Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid HDD w/ built-in 4GB SSD

Thank you, thank you, thank you Regli! It worked and clean up the bad sector. I would have hated to try to do a return this time of year.

Upvote of your reputation. You deserve it.

 

I'm glad it worked for you.

 

Too long. I recommend a clean install. Use Avast, Avira or MSE for virus scans. Install the latest Intel RST 10.*.

 

that slow boot time is most probably influenced by nav and steam. in my experience it sometimes takes steam a while to connect to servers so im thinking that it could be the main culprit for your excessively long boot up.
set steam not to start on windows startup and as phil said change your av. you should see an appreciable decrease in boot times.

 

Well I get Norton antivirus for free so I'm not inclined to change that. I will try reinstalling intel RST and see if that helps. Also, I was under the impression that running a defrag would wipe the SSD memory making it "relearn," but after defragging to drive I kept getting 40 second startup times (starting with the first reboot; it did not speed up each time). However, I ran HDtach and the random access time decreased after the first run; it started at about 19 ms (which seems kind of high...) and then went down to 1.8 ms, which indicates that the SSD is working at least somewhat.

I'm not looking for opinions on my antivirus and steam (not running steam at startup is not an option since I use it all of the time); I just want to know if my drive is broken or not and if if needs to be replaced.

 

You also get viruses for free too - do you keep those installed?

I recommend MSE v2.0.

As for steam - just disable it for at least a half dozen boots to see if it makes a difference in your boot times.

I'm curious - how long does steam take to start on an already running system? Is it so long that you need it running before the computer has finished booting properly?

 

I really don't appreciate comments on my choice of antivirus. The norton product that I use is clearly not the most efficient product, but it has received fairly decent reviews and protects my computer just as well as Avira, which I have also used. I really don't feel like downgrading to nagware like Avira when I get a full suite for free without ads. I'm not the biggest fan of norton, but it works; and I would rather not switch to the Microsoft product.
Like I said before I am not looking for ways to speed up my startup by disabling programs; I'm not so impatient that I am not willing to wait a few more seconds for the AV and steam, so i'll ask you to please keep your opinions on those products to yourself for the purposes of answering my question. However, I WOULD like to know if the drive itself is functioning as it should, i.e. the SSD is doing what it is supposed to. From what I have read defragging the HDD is supposed to clear the SSD necessitating a "relearning," but this doesn't seem to be the case on my drive as it booted in 37 seconds after defrag, then 37 seconds for the next 5 startups.

I also tried disabling steam on startup, but BootTimer still measures a startup of 37 seconds. Steam takes a negligible amount of time to start up; I just don't like having to start it up manually. Either way, it doesn't seem to be adding to the boot time as measured by BootTimer somehow (although this doesn't completely make sense).

 

have you considered hibernation if startup time is a concern ?

 

Wow, really touchy are we?

You ask for advice but tell us how to give it.

You are also contradicting yourself about not caring about a 'few seconds' longer startup time - that is/was your original question, no?

Anyway, if you don't want to uninstall the virus called Norton A/V and see how a better/lighter A/V product like MSE (with no nagware) performs on your system, then yes, your startup times are 'normal' - for your specific system setup.

To put this in perspective for you - I have Win7x64 Ultimate with 8GB RAM and my partitioned (see below) XT and it Reboots in less than 40 seconds - with a P8400 CPU (really, pretty low end cpu right now).

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...-hitachi-7k500-benchmark-setup-specifics.html


As to whether the nand is actually functioning on your system (with your defragging tests) that is not a good indicator.

First, is this just the built-in defrag that Windows offers? If so, it is not really doing anything past the first few defrags.

Second, how long are you letting the system idle between reboots?

Thirdly, your HDTach tests shows (to me) that the nand is working as it should.

To see the defrag work (or at least it's effect on the nand) - consider downloading the PerfectDisk fragger (not the defragger...) and see if your boot times increase.

See:
PerfectDisk 11 Utilities and Tools


Download the first link (scramble.zip)


Hope you get some use out of the info above - even if I didn't follow your 'reply guidelines'.

 

I used auslogics for the disk defrag because the windows utility doesn't really show much. So you are saying that I need to fragment the drive using that utility for the defragging to reset the solid state portion of the drive? Thanks for the help; I just get annoyed by antiviruses because there is always so much conflicting info about what works, and one year a product may be good, but the same product next year might be much worse than the competition and what I have now works fine for the most part. Perhaps I will give WSE a try, but right now I just want to make sure that the momentus XT is doing its job to speed up the computer and its boot time.

Also, what settings should I use for the fragmentation?

 

the reason why people keep on asking you to uninstall/disable your av and steam is because doing so may give defenite answers to your question as to whether there is something wrong with your drive.
in my experience, steam sometimes takes as long as 40 seconds itself to load. this is most likely influenced by server congestion on steams part, and poor isp performance where i live. it is however strange that you still have the same boot times even with steam not set to start on win startup.
what version norton av are you using? it seems like no one here really has experience with NAV and cannot give youa definite answer whether those long boot times are an effect of NAV itself. iirc the older version of nav are resource hogs and take a while to load but the newest version is not.
i also use auslogics disk defrag and i get my best results with this defragger.
for boot up time ive notced that you see the benefits after 5 reboots. in your post i think you mentioned you did 5 reboots only. try doing a series of 8 to 10 and see if there is noticeable differences between the first and last reboots.
lastly it would be a good idea to check your startup programs and services to see whether there are other items causing the prolonged boot time.
hope that somehow helps.

 

OK I used the fragment generator then used auslogics to defrag. These are the following boot times I got according to boot timer (note there are some anomalies):
1. 56 seconds
2. 41
3. 31.8
4. 48.4 (not really sure about this one)
5. 41
6. 32.6
7. 31
8. 29.6
9. 27
10. 27
11. 31
12. 29

It seems to be hovering around the 30 second mark now, which is a 10 second improvement form before. Steam seems to delay its startup a little; boot timer reports the boot time before steam has usually started up. However, I can execute programs fine at this time so it seems to be "booted." I think that boot timer includes the time it takes me to enter my password, so the slight fluctuations in boot time towards the end could be due to this.

 

there is a definite speedup in boot time. it definitely does include time to log on/enter password which shouldnt be more than a few seconds. i definitely think you have a functioning drive, its just some processes and startup programs thats keeping your times a little long.
also check for application updater services and programs on startup. i usually disable those too

 

Norton is likely to slow down your boots so we comment on it. I don't see any reason to prefer it above Avast.

The nag screen in Avira can easily be disabled. Avira gets the best detection rates. I prefer the interface of MSE and Avast personally.

With a clean install I'd expect boot times below 20 seconds.

 

Same here. I have a mish mash of Avast and MSE between my computers. Norton and McAfee have done nothing but act as malware themselves on machines I've tried.

 

Wow, not another Anti-Virus bash. Norton is a good product along with many others. Norton does not have as big of a hit on your system as you think, it may not be the best, but diffently not the worst, and should not be a factor in his question. I have used both, and in real world usage, no diffrence what so ever.

Here is a link that shows reboot time increases by different AV's, MSE was not one of them, I tried to find one but could not.

AntiVirus Performance Testing - System Usage Tests for 2010/2011

 

Those numbers don't seem to be for the free versions. But enough AV talk for now, let's move back on topic again.

For more discussion about Anti Virus software use the appropriate forum please: http://forum.notebookreview.com/security-anti-virus-software/

 

I installed the OS clean and it only has programs I usually run on it. I may eventually re image my OS to how it was right after I installed windows, but that will have essentially the same programs installed (although the registry may not be quite as cluttered). However my computer has not slowed down at all, so I feel no need to do that yet.

 

went from a 320 hitachi 7200rpm 16mb cache to the seagate momentus xt 500gb. I honestly don't see any increase in performance at all. What are you guys using to benchmark for win7x64? It's also a lot noisier IMO and I upgraded firmware to v24 right out of the box. I did clone it though, too many programs, settings, routing, vlans, virtual machines for me to do over. I used linux based Clonezilla to clone my drives. Update this constant clicking? is really annoying I think I might return this. Is there a tool, acoustic management? I though v24 fixed this. It's no so much clicking as the drive seems to be in constant search or something.

 

I am curious if there is a speed difference between a fresh install and an Acronis image install? My drive feels very fast as-is but I cloned it from my old 7200 Seagate.

Any ideas?

 

The XT can be relatively noisy that's true.

have you measured your boottimes? if so, what are the times for the first, second and third reboot? (boottimer.exe can measure it)

are you running the latest Intel RST 10? recommended.

 

if it is clicking there is an issue with the drive. time to get another, I have two of them and 0 clicking. My first drive was a clicking issue amongst other issues as well..........

 

I'm very interested in this hybrid drive and is my first time doing short stroking. I've several questions:

1. Do I do it via the default Windows partitioning wizard?

2a. The unallocated space "behind" the boot partition, can I still use it as a storage/archive files?
2b. Will it affect performance, if i format the unallocated
space and use it?

3. Since its a 4 platter, can it be safe to assume that I short stroke it 25% -- > 125gB? Or am I missing out something? How do I determine optimal space for short stroking?

4. Am I right to assume a Raid-0 WD Scorpio Black will be faster than the XT in all manner except boot-time?

Thanks

 

yeah no clicking. Just it's sounds like it's "searching" I don't know, I've only had it a few days, definitely noiser for no perceived performance increase so far(but my 7200rpm 320gb 16mb cache was pretty fast). I guess I should give it some time. What free benchmarking utils are you guys using? Used to use hdtach but that's a no go on win7x64

 

is there anyway to disable aam or set it to performance mode without the use of a desktop?

 

It is a dual platter me thinks. and yes you can shrtstroke, that is how I run mine on my U81-a...............

 

If you installed HD Tune, you should be able to do it on your laptop.

BTW did you ever try my USB stick method of the firmware upgrade?

 

i cant change any aam settings on my xt. i think it was also you who said you switched to a desktop in order to fiddle with the aam settings.

i had a friend burn the cd instead and thats what i used. but i do appreciate the assistance. im sure it will be of help for a few other people too.

 

I have just upgraded the firmware , I found out that Hdtune 4.6 is not able to run. Is it only me ?

And also, whenever I boot to windows it will give a beep sound...is this normal?

 

is there a firmware out for this and is it worth doing?

 

i have the same problem with HD tune 4.6. even after a clean remove and re-install process it refuses to start, showing some unknown error..

and aam is only supported with SD24...

 

Finally upgraded both to SD24, I see no real difference though. Then again I haven't gone looking very hard for one.

 

So, pulled the trigger on an 500GB XT, which is going into an eeePC 1215n.

Let's see how it'll turn out.

 

i own one and its better than an ordinary sata hdd i had before, had to wait till my budget comes and will buy an ssd for boot programs storage

 

Just a quick short stroking test by me

 

hehe I enjoy going back to the first page posts

 

LOL, he's not alone, funny how your "gut reaction" can be soooo wrong

 

Hi,
This isn't the entire story. When you have the first partition short stroked and the second partition set for archiving and data you gain more in another way. As you continue to save data and update the system, ie daily usage, you start spreading the files all over the drive.

As these files become more spread you start increasing, or even creating, seek times between these files. This will slow the drives access down much more than just siimple read time. For this reason I use about a 120 GB partition for the primary OS and program drive. I then use th remaining partition for all user Data folders except the desktop folder.

As I download, save work etc it is all at the secondary partiton in this way.........................

 

Nah, I left the unformatted space to be unallocated. So I dun have to be worry on the spread of files. And I also done a random access test, the difference is only 1.3+++ ms( 125 vs 250)

 

If you can live with just the short stroked space that is fine. I have 100+ GB of picture/video files from my cameras. While I could archive them to off system storage I don't have to with all the space right now.

You will find others with even more agressive partitioning stratagies. I am quite sure they will yeild even better results but it seems the more partitions the returns become fewer and further between. This could even come to the point of actually slowing the system down.

For that reason I tend to go with just the two partitions as it for me yeilds a good performance boost without the complexities of other stratagies.

Now for my daughters LT3103 I have it all as one drive. I do not keep up with her system so this works out the best. I finally found a L310 for her and ordered it. While still not a C2D, a dual core over the stock L110 should make the system even better for her casual usage.

 

What? There's SD24 firmware? Where did u get it?

Panther214

 

Alright so I'm going to go ahead and install my new Momentus XT. I'm going to use the CMS Transfer Kit since it's a newer version and the software should be about the same as the Disc Wizard by Seagate.

So I assume I just make the transfer, then swap Hard Drives and I'm all set right?

Also, when should I upgrade the firmware? Right after I finish the clone? (How do I check my current firmware version?)

And lastly, are there any settings in particular that need to be enabled? I have Intel RST 10 installed.

Thanks

 

Once you transfer over the drive there are some decisions and slight tweaks.

1.) Run CrystalDiskInfo for FW version.
a.) update as required, you already have the backup on the 250GB

2.) you are coming from a 250GB. You should decide if you are going single or multi partition and size out the partitions accordingly.

3.) go to device manager and enable disk caching and writeback if not enabled.

Pretty much enjoy form there after a few reboots

 

Perfect! Thank you so much. I did the transfer, it worked great. I installed the new Firmware and everything seems to be running good. I did a defrag and now I'll reboot it a few times and things should be perfect

I went to device manager and "Enable write caching on this device" is enabled.

Where do you find "aam and power options" ?

Thanks


BTW, question regarding Intel RST: Right when I boot up, in the notification area of the task bar it shows the icon for Intel RST and it says not running and shows a blue loading circle for a few minutes. After about 2-3 min it shows the green check and is running. Is this normal?

 

He joined 12/7 posted only once 12/10 and nothing about his configuration anywhere so I will venture to guess he has Raid setup and there by more options available. Also RST controls cache etc too when you have volumes setup.

Even with a SSD it takes a few for the UI to initialize. This is normal, the drivers are running but the User Interface takes a while to initialize.

 

Alright sounds good. Thanks for all the help. The drive is running great and I'm a happy camper

 

i updated to d24

The first thing that happened was the drive went into spin down.

For my machine when that happens you have to unplug it and take the battery out OR wait 10 minutes.

I hate that

So I have 24 installed, I have hd tune.

I want to change two settings

I want to turn spin down OFF. my non momentus xt seagate 500 gb drive did the same thing when it was my boot drive. I hate it. I want to turn this safety feature off. My wds, toshibas fujitsus didnt do this only these two seagates do it.

Next I want to change the settings for sound management to completely off, maximum performance and noise.

I cant see where to change these settings can someone tell me?


Also the boot time after this update is loooong like minutes. first performance tests show it slowing the drive down

 

You first might want to see if you have access to the Seagate Dashboard software. It will allow you to disable the spindown.

Failing that you can resort to the much more risky hdparm utility. But note from the Wiki:

hdparm has a more serious drawback: it can crash a computer and make data on its disk inaccessible if certain parameters are misused. Out of approximately sixty-seven parameters, several are dangerous and could result in "massive filesystem corruption" when used indiscriminately.

Before using hdparm it is important to read its man page, and (if testing any of its dangerous parameters) to have a full backup of everything on the drive.

The newest versions are available under Linux only (as far as I can find) but an older version (2007) of a native Windows port (non Cygwin) is available as well that may be of help.

Index of /hdparm

Check out the -Z and -M options.

sample usage to check out the AAM level for the first drive:

hdparm -M /dev/hda

Hope this helps.

 

Pls accept my apologize if this been answered!
What will happen when the 4GB go dead? Will the hdd work as a normal hdd?
Thanks
Happy New Year

 

Yes, although given that it's SLC, the physical platters are probably more likely to die before the NAND. According to Seagate the NAND should last over 5 years.

And Happy New Year to you as well.