Upgrading, a laptop's graphics card, is it possible here?

I was thinking of removing the 8400GS in my SZ. It has switchable graphics and a GM965 chipset (i think). I know someone that can remove the gpu and fit another graphics card as long as it is compatible for £95- so the fact that the gpu is soldered doesn't matter as it can be removed.
May be the BIOS won't recognise another card but that would be a gamble that i would be taking. I’m intrigued by this and right now this just at the thinking/exploration stage.

My processor is a T9300 and i have never used the 8400GS because of the potential problems with the 8XXX Nvidia gpu's.

What graphics card might be compatible? It's very hard to find detailed information about pins etc. What is the best graphics card that can be used? If this can be done then that is pretty amazing. This begs the question how come more people haven't done this?
I would be removing a new 8400 really and tampering with it and this might not work.

The 8400GS is 80nm and 11w.
NVidia GeForce 8400M GS -
NVidia GeForce 8400M GS - Notebookcheck.net Tech

I was looking at the 9300GS which is 65nm and 13w.
NVIDIA GeForce 9300M GS - Notebookcheck.net Tech

The VGN-Z uses the 9300M so may be i could use those drivers.

This is the SZ motherboard
SONY A1508528A SZ750 SZ691 SZ71E MOTHERBOARD , PARTS - eBay (item 300525660816 end time Mar-14-11 13:38:13 PDT)
Any thoughts?

Obviously I'll only try it if my chances are pretty good.
I've seen some gpu's on ebay
nVidia 9300M GS G98 730 U2 GPU BGA chip video IC on eBay (end time 17-Feb-11 08:52:35 GMT)

I like pcworld's spin on this lol.
Upgrading Your Laptop's Graphics Card - PCWorld


Thanks

 

Hrm well for starters none of the links work..

And I never really known Sony to have removable MXM modules or a proprietary form, they have always soldered on the GPU to the motherboard, if you list the entire Sony model I could look it up?

 

I wouldn't attempt such a thing. It usually takes careful work with a wave soldering station to put a GPU onto the motherboard in the first place, and it's not something I think I could pull off without one.

 

I fixed the links.
The graphics card is soldered but it can be removed and well i know an expert who can do this and they have the proper equipment. They have done other jobs for me before like removing a soldered ulv processor and upgrading it.
Thanks for your help.

 

Okay for the slideshow, it is showing a Dell proprietary form of MXM, and they can only be upgraded to another Dell GPU module. My Vostro 1500 also follows this proprietary MXM module, I currently have the 8400M GS 128 MB and I plan on going to the 256 MB 8600M GT soon.

Well if you have a shop you are in good standing, go right ahead. BGA work is something only few specialized shops do these days, and can only be done correctly with an infared solder station.

A 17 year old with a heatgun doesn't count btw.

 

Thanks, so what about the 9300GS i linked to or am i limited to only use the 8XXX series of gpu's which is i am trying to actually move away from?

Yes, this would be taking that article one step further.

 

Theoretically you should be able to use the 9300M GS, but I don't know much about Sony BIOS, they may whitelist GPU, or you may need Sony VBIOS for the chip.

I thought Sony were covering certain models due to the faulty Nvidia chips?

 

The SZ isn't covered under Sony's Nvidia repair program.

If you think that i should be able to use the 9300GS may be i should stick with that as the VGN-Z uses it. I'm not a gamer but still might like to use the dedicated card from time to time.

I will wait until tomorrow until purchasing the 9300GS to see what others may add also.

Thank you for your help

 

I looked at both motherboards the MBX-147 (yours) and the MBX-183 (mine, the one with the 9300M GS) . The Intel Graphics chipset may be a problem here and I don't see a way to work around it. The Z uses the Intel GMA4500/9300M GS graphics drivers from nvidia. But if you're running your laptop on Speed only this should take care of that, just don't switch to Stamina. Also I think there might be a problem with VRAM, hopefully the timing will be right on. It's a small jump from 8400 to 9300, is it worth the swap? Let me know if you need any info, run tests on the 9300M GS, anything to help you with your project you name it.

 

Thank you Twiz57, the SZ6-7 use the MBX-170. It is though pretty much identical to the early SZ1-5 MBX-147 motherboard.
SONY VAIO VGN-SZ SERIES SZ750N MBX-170 MOTHERBOARD USA - eBay (item 390287994363 end time Mar-11-11 22:00:43 PST)

I don't plan to use the dedicated card all the time. I hope that the integrated card wouldn't give me any trouble. I will use the VGN Z nvidia drivers.

 

De-soldering a gpu and putting in a nother model gpu is usually a very bad plan.
It's not just a matter of being able to do the soldering decently, there is also a matter of bios compatability, which in a quick guess will only be available for GPU's originally put in this laptop by sony (usually a low end gpu or a high end one is what you can choose with these kinds of models).
Other then that, the motherboard bios might require the gpu to have a specific Sony vbios.

Furthermore, the cooling of a faster gpu (let's assume it works) will likely require a different heatsink/cooling then your current one.

If you want to take the shot, stick to the same line of gpu's (8xxx), i am pretty certain a higher series will not work for you.
Best would be to look if the same model Sony notebook is available with a faster gpu, and go for that gpu.
If you're lucky you can find a complete motherboard with this faster gpu, for the price your technician asks to replace the gpu.

Also, what is the reason you want to upgrade?
If you are seeking performance then i hate to break it to you, but the 9300 you mention is just a tiny bit faster then the 8300. As in you would get 3-4 FPS more on the same settings for a game. I don't know your reasoning for your upgrade, but if the above is it, don't do it.

 

The Z drivers are for Intel GMA4500/9300M GS all running under PM45 chip. I'm guessing you need something for GM965/9300M GS. Is there any laptop that runs with that combo? You won't be disappointed with Speed only if you can make this work. I hardly ever use Stamina, almost never. Screen backlight and CPU are more power hungry than your graphics chip. Was there a small sticker attached to your CPU/GPU heatpipe saying something like 25W or 35W?

 

Thank you all for the excellent advice.

I was aware about BIOS compatibility issues and that was the risk i would have to take.

However, i was still expecting my speed/stamina switch to work so therefore be able to use the integrated graphics. This looks like it might not be possible now. If i needed to use the laptop on battery i still would want decent battery life.

Also, i was hoping to move away from the 8XXX series of graphic cards. If there is a compatibility issue with the 9300GS and the 8xxx are the only cards i could possibly use i won't try it. The 9300GS is 13w but 65nm and the 8400GS is 11w and 80nm. I would expect heat output to be about the same. The heatsink/cooling in the later SZ models is pretty decent.

I'm not quite sure why the speed/stamina won't work as both of these cards are quite independent at least with the SZ models.

I can't think of a laptop that uses the 965/9300 combo.

Ideally this should be done on a laptop with a defective 8400GS and mine as i said is like new so i would be taking a real gamble here.

I'm going to think long and hard about this but with what i have read right now it's looking unlikely.

 

Yeah I don't think any X3100 came with GeForce 9, GM965 came out like 2007 and that's when GeForce 8xxxM cards came out so naturally they would come hand in hand. 4500MHD didn't come til GL40/GM45 about 1 year later which was when GeForce 9xxxM came.

However with hybrid graphics, will it matter on which GMA? As long as the correct drivers are installed? I would think GPU VBIOS and BIOS compatibility is the biggest issue, if you do the chip soldering and it doesn't POST, you got bigger issues.

 

There is a chance that if it boots that i possibly won't be able to install the drivers and it will be only able to use the standard vga graphic drivers that speed mode uses if i remove the 8400GS drivers.

 

Is the 8400m GS ddr2 or ddr3?

I've thought about doing some things like this. To anyone making the same pessimistic remarks.... Rachel obviously knows what shes doing here, NO, shes not just going to break out the soldering iron and go at it

that out of the way... I think the 9300m GS is an odd choice. Firstly if you have ddr2 you should try upgrading to ddr3 first. but if that doesn't work (and you are willing to get the vram chips rereballed) I think it would be a much better idea to go for an 8600m GT.
They all have the same pins, but there are likely to to be some major internal electrical pinout differences or general architectural changes enough to make it not work...
I could compare it to pm45 laptops that dont support quad cores, but its hard to say because intel definitely anticipated that upgrade more than nvidia.

Does anyone know what these chips are based off of?
Something else I was reminded of is how you can't flash a 9600m GT to an 8700m GT, or a 8800m GTS to 9800m GS because even tho they kept the specs the same nvidia based 9800m gs off the g94 core and the 8800m GTS off of g92, 9600m g96 & 8700m g84.

That said I hope you succeed here, it would really be interesting to see how going from 8-9 works out. It would be a great business opportunity to get into this and do research on which laptops can be reballed with upgrade

 

The heat shouldn't be a problem IMO.
The drivers could be modded.

The vbios might be a problem, but an sbios/vbios mod could help I guess.

There are a lot of hurdles, but you will never know if you don't try

Hey if it works it would be interesting to see if I could swap my 3700m chip with a 280/285m chip.

 

why are you putting yourself into this big nonsense work ?

I'd rather focus on increasing the cooling capabilities on your laptop and overclock the GPU that you already have. That's what I've done to mine, works with over 50% overclock for over 3 years already

if yours happen to fail then just buy another laptop. Even not brand new, it could provide more performance as being newer model than what you already have.

final though - it's not worth doing it.

 

Actually its totally worth it. Some reputable reballing services will probably do this job for under 100$.

And of course, I wont go on this speech again but real uniqueness is the single most lacking aspect of nearly all technology today. Having a laptop like this would be worth much more to me than the price difference of 9300m & 8400m or whatever.

 

Some people have already invested X money in their laptop, and they may like their laptop alot. Unfortunately almost every single G86M chip was affected by the faulty bump material so cooling the chip isn't going to help as the rapid cooling and heating results on the GPU package being disconnected. And you try spending 1600 on a Sony and telling someone 200 to get better results isn't worth it versus spending 900 on a new laptop that is nowhere near as good.

 

^ mine was at the 1,600 USD mark when I bought it, after the sale promo on it. But please understand that this is a 3+ year technology, I'm in no way paying for it to be fixed .. only to push another year or two, considering that this type of fix is likely to not even work.

besides, a 900 USD laptop today is totaly going to destroy mine in performance

if it were an easy work such as replacing the CPU, then I'd say go for it.

 

Thank you all for your help.
It uses DDR3, i attached a GPUZ.
It is the 8XXX problems that really has made me consider this. I guess if i could spend about £100 doing this instead of £1,600 on a new high end notebook right now i will give some thought to this especially as i know someone who is an expert who can do this upgrade. As i wrote in my first post i'm just exploring what might be possible.
As i thought it is the BIOS that could be the biggest obstacle and i have to decide if i'm going to take that risk.
With a T9300, 8GB of ram (potential) and an SSD and none affected gpu this laptop could potentially serve me well for some time.


Edited to add:
I got an email message from the expert who would be doing this upgrade. I've been told a 9300M is without doubt a no go and to look at the 8400M GT.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180536427852&_rdc=1
I was trying to get away from the 8XXX so i really don't know about this now. They said if it doesn't work they will of course refit my original gpu. The Sony FZ uses the 8400GT and the Phoenix BIOS that the SZ uses. I might be able to use those drivers. Ideally if i'm going to do this i would like to source a Sony 8400GT vendor gpu or may be it doesn't matter at all.

I've been looking at FZ series motherboards and would get the person doing this to remove the gpu but most of those you'll find on ebay have had gpu problems.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVidia-GeForce-8400M-GT.3708.0.html

 

I don't know that the 8400M GT was specifically affected but it is based off the G86M which is still a problematic chip.

 

Yep, i know, thanks for all your help with this btw and good luck with your upgrade. I'm doing a lot of reading right now about this potential upgrade using a 8400GT in a 13.3 form factor.
The 13.3 P300 had a 8600GS but had no doubt the cooling system to handle this.
I see that nothing really changed with the Nvidia repair program and several forum members who own the FZ have had several repairs.

Sourcing the gpu could also take a while.

I will no doubt update with my results if i do decide to go through with this.

 

Here are the two screens for the 9300 from GPU-Z. I have two motherboards available for this laptop, one has 128Mb of dedicated video and a P9600 (currently installed) and the other one has 256Mb dedicated video and a P8400 installed on it. This is the 128Mb board.

It's very important to disconnect the CMOS backup battery from the motherboard. The board doesn't seem to see the new CPU installed if you skip this step. What version BIOS is installed?

 

Thanks, i was told today that the 9300 would be a total no go. My attention was drawn to the fact that i seemed to miss before (see below), the pins are totally different.

I'm using the last available BIOS for the SZ the R0122S5.
The SZ is clearly not a new notebook lol and at this point i'm more willing to try upgrades with it.

 

Very sad news indeed. To tell you the truth I think it would've been easier to fit a diff. M/B inside that's got the chip already on it than desoldering and soldering the GPU and dealing with driver issues.

 

I think it's pretty much a dead cert that i'm going ahead with this and taking the gamble with the BIOS.
I purchased the graphics card yesterday.
G86 750 A2
G86-750-A2 NVIDIA GRAPHICS GEFORCE G86 750 A2 G84M BGA GPU IC

This is what it looks like-
nVIDIA Graphics Geforce G86 750 A2 G84M BGA GPU IC on eBay (end time 19-Feb-11 03:55:00 GMT)

After some digging i discovered that the Vaio FZ takes G86 750 A2 8400GT (there appears to be different variants of the 8400GT card may be used on different brands of laptops) and 8600M G86-770-A2.

I spent some time emailing back and forth with the tech who will do this upgrade. They informed me that part of the reason why these 8XXX cards fail is because the IC's are soldered using lead-free solder spheres. They will use leaded solder which is softer and much more forgiving at the changing temperatures (basically it allows for expansion and contraction
better than lead free). This may even extend the life of this laptop this rework.

I will also use one of the best thermal compound out there on the gpu. I've got ICD7 but i've read it's no longer the best so i will look into that. Potentially i might even see a decrease in temps. The 8600GS at 20W would have just been too much.

The SZ has got 64MB of dedicated GDDR3 so that's what i think i'll be restricted to. Some FZ models did also have 64MB of dedicated GDDR3. I've already downloaded the drivers from the FZ W7 thread.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVidia-GeForce-8400M-GT.3708.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVidia-GeForce-8400M-GS.3709.0.html

 

Hrm, didn't know 8400M GT came with only 64 MB discreet...Wiki shows it's 128 bit with up to 512 MB VRAM discreet.

Right the defective chips had faulty bump material, and the rapid cooling and heating would cause the solder joints to fail and disconnect the GPU package from the motherboard.

Though ceramic based thermal paste isn't the best best TIM on the market, it is safer than a metal based as TIM such as AS5 conduct electricity. If you accidentally get a glob of it on your motherboard or another component you can fry it. I repasted my 8400M GS chip and the VRAM with Arctic Silver Ceramique, dropped it a few degrees.

 

The dedicated 64MB must be a Sony special lol.
If you google it you'll see that at least four FZ models did come with 64MB of dedicated VRAM.
Thanks for the tip about the TC.

 

The amount of vRAM on a card or motherboard is something the manufacturer can decide.

Its really very rare that AS5 will damage anything.

And BTW I think the underfill was also the problem on these gpus.

 

Hi,
I am new so please be gentle on me.

I do respect all the effort that Rachel had made. We also thank the users that gave us wise advices for not tweaking our expensive laptop. As a user we had consider the risk to perform this task ourself.

My 3 years old SZ56GN's (asia pacific model) GPU had just gone crazy. There is visual artifact every time i use speed mode. So i am living on the intel chip alone. Either i had to salvage it, or go for a repair. Of course hoping that upgrading the GPU is possible.

The driver problem i wouldn't too worry about it. I had recently "forced" update my 8400m GS through nvidia website. As all of you know vaio laptop usually would not simply install any version of the driver. One of the problem after the update is the Nvidia control panel gone missing. The stamina/speed switch is still working perfectly though.

For the bios problem i had no idea about it, due to i had no computer/IT background. Please advice.

I have disassemble the laptop and found out that there is almost impossible to remove the fan and heat sink away from the GPU. They appear to have some speacial screw (some look like a nail with flat head). So is impossible to unscrew it. Please give advice.

Also anyone knows technician that can perform this task, please send me link and the location.

For yur information:
Model: SZ56GN
CPU: T7500
GPU: Geforce 8400M GS (surprisingly 64MB) - upgrade is worth it.
Chipset: GM965 express

If i am not wrong I am using DDR2 RAM, i don't hink is possible to upgrade to DDR3 like one of the guy mention above.

Details: http://vaio-online.sony.com/prod_info/vgn-sz56gn_b/vgn-sz56gn_b.pdf

 

Hi,
I am new so please be gentle on me.

I do respect all the effort that Rachel had made. We also thank the users that gave us wise advices for not tweaking our expensive laptop. As a user we had consider the risk to perform this task ourself.

My 3 years old SZ56GN's (asia pacific model) GPU had just gone crazy. There is visual artifact every time i use speed mode. So i am living on the intel chip alone. Either i had to salvage it, or go for a repair. Of course hoping that upgrading the GPU is possible.

The driver problem i wouldn't too worry about it. I had recently "forced" update my 8400m GS through nvidia website. As all of you know vaio laptop usually would not simply install any version of the driver. One of the problem after the update is the Nvidia control panel gone missing. The stamina/speed switch is still working perfectly though.

For the bios problem i had no idea about it, due to i had no computer/IT background. Please advice.

I have disassemble the laptop and found out that there is almost impossible to remove the fan and heat sink away from the GPU. They appear to have some speacial screw (some look like a nail with flat head). So is impossible to unscrew it. Please give advice.

Also anyone knows technician that can perform this task, please send me link and the location.

For your information:
Model: SZ56GN
CPU: T7500
GPU: Geforce 8400M GS (surprisingly 64MB) - upgrade is worth it.
Chipset: GM965 express

If i am not wrong I am using DDR2 RAM, i don't think is possible to upgrade to DDR3 like one of the guy mention above.

Details: http://vaio-online.sony.com/prod_info/vgn-sz56gn_b/vgn-sz56gn_b.pdf

I fry my card after moving to windows 7 by using the old vista driver (forgot what is not working and i overload the card), i should have force update the driver much earlier.

 

See this post.