Sound Card advice: Best USB or ExpressCard

Ok first post so here goes!

I've recently aquired a set of Logitech z5500's (actually they are in the mail) and obviously I want to be able to feed them with an appropriate signal

I have a Dell XPS m1710 and needless to say the onboard sound just ain't gonna cut it. Not only does it not support 5.1, but lets be honest... not the greatest chipset lol.

So I want to get a good USB or Expresscard sound card. I started looking into things and the first thing that came up to me was the Sound Blaster X-Fi... however after some digging I didn't like what I was reading: lacking chipset, all software processing etc. So this is where you guys come in.

I'm not looking to spend a fortune preferably under $150. It doesn't have to have an absurd ammount of inputs or anything (I'm not a DJ). Im a huge music buff and want to listen to some crisp clean sound. I also play games, mostly WoW.. but I may do the the occasional FPS game so EAX support would be nice but not critical.

What would you guys recommend? I would appreciate any first hand experience.

Thanks in advance guys!!!

p.s - Why can't they just put some decent sound in a $3k laptop to start with?? lol

 

Under Vista your options are limited, with everything being OpenAL it's always going to be a combination of software and hardware processing.

You need XP if you want something that works at the hardware (HAL) level. Main thing is to look for quality parts. Rigth now laptops are very limited in their selection, the XFi isnt that bad actually and probably your best bet for your price range, but really it depends on what you're looking to achieve. Reality is you options become much better with XP. As for the quality that laptops ship with I like the realtek on this Fujitsu, but then again I specifically scoped it out for it's audio support, and for it's ability to support both PCMCIA and ExpressCard so I could keep my Audigy2ZS for my DVD-A discs.

 

Creative's Soundblaster X-Fi with surround sound adapter.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A1164635

http://us.creative.com/products/pro...&campid=20445&WT.cg_n=Campaigns&WT.mc_id=3862

 

Dont go for Creative IMO. Their products are of cheap build quality & they get damaged & they dont even repair it for you.

 

Hmm, interesting considering I've been using that card for the greater part of a year and have had no problems at all.
It's just common sense; don't abuse it, remember to take it out when transporting the laptop, and it should last a long time.

 

Oh, Really?

So what is your recommendation?

Creative doesn't not have the build quality of someone like RME, but I've never found their parts to be more defective than any other IHV like Turtle Beach, M-Audio or even other from other areas like ATi & nVidia.

There aren't many choices out there for Vista laptops, right now the XFi is one of the better options for most people despite being very limited like already mentioned.

 

Ok guys thanks for the replies....

I was hoping to hear that I had some more options than that but oh well, what can ya do right??

 

The biggest issue with the ExpressCard and PCMCIA Creative cards is that they do no audio processing in hardware (ie., op-amps, DSP, etc.). All of this is done by the software that comes with the card. So you get no offload from your CPU. If you're gaming, this makes the purchase worth very little, because there will be no hardware-accelerated 3D positional audio. For further information, check this review:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/03/review_video_creative_xfi/

You may be able to find an external USB card with the necessary chips to do the work. Creative may even make one, but look at the specs and hardware review websites before buying; Creative often doesn't make it clear whether you're getting a card that can accelerate DirectSound3D in hardware, or whether it's a software-based solution.

Finally, if you're serious about audio or gaming audio, you'll want to run Windows XP. There are some issues with Vista that cause contention between network I/O and sound processing, plus Vista no longer uses DirectSound3D.

 

http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/audio-advantage-srm/home.aspx

< Not a fan of Creatives. But then I also have a habit of overspending on audio

 

I'm well aware of the advantages of XP believe me Unfortunately I am forced to use Vista for the majority of my work and testing.

New solutions.. now this is the kind of response I'm talking about Thanks MaloS. Do you use this card personaly? Pros? Cons? Nothing is perfect so lemme know. Thanks

 

Actually hardware accelerated EAX 4.0 is supported UNDER XP, under vista it's all sofware for ALL cards to some extent including the desktops, they all have to translate through Open AL. While I'm not sure about the XFi for XP I know that the Audigy2ZS does fully support hardware accelerated EAX effects. Once again however it's limited to XP only, it's software under Vista.

Terrible review with little information other than pretty much a general impression and they didn't even mention what the limitations were caused by. But considering his comments I'd say they're primarily Vista issues. I like Will Harris' contributions in other areas especially participation in TWIT, but that review offered me little information.

Hey if you want the best sound quality to need either an EMU or ECHO product but they're still PCMCIA and over twice the price, or an external breakout box which adds bulk along with the price and while adding overhead if it's USB and not firewire, plus you still get no hardware accelerated gaming effects in either XP or Vista now. So while I prefer other solutions for better audio quality if you can tell the difference, for gaming, there's really little benefit, especially since he's sending it out via optical connection to an external decoder. Heck if he has an optical out on the Dell just use that, because you'll get minimal benefit over that.

That's true, but anyone familiar with the situation knows it's an OS limitation more than a hardware limitation. And if you go on Creative's site, they don't even mention half of the features supported by the 2ZS because they don't work under Vista anymore and since that's the primary destination for most of these expresscard solutions, why cause more confusion?

What would be interesting to note is if the XFi at least has the same level of acceleration as the 2ZS which does work under XP thanks to access to the hardware abstraction layer.

BTW, I love turtlebeach's products on the desktop space but their portable options are a little wanting as USB sticks, and the external solutions don't live up to the quality of others that equally don't accelerate EAX.

So for the OP's needs, the XFi SUCKS but just a little less than similar other options. the only way I'd recommend something else is if he were an audiophile looking for analogue connections.

 

If you're just looking for other options, go with the Amigo from TurtleBeach instead, it offers all the same benefits as the SRM (except the skype/conferencing mic features) and is cheaper and more portable. Unless you need the analogue outputas and inputs or optional IR remote, the Amigo would be a better choice IMO;
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/amigo/home.aspx

 

I've been working with Creative products since the SoundBlaster 1.5 in 1992 --and while I like Creative Labs, there's a reason they call two of theirproducts "XtremeAudio". The desktop version of the XtremeAudio, for example, does not even use a true X-Fi processor (thus, no heatsink, and a fancy sticker to cover the chip itself); rather, it uses a tweaked version of the Audigy SE chip, (which, unfortunately, isn't even an Audigy/Audigy2 processor), and as such, lacks a hardware DSP. Creative relies on the software to do the job. Note that for this reason, the card lacks EAX support in hardware; the link to their product page says the following:

"The Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio is the ideal sound card for music and movies. For gaming, please consider the other Sound Blaster X-Fi products."

In the same vein, the ExpressCard XtremeAudio. Note from Wikipedia:

The market segment occupied by the XtremeMusic was moved downwards, with the introduction of the (cheaper) 'Xtreme Audio' and 'Xtreme Audio Notebook' products, which, despite the "X-Fi" label, are the only products in the X-Fi line not using the EMU20K1 chip (CA20K1)[3] (CA0106-WBTLF)[4] and thus lacking the hardware acceleration of 3D sound and EAX sound effects, gaming and content creation features and the I/O extensibility of all the other X-Fi models. Despite the name, the Xtreme Gamer card offers a better signal-to-noise ratio and lower total harmonic distortion than the Xtreme Audio, and is hence a better card even purely for music use, though the marketing of the two products suggests that Creative believes the cheaper product to be adequate for most users.

I didn't say the review I supplied was the best; at the same time, it isn't wrong. The Register is a major UK IT site, and Creative would have no problem going after them legally if what they had to say wasn't factual.

I'm sure the card is okay if you want to listen to MP3's, though most laptop audio can do that reasonably well already. Its most practical use is for 5.1 playback for movies, which doesn't require any horsepower on the card's end. But it's not a gaming sound card; neither is it a real professional recording/editing card either. On the other hand, the Audigy 2 NX does support EAX Advanced HD, and has some truly nice connections, even though it also does not use the EMU 10k chip that the other Audigy, and much of its work is done through software as well.

I think that in the end, it's hard to find a notebook sound card that truly improves on what is already in notebooks. That's not saying that notebook audio is stellar --what it's saying is that aftermarket solutions aren't a ton better, even though they may provide a lot of connectivity. Personally, the thought of paying $60-100 for what amounts to mostly software and a pass-through for it is just a little galling; I also find it disappointing that Creative Labs would use the X-Fi brand to sell sound solutions that don't use a true X-Fi processor in them.

Trust me --to use your words, I "am familiar with the situation".

 

Yes I understand, and I have similarly long experience with them since the original ISA days also as well as early laptop support in the original thinkpads. However, for any acceleration there is no other option.
I'm not saying they're better than intrgrated, heck I prefer the realtek pn my Fujitsu for alot of things and looked hard for quality support with DTS-connect options, but the only thing that will ever offer true hardware EAX4.0 acceleration and not 3.0 software assist will be the Audigy mobile solutions (and only through XP), I agree with many about the sound quality being better on other solutions, but since he's not going analogue out to either the headphones or to discrete inputs, and using the Logitech processor anyways, I see no advantage. That would be like recommending an expensive solution just to do LPCM digital passthrough, no advantage over something that just supports it without all the other nice bells and whistles.

I don't disagree about the register being quality site, I've read them for ages, and like I said I respect Will's other work, but IMO it's confusing the hardware limitations with the software ones imposed on all hardware that weren't there on XP.

If you look at reviews by places like XbitLabs, Extremetech and such you'll see that there is acceleration available to the 2ZS, but under vista they all lose those features (asterix galore on the 2ZS' feature list under Vista). Alchemy just makes most of those solutions software based again for the old hardware.

Anywoo, my personal opinion is NOT pro Creative, it would actually be to see if he couldn't use the onboard audio, but because the Logitechs use a Toslink interface, then a mini-toslink connector would be required, so either the TurtleBeach Amigo or the XFi could do that, and if he wants any chance at hardware acceleration I'd say go with the XFi, not because I'm a fan (see my other post about the 2ZS and Oblivion), but because for his specific needs it was the best match. BUT since he wants to stick with Vista he loses that benefit, so really the cheapest mini-jack compatible solution is my suggestion unless he goes back, and the Amigo is likely the best fit there with a quality maker, good features, and a lower price to get the optical output.

Anywhoo, belieive me I also have alot of experience with creative, and I DON'T like them (their purchase of Sensaura after the threat of lawsuits, and lawsuits against nV's soundstorm and Id, killed gaming audio innovation IMO), but unfortunately this segment has less options after vista not more IMO despit the promises of OpenAL, and while other solutions are avilable for better plain audio/music, for gaming it's still a one horse race.

Anywhoo, We'll have to agree to disagree I guess.
To me Creative sucks, but it's like saying Windows sucks, yes they do, but we're kinda stuck with them for the most gaming options.

 

I used to have echo indigo(PCMCIA) and sound quality was awesome. But then I dropped my laptop and my sound card broke. Their customer service sucks big time.

Audiophiles over at headfi seem to like EMU0404 USB.

 

Yeah exactly they are awesome products for audio quality, but do little for gaming.

I would consider getting the EMU myself because the RME Hammerfall setup I have access to doesn't like the new PCMCIA adapter on more C2D laptops (that even have PCMCIA instead of Expresscard).

I hear great things about the EMU USB, but my requirements and usage are much lower than they use to be, so for the few times I'd need (personal home video work mainly) it I'd probably just pop into the media lab at the Uni anyways.

 

Does any one know which one of the would be the better choice overall? regardless of its price or if one is bulkier than the other, I'm concerned with performance and capability.

Sound Blaster X-fi USB
http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=17751&nav=1
Sound Blaster X-fi ExpressCard
http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=16642

 

Alright, so if one is not going 5.1 and sticking to stereo? Everyone sounds like they know a good suggestion for stereo; but it seems taboo to say it?

 

I didnt realize finding a sound card for my computer was gonna be such a pain ha

 

For gamers the X-FI Xpress card from creative DOES add EAX 4.0 effects, like the Audigy card. (A normal laptop sound card only has EAX 2.0)

But until now no product for laptops offers X-FI's EAX 5.0, (True 3D sound in normal headphones, and the "ultra-high" setting in BF2).

Is that correct?