thermal paste

i was wondering how the ideal layer of thermal paste should be.
i used to always just cover the core with a healthy amount of compound so that none of the die is exposed.

but today i kind of went an alternate route. i spread out my paste with just a thin film, basically thin enough that i can still see the text on the chips. is this enough?

 

Thin layer is all you need, but not to thin

 

The point of thermal paste is to fill the microscopic gaps found in the contacting surfaces of the CPU and its heatsink. Ideally you want a very thin, very even layer such that when the heatsink is pressed onto the processor, it has direct contact wherever possible and sufficient thermal paste where direct contact is not possible. Errr, that was a pretty poorly worded post; the short answer is yes.

 

yay okay i guess i did it right

 

Too much and it will actually block the heat being transferred

 

Like butter on bread, not like frosting on cake mmmmmmm cake

 

You need to spread as thin a layer as possible.

 

This is very bad advice you guys are giving, especially considering that the original poster never specified the manufacture of the paste he is using. For example, Arctic Silver has very specific instructions of the application of their AS5 TIM. Offering bad advice like this can actually hinder the thermal transfer properties of heat between the CPU and the HSF assembly.

That depends on the manufacture of the thermal paste you used. Most companies have specific instructions related to the application of their thermal paste in order to acheive optimum results. Putting too much on, or not following the directions, as Jaguar mentioned, can have detrimental effects on your processor. Let us know the manfacture and type of thermal paste you used, as well as the CPU you applied your paste to so we can help you further.

 

thermal paste is good to use, but you dont really need it. You will read stories online about people who do not use paste, and say that their processor fries instantly. They are lying.
You can run a processor without any paste at all and it will run fine. It will run slightly cooler with paste because there will be less of an air gap between the cpu and the heatsink.
For example, I run two AMD Quad 2347's without any paste and they peak around 120F without any paste at all. I can probably have them run cooler with paste, but I do not see the need at the moment.

K-TRON

 

K-TRON said is true! even if u dont put thermal paste, it will still works well with temperature still acceptable.

majority processor and heatsink, they r all mostly flat. only a small percentage isnt flat only.

about the thermal paste spread on the processor, actually dont need to spread out evenly. most importantly, the little bit(i always use rice grain amount) of thermal paste must be in the center, after tat when u place it down n lock it, it will eventually spread out evenly.

IMO, i tink it will be more worse if u were to spread out the paste. becos if u never level it flat, it will create a small hole pocket after the heatsink is locked.

but well, all people have their way of doing it.

 

I have yet to hear of a thermal paste that you're supposed to plaster onto the CPU die with a trowel. Assuming you are correct, you should have an easy time finding a thermal paste that has such application instructions. Thanks for the link in advance, btw.

 

I guess you've never had experience running a P4 Prescott before. Please understand that I am not saying that processors will fry instantly without TIM, however, what I am saying is that without TIM, your processor's lifespan will be reduced dramatically.

 

It looks like you didnt read my post. My Opterons use as much power as pentium 4's and mine runs extremely cool without any paste. I run my cpu's at 100% load for weeks on end crunching for world community grid. I monitor temperatures all of the time. I have a Fluke 574 infrared temperature reader and my ASUS probe is reading the right cpu temperatures

K-TRON

 

Looks like you didn't read my post. We're not talking about power consumption. We're talking about the heat that CPU's generate under load.

*EDIT* Nice editing your post, BTW.

 

I dont see your point, all processors get hot. I agree thermal paste will drop temperatures, but it is not necessary when your heatsink and processor are very close to being perfectly flat.
In my case I dont bother with paste because I clean my heatsinks every week or so and the amount of paste I would need and the time it takes to properly clean the old paste off would take much too long

K-TRON

 

Yeah... some more than others. Like the Intel Pentium 4 Prescott. I'm sure you'll recollect the amount of heat (no pun intended) Intel received for manufacturing a processor that ran so hot that enthusiasts refused to put them in their builds.

LINK 1
LINK 2

Dropping CPU temperatures is always important, even if by a few degrees. The number one killer of computer electronics is heat, pure and simple. Why wouldn't you want to maximize the longevity of your CPU by using TIM? You're only cutting your processor's lifespan short by not doing so.

 

For criss sakes, you just won't give up, will you? The point, K-Tron, is that some processors require TIM because if they do not, they will burn up. I don't care if you have AMD proc's that don't need TIM and run cool. What I care about is proving you wrong that some procs do.

No, because quite frankly, I don't care.

 

What I personally think,
Thermal paste is recommended because it fills in the microscopic air pockets between the cpu and the heatsink. No matter how flat the heatsink lies on the cpu there will be air bubbles. Silver is more conductive than air, so when you apply the paste, and push the heatsink down you force the air bubbles out, and silver fills in those pores. Silver is more conductive thus lowering the temperature.
I recommend paste for any laptop application because heatsink manufacturing is always more difficult due to constraints in size, thickness and they usually cover multiple chipsets. On a desktop or server you can get away without paste because their are bigger heatsinks. I do not use paste because my temperatures are fine under load, and if I were to change the paste every time I cleaned my heatsink I would pay a few $$$ a year on paste alone.

I hope this answers your question,
good paste to use is Arctic Silver 5, Arctic Cooling MX-2 and Tuniq TQ-2

EDIT:
You know what, I am done with this thread. Believe what you want. Garetjax just always has to disagree with me all of the time. I do not know what he has against me, but it has been prevalent over the last few months

K-TRON

 

lol wow i did not expect this thread to grow into this. anyways yea it would make sense that as long as the cpu surface and the heatsink are both relative flat, then there should be enough contact so that thermal paste isn't needed.

thermal paste i guess isnt actually required in a sense i guess because the paste itself is a horrible conductor compared to metal.

anyways to those who are curious, I removed the AS5 that i had applied last year and replaced it with TIM Consultants TC-0098 grease. it's supposed to be the best on the market right now. But in all seriousness, I don't see a temperature drop between this and AS5. Both of these are much better than what my Macbook pro originally came with though.

 

The following might interest you, taken from HERE:

 

a small dab that is spread evenly across the die will do the job.

 

I'm still waiting for my link.

 

@garet

yea i know. i was talking about if the two surfaces are relatively perfect, then the contact area will be good enough that filling up the holes, whose area is probably tiny compared to the actual contacted area, probably wont make that big of a difference.

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/printarticle.php?id=134

 

Excellent link! =)

 

Im not commenting about temperatures with or without a thermal paste, but you know, those tiny holes can make up significant part of the area. Even when the surface feels smooth, its really a mountain range up close. We could talk about as much as 50% not being in direct contact when looked at though microscope or something.

 

and you are wrong about as5 also. here are the instructions for use:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/as5/ins_as5_singlecore_expsd.pdf

even arctic silver recc the same as everyone here has done a very very thin layer to be spread across the die on an exposed die. please read the instructions. every one here who recc this is 100% correct. you only are not required to spread evenly a thin layer on a cpu with a heatspreader. in that case you can put a drop about the size of rice and let the pressure of the heatsink spread it for you.

 

OK, a serious question if I may. I get that the paste is supposed to fill in the gaps, as it were - but if the smooth-appearing suface in reality has microscopic gaps, then won't the paste also have microscopic air pockets, etc, also? I'm guessing the idea here is that it's still better or increases heat transfer overall vs. no paste and just air, but I'm having trouble getting mny mind around it, since it seems to be that there'd be air in the bottom of those microscopic holes, so there still would be air in the way preventing a direct connection either between heatsink and CPU, or heatsink, paste, and CPU.

Not sure if that made sense - it may be, as my wife likes to say to me, "one of those things that only makes sense in YOUR head, dear!"...

 

The microscopic gaps are filled with thermal paste which has better conduction than air. While there will still be some air pockets, it won't be as big as the gap that the thermal paste now fills. Draw a diagram if it helps.

 

Sure, there might be airbubbles in the material, but the heat will still transfer through the material much more effectively than just air.
Think of hot oven, the air inside doesn't feel hot, but try touching that metal.. even if both are at the same temperature.

 

lol... no, I understand the basics, I guess I just figured that if the gaps were microscopic, that the thermal paste may not fill them, either (after all, the air won't have anywhere to go, so essentially it'd be an air-filled crevice, with a layer of thermal paste on it...)

I'm not arguing effectiveness at all - I'm a newbie, but I've tried to read up (as I very much want to build myself a desktop system someday!) and everything I've read says the thermal paste is the way to go to get the best performacne out of your heat sink.

I think the real answer is - I'm overthinking this, and all I need to know is thermal paste works!

 

Sorry, read kinda wrong But yeah, it works.

 

Uh, no I'm not. You linked the instructions for an AMD processor with an exposed single core. Since the original poster never initially specified what kind of processor he has or the type of TIM he is using, arbitrarily advising him (as people have done in this thread) to cover the entire surface of the CPU with TIM is foolish without knowing the specifics first.

 

lol no that is for intel AND amd exposed core did you actually read them. should i quote the instructions for you? and seriously come on this is a notebook forum 99.9% he has a exposed core chip. even if he had a chip with a heatspreader if he didnt know how to apply it correctly he would BE SAFER to cover the whole thing with a VERY THIN coat then to glob it on there in one spot. it makes no difference on ANY CHIP as long as you keep it thin.

THE ONLY EXECPTION to NEEDING it to be super thin is the newer style of hdt type heatsinks. these have the heatpipes directly touching the heatspreader. these require the gaps to be filled between the heatpipes and the surrounding surfaces first. then the best method is to apply two lines to these and then let the heatpipes spread the tim. i have been doing this for 16 years. i have directly spoken to and met the people at arctic silver and can assure you this is the same advice they will give anyone.

 

okay here you go. YOU ARE WRONG...and even with a heatspreader it doesnt matter you could do this same process it will not hurt anything as long as its kept very thin...here are some pics from the instructions to PROVE we are right i use as5 and others EVERY DAY.

sorry man..see the fourth pic it clearly states .003 to .005 thick. read it "about equal to the thickness of about 1 sheet of standard weight paper"

also see the statement "properly lapped heatsinks with mirror finishes will only require a translucent haze" i.e. thin enough you can see through it....

 

I personally know Bill Gates. Does that make my wang bigger than yours? Regardless, you simply are not choosing to read and comprehend what I am saying. Manufacturers have certain methods in which you should apply their TIM, respective to the processor you're using. The OP did not specify a processor or TIM in his initial post, and everybody immeadiately told him to put a layer on, which is bad advice when no one knows what processor he was using nor TIM he was applying.

Now please, stop with your insistence that you are (read have to be) correct, and quit derailing this thread any further.

 

lol dude whatever you are the one who just cant be wrong here.. anyway im sure everyone else will agree with me..i simply stated facts and gave PROOF. WHERE'S yours? people have proven that even toothpaste and olive oil can be used for tim..among other things including peanut butter....yes you read that right

 

Again, you are off topic and further derailing the thread. This conversation has nothing to do with alternate substitutes of TIM on a processor. At this point, you're boring me... and I am moving on.

 

see ya..........

 

No kidding, would hate to see you try to get the last word in. In many tongues it's called stubborness.

 

but you are still here?

 

Why not? You haven't contributed anything constructive to this thread as far as I know.

 

no i only showed him the proper way with pictures and full instructions of exactly how he should apply his paste. mods close this thing already.. what did you contribute???

 

Alright, this thread has gone off-topic and is now closed.