Upgrading my laptop Hard Drive

Hey all,

So, I've done a lot of homework and research into this, and since my birthday is coming up, I've decided that I want to upgrade my laptop hard drive for something bigger, stronger, and better.

I own an HP HDX 16t (see signature for specs), and have been happy with it for a while. But being the perfectionist I am, I thought that 320GB of memory is barely adequate for my music and movies, so I'm going to upgrade.

I've decided to use the caddy system that people are talking about so much, and to see how that would work, with a combination of SSD and HDD.

My first question is: Isn't having two HD's of different speeds going to cause problems with your computer? I have one 7200RPM HD right now, but adding an SSD would lead to different speeds, so I'm not sure how that would work out.

Second question: I have a Blu-Ray reader Optical drive in my system right now, I'm wondering if the OBHD is compatible with that?

Third Question: Since the Blu-Ray drive is new technology, would the 'hot-swappable' feature work fine with the system? I would really like to use both my Blu-Ray drive (one of the biggest reasons why I chose my laptop) and to use that caddy without problems.

Fourth question: How do I get my current OS and programs onto the new SSD? I've heard something about disk cloning, and am looking for information about how to do that safely. I'm not currently worried about losing any information, since I have all my music, documents, movies, etc., safely backed up.

This is what I am looking for:

Hard drive: Already figured out...getting the best one in the business. The Hitachi 7K500 Travelstar.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145275

Solid State Drive: This is getting a little dicey...I'm fine with either 64GB or 80GB (would that capacity be enough for my OS and programs?), but am looking for a read speed of 250 MB/s and a write speed of 170 MB/s. I would preferably like to keep the price under $200, and what would be icing on the cake is if it came from Intel.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010150636 1421445225

OBHD Caddy: I'd like something that would work with my HDX 16t...I'm not sure, but I think I've found it.

http://newmodeus.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_5&products_id=204

So, what do you guys think? Is it a good idea? Yes, I'm sure that my laptop is perfectly fine as it is, and having a 7200RPM drive is sufficient for my needs, but if I can upgrade, I'd like to entertain that possibility.

Any advice, guides, observations and info would be greatly appreciated. Since I have a lot of time till my birthday, I'm going to continue doing research on this upgrade, and will see where it takes me.

Thanks, all.

Mr. Mysterious

P.S. This helped me tremendously...thank you for all the information:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=388625

 

1) No problem in your case.
2) Don't see why it wouldn't be, it's not like the mobo is diff.
3) Don't see the problem if you can detach it right now and put it back in then you should be able to.
4) You can clone, or just install windows and your programs again.

 

Thanks for replying!

In response to your answer to #4, I do have a Windows 7 installation disc, that came when I checked the "Free Windows 7 installation" option while I was buying my laptop. Would that suffice?

BUT...Windows 7 does not support Blu-Ray playback, which is the main reason why I switched back to Vista (otherwise, everything was fine with W7....I liked it just as much as I liked Vista. Yes, I liked Vista. I'll say it again. Liked. Vista). So what do you suggest I do?

Mr. Mysterious

 

acronis true image is great backup software and allows you to clone a drive too. very easy to do

 

Right, I read about that...There's a trial version, and a full-blown version too. I might have to buy that whole thing, even though I'm probably only going to use it only once. But that didn't answer my question now, did it?

Would my Windows 7 installation disc work on a completely blank hard drive?

Mr. Mysterious

 

Yes it will work on a blank drive. As for your blu-ray situation, look for third party software that will support it.

 

I did, the cheapest (good) option was $100. I already paid for Blu-Ray playback, with the software included, when I first bought my laptop...I shouldn't have to pay for it again, especially when I have everything that I need.

So, how would that work? I have a blank HDD in my computer, with no OS, no software, nothing...turn it on, insert the Win7 installation disc....and then what? :S

Mr. Mysterious

 

I'm not understanding, you already paid for blu-ray playback... so where is it now?

 

I already paid for blu-ray playback on VISTA...but once I installed Win7, and inserted a blu-ray disk, it wasn't able to play anything back...although CDs and DVDs were fine.

Mr. Mysterious

 

Hmmm. I'm not sure then, as I don't really know or care much about having blu-ray, although it is nice.

 

Yeah, well...It's important to me.

Ok, any other answers, anyone?

Any suggestions on the SSD and my requirements for the speeds?

Mr. Mysterious

 

Go for the first option in the newegg link that you linked. Intel X25-M G2 80GB OEM version. It will meet your read speeds but it's a tad slow on the write side. Still, currently the best SSD according to what I've read. Don't take me for an expert, I've just been reading a lot about it. I just purchased mine on Friday in fact, expecting it Monday or Tuesday. It will be above 200$ though, a little less than 240$ with taxes and free shipping.

 

Lol, what're you talking about, the write speed is less than half of what I'm looking for...yeah, I know intel is the best, but the speed is the name of the game when it comes to SSDs, isn't it?

Plus, it's wayyyy too expensive...Hopefully, the price will come down in three months. I'll keep looking until then.

Mr. Mysterious

 

If you think that's expensive then just stick with the hitachi 7k500, cause this SSD is one of the best performers at a good price. They will go down eventually, but that's always the case and then it's not gonna be so neat anymore compared to the bigger guns.

Basically, don't go for SSDs if you're not willing to may a hefty price for one. Or at least a good one.

 

Well...I'm dead set on an SSD, but considering the economy, I'm naturally in a very thrifty mode.

Can anyone tell me how they replaced their HDD with an SSD without losing their OS and the programs and the data? Does the SSD come with instructions on how to do that?

Mr. Mysterious

 

Basically, you need to have your HDD and your SSD both hooked up to your computer at the same time. Then you need to run a cloning utility (such as the previously mentioned Acronis), which will basically just copy over your HDD to your SSD. There are certain SSD packages (like the Kingston SSD-Now series) that will come with an enclosure and software to do just that, but in your case, since you're already planning on going with the ODD-HDD caddy, you might as well go ahead and get that first, so you can plug in both your HDD and SSD and clone directly that way.

 

I would like to note that I had troubles getting the trial version of Acronis to clone my HDD... I'm not sure why; I ran the boot disk and I got some sort of error message stating cloning wasn't supported in the trial. Maybe I missed a step or two; I'm not totally sure.

the utility I ended up using is called HDClone, which also runs off a boot disk. I've already imaged two drives like this program and have had absolutely no problems with it. The free version works perfectly, but was a little slow. try Acronis first as I'm sure it's faster, but if you're having trouble getting it to work HDClone is a great freeware alternative.

You shouldn't have any problems mixing HDD speeds in your notebook. However, if you're copying files from drive to drive you'll be running at the limitations of the slower drive. For example:

I'm putting two HDDs into my T400. the primary drive's going to be a 500GB, 7200RPM HDD. The secondary drive's going to be a 5400RPM, 640GB drive. If I copy from the 500GB drive to the 640GB drive(or vice versa), I'm limited by the slower drive's speed. However, if I'm running an application off the 500GB drive, it'll be faster than the slower 640GB drive. You'll have the same situation with running a fast SSD and the Hitachi 7k500.

If you're cloning your OS drive to an SSD, all you need to do is to make sure you have more free space on your existing OS drive than the capacity on your SSD. Obviously, you're not going to be able to stuff 320GB of stuff on a 128GB SDD... hehe. Otherwise, it should work like cloning a standard HDD.

 

Thanks, you two! You've helped me out plenty. I'll be sure to check out HDClone, and I'll try your advice about having the HDD and SSD connected to my laptop.

So, does anyone know about a good SSD that has a capacity of 80GB or under, is under $225, has a read speed of +200MB/s, a write speed of +130MB/s, and has a long warranty? Lol

I've been reading and reading...And I've come down to two choices:

1) I can go for the Intel X25-M at 80GB, and have excellent customer support, higher capacity and slower speeds. More expensive option.

2) Or, I can go for the OCZ Vertex 60GB, have so-so customer support, lower capacity and higher speeds. Cheaper option.

What do you guys think?

Mr. Mysterious

 

Okay, you seem dead set on believing that higher sequential speeds are better.

Note: you're wrong.

You really should check out the SSD thread.

The Intel is by far the best performance bet for your notebook. Unless you're copying/moving/editing video with it, the sequential speeds are inconsequential for real world use (and 'feel').

I would only consider the 60GB model if I was positive I wouldn't use more than about 28GB total space (50% filled). Only then can it hope to stay faster than the Intel with the 'bad' specs/benchmarks you believe too much in.

Even then (ensuring I'm using less than 28GB 'ever'), I still wouldn't take a chance on the OCZ SSD if availability of the system is a concern for you (drives have been known to just 'die' for no apparent reason).

Good luck.

 

Wow, I didn't know that...thanks. I really did try to read as much of the SSD thread (both original and current one) but it's just so much information @_@. I'll be choosing the 80GB version of the Intel....but I'm only going to be putting my OS(es) (Vista and Windows 7) on the SSD, and the rest of the info is going to go on the 7k500.

I'll heed your advice and go for the Intel X25-M G2. Thanks so much!

I guess this puts the final piece in the puzzle for me. I know prices are going to come down in three months (but I can't wait!) and I'll enjoy my system even more then.

Unless...does anyone disagree with the choice of the Caddy that I had chosen in the OP?

Mr. Mysterious

 

So, I talked to a couple of people, and if I'm purely interested in speed, then which one would be better:

1) A hybrid system with a 7k500 and an SSD (intel)

or

2) 2 7k500's in RAID 0 array?

What do you guys think?

Mr. Mysterious

 

1) A few people have noted that running an SSD with a mech. HD actually slows down the SSD. Maybe this is just a perception issue (when the program switches from the much faster SSD to the mech. HD to access the stored data), but I can see how this would not 'feel' optimal. Of course, the best is two SSD's (mostly just for capacity - I still would not RAID them).

2) RAID0? Hmmm... I've outgrown that a decade or so ago. Don't get me wrong, the benchmarks are something to boast about (and, btw, I have tested with more recent hardware like my VRaptors & Raptors), but real world gains - nothing to write home about.

Unless: you are copying files back and forth from a similarly configured system (RAID0) over GBLan or eSata connection - or - you are editing/copying/moving video files around.

Other than that, RAID0 is simply a waste of time (and a problem waiting to happen).

The 7K500 HD is amazing. I would get two (if my notebook could use both internally) and not use RAID0.

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=442289&page=2

Post 11 on page 2 is my thoughts of a two drive setup. I would recommend reading the first post too if you want to actually proceed with these suggestions.

Bring a pot of coffee and...

Enjoy the read.

 

IMO , get the intel G2 80GB SSD as ur boot drive and get a 500GB Hitachi 7K500 as ur secondary data drive... best option IMO... RAID's too slow... and RAID 0 is dangerous as u have a high chance of loosing data if u adruptly shut down etc..

 

Pure speed? Option 1. 2 7K500s in RAID 0 will be faster than a single 7K500 (not twice as fast, which would be the theoretical speed, due to processing overhead), but even the increased speed of the RAID array won't match the speed of the SSD. As long as all of your applications are on the SSD, and not the HDD, things will run very, very quickly.

Of course, the downside is that Option 1 will cost you about, oh, 2-4 times as much as option 2, and won't give you nearly as much space. You do pay for that speed...

 

there is no bluray playback in vista. it's an additional software the manufacturer installed for you. he should provide you that software package, and it should work just fine on win7.

 

Oh, I do plan on putting the OS and all the applications on the SSD, and reserve the hard data for my HDD. That should work, yes? I'm starting to have doubts about the RAID 0, considering how many people are warning about it's potential to fail. But then again, I'm not doing anything heavy like video editing on my computer. The most demanding thing would be to play games (which I will check beforehand that they will run at a smooth FPS on my laptop).

Well, yeah. It's called MediaSmart software on the HP website, and the point is, I could play blu rays on Vista. But now I tried playing Blu-Ray on Win7 (after experimenting with dual boot) and it plays fine! Yay for firmware.

Now, I'm just running Windows 7 on my machine, and I'm pretty happy with it. Everything's pretty speedy. I'm not sure how much faster it can possibly get, lol, when I add an SSD in there. Should be BLAZING.

Mr. Mysterious

 

I went with the 7k500's in Raid 0. Got a little more IO vs non raid, I saturate my external 7200rpm hdd over eSATA. I would, barring price, go with the fastest 256gb ssd I could find and put the 7k500 as the second drive. Or maybe one of the 12.5mm 1TB laptop drives..

As for the dual 7k500's
Benched them here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5888314&postcount=336

 

Just to make sure, you're saying that a couple of 7k500's in RAID 0 formation will not reach speeds that are faster than the SSD/HDD combo? (Sorry, I tried, but I made very little sense of the benchmarks)

Thanks for that! I started this thread as a kind of guide for people who want to use my suggested configuration...

Namely putting a low capacity and cheap SSD as a main drive for the OS and applications...and a 7k500 monster for the majority of other data. I'll put up a link to the caddy information in my OP..

Mr. Mysterious

 

Just so you understand, RAID 0 was invented as a solution way back when HDs were lethargically slow. Nowadays, that no longer a major issue (for most applications), but people seem to find it difficult to let go of old habits.

Like HDD, not all SSDs are created equally. Their speed is not necessarily inherent, rather, a factor of their manufacturing process. It is very possible to have an SSD that is actually "slower" than a quality HD.

Incidentally, if all you're going to do is put your OS on the SSD, why would you spend the extra money for a high capacity one? Since W7 only occupies < 20GB, that seem like an awful waste of SSD space.

 

there are different factors for performance.

one is, how much data/time your storage solution can push. a raid0 and a good ssd will be similar, something around/above 200MB/s.

but another thing is, how fast is the storage solution capable of jumping to some data to quickly read it? it's what's called latency. a raid0 has the same latency as a single hdd. it is around 12-15ms mostly. a good ssd can have a latency of 0.065ms, so it's MUCH faster at jumping to data. this results to much faster reactions and thus much faster performance, when ever different data spread around has to be accessed.

and the trick is, this is about all the time the case. and this is why ssd result in a much more responsive system than any form of hdd combination ever can.


edit: oh, and, raid0 is very bad in terms of reliability. you'd have to set up a good backup solution. else you'd hate yourself if one of the two hdds dies, and your whole tb or so of data gets lost.

 

All true, except as in most cases with these testimonials, it's only half the story. For one, SSDs are prohibitively expensive. And two, they're notoriously slow at writing.

Yes, that would be unfortunate, wouldn't it?

 

expensive, yes. slow at writing, no. software installations in general are all much faster on my ssd than on a hdd. and they contain mostly just writes. you can get ssds that have 200MB/s write speed. you can't get a hdd with that.

interestingly, the intel ssds have quite a low write cap (100MB/s on the 160gb one, 80MB/s on the 80gb one). but while that might sound slow, there aren't much hdds being able to do it faster really.

and in test, it shows that the fast random writes (MUCH FASTER than any hdd. by orders of magnitude faster) happen to be, again, very important. and one of the main reason software installations are so much faster on an ssd.

but yes, they are not cheap. but prices are getting acceptable by now. take your laptop. at it's cost, one can discuss spending 250$ for a fast system disk. esp. for systems that can still have a secondary hdd (or networked or what ever solution to fullfill any storage needs).

 

Becauuuuuuse....the extra 60GB is 'just in case'. I like to have a bit of room for mistakes and such. Plus, I know that the more free memory there is, the better the SSD performs.

Gotcha. RAID 0 bad, SSD good.

That's the point of this thread, so that I (and others) can find out more information about SSD possibilities and other information. The alternative is to go through around 500+ pages of the SSD thread, which is actually not helpful in that kind of capacity.

Mr. Mysterious

 

I am one of the others, following and learning right along with you here mrmysterious66, later this month I plan to do very much the same thing to my DELL Inspiron 1720, so I very much appreciate the information given in this thread; hope you keep posting after you make your decisions and do the upgrade and I will try to do the same

 

You're welcome, bud. Not sure if I'll keep this thread alive after I make my upgrades, but I'll try, lol.

Mr. Mysterious

 

Been doing a lot of thinking about my choices...and I've come to the following conclusion.

If I do go for the 2 HDDs, then I'll be doing it for the sheer capacity (1TB in a laptop, OMG), and not the speed. But I'm not gonna risk RAID 0, at least not yet.

And if I go for the SSD+HDD combo, then it'll obviously be all about the speed.

Questions, comments?

Mr. Mysterious

 

Hurry up already, mrmysterious66, I thought the decision was SSD?

I am working in Saudi Arabia, going on vacation in 9 days and I need to order some drives this week so they will be ready and waiting for me; I was hoping to read about your installation before then

I looked at my 2 x 160GB drives and found C: = 140GB full and D: = 30GB full, definitely the SSD + HDD combo for me

Just need to decide for the SSD, 60GB or 80GB and which brand; not all available that easy online in Australia - anyone reading from there with shopping advice?

Good luck

 

That's pretty much the point of the 2 combinations, except that if you're really going for pure speed, it'd be 2 SSDs in RAID 0.

 

2 SSD's in RAID0 would be super fast... like max read speed would be 500MB/s...

 

Lol, I'm not sure if you read my OP, snowman, but I am upgrading my laptop for my birthday, which is in 3 months....Sooo...that's going to be a long, long time.

It's in my nature that I like to get things done beforehand, to have a little bit of 'wiggle room' in everything I do. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that people were waiting on me to make a decision lol. Now I feel like I'm under pressure! (Nah, not really jk)

Mr. Mysterious

That'll be like...wayyyyyy overkill for me. I'm not doing anything intensive on my laptop....One of my previous posts on this thread had said that the worst thing I'm gonna do is to play games on it....which will most likely tax the CPU and GPU.

For now, I'm gonna stick with the SSD+HDD combo.

Mr. Mysterious

 

@ mrmysterious66, are you still following this thread? I nearly forgot about it!
Anyway, I have put an OCZ 60GB, SSD in my DELL 1720, and put Windows 7 on that, boots up very, very quickly now.
Then I put a Hitachi Travelstar 250GB, 7,200 rpm HDD in for my data and also install the lesser used programs on there.
It was all very smooth changeover, except my fan stopped working - coincidence? - but that was an opportunity to disassemble it a bit further and clean it out real good (it was full of dust + 2 hair balls in the fan area )
Any questions, fire away, cheers, John

 

W7 does not support bluray. You need to get it all going then shop for the best deal on a bluray codec or player from PowerDVD et al

If you have a player for Vista your could try to install it using compatability mode but it my not work.

Remember for BluRay to play properly you need the graphics and audio drivers to be WHQL approved.

 

I tried to upgrade the original hard drive by cloning to an SSD with HDCLone and after fixing the various MBR/bootsec/bootrect, the target SSD drive boots up but Win7 says the copy of Win 7 on the new drive is not genuine :-(

The original disk from the factory is fully genuine though!

Can anyone help? Where have I gone wrong? How can I fix this stupid copy protection problem?

 

Read this thread -

http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/454715-program-completely-clone-drive.html#links

If you are willing to re-clone the drive, all I can suggest is to use Acronis and start over, perhaps the result will be better?

 

Thanks Snowman.

I'll give that a go.

 

I have cloned my drive many times with Acronis True Image and never had a problem. Give it a try.

 

Ohhh I'm sorry dude. Apparently, I've gotten all the information I need from this thread, so I moved onto bigger and better things But once again, thank you everyone who helped me.

Mr. Mysterious