True or false: Having a graphics card makes a laptop run MUCH hotter.

I was browsing the Internet, trying to figure out what to look for in buying a PC that runs cool (or at least, not overheating and shutting down). Anyway, I came across a post that said that having a dedicated graphics card makes a laptop run MUCH hotter than integrated graphics. This means that laptops with dedicated graphics cards are much more prone to overheating?

So is this true or was it some horribly misinformed person?

 

True.

But it's not just having a graphics card. If your laptop has switchable graphics then it won't make a notebook run hotter when just internet browsing/doing light stuff. The dedicated graphics card only adds heat when it's under load, like when gaming.

It also depends on the cooling system of the notebook itself. I daresay most notebooks with dedicated graphics have no overheating problems.

 

Well part of it is true that dedicated card can be hotter and when using graphic intense programs will be hotter than integrated since, well lets face it, integrated graphics will not play Witcher 2 or Metro 2033 on ultra. But on the other hand, dedicated graphics card can handle loads more heat and will not over heat.

Its like comparing airplane turbine to car engine. Sure the turbine will go faster and will be hotter, but mechanically, its made to withstand those temps.

In summary, dedicated will use more electricity increasing heat, but will not over heat unless its broken or themopaste is improperly applied.

 

It wasn't misinformation, but it may not have been stated as precisely as it could have. As a student of communication I can appreciate how important this is.

In any event, buying a PC that runs cool is like buy a car that runs cool. In other words, it's not possible. Although some do run cooler than other. Still, since cars like computers aren't static devices, a lot depends on the load. Since heat is an inherent by-product of the cards operation, the harder it works, the more heat will be generated.

Discrete graphic are simply bigger and more powerful so you can do more. However, if you tax your graphics card (regardless of size) it will naturally generate more heat. In this case, the important thing is to keep it as cool as possible. An air conditioned room might be your first step (which is why in businesses computers are always air conditioned)

Also, it's important to keep the air underneath your laptop flowing where it gets real hot. In extreme or heavy use cases, you may need to augment the internal fans with a laptop cooler.

 

It really depends on the computer. Of course an Alienware will keep the GTX 580M cooler than a 599 Acer with a 5650. It's not really [comparable] because you are comparing apples to oranges.

Overall, yes discreet GPU makes your laptop run hot, or it expels so much heat it heats up your room (my GTX 580 turns my room into a sweltering sauna).

 

Haha try owning a Phat 60gb PS3! The room turns to hell!

The graphics card will only get hot under stress. Under normal operation my 6990m is only a little bit warmer than my integrated intel gfx. under load though, it does get significantly hotter. But with switchable graphics you are able to control this very easily. just get a laptop that has a good cooling system, as temperatures vary from laptop to laptop. I have a toshiba P305 with a radeon 3470 and a msi 1722 with a 9600m gt. the 9600m gt is a much faster card, but it still runs cooler than the 3470. It all depends on how well the laptop was engineered. so pick a laptop that is known to be good at keeping cool.

 

Hmm... switchable graphics card? I haven't heard of this yet.

Okay, well it's good to know that the majority of the time having a dedicated graphics card isn't detrimental to the system.

However, I'd like to point out that there are many cheaply-made computers out there (think cheap laptops at WalMart). If buying cheap, would it be better to get a laptop with an integrated graphics card rather than a dedicated graphics card to ensure that the laptop doesn't overheat due to cheap parts?

 

Switchable graphics are common in mid- to high-end laptops with a good discrete chip. For example, I have an Alienware M11x. It has a great battery when I'm doing regular work because Nvidia Optimus automatically switches from the GT 540M to the integrated Intel chip when I don't need the extra graphical boost. Then it switches back to the discrete chip when I boot up a graphically-intensive game like the Witcher 2. Thus, I get decent battery life when gaming and get all-day battery when I'm just doing light tasks.
As for cheap laptops with discrete chips overheating due to cheap parts, that shouldn't be much of a problem. You won't see many discrete GPUs in cheap laptops (under ~$600-$700) because most people buying those laptops don't need much graphical muscle, leading the manufacturers to typically put in an integrated chip. Now, you're starting to see entry-level discrete chips appear more frequently in cheap laptops with the introduction of the AMD APUs (processor and discrete graphics on one chip), but those laptops still aren't very common under $700. If you do happen to see a cheap laptop with a discrete chip, overheating is still HIGHLY unlikely unless you try do some intense gaming and push the machine far too hard.
So, to make a long story short, you don't need to worry about it much.

 

Ahh okay. I was just wondering about the connection because overheating was a bit of a problem in my laptop and it had a dedicated graphics card and an AMD processor.

When buying another laptop, I'll definitely look for a switchable graphics card. How does one tell if a laptop has a switchable graphics card? Is it like on the Apple website where the MacBook Pro is listed with two graphics cards (one integrated, one dedicated)? I really haven't seen it listed like that anywhere else... but I haven't looked that deep yet.

 

Yeah, forget Apple if you want a cool running system.

What you're looking for is Optimus - which has the automatic switching technology (better than rebooting to switch igpu/dgpu modes).

 

Yup, that's pretty much it. Optimus is fantastic...I've been using my current laptop for a month now and Optimus has never used the wrong chip. Not once. So Nvidia has really perfected whatever method they use to determine which GPU to use.

Are you planning on doing any heavy work on it, though (video editing, gaming, etc.)? If you're not, you might as well save a few hundred dollars and get a laptop with only an integrated chip. If you do need a discrete chip, you should definitely look for Optimus. It's a pretty important feature, so most laptops with it will have it displayed fairly-obviously on their feature list. The MacBooks don't have Optimus (they have manual GPU switching) because the new generation uses the AMD GPUs, and only Nvidia GPUs use Optimus because Optimus is made by Nvidia.

 

Well... I suppose I'm not really worried about it running hot... I'm worried about overheating. If it runs hot and it runs, then great. But if it runs hot then shuts down, not great.

My question was... do the MacBook Pros have switchable graphics cards? I'm only asking these because (although I haven't browsed much), I haven't seen other websites list two graphics cards like Apple does. Perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly, but I dunno.

Also, I was wondering how you can tell if a laptop has a switchable graphics card.

 

I just edited. See my above post

 

Ahh... so only Nvidia cards have this feature? I knew I always liked Nvidia.

Also, how does manual switching work?

 

I'm not positive on how manual switching works (as I said, I have Optimus), but I'm pretty sure that you have to click an icon on the taskbar (near the battery meter and such) and select the GPU you want to switch to. In theory, it isn't a big problem, but one of my friends has an Envy, and he said it's really easy to accidentally leave the discrete chip running. Considering a discrete chip drains battery as much as twice as fast as an integrated chip, your battery can get zapped really easily if you forget to switch back to the integrated chip. On the other hand, you also have to remember to switch to the discrete chip prior to booting up graphically-intensive software. If you don't remember to switch the GPU, you'll either wonder why said software is running so poorly, or you'll realize your error and will have to close out and reboot the program.
I'm typing all of this on my Optimus-equipped M11x, and I can't explain how nice it is to have the computer do all of the switching for me. I was just playing StarCraft a minute ago and my computer needed the extra graphical boost so it switched to the Nvidia chip, but when I closed out of it I was immediately put back into power-efficient mode. It's a crucial feature and I highly recommend staying away from manual switching unless absolutely necessary.

 

Haha... sounds like your Alienware has been treating you well.

I'm really not into games that tax a lot out of a video card, so I don't think the manual switching would be a problem for me.... if the laptop I pick actually has this feature. Still, it would be great to pick up a laptop with the automatic switching.

Anyway, thanks for all of the info!

 

One last suggestion: if you're not going to be playing 3D games, I recommend you stick with a laptop without a discrete chip. It'll probably save you $200, and 2D games rarely need much graphical power.

 

Well, I'm not really sure what I'll be playing yet... and I'm not going to be buying this laptop until next year so I didn't really want to make a thread about that yet.

I'm sure by then an integrated video card will be more than enough for my needs.

 

Good decision

 

The newest integrated graphics from Sandy Bridge is pretty potent. Intel HD 3000 almost benchmarks as well as my Vostro 1500's 8600M GT, though if you crank up detail/resolution on integrated graphics, it will choke. It'll run Flash games and do casual gaming just fine.

Just buy a laptop with integrated graphics and build an uber monster gaming desktop like I did, which still beats down 6000 dollar Sagers..

 

No fair, lets not compare apples to orange. Besides, I can lift my Sager with one hand. YOU?



PS I don't actually have a Sager.

Wouldn't that mean the cooling capability is working?

 

I could easily see a laptop with a discrete gpu running **cooler** because the cpu/igp isn't running as hard......

It all depends on how well engineered the cooling heat pipes are.

 

Ya I can lift my Lian Li i7 desktop with 1 hand. 13 lb full tower case vs 29 pound average full tower. Also including 1 kilowatt power supply..

 

I've held off on posting in this thread, but I will only say that I think heat is far more dependant on the cooling system versus having discrete/integrated graphics. Case in point my T410 with integrated graphics overheated twice while playing Crysis (which means the processor reached 100C both times). If it had a far more robust cooling system, I could even have a discrete graphics card and could probably play all day with no worries.

 

Agreed that temps are much more dependent on the cooling system of the laptop.

However, all things being equal (minus the gpu of course), I would say that dedicated graphic cards only increase the temps inside a laptop when doing something that uses the gpu in the first place (such as gaming).
The rest of the time, the gpu downclocks to minimum and saves power, and heat is no issue.
Integrated gpu's are generally underpowered by comparison, so their heat emission won't be the same (but if the cooling is inefficient, then just as it happened with Roger's laptop, heat can become a problem even with an integrated gpu).

General tasks won't really increase the heat emissions one way or the other.
A dedicated gpu can be used under minimal clocks for numerous tasks and jump to it's standard levels when playing a game for example, or it won't use all of it's power for certain tasks.

All in all, temperature levels seem to reach 80 to 85 degrees C with dedicated gpu's of medium/high-end tier when under full load (depends).
If a person also takes steps to undervolt a gpu (if they can do it in the first place), then they can further reduce temps by another 10 to 15 degrees C on stock clocks.

 

defintely not. dedicated graphics have pretty high TDP and their throttling technology is not as efficient as those in the cpu.

the max tdp of gpu's also far exceed most CPU's. i.e cpu would be 24w-35w or 45w for some extreme editions, where else gpu's start at 45w and go up to 65w generally

but, like you said, if the cooling is done well- it dosent matter. a laptop with integrated gfx and poor cooling will most probably run hotter than one with a dedicated gpu and good cooling

 

A 'high tdp' is in no way a guarantee that the chip will always churn out that amount of heat.

tdp is a budget/design number that is used to size cooling elements.

have a look at the desktop gpu tests over at toms. they always make a distinction between max temp caused by long running intensive benchmarking and steady-state temps experienced when running games or run of the mill desktop apps.

look up the tdp numbers for your memory sticks. the info is hard to find but it's out there. you might be surprised.

 

yes yes, obviously its not running at its maximum heat generation level all the time. however its useful as a rough guide as to how hot it will run. so take it with a grain of salt

 

It's not the chip that runs hot, it's the cooling system that doesn't manage it properly. The GPU manufacturers provide specs for cooling and many laptops push the envelope or exceed the recommended specs.

AMD and nVidia both offer manual an automatic switching. You're fooling yourself if you choose one over the other based on brand alone.

 

I have owned 6 Hp laptops and 4 Alienware laptops. I have also owned a Dell, Leveno, and Asus. I can tell you It is all about engeneering and Design. You can have any laptop with any graphics, but of the system design is not up to par to disapate the heat the system overheat. With all the laptop that I have owned Alienware has had the best cooling system of any of them. This is because they take into account the fact that they are GAMMING systems. VERY high end system with very high end engineering. Asus was second although I still got mine to shut down from time to time (overclock junkie)

To answer the orginal question, it does not matter what type of video card is in the system, it is what you do with the system, and the cooling design of the laptop that is going to determine if it over heats.

 

let me put it this way: if a laptop overheats, then it has bad design. Plain and simple.

 

My laptop idles at 38C, load is around 70C, max during stress tests is 82C.

Even compared to most integrated machines, that's not bad.

 

My 130M idles at 45C now, but that is half way clocked, I have a youtube video going on. That is not bad. It is running at v0.9. I had it at v0.85 few days ago and it was down to 30Cs. Not bad.

 

When gaming on something both CPU and GPU intensive on my G73, the max temps are usually ~65CPU and ~75GPU. This is a bit hotter than a well built desktop but nothing to worry about, CPU and GPU are still 35C below throttle temp/shutoff temps. The laptop does feel a bit warm to the touch, but nothing uncomfortable.

Even my N50 which sports only one fan usually hits 50C CPU and 70C GPU when stressed with prime95 + furmark.

As miro_gt said, if a laptop overheats it is either full of dust, thus not properly maintained or simply badly designed.

Most manufacturers seem to get this though. Some throttle their laptops like the Acer 3830TG (shame too), some try to fit high performance components in a thin stylish chassis going for style instead of good cooling (yep, fruit related manufacturer). Most manufacturers end up with one badly designed model anyways so you gotta look for reviews pointing out these flaws.

 

My laptop has a bad design. D:

 

Don't forget that those cooling systems, even if they work well, will have compromises to them e.g. less battery power, more noise from the fans.

 

Not always.

I have an HP g60 an AMD processor with Nvidia Geforce. Overheats like crazy.
My friend has an HP g60 with an Intel processor w/ Intel GMA. Doesn't overheat, very quiet and mildly cool.

Same laptop, different processor and graphics cards. Huge difference.

 

There is a difference, but part of the cost should go into an improved heatsink.

 

HP may have changed the cooling somewhat without changing the chassis between revisions. The more likely explanation though is that your laptop has higher TDP components and the cooling system wasn't designed to handle them. Bad thermal design doesn't mean the design itself is flawed, only that the balance between components and cooling is bad.

 

Yes, a laptop that overheats at stock specifications is poorly designed. Always.

If your g60 can't handle the internals without overheating, it shouldn't have been released with that configuration.

Unless you're mistaking "getting hot" for "overheating". Overheating means that the temperatures produced exceed operating tolerances and have an adverse effect on the machine, possibly causing it to shut down to prevent damage.