Using Home Server to Backup Laptop?

Hi guys, I hope this is the right place to post this, but anyone here have used a home server (nope, not those cloud services) to backup data from their laptops on a periodic basis?

I am thinking of getting a HP microserver, which I understand that it can be a pretty bang-for-buck NAS but am not sure how to turn it into a backup machine of sorts too (maybe like those Time Machines that Apple have?)

Thanks!

 

Buy an NAS. Synology or QNAP are the top two choices right now.

If you're using Windows 8 or higher, use File History. Otherwise, use the manufacturer's utilities (Qsync for QNAP and Time Backup for Synology).

Of course, if you have other uses for the microserver, then an NAS maybe out of the question. But do some research to see what possibilities a mid to high end NAS offers too.

See:
https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/5.2

See:
https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/5.2/live_demo

See:
https://www.qnap.com/i/en/qts4/

See:
https://www.qnap.com/i/en/support/con_show.php?cid=8


Also see the soon to be released QTS 4.2 (now in RC 3...)

See:
https://www.qnap.com/qts/4.2/en/


The capabilities of a modern NAS is eye opening. Unless you have a very specific use for the microserver, a NAS is probably the best way forward, today.

 

Thanks! I have considered Synology and QNAP before, but their price-performance ratio compared to a microserver is not very good (i.e. If using a microserver, I will be paying less for more CPU power, more HDD bays e.t.c.). And my laptop is still on Windows 7 though; using File History is out (unless you mean using Windows 8 on the server)

 

No, you need to use File History on the clients you're backing up from. No problem, just use the utilities mentioned.

A NAS gives me a better price/performance ratio when the length of service, dependability, reliability and availability is taken into account.

Today, to use a microserver vs. an NAS is like using an old school desktop vs. a NUC.

The only thing you save is $$$, but the time factor (maintenance) increases logarithmically.

 

If you just want to backup files then yeah a NAS is a good option. But if you want to run any other dedicated software then a microserver isn't a bad idea. It offers a lot more flexibility to run other server software to use it for more than just backup. You can go with WHS 2011, which is a no frills version of Windows Server 2008 R2 or even Windows 8.1 on the server end. I run a WHS 2011 dedicated box and use it for system backups, file storage, serviio server for streaming video, minecraft server for my family, and TeamSpeak server, and web server. WHS 2011 is only limited to 8GB RAM though, but so far hasn't restricted my use. I built my own box though, and am running an Intel Core i3-3220 dual core CPU with 8GB RAM and for the last few years has worked great. See here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...llet-and-bought-my-new-whs-2011-build.701517/

You can use the built in Windows Server backup tools or use whatever third party ones you desire. There's lots available to you. I like WHS 2011 because it easily backs up my PC's daily and also store my files on there that also get backed up.

WHS 2011 has little to no support from Microsoft now though, but they did patch to work with UEFI machines (which was a big issue when it came up) and primary support ends next year, but extended support goes until at least 2020 or whenever Server 2008 R2 stops getting security updates.

 

HTWingNut, except for the now dead-end WHS 2011, an NAS offers all that and more.

Along with more hardware (both cpu and RAM) and simple plug in apps that leverage mobile devices (if you like fooling around with that).

While a server and a NAS are just hardware and both carry the same risks of flaking out on us, I have found Synology and QNAP a set and forget solution. Replace HDD's when/if needed. And the data, services and value added features simply keep working day in and day out for years and decades. Can't say that about any server I've ever had or used.

 

You can install native Windows apps on a NAS?

 

With a VM on the right NAS box, yes.

And, almost any other O/S you might happen to prefer for any particular workflow.

 

NAS boxes are quite limited in CPU performance and available RAM compared to a full fledged server box, and usually aren't x86/x64, but some form of ARM CPU and usually have some proprietary OS based off Linux and aren't as flexible as far as what can be run on them. Depends on your needs. I use my server frequently to run game servers depending on what kids are playing, just something that I couldn't do with a NAS. Otherwise for file transfer and storage and backup and possibly some dlna streaming service like Serviio, I'm sure it's great.

 

Thanks guys, I am siding more towards the HP microserver (or even just DIY it myself?) as after reading up a lot more on virtualisation and even pfsense, I can see that I will be needing more power than what the NAS can offer at that price-point. And if all else fails, I can always install XPEnology (i.e. Synology's OS) on the server itself

 

If all you need is to do backups of your data, then a NAS or Microserver is overkill. NAS and Microservers are targeted towards small multi-user environments, like a household or small office with a handful of people that all need to access the same storage location. Microservers are intended as a "NAS on steroids" for running other services that require a full OS, such as automated scheduled backups, advanced permissioning, or running embedded applications on that microserver (e.g. Web server, FTP server, Bittorrent client, etc).



If you are just a single user trying to back up data on multiple computers that you own, then all you need is:

1) A desktop computer that is always on.
2) A storage device (either internal SATA drives, or external USB 3.0 / eSATA drive enclosures. It is your option if you want to get a RAID'ed external enclosure).
3) Good backup software (I personally use Acronis)

A program like Acronis will let you:
- Configure a backup schedule (every Monday at 3:00am)
- Configure a target backup location (a network share of \\COMPUTER\Folder\)
- Configure backup versioning (Full backup every 1st Monday of the month; incremental backup every Monday thereafter).
- Configure backup garbage collection parameters (Keep past 24 backups, or until disk space is needed)
- Configure restore parameters (partial or full restore. Original or manually specified location).

It will also let you pick whether you want to do a file-based backup, a drive-image based backup, or both. Been using it for the past 2 years, needed it one time to recover an accidentally deleted home video. Completely happy with it.

Total cost of this will be about $50 for a license of Acronis plus disks (versus $100 - $500 for a RAID'ed NAS enclosure or Microserver, plus disks).

 

Yeah, some/most NAS boxes are limited. But so is the HP microserver from what I have read.

From the Silent PC review above;

At it's introduction it doesn't seem to be a recommended product even for home users with light LAN usage and low expectations.

It also gets more expensive very quickly as capabilities are added (the iLO license, for example) and even maxed out the performance, efficiency and noise levels are nothing to write home about.

See:
http://www.amazon.com/QNAP-TVS-871-i7-16G-US-8-Bay-3-2GHz-10G-ready/dp/B00S0XRY7Q

The above is an example of what I consider to be a true NAS box in late 2015 (as entry level 'anything' is not worth considering in the long term).

Is the QNAP TVS-871 with an i7 and 16GB RAM overkill? Only if the performance it offers goes underutilized.

But with 10GBe LAN, native VM capabilities and vastly superior processing power vs. the microserver (and it seems four times the RAM capacity too...), spending $$$ towards the microserver is more for a learning experiment than getting any real work out of it, imo.

Not that learning isn't worth paying for (one way or another). But hopefully the OP knows a little more fully what they are getting themselves into and not expecting too much from the HP offering that could have been so much more.

 

LOL! Holy crap. That is a server to behold. An i7 no less, lol. Nice.

But $2200 for that setup when you can build your own for not much more than half that cost. Although I may consider something like that next time I go to bring my personal server up to snuff. For now though my i3 works fine and even with ten hard drives (6 system, 4 backup) my system runs only about 47W idle, 90W at load.

 

Yeah, $2.2K for the box add another similar amount (or two) for the 8x HDD's or SSD's to make this thing fly (for capacity or speed... or both).

I can build a more powerful system for zero cost with the parts I have lying around. But the QTS O/S is what makes this worthwhile. Along with no/low monthly maintenance (as with a Win O/S) and the reliability of a hammer (Thor's...).

That $2.2K with that hardware and QTS (4.2 in RC3 now) is why building your own pales in the face of what (wheel) has been built already (and now, for many years). Especially if the user wants some control of the NAS and his/her data with mobile devices. The build it yourself crowd gets left far behind pretty fast when it is seen as the (balanced) system it is.

Not too bad for a company that started in 2004, eh?

 

Thanks, am hoping that my incoming server will be able to do just that! I can start searching from Acronis...

Looks like I can go with this approach, thanks for the heads up! I do agree that the microservers could be better though

That kind of money can get me a nice DIY gaming rig lol, but I shouldn't be mixing up my priorities

 

Glad you found our exchange on this thread beneficial. And didn't get scared off with the easily approachable $10K price points of a fully optimized/balanced 'NAS'.

One fairly recent client that I recently helped setup on current platforms (I outlined what they should do):

• 2x NAS, 7x HDD's and 1x SSD on each NAS
  • NAS1 - 12 Executive Users - 2 VM's - ~2TB of shared documents, all financials (+history) and promotional material (video, sound bites and photos).
    • Passwords and folder restrictions by person and position.
  • NAS2 - Managers - 3 VM's - ~0.5TB of shared documents, current quarter financials (limited), daily forms, etc.
    • Passwords and Folder restrictions by person and position.
• Both NAS' drives encrypted, locked and in a secure and locked rooms (w/cameras - cameras were additional cost as was the cost for a different secure room for each NAS...).
• Both NAS' backed up to each other, transparently.
• Both NAS' backed up (incremental) to 6x USB 3.1 External Drives daily (encrypted, with any two of the 12 Executives on a rotating schedule of who will have (one each) of the external HDD's off site for a day or two).
• 8x HDD's additional to be used as spares (identical to what is installed currently on each NAS).
• 2x SSD's additional to be used as spare (cache) drives (identical, once again).
• 4 External HDD's used to backup the NAS settings (used on a rotating basis - 2 for each NAS).

The above was even before they could consider new DT's. Their existing DATA needed to be protected as much as possible prior to any change.

At this point (about 3 months and $72K later...) they came back and again asked my opinion for upgrading their users systems' old towers (my response: Win10 Enterprise x64 LTSB, NUC's, i5 or greater, 16GB RAM, ~500GB SSD's (MX200's)). The NUC's were roughly $575/each (avg.) hard cost (discount for multiple units...) and the setup (physical and O/S + Software) was about two hours for each system - and then each completed unit was further tested for up to 48 hours to confirm reliability of the RAM, SSD and CPU/iGPU. Then, each was configured to be backed up (usually just temporary data) to the appropriate NAS boxes above, nightly (hourly for the Executives).

While the i5 (or higher), 16GB RAM and 500GB SSD spec'd systems are total overkill today, considering that Windows 10 will simply keep evolving forever and that the RAM and the better/bigger (and yes, 33% OP'd) SSD were almost 'free' (because of the volume purchase), it seemed like a waste to get anything less (and management agreed after I showed them what a lesser system felt like - Win10x64Pro, NUC i3, 4GB RAM, mSATA 128 SSD, no OP'ing... 30% used capacity).

They shouldn't need to upgrade their DT's before 2040 by my calculations. Give or take a decade.

Oh, and $250K total cost and six months later... they still couldn't play games on these systems.

But they did cut their energy usage for their computers/servers by almost 70%. And increased the responsiveness of their network (including remote access) by orders of magnitude. I predict that this upgrade will be fully paid off in Q1 2016 for them (just my estimate, of course) - a little over a year from when the owner first asked for my recommendations (yeah, I billed them...).

Best of all?

The whole atmosphere is much more relaxed there today. Not because the work to be completed has decreased, rather, because the angry whirring, grinding and other mechanical protests from the HDD's and multiple fans (cpu, case, gpu) of hundreds of systems was absent. And noticeable by all too.

This is an office environment built not only for today, but for the future too.

All it takes is $$$$$$$$$.






...
But a couple of the Executives did ask me for a personal gaming rig (both mobile and DT)... I suggested they read NBR for that instead.

 

Actually, I'd say that $2.2K is a steal. Netapp and EMC charge enough for their offerings that you could buy yourself not just a gaming rig but a brand new Porsche, even though the hardware inside is basically just a commodity x86 server from Dell or HP that would only set you back maybe $5-10K by itself.

When it comes to network storage devices (the ones that are good enough to not make you constantly want to throw them out of the window, at least), the vast, vast majority of the purchase price is for the software, which you can't build by yourself - not for less than the cost of the device, anyway. Oh, and the few open source software offerings out there all have serious shortcomings in one way or another that make them barely worthy of consideration even for casual home use.

 

Agreed, especially for the 'steal' part - just don't let QNAP hear that part...

For mere $$$$, you get a decade's worth (or more) of mostly trouble-free use and performance. Wish everything in life were like that.

 

And just in case you needed a DAS with your NAS, QNAP delivers.

See:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/qnap-ships-tvs-871t,30145.html

(Just don't buy from B&H (today) if you want the lowest cost...).

 

And just in case you were wondering if SSD caching or iSCSI was worth implementing on your NAS.

See:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/qnap-tvs-863-8-bay-nas,4225.html

10GbE included.

AMD based.

SSD caching on a NAS works better than ever.

iSCSI as per QNAP is world class.

http://www.tomshardware.com/community/profile-1888934.htm

Too bad the AMD based platform brings the Multi Client SMB down to subpar levels without SSD caching enabled.

For the $$$$ though, this is still a very potent system capable of 8x 8TB configuration (~48TB nominal capacity w/RAID6) for the storage starved 'home users' here.

 

Late to the game but why couldn't a Portable 2tb USB HDD work for you? I've also created a homegroup where my Main Desktop is networked into the network with 10 network drives that are shared and some I gave permission to write to. That way I can store and retrieve data from the Desktop acting like a Server but not a Server to store/offload my data from being lost.

 

Wow, this thread is getting more interesting by the post/minute!

May I know what shortcomings you are referring to, seeing how many people are using them for their home servers?

Yeah, prob is, not many (like me) can afford the $$$$ just yet. Maybe just a $ though

And this reminds me of something I thought of for a while: "In computing/IT, penny wise pound foolish is not the way to go... but if you cannot afford the pound, make do with what you have/can afford"

Actually, I already have a 3TB HDD in an USB enclosure. The server is meant for a 1TB and another 2TB HDD sitting in my bro's computer actually. They are backing up the 3TB.

 

Agreed. But, you might want to think (much) more long term though. Computers, like cars* and girlfriends* (*99.99999%) are not an investment. They are simply a bottomless pit where $$$$ disappear at any rate you can feed into them.

For computers, the tradeoff for having the latest performance components and platforms, continuously, is the time cost of validating the reliability and suitability of the system as a whole each time you change it. If this validation is not done, or not done properly, all you'll be is a monkey that can change computer parts like a pro; yet have little enjoyment from any one build.

For cars, the equivalent is having the car always in the shop vs. simply riding it around. And for girlfriends... well, we've all been through high school, right?

As you become more experienced with what a certain set of hardware offers you, it will come to light that the hardware by itself is meaningless. Data and specifically your data is what drives your need to have the hardware in the first place.

At that realization point, further upgrades are easy. You do them when you can, time-wise and budget wise. They are a part of the fun of owning a system (but far from the only fun part). But what you absolutely do not fool around with is your data. Ever. As I have repeated many times; if I put even a single file of my data or my clients data on a storage subsystem, that component is never up for a return, an RMA or has any other chance of leaving my possession except via Hammer Time.

As far as managing the data, I too had (and still have) many parts and components lying around that I used to make 'servers' with and keep all my data on. That was a mistake from day one, looking back at it. But after all, QNAP has only been around for just over a decade, so I don't feel too bad.

Doing that today though is a mistake from the word 'go'. Yes, the hardware is cheaper to diy, the time cost definitely isn't (over the lifecycle of that system) nor is the reliability, longevity or dependability either. And we still haven't got to the features that a NAS offers over almost any home built offering.

But you're right, it starts with a need and that need has to be filled with the budget we have now. I still have hundreds of HDD's in external enclosures before I became serious about my data. But I was also feeling my way through a world where you couldn't (and still can't...) trust what the marketing bs was being said.

You have something I don't; me.

You need to put a plan together with the budget you have now. And we've helped you make that decision from the choices you have today.

But, knowing what you know now (re-read the thread a few times), I would be already planning/saving to replace the little HP with a proper NAS (QNAP or Synology) and you'll then be able to properly concentrate on other parts of your computing experience. And by concentrate, I mean brain/time-wise, $$$$ wise, over the lifecycle of the NAS and maintenance-wise too.

You may not need the fire breathing high end products I've used as examples here. But you do need to be in the platform lines we've discussed to get to the point where you 'know' your data is safe and available. And it stays that way with minimal input from yourself.

I too could not see the benefits of a NAS... when I had the parts all around me and I had the expertise too. In less than a week of spending $$$$$ (2x everything, including the NAS box + extra HDD's) for my first dabble with them, I kicked myself every time I remembered for not having done that sooner.

Soon after, with a NAS (multiples) protecting and managing the data I generate daily, my productivity increased more than any single platform jump on my workstations I could name. The reasons are obvious today. But before actually owning one for myself, all I could see was the high cost for little benefit (vis a vis the hardware offered).

Again, buy for the long term. But long term is not just about the fastest hardware when it comes to your data. That is a bonus if you can exploit it and afford it too, of course. Long term thinking with regards to data is low/no maintenance. Little/no rebuilds over the lifecycle of the hardware. And the software (QTS, DSM) to do this reliably as far into the future as you care.

The latest NAS products with mere mechanical HDD's + 1 or 2 SSD's offer storage performance that is faster than all SATA/mSATA/M.2 based SSD's and even approaches the performance of the latest PCIe x4 and x8 SSD's too, while offering much greater capacity. While the two are not interchangeable, of course, what that should indicate to users is that NAS is not a mere backup. It is a viable performance aspect when creating/moving/copying a lot of data on a continuous basis is part of the workflow. And it is the safest workflow to have when loss of the data used/created is not an option.

Initially; buy what you can, because of immediate needs/budget concerns.

But plan and start saving to do it properly asap; the smaller your needs are when you adapt a best of class workflow, the less time it will take and be cheaper and easier to do too.

Always buy as much as you can afford, but not more than you can afford. Don't set initial arbitrary budgets that are based on a $$ amount with no reference to the thing you want to buy - there is always a balance where more $$ spent is foolish but more $$ saved is worse. Good enough in computers is never good enough going forward past 6+ months. If you're in a position to keep saving for the next level up; do so. Don't buy for 'today' when you have the chance to do otherwise. Doing so is a false savings in the long run. Money in the bank is money (not well) wasted, if you otherwise have a use for it, now.​

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

 

Thanks again! You have good points in many counts. I am interested in IT and like playing with it, but I guess like what you said, I have to also make sure to have the time to be able to use them for their intended purposes lol. I should learn how to balance that out... (And yes, I still don't have a girlfriend or a car. But I get the analogy lol)

And also, maybe I should mention this earlier, I was considering just a 2-bay NAS, but after more thoughts on other current and future needs (e.g. more HDDs, homelab to learn more stuff), I thought that I should just go for a server *first* then get the NAS/DAS as a secondary backup down the road. After all, getting the stuff sooner = more time to learn and decide on future expansions. I am also now even more aware of what will happen to me when that comes, that's why I already have a backup plan in place (i.e. the 3TB in one USB enclosure, the 1TB and 2TB in the PC) that makes sure that I always have two copies of the same digital data at any one time. I am also reading up more on what will happen to reduce downtime and adjust my expectations.

So, ok, here's my plan. I will still go ahead for the Microserver first (since that's the best I can afford), see how it works out, and then change that 3TB in an USB enclosure into a proper 4-bay NAS or DAS as my secondary backup. As for software, that's now something I have to look into. Maybe set up as network drives and use FreeFileSync to copy files over (between the 3TB and the other two HDDs, between my laptop and the other two HDDs) for now and decide later? Acronis sounds good too...

 

Sounds great and all but OP (and most home users) is not looking for such a large investment. Most users want an *inexpensive* way to backup their data quickly and safely and have easy access to it. A home user is going to balk at $2500+ backup solution because it probably costs more than the system(s) they're backing up. I understand the value of my data and put a hefty price on it too. But you can also be safe about it at not such a great cost. Heck my personal photos and videos are my most precious commodity and for someone that all they want to do is backup 500GB of photos and videos cheaply, I recommend backing up to a two or three USB drive rotation, and keep at least one offsite at all times in a secure location (family member home, work, safety deposit box) that you visit frequently. But I guess it shows it all depends on the needs of the user.

 

Agree completely.

Just want to point out though that 'inexpensive' doesn't mean just less $$$$, time is our most precious commodity. And that is not just a cliché.

 

That's something I realised recently, in many ways and manners! Somehow, it's either you use money to speed things up... or you save money but spend too much time! :S

 

You could also use SyncToy.

 

This is very much true. I like how in your previous post you've specifically mentioned time spent performing migration and validation. Since your data is important, you need to do that right, which means you need to allocate a sufficient amount of time.

While I haven't quoted it specifically, I very much agree with you about the importance of your data. Hardware is largely meaningless - at least when compared to your data. By comparison it's trivial to replace a broken CPU, while recovering lost data is another matter altogether.

Almost exactly 3 years ago (I was slow to the game) I too was choosing between DIY vs. NAS and elected to go for a NAS. While I enjoy tinkering with things, I felt it probably wasn't the greatest idea for my data to be potentially harmed if I screwed something up. I've been pretty happy with that choice. A NAS is generally built to store and safeguard your data and is likely to do a pretty good job at it. Certainly better than me running a server, which at the time I had very little knowledge of. I've since learned a fair bit about it and you can actually do some tinkering with a NAS as well, so I didn't have to give that up altogether. I purchased a low/mid range 4 bay Synology NAS (~$600) back at that time. I can't help but drool over the $2200 NAS linked in the thread!

It's up to everyone to decide what their data is worth to them. However, it's better to be able to answer that question if one is aware of the bigger picture: money, potential issues, eventual migration, and so on. I can say I didn't think a lot about migration when I made my choice. I still feel pretty safe (Synology is a well-known vendor), but it is really important to think about this up front.

 

@darkarn , what is this HP microserver your looking at? I'm looking to build one now that I have a job and some money so do let me know..

 

Here it is!

http://www8.hp.com/sg/en/products/proliant-servers/product-detail.html?oid=5379860

PS: I may be changing my plans to a DIY setup though. But first, that paycheck from my part-time work has to come...

 

I also have 12- 3tb drives that I use for backup and are networked together.

 

I came across this few days ago, you might find it interesting:
http://www.ebuyer.com/722189-hp-proliant-gen8-g1610t-4gb-ram-microserver-819185-421
That UK only £55 cashback deal is valid for couple more days. £124.99 after cashback is really nice price imo.

More info can be found here: http://homeservershow.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5639-proliant-microserver-gen8-links/

 

Got it, I missed it at ebuyer but got it from servers plus...I should still get cashback...

 

@KLF, do you think it's worth putting in an SSD for the OS drive for the server? I'm not too sure if it's worth it... A normal hard drive will be fine right?

 

For my home use I wouldn't do it unless I got one for free. Still a freebie would end in one of my laptops first..

I'm currently running old i5 desktop (i5-2500, 8GB, 2x500GB) as a server with couple virtual machines. 95% of the time it works beautifully but I do notice some slow response at times.

A 120GB SSD for host OS and couple most important VMs might work (~40GB each). It still depends on load, we have 1+0 SSD raids on customers with even data hosted on raided SSD discs and still they complain about low performance. For my use at the moment a spinning drive provides enough performance.

 

I use an SSD in my home server as a boot drive. It's an Intel 520 180GB. Probably not necessary, but for the occasional server reboot or troubleshooting it makes boot up times quick.

 

I'm probably dumping an SSD in at a later point... Guys, any idea if this server supports multi RAID? I'm thinking of getting 2 2TB drives and then bigger sized ones later... If I do RAID 1, break it when I install new drivers and split RAID etc, will it be ok?

 

You can build a great FreeNas box for next to nothing. Can even run it on very cheap hardware and it performs great. Or run it as VM, passthrough the controller to the VM and attach your hard drives that way. You'll have native speeds, you'll learn something very useful, backing a vm is very easy.

If it's really important I suggest having a 2nd backup of the data offsite at a trusted relative's place.

 

Except that FreeNAS requires ECC RAM, which is not all that common on "very cheap hardware".

Yes, it will run on non-ECC RAM, but that would be gambling with your data, which is something I could never recommend.

 

That Microserver I linked earlier was £125, so... around 150$ without drives and it had ECC ram. I'd count that as very cheap, even tho it did not include drives...

If power consumption isn't a problem, then one option is to look for old servers or workstation desktops that are literally being thrown away from big companies.

 

Where would you look?

BTW, I have 2 4TB WD Red drives ordered... Looking to using the Optical bay for an OS drive... Or a MicroSD slot... Do you think a MicroSD will be able to handle an OS? Heard they fail after a while with all the OS writing...

 

I have ML110 G7. Like one in that example link, there is a lot of refurbishers that deal stuff first owners have upgraded from. Old hardware is then just an expense, it needs to be securely erased and recycled or whatever and that is a business for others.

At work I see a lot of stuff that comes back from customers. Usually it is C2D desktops and 1st gen i5 laptops but sometimes there is a Xeon workstation along. We just erase them and refurbisher picks them up.

Old computers go somewhere. Trick is to find where and how to get hands on them Pretty much everywhere is someone who does it locally.

 

On my side (Singapore), not easy to find though. In fact, almost impossible!

 

Do not use MicroSD for an OS drive. It will fail and be horrifically slow. I don't think you can even install a modern Windows OS on a flash drive either.