compatible with my version of card (my current vbios is more or less pre release wich is special considering how long the g53sw has been out now). I need to find a version that is manufcatured sometime after 2011 instead of in 2010, that wont brick my video card (I have not looked into this at all at this point). I also would like to get ahold of a dell vbios from a gtx 460m with optimus enabled to widen what I have here to compare with ie I only have the Toshiba optimus enabled gtx 460m vbios at the moment that I extracted as an option rom from the toshiba system bios, I also wouldnt mind haveing a vbios pulled off of a Toshiba via Nivibitor just to compare with what I have extracted from the system bios. I also could use some way to look at the gtx vbios in more detail then what Nibitor will do (havent looked into this as of yet) Anyone who is interested and can help with this please contact me with the above information as this will greatly speed forward progress from this point.
What needs to be done at this point. Currently I will be spending my time figuring out how to unlock the chipset menu or move the setting for Graphics Configuration from the Chipset main menu to the Advanced main menu in my bios instead (I have come across hm65 aptio bios'es from other manufacturers setup this way, and will only attempt this if I cant get the Chipset main menu to show as a whole (any ideas by the way?)If I can do this I will be able to switch from Intel Onboard graphics to my gtx 460m by doing a simple reboot and bios setting change vs the current needed bios flash to switch (I game on a desktop so I doubt I will change this setting right away as i LOVE the battery life and yes i went from a max of almost 3 hours if I was lucky to over 4 so far and still going, and I may or may not have had a full charge to start)For me if I could reboot and change what card I am using in the bios would be good enough even if I never get it to switch on auto as it accomplishes my goal of haveing the gtx 460m for the times I dont have access to my desktop and want a gaming notebook, and a somewhat battery effecient (best I have ever had) notebook the rest of the time, and for MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper then any other system that would allow me to do this with a "real" gaming latop graphics card (I have had this g53 for less then a week so far and I got it brand new for 899!) Not saying I cant or wont get it working but here are my uncertanties as it stands in terms of this ever being a possibility.
Currently I have not touched my vbios option rom, ie I have a "corrupt one" instead of one that extracts as an option rom and would be able to be used using Nibitor, every bios I have examined from a factory optimus system had an option rom for the graphics card that I could extrat from the system bios and was a viable vbios file on its own, whereas my current system does not have this until I find a vbios for my gtx 460m that is more current then what I have I will not be attempting to add this type of option rom to my system, as I would like to flash first the card and then add the same vbios as I am using on the card as an option rom where it is installed on the optimus systems, but that requires vbios research and im still not done with the way I want my system bios to be (ie i need to unlock the chipset or suchother before I keep pursuing optimus at this point)If an n53 user that has a optimus enabled i7 sandybridge system could advise me whether they can turn graphics cards off and on in the bios this would be a big help (from examining the bios files it certainly appears this is not an option on the n53, it is however an option on the Toshiba stock)Then I will have to find the vbios, verify that my gtx 460m is working with it for a few days, and then I would need to figure out the best way to get as much detail about the dell vbios and toshiba vbios for their gtx 460 cards before I would then attempt to replace the existing vbios option rom in my system bios with the updated vbios (edited to disable the show memory setting using nibitor, and perhaps more if I can find other differences on the dell or toshiba vbioses (I could use some help obtaining those btw as stated aboe, Im sure I can hunt them down but it all takes time/dell and toshiba were a royal pain in the to get ahold of a bios file compared to anything else I have ever attempted to do this with ie its hidden in an autoflash exe for toshiba and dell appears likely to be the same from the bios I aquired) ). Once this was accomplished (if even possible) without bricking the bios (thats accidental damage right)I could then be talked into trying the SG setting again wich SHOULD mean if it works that optimus would function as intended with the aditional benefit of disabling it and running either card by itself.
Congratulations you made it! I cant quite believe I just typed this BOOK of a response. To state if you skimmed/skipped to the bottom. I have 100 percent proven that what is needed for my asus g53sw to use the integrated graphics is there in terms of hardware, it is definately software/vbios that limits this from the factory on this particular machine. This backs up the WEEK of very very little sleep (2-4 hours a day) had led me to believe, that MOST likely anyone using and HM65 chipset with at the very least either the ami aptio bios or the intel bios (not sure if any HM65 even use award or phoenix as this didnt pertain to ME)that led to to the conclusion that if manufacturers are claiming that hardware is missing on the sandybridge systems that SHOULD have had optimus as an option, but are needing a refresh to "add hardware" especially if the new version is still based on an HM65 platform (not sure if any are planning a refresh without IVY or not at this point)they are in my opinion likely not being truthfull. Or in a way worse dont understand what they are selling or how the NEWEST revision of optimus actually works (if this was anything other then sandybridge and optimus or POSSIBLY Arendale this would never work as hardware was most definately missing at that time). Enabling a feature at this point with the overwhelming majority thinking this is still impossible (a lot tried during the original releases of optimus, but very few have since sandybridge from my research) is not to their benefit. They dont get money for adding a feature like this to a notebook they have already sold, they do however make money selling you a new one that now has the "missing hardware" and now has optimus, and there are definately enough people that will buy a brand new system where the only true refresh is a different bios and maybe a better cpu/gpu that we are talking a SERIOUS amount of lost revenue if we can indeed prove this one way or another for more then just my g53sw.....just food for though, call me an idiot, dont believe me...........I dont care, to me I have proved what I stated at the start. The hardware is indeed there, and if all of the information I have provided (is this longer then an encyclopedia set yet?) to show how much time and effort I have put into this (i am unemployed, anyone wanna hire me ?
)we are talking well over 72 hours in all likeliehood at a minimum and this is not over three days but an actual 72 hours of time, still makes you either believe this is made up or whatever else......I really dont give a damn, its real, at least for MY computer. I will eventually when I get this as perfected as I feel I am amble or perfected to 100 percent working optimus I will at that time make a tutorial with photo's to help others and prove it to the people who are sure to call me a liar. At this time I am making this HUGE post and will be starting a new thread here and in other places where I feel people will be able to use what I have gathered thus far. I dont care to take credit for this, I honestly debated telling no one and figuring it all out on my own so I could then sell this idea as I am sure people would pay for this idea if they could use there current systems in a battery effecient way, while still being able to have a GOOD notebook gfx card without paying the heavy price it takes to have such a system at this moment (either the Toshiba or insanely priced alienware, either one much more expensive then a clevo or asus, and in my opinion not as good) I decided I would rather know if this is an isolated case or prove once and for all the lacking hardware is indeed BS on sandybridge systems that according to the most recent Optimus technical documents I can find (make sure you are actually looking at sandybridge optimus tech specs as the previous versions were executed quite differently)then try to take advantage of it.
All this being said HELP me people!! If you have exprience modding bios files, especially ami aptio, I am a total newb (never ever touched bios modification besides vbios until basically a week ago) imo, and would love to hear from some of you who I am sure have been doing this for a while. Further any assistance in obtaining gtx 460m vbios's from computers that have optimus right now (i am only aware of alienware, and toshiba, are there others?) will help my progress at this point A LOT. Any advice on what vbios newer then at least 2011 (january is fine) would work on my g53sw without bricking it would be awesome. I hope this helps some of you, and I apologize for all the length of this post. I will eventually go back and edit/update this but lets see what we can do in the meantime!!!!kimiraikkonen likes this. -
that was a lot to read ! but anyway congratulation. Can you post up some photos ?
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I asked Xonar, who unlocked Ami BIOS for Alienware to unlock my AMI from Sony VAIO because simple changing of Access of ALL submenus and menus doesn't help. He said he will look at it but has never responded since.
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What you enabled is the Intel GPU, but not optimus. Although I have to admit that is an achievement, what you did was enable manual switching in the bios and not optimus per se, because what you did (I think) is force the bios to use the Intel frame buffer rather than the Nvidia frame buffer. No one said enabling the Intel GPU was impossible, it's that Optimus will not work even if you did so, because you have to connect the Nvidia GPU to the Intel GPU's frame buffer which is a *very* tall order. However, kudos to you for trying and succeeding somewhat, hope you can actually prove us (and Nvidia) wrong by enabling optimus rather than simply enabling the option to switch the graphics cards in the bios. Best of luck to you
tl;dr, you did not enable optimus, just manual graphics switching
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100 percent right. I guess for me that was always what I wanted out of "optimus". In terms of auto switching.....I am fairly certain that we are going to find that the technology that controls this is going to be on the video card itself and not on the mainboard. Every optimus laptop that I have looked at controls ALL of the settings for auto switching (ie which display is active) via vBios according to the bios settings. Without haveing some more vbios to compare and finding either a better nvidia editor or someone who knows a lot more about hex editing then I do, this is going to take me some time to decode one way or another, but I am fairly sure this is going to be the "key" here.
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moral hazard Notebook Nobel Laureate
AMIBCP 4.5 doesn't corrupt your bios?
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The only exceptions I can think of that you somehow magically can enable the IGP and even the Optimus through software (ie BIOS) would be if the OEM (Asus) have made the routing from the IGP to display ready but disabled Optimus themselves. I find this very weird because I have spoken to engineers from MSI and they told me they did not want Optimus on their laptops because Optimus cause the dedicated GPU to get a performance hit by around 10% even when IGP is off. Then why should Asus do this but hide it?
Really interesting if asus did this and not told anyone. Big kudos if you discover that Lannigan -
No, usually it doesn't. However some people say that it changes "what it shouldn't change" -
moral hazard Notebook Nobel Laureate
Maybe when Lannigan figures it out he might post a guide -
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Wait someone got switchable graphics to work on HM65? That would be really good for all the gaming notebook owners out there!
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moral hazard Notebook Nobel Laureate
Off-topic but does has anyone else encountered the warning "Project ID Check Fail" while using AFUWIN?
And what is the solution? -
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The Nvidia GPU is connected to the Intel GPU's frame buffer, and the display is connected to the Intel frame buffer. The driver determines which GPU processes data, and not the vBios. When the Nvidia GPU processes data, the data is output via the Intel frame buffer, which is where the ~10% performance hit comes in due to latencies and data transfers and whatnot. Because the connection between the Nvidia GPU and the Intel frame buffer is a physical link, it must already be built in into the motherboard and yet not enabled, which is a pretty stupid decision from the manufacturer if they did so since it would be a waste of resources and possibly have the same performance impact as an Optimus-enabled system. Thus, the only way for a non-Optimus enabled system to have Optimus enabled is to have the physical link already built in. If it's not built in, the most you can hope for is manual switching capability, which is usually enough for most people -
But the display is connected to ONE of the GPUs. So if Lannigan successfully made it work on IGP, does that mean that the link exists? Are swichable graphics different from Optimus in terms of hardware?
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What he did was force the display to use the IGP frame buffer. What Optimus needs is a link from the Nvidia GPU to the Intel GPU frame buffer, which is what he lacks atm. Perhaps both frame buffers are still connected to the display output, but the point here is that the link between the Nvidia GPU and the Intel GPU frame buffer is missing.
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No I think that is wrong too456.
In Optimus systems there are always a link between IGP and the dGPU. The final image output to the display is always handled by the integrated graphics processor even if it is the dGPU that is doing the hard work. That is why some OEMs refuse to use Optimus because you get a performance hit by doing this. Go figure
Traditional systems don`t have this link between IGP and dGPU. That is why Nvidia say you need to rewire to get the Optimus to work or even the IGP. Atleast that is what they are telling us. If OP get the G73 to work, it means that either A) Asus is hiding the fact that their system is Optimus ready but lacks the software support or B) Nvidia is lying C) OP is lying
This is how it works. Yes I made it in a few minutes in paint so sorry about the quality
The first one is a traditional system without Optimus
The second is light office work where the dGPU is shut down and the IGP is doing all the work
The third is resourcedemanding task like gaming.
The line is the link on the motherboard between IGP and dGPU
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After all, there's a whole forum of bios modders at mydigitallife, if they couldn't do it, I think there has to be a reason why.
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Yeah you are right, the dGPU does not shut off completely. Just idle like you say
In the CUDA developer guide they say -
Well the fact that he got the IGP to work means that he is definitely on to something. The frame buffers in the Asus are connected one way or another, since the screen works.
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Hi! It would be nice to get the modded bios with the manual switching function enabled. I have the same g53sw model. Lannigan, can you upload?
Thanks!!
Sandybridge throttling PERMANENT fix!!!
Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Lannigan, Dec 29, 2011.