The new SSD Thread (Benchmarks, Brands, News and Advice)

if i go for the transcend ones, would it be even slower than my original 5400 drive?
I know they are MLC and slow, but i'm more concerned about the less power consumption, and price, so speed really isn't important to me

 

The transcend SATA SSD is very slow. It took over 2 hours to install Windows XP SP2 using the 32 gb SATA. Now I just use the drive as an external drive. The IDE version is faster than the SATA version.

 

So what hard drive are you using now?
Why don't you sell it and get it bigger external?

I wanna make the switch because my current hard drive is warming up the palmrest a lot, and the transcend is just under 200 bucks
or will any 32gb SSDs drop to around 200 bucks in the next few months?

 

For a Christmas/Birthday Present my parents bought me a 64 GB Samsung SSD so I'm using that in my NC8430. Took 20 minutes to install Windows XP. I would rather have a external drive that has no moving parts than one that does.

 

found at Direct to Dell, Let the games begin...

Improved SSD Performance Coming Soon
Fri. Feb. 15, 2008

Since before Lionel first blogged about solid state drives (SSD) on Latitude laptops, we were seeing interest the technology from our customers. Back in March, IdeaStorm user tablet205 submitted an idea called Solid State Drives as option in Notebooks. We've seen comments from Direct2Dell readers like Nick who is looking forward to performance gains. Since then, we've expanded the offering to XPS and Dell Precision mobile workstations.

Though SSD technology is new and will have growing pains, we believe in flash technology because of what it can enable. The technology could completely change the way we think about notebook design, for example. Because flash is essentially a "circuit board" we can put it in one or several locations in a notebook chassis and can revolutionize the way notebooks are designed. This means thinner, lighter and more durable designs with performance that can compete with desktops.

In various conversations that we've seen, three areas emerge where SSDs can stand some improvements:

Performance - most first generation SSDs perform near 5,400 RPM drive levels
Capacity - Originally available in 32 GB size, we've seen that double to 64 GB and one of the capacity points in sight is 128 GB
Price - these drives do command a hefty price tag, but over time we expect it to decline as the technology evolves and more mainstream adoption occurs
You will see us rolling out projects that improve on all these areas. Today, I wanted to let our customers know that in the coming weeks we will be launching the Dell Flash Ultra Performance SSD based on Samsung's SATA II-SSD technology, available in 32GB and 64GB capacities, which will leave traditional notebook hard drives in the dust. This generation of SSDs delivers on the hype we've all read about: reliability, durability AND performance.

Our labs benchmarked this drive in a Latitude notebook and saw a 35 percent overall system performance increase over a standard 2.5-inch 5400rpm notebook hard drive using SYSmark ‘07. That's even more impressive when you realize that the difference between standard 5400 rpm and performance 7200rpm drives (in the same generation) is 10 percent on average. And just for fun, we did a shootout between the new SSD and a few desktop drives and, well, let's just say that the performance gap is becoming a thing of the past. Preliminary tests showed that this drive outperformed a 10,000 RPM desktop drive in overall system performance!

Now you're thinking... "Great, but how can anyone possibly pay more for these ultra performance SSDs than current ones?" That's the best part, the drive got a lot smarter, not a lot more expensive. Dell and Samsung engineers optimized the way data is handled and drastically improved performance to an "awe-worthy" level without adding much more cost to the drive.

We'll roll this drive out in the coming weeks across our Dell Precision, Latitude and Alienware and XPS laptops. Look for updates very soon. In the meantime, we would love to hear your thoughts on SSD and how you think it could change the future of laptops.

In laments terms, this means the new Samsungs will probably perform at a level equal or better than whats happening with most of the other manufacturers who need to move to mlc (multi level cell) form factors to get the higher capacities. I would predict their read write to be about 90r/50w given what is said in the release. Their claims presently are 120r/100wr which would be a great feat considering they are not raising prices according to their release.

This is happening remarkably close to announcement expected to be made by Mtron regarding 64Gb ssds in the next few days. They expect to rop prices by about 40% on their ssds in mlc form factor (1000 series at www.mtron.net)

 

Although the MLC version of SSDs are slower, they still offer better performance and battery life than a traditional HDD?

Or do I have it all wrong?

SLC = Faster but low capacity
MLC = Slower but higher capacity

 

SLC is faster and better than MLC.

 

Yes, the MLC will run you about 40-50MB/s write and 80-90MB/s read. The secret which I have explained in several threads now comes from the disk access time. The .1ms disk access time of the ssd is 150 times faster than a typical 15ms HD access time.

If I get the time maybe I will put a video together showing how fast things occur with an ssd...

 

Wonderful thread. Thank you very much for it. You note that a price drop is imminent on the 64GB SSDs. Do you have any idea when this would be apparent in current laptop models? For example, would we likely see a major price drop in the Sony TZ series (shipping with 64GB drives) in the next few months, or will this take longer to roll out?

 

I cant speak for Sony but the thread above shows Dell will be significantly increasing the performance of their 64Gb wit no price increase.

Mtron will be making an announcement shortly which may include 1.8" ssds...lets just wait a bit.

 

Thank you. I'll wait a bit and see

 

I'm excited about the Mtron 1000 series. Sounds like a viable solution for us consumers.

 

Shortly?
Wow.

I should have checked this forum before transforming my HDD to a CF SSD... :S

 

Any chance we can get some benchies of SSD raid?

I currently run a P6831 (as my gaming laptop) with Raid 0 (hitachi 200gb 7,200) and the numbers going from single HD to Raid 0 HD are greatly improved.

I can only guess at how much going from single SSD to Raid SSD will be. Now if only the prices will come down

 

Interesting... Let's hope that it's an orderable option soon too

 

Here ya go.... Mtron Pro at Raid 0. More can be found here.




Also regarding RAID, Dell just released a customer survey on Dell.com asking if it would be feasible to put ssd in more systems and then if customers would be interested in the configurable options of RAID here.

 

Somebody on one of the threads also wanted to see a comparison of an ssd to a raptor...

 

Flamenko:

One thing that should be pointed out is that when you are comparing as in the last chart that the interface types are a theoretical maximum which usually isn't reached in real world operation.

Perhaps as SSD gets more cost effective and faster this will change

Also, was the RAID0 test across 2, 4 or 8 drives?

 

Hi there.

I own a Sandisk UATA 5000 32GB, 1,8", in a 2710p (making this laptop the best I ever owned ), but I can't find any firmware update for this SSD. I read Flamenko saying that it could be available through Dell, but mine came from eBay, used in a HP, they would just tell me to hit the road...

Has anyone any information, link, or file ? Thanks

 

I actually have not been able to find it aswell.

If it's working properly and not brining your system down to a hault at times, then you probably have a good one and don't need a firmware upgrade.

 

Well, you've got a point, but it seems that the write speed has been enhanced, that would make the drive even more lovable than it is now.

Sure I won't move mountains to obtain it, but hey, if it's free and worth it... !

 

It is 8 drives and i couldnt resist with a score that high. I included the link to where they can be found. With respect to real life scoring, I have tested te Mtron Pro extensively and all my benchmarking is included at the beginning of this article.

An regarding the Sandisk drives... I spoke with Dell on no less than 4 occasions regarding this as I had heard this as well. They have guaranteed I am one of the first to know if they get it. They are very well aware of the problem associated with this drive and it can be seen all over the Dell website.

 

I registered my SSD online, at Sandisk's, let's see what happens next !

 

Any news on the Mtron 1000 series yet?

 

I have been speaking with Mtron a few times in the last couple of days and it looks like the 1000 series is delayed until the beginning of March. Im told I will be the first to get all the information, including pricing, prior to release.

I am privy to another 1.8" high performance SSD from Mtron that will be released in April as well. Lots going on...just not exactly yet.

EDIT... Stay tuned for an article I'm hoping to get in by next week which will ssist alot on SSD information.

 

Hi, Im looking for a 1.8" ssd with micro ata connector - the "toshiba" type. I know about this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147021&CMP=AFC-C8Junction
but am wondering if this:
http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/storage/news/article.php/3668136
ever made it to production? Any news? All the new ssds that come out have either a zif connector or are sata...

 

The 64GB model from Samsung has a zif connection.

 

Very interesting info from DVNATION. WOW.

"SSDs have been around for decades. But it is only in 2007 where the prices came down while performance skyrocketed. The Chinese are NOT "me too" in this case. You see, there are only a few NAND Flash chip makers in the world. The most notable is Samsung. Companies such as Memoright, MTRON, Toshiba, and Sandisk all buy these NANDs, but that is only PART of the equation. The other part is the onboard controller. That is what each end-company must develop. That is why a Memoright SSD can write at over 100MB/s while no other SSD can..Even if it has the same NAND flash chips! Other factors go into the design. Does the manufacturer use a lot of low capacity NANDs, or just a few, newer high-capacity NANDs? How does that affect longevity in of the SSD according to their own design? See, there are many things that separate a true SSD from a cheap flash stick...

All these manufacturers are fighting over the same source of NAND chips. That is what keeps the price where it is today. Supply and demand...Regardless of what you thing X GB of NAND flash memory costs. But we can talk pricing in another post. Suffice it to say, we talked to all the SSD makers at CES this year, and the dealer pricing of their PROPOSED SSDs is the same as what we are paying for Memoright and MTRON SSDs...Only, all the new players are playing catch-up and won't hit the current speeds of Memoright and MTRON SSDs anytime soon. And Memoright is distancing themselves from the pack. On Feb 28th (just a week from this writing!) they are shipping the first 64GB 2.5" SSDs that can Read AND WRITE at 120MB/s!!!"

Very exciting, Dave

 

Hi All,
An innovative idea and concept for sure. The price is a little steep for most casual users.....BUT in 1989 I added a 40 meg HD to my Tandy 1000 for a whopping $550. In 1997 I bought a Toshiba desktop witha CD R/W drive that added some hundreds of dollars to the price. SOOOO i figure now that the SSD is going mainstream it won;t be long before their costs per gig will be at least comparative to the HDD. Remember that there is one extremely obvious advantage to these SSD devices and that being since there are no moving parts they can endure vibrations and movement that would spell near instant death to a harddrive. Excellent piece on what no doubt will become a standard storage system in the near future.

 

preach:

I hope that prices crater on SSDs as quickly as you feel they are. Personally, I think they're going to remain a premium priced item for another 2-3 years.

For those that are going to be willing to pay the premium (I will when 128GB reaches US$500 or less) it will be a wonderful alternative.

 

Very shortly, you will see SSDs be divided into two levels which may apear to be most obvious by the extreme price difference, but we will also learn that it will hit many other characteristics as well to include the lifespan.

As with car dealers, you are going to see the Acura and the Honda, the Cadillac and the Chevy, the Ford and the....???? (hey, just havin a little fun here).

I will have an article out by next week explaining it all; I expected to finish it earlier by works is overloading me right now.

 

For me and my laptop; I don't have problems with a lower write speed as I'm not doing heavy writes to the disk. If the read speeds stay pretty consistent I don't have an issue with that.

Of course, I wouldn't mind sustained 100 MB/second writes and 120 MB/second reads either

Flamenko:

Speaking of which, in your tests an excellent metric would be load time of the OS. This assumes that the write speed factors into the install time. Given the lack of efficiency of the process I'm not sure it would.


Cheers,

 

Are you speaking of a Vista installation from disk? I have been wondering about finding a good example of practical write spped and wondering if moving say a 5Gb file from DVD to disk would suffice...or something similar. I am always concerned about a bottleneck being created in the medium for transfer. For example, if I used an external drive or DVD, would their capabilities limit the transfer speed?

Conversely, if I edited a video file of severalGb and then hit save, would this suffice between the hd and ssd?

Always a learning game here too.

 

Yes external drives will limit the speed especially a DVD drive which is a lot slower than a HDD. You also may have problems with the interface used for example USB2.0 is v.slow. Even though the theorectical thoughput is up to 480Mbits/s = 60MBytes/s, the real world performance 40MBbytes/s max.

I do think HDtach and other benchmarks are not too far off real transfer speeds.

The problem is finding something that performs better than top end SSD's. Only RAM is faster... Perhaps an Gigabyte i-RAM 2 could be used for the test.

 

Maybe 2 SSD drives in one computer (non raid) and transfer 5GB worth of small mixed files from one to the other? DOC, JPG, XLS, etc.

 

Watch your drive accesses (or listen) and see what goes on. There's no perfect way to test this, but with say a 16x DVD drive that would give you ~18 MB/second sustained. Or to put that in context, 18MB/second is 1GB/minute.

I can't think of a perfect way to test this, frankly. Unless you were going disk --> disk you're probably limited. Can you install Vista or XP from an ISO?

I don't think you could fit Vista into a RAM Disk unless you had about 12-16GB of RAM. XP could be done.

I'm just curious about the timing (all else being equal) to load an OS. I would imagine the lack of spindle could be a nice drop in install time.

Cheers,

 

That doesn't simulate the entire process though. You'd be better served shoving ISO onto the 2nd SSD.

But is this real world, when we don't tend to install disk to disk in this fashion?

 

I've posted a new article which may be able to address some of the questions raised and it can be found here.

Please don't be afraid to ask any questions!

 

i have a question for you, flamenko. i have been thinking about getting a laptop with two hard drives, one a ssd (for the os and programs), and a hdd for storage. i think this may allow me to get the best of both worlds. what do you think of this idea?

i would like a 15.4" model, the only one i can think of that i can stuff two 2.5" drives into is a thinkpad (with an ultrabay). will there be some performance issues with this setup that i don't know about?

 

Its actually a great idea that we are seeing with some Alienware systems. Look around and wait a bit until Mtron announces their release hopefully this week; it may be beneficial to get the ssd secondary and then replace one of the HDs with the ssd

 

awesome. i will probably wait awhile to do this- august probably. that is when all the best deals (imho) are on 'cause of back to school.

i think i will get a laptop which can handle 2 sata drives, but purchase only 1 hdd with the laptop. i will buy the ssd separately and make it the primary drive with no bloatware. can't wait!

when i do get down to the wire on purchasing one of these sweet ssd drives, i'll be sure to hit you up for some more info. cheers.

 

So the consensus is to wait for cheaper drives to come out, right? Will those drives be significantly cheaper than the current $500+ prices out there now?

 

Interesting:

Intel also plans to take on the best from Samsung and BiTMICRO in terms of performance. Samsung's current MLC-based 128GB SATA-II SSD achieves read speeds of 100MB/sec and write speeds of 70MB/sec. "What I can tell you is ours is much better than that," said Winslow in an interview with CNET.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11013

Dave

 

And some more news here:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11064

Dave

 

which chipset supports sata II?

 

At I'd take one for half the MSRP. I wonder how long it will take. I hope it's less than the year the article predicts.

OCZ claims the MSRP for the 32GB and 64GB drives are $599 and $1099, respectively. The drives will start appearing at retailers like Newegg in the coming weeks.

 

Interesting.

I was considering purchasing a refurbed Dell Latitiude 430D with a 32GB SSD hard drive... they seem quite reasonably priced... until I popped into the Dell forums and saw that these drives (or at least Dell's implementation of them) are nightmarish. Incredibly poor performance (worse than 5400 RPM drives) with system freezes occurring when large scale writes are performed.

Technology not yet ready for primetime?

 

The SSD that I have in my notebook run's fine and I've never had a problem with it.

 

I might have missed it in one of the previous pages or other SSD threads, but in laptops is there a noticeable bottleneck in Intel's ICH9R chipset? I vaguely recall someone talking about this before?

http://www.nextlevelhardware.com/storage/battleship/

 

Heavy...

The Sandisk 32Gb ssd has alot of complaints which include pausing and low read/write speeds. I know of some that work fine, however, as well.

sgogeta4.... I just received this from Mtron...

I received your question about Mobi with RAID 0 configuration in Intel ICH 9R controller.

It is possible to combine Mobi into a RAID 0 array in Intel ICH 9R controller.

However, as for the high performance, the controller has to support ATA 133 (UDMA mode 6).

Intel manufacturing chipsets (ICH8, ICH9) doesn't support a mode of UDMA6 (ATA133).

Except for Intel, the other manufactures (AMD, nVidia, via, sis, etc) almost support the mode of UDMA6(ATA133).

So, this lower performance looks to be occurred by using Intel board

including the ICH8, 9 chipsets.