Seagate Momentus 7200.4 thread

Just return your Seagate and swith for the cheaper Hitachi

 

Given all the Seagate 7200.4 bashing here, based on CrystalMark, can anyone explain this stellar perfomance of 7200.3 in CrystalMark:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/942/5/
I've ordered 7200.4 500Gb, waiting for it to arrive in UK, but these posts are making me think about canceling order. Still, if the link i posted is correct, and if 7200.4 is improvement over 7200.3 (reasonable expectation), then 7200.4 would still be significantly better performer than any other alternatives praised here, based on 7200.3 legitreviews Crystal scores.

 

im in the same boat, ive just cancelled an order for a 250gb version, partly because of the poor reviews and partly because Insight and other companies keep moving the expected delivery date. i think im going to wait a few months till the dust settles and a 7200.5 or something similar gets released. assuming companies in the UK can get any credit to buy stock that is. im assuming thats why this drive cannot be bought in the UK at the moment.

 

Here's a CrystalDiskMark of 7200.4

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1550&pageID=6763

with Sequential read of 103.6 and 97.91 write, beating significantly all the drives (Hitachi 5k500.B, WD5000BEVT, Seagate 5400.6.) in the test that' been discussed so much here - at leats in this one category.

I haven't compared other categories (4k and 512k), but dismissing 7200.4 seems to be not so well founded based on this quick comparison i did.

 

i bought 7200.4 500Gb for less than £80 including delivery, so i'm reluctant to cancel at such good price. Although now i'm starting to loose faith that i will get the drive in the next few weeks (incoming date pushed back all the time, like in the rest of UK), i ordered it 4/5 weeks ago.

Still, stats published and promoted here for drives that are meant to be beating 7200.4 do not make sense to me. And these two reviews i posted above are confirming my doubts, partially.

It would be great if someone here could run CrystalDiskMark on 7200.4 so we get a head to head comparison.

 

Actually my Seagate "bashing" is based on a real world test performed here (last paragraph), not on synthetic benchmarks like CrystalMark.

Seagate 7200.3 did very well in synthetic tests, that's why it won the hdd test by Tom's Hardware. Techreport.com has done application benchmarks and some real world tests, turned out that the 7200.3 was beaten by the 5400rpm WD3200BEVT in several tests.

 

OK, sorry, no need to use "bashing" there, i stand corrected.

Let's talk numbers then. You're saying that your manual copy of a large (5.46GB) folder (paragraph File Copy in you text) is more "real world" that all the testing software?

I disagree. My use pattern of HD is not to copy a single larg folder, but a constant use of HD by multiple applications doing small reads and writes. I think this is a scenario that most users have in average use ... browsing, reading email, writing documents, watching a video.

In that sense, i can't see how is your single folder copy test more "real world" than testing applications like CrystalMark which do masive copy & read of 4k and 512k files. That's not ideal either, but it's far closer to real world, than your manual test. At least that's how it seems to me.

Why would not, for example, SiSoftware Sandra 2009 SP3 test, in which 7200.3 comes top, be more real world that your test?

What's so scientific about manual copy of a single large folder, when average daily usage of a HD in a laptop is something completely different?

 

Copying a 5GB is just one example of a real world test. Opening up a 4MB .doc with Word is another example. Or starting Firefox with 10 plugins is another. Or booting/hibernating Vista or XP. Or open up Photoshop with a virusscan in the background.

Benchmarks like Crystal Mark, HD Tune and PC Mark are synthetic. They can be fooled.

An example of this fooling can be found here: Tom's Hardware relies on synthetic tests in this review. Techreport relies on application benchmarks and real world tests in this review. Look how different the end conclusion is.

The best benchmarking, in my opinion, is done by Laptopmag. Here's an example.

 

OK, i see what your point better now. In that light, according to techreport HDs test from mid 2008, WD Scorpio Black performed far better than 7200.3, for example.

 

For those of you who are still interested, newegg gives an ETA: 04/29/2009 which is this Wednesday.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148374


FYI...


--

 

Can anyone suggest a reputable retailer to buy an ASG model from? I don't know which one to trust from Google Shop; some of their review ratings have too small of a sample size. Anyone have personal experience?

 

I have been trying to read through this thread but I can't keep up and I've been a bit confused.

My initial plan was to sell my 250GB Momentus 5400.4 and use the money to buy a smaller sized 7200rpm drive. (So that limits me to the $50-$60 range.) I care about how quickly my system performs, not about storage space or how long it takes to move large files.

Because of this thread I keep changing what I think I want:

• First I bought a 160GB Momentus 7200.3 for $60, but then canceled it because I thought the 7200.4 would be better (faster, quieter, and more power efficient).
  
• So I ordered a 250GB Momentus 7200.4 for $60. But then I see that some people are saying that it underperforms compared to some 5400rpm drives! So maybe I should just keep my 5400.4?! I canceled that order too.
  
• Finally, I resolved to buy a 160GB or 250GB WD Black ($65/$75)because I heard it does really well with I/O which I think is better for system performance and I don't mind waiting while copying large files around. Also someone said the WD Blacks are quieter.

But now I am concerned that since I'm looking at smaller drives, (due to the $50-$60 range) the benefits discussed here won't actually apply to me.

So I'm completely confused because of this thread. Anyone have opinions on what I should do?

 

160GB WD Black would be my choice if you don't really need more space. It only has one platter instead of two like the 250GB and 320GB have. One platter makes it theoretically more power efficient and quiet.

But keep in mind that a drive becomes more slow once it's about 80% full.

If you want to ask more questions that are not related to 7200.4, please use another thread, so we can keep this thread on topic.

 

Yes sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread. However I think discussion about the real-world performance value of the 7200.4 vs. the options I mentioned would be appropriate here though, especially in light of the under-performing of the 7200.4 recently discussed.

I'll be happy to move my question into a new thread if this seems too off topic. But ultimately my concern here is whether I should get the 7200.4 and why.

 

The million dollar question...

 

In the only available real world test at the moment the Hitachi 5K.500B was faster than the 7200.4.

Add to that that the Hitachi 5K.500B uses less power, is cheaper and makes less noise, I can't see any reason to buy 7200.4 at the moment.
(This may change when more test results become available.)

If you're after sheer speed, I expect WD Scorpio Black is still the fastest hard drive in real life at the moment.

 

The only thing stopping me from ordering a 7200.4 is the lack of real life comparisons and tests. Hopefully, that will be solved soon.

I checked with onlinevip.com.au last week, and they told me to ask again this Thursday

 

I just called Dell and they can't guarantee they'll get theirs in before June. WTH?

 

whoa.. that's horrible

 

DARN RIGHT.

I'm probably going to cancel and order from somewhere else if I don't get a shipping confirmation between now and the end of the month. waiting for 30 days without any news at all is too long.

My RMA clock is ticking on my 5400's. lol. I want to go with the best option...and I can't evaluate them if I don't have them!

 

Another delay, eh? Seagate is hiding something.
They want the title of "the first 2.5" 7200RPM 500GB HDD" but in the end, their HD will be released the same time as Hitachi and WD

 

my bench
firmware: 0002SDM1



(dont know how to post image bigger)

 

that minimum seems very low

 

Average of 80 is pretty darn good though.

 

yep, kinda slow...

 

that's in a few hours...

 

I'd much rather have a higher minimum with a lower average than a wide spectrum. Consistency is better.

Don't forget that E in ETA stands for Estimated.

 

I've seen a few other places also state an expected date of "late May-June". It's Apr 29 now which was the original ETA for newegg plus a few other places. I have a backorder with CDW here in Canada, which is also the drop-ship distributor for many smaller mailorder companies, and I just spoke with my corporate sales rep/merchandiser - and he said that they are nowhere in sight right now.

I bet Seagate is holding them back and desperately trying to fix some firmware issues. The latest crop of user reviews on newegg and other enthusiast sites leave a LOT to be desired.

Edit:

Discountechnology.com has a few left as of today. For myself, all of the mixed reviews finally scared me off, especially from any potentially old stock remaining that might not be equipped with the latest firmware/tweaks Seagate is most likely messing around with right now.

I'm trying to build a new ThinkPad system with both performance and rock-solid reliability as the goal. In the end, I decided to sacrifice the extra size and go with a proven WD Scorpio Black. In stock and fifty bucks less. I guess I could also have gone with the Blue 500GB or the new Hitachi, both of which seem to bench really well for 5400 drives. I had trouble filling my old 160GB anyway, so this should work fine for me.

 

I bought mine yesterday from discountechnology.
They had 39 pieces.

Mine was shipped yesterday, FedEx indicate 05 May for arriving here in Italy.

Bye

 

they have 0 now.

fyi.

 

wow, 39 to 0 in 1 hour???

 

lol. maybe they ran out awhile ago and just got around to updating their website.

 

Yeah, perhaps that's the case.

 

First off, thank you Phil for your quick response!

My seagate drive just arrived today from Dell. I'd ordered it April 1st. I've heard similar rumors of these drives being impossible to find because seagate's tweaking them. As a college-bound student who (slightly) values longer battery life, less heat, and less noise over a slight increase in performance, should I:
a) keep the drive
b) wait for the newer version of the drive with the tweaks
c) return it and get a 5400 rpm 500 gb WD drive off newegg
OR
d) return it and get a 5400 rpm 500 gb Hitachi drive off newegg

I don't mind paying 40 dollars more for a drive that I'll be using for several years. It really comes down to "will this seagate drive run significantly louder, hotter, and drain more power than the same capacity hitachi or WD 5400 rpms?" And...I'm clueless on this one.

edit: My laptop overheats a bit as it is, even with a 200 gb 5400 rpm drive.

Thank you guys for your help!

 

okay, I'm bitter.

I ordered mine the day before you did, and mine have yet to ship.

did you order the Dell Momentus or the Seagate Momentus?

 

wonder what this tweaking going to do? . lol seagate quality been crappy lately.. one of the 500gbs drive for desktop had a 50% failure rate

 

^ That does not sound very optimisitc at all

 

Can you tell us your Seagate/Dell Firmware?

 

According to dell it's a "500 GB 7200 RPM Momentus 7200.4 Serial ATA Hard Drive with Free Fall Sensor," so the dell version I guess.

The Firmware # is 0002SDM1. Being a mere technological initiate, I don't know the significance of it.

Anything else I can do?

 

does it have a Dell logo on the label or a Seagate label?

thanks

 

That's the thing - it's got a seagate sticker (despite the fact that I ordered the dell drive) and the firmware number is the same as the one for which Audizzz posted benchmarks. Your thoughts?

 

i think you lucked out!

 

What you mean?
He got lucky or he got unlucky?

 

I dont understand why everyone thinks there is a difference.
Dell does not manufacture harddrives. Seagate does.
If you ever look at a Lenovo, the harddrive also says Lenovo on it. Lenovo does not make the drive. Its just a label used, so that the manufacturer knows that that drive came with the laptop, etc.
There should be and is no difference between a Dell branded seagate momentus and a normal seagate momentus

K-TRON

 

xor01, he got lucky.

K-TRON, we all agree they're the same drive. But the Seagate-branded drive comes with the 3-year warranty to the Dell Momentus' 1 year.

If the lifespans of the original batch of 7200.4's is any indication, 3 years of warranty > > > > 1 year.

 

For your consideration:

My 5K500B's in raid 0:


A fellow Vaio AW owner's 7200.4's in raid 0:


so far, much closer than I expect a 7200rpm HDD to be to a 5400rpm. hoping he posts CDM benchmarks too. I can't say I see a reason for spending ~$50 extra per unit for the 7200.4's. at least, not based on the bench in HDTune.

 

interesting his cpu usage is listed as a negative value.
Almost makes it look like those hdtune benchies from your AW friend were photoshopped or hdtune has issues with RAID configurations

Crystalmark is good, but honestly PCMarK05/ Vantage is the way to go to get real life benchmarks

K-TRON

 

oh really? added that as a request. hopefully he can get to it.

and could that CPU reading have just been an anomaly?

 

The flatter curve of the 7200.4s is interesting as if they have limited the maximum data throughput for technical reasons.

Also try SiSoftware Sandra.

John

 

Although PCMark/Vantage simulates real world use and real world applications, it is still a synthetic benchmark. It is better than most synthetic benchmarks though.