Video cards: AMD Firepro M6000 vs nVidia Quadro K3000

Can someone tell me what the difference is between these two video cards? Specifically, what does the K3000 do that the M6000 can't do? I've heard about CUDA and "shaders" but that's all Greek to me. I just need a plain language explanation of what the higher-priced K3000 might do that the M6000 cannot.

Obviously, I'm not into CAD/CAM or other highly technical video work, but I do want to get a very high quality video card that will last me at least five years. I'm thinking of a Dell Precision mobile workstation, the M6700. Possibly an HP 8770w.

 

what do you need your gpu for?

 

You're not into CAD/CAM, then what's you reason to get a FirePro/Quadro?

 

You guys!!

I'm considering a couple of business machines, Dell Precision M6700 and HP Elitebook 8570w, and both have these two types of video cards as the only options. I want a high quality machine that will last me five+ years.

 

If you want a top-end video card for anything but professional applications with top-end build quality and support, no laptop in existence will satisfy you.

You have to go for a low-grade business laptop with an integrated GPU or a high-end business laptop with a pricey professional GPU that you will have little use for. No vendor has shown any interest in selling business laptops with consumer GPUs.

Enough ranting: the Quadro k3000m is slightly better and has Optimus, but the Firepro m6000 is cheaper and comes with no graphics switching in the Precision and Elitebook.

 

They're both at the same level performance wise... If you don't care about CUDA or CAD work, then I'd say get whichever is cheaper.

 

I want an IPS screen, and the only models that currently come in IPS are the Dell Precision and the HP Elitebook.

Now, can anyone tell me what the difference is between the AMD M6000 and the nVidia K3000???


Jotm, can you explain briefly, simply what the CUDA stuff is all about?

 

What the guys mean is that those GPUs are very very overpriced for what you are going to do. For the record, they are actually slower than consumer model which their GPU is based off, they gain all their speed advantage through driver optimizations and a little thing called market segmentation.
Basically, with CAD/CAM and some business apps, they are written and executed in OpenGL (as opposed to the more common DirectX). Consumer graphics cards have their OpenGL capabilities greatly neutered as few if any games are written in this language. This gives a somewhat artificial performance lead to the Pro cards as they have fully enabled OpenGL performance. Its basically smoke and mirrors. Plus they get their purported greater reliability and stability by actually being underclocked.

CUDA is the native proprietary GPGPU language for NVIDIA while AMD uses OpenCL. If its any difference, the AMD cards are better optimized for OpenCL even though the NVIDIA cards are also capable of OpenCL. Both are only relevant if you do a lot of GPU number crunching. Even then, both these cards have such bad FP64 performance they won't be that useful in the first place unless you can use the less precise 32Bit FP

You basically want a durable machine am I correct? If that is the question then I must point out that part of the enterprise package laptops is that while some of their reliability is derived from their engineering but mostly the awesome hardware support (i.e. 24hr onsite repairs) to maintain uptime.
I consider replace-ability to be more important than brute reliability, its like comparing a Honda Civic to an obscure BMW, this is where the Clevo machines gain an edge as they use industry standard parts where possible. Plus, you can gain better customizability from them.

I've heard good things about the Dell Precision if you are still interested.

 

CUDA is used to process data on the GPU instead of the CPU in a limited number of apps. Most popular in Adobe Premiere Pro, various After Effects plugins, video transcoding apps (but ATI can do that too nowadays), other video editing apps and some other niche products (OpenCV, for example).

(ATI and Nvidia both have OpenCL support, which is a CUDA alternative that seems to be gaining popularity and may replace it within the next few years...)

Nvidia also has better compatibility with professional CAD apps and better switchable graphics support (for better battery life), but really ATi's FirePro's are very close nowadays.

I'd personally go with the FirePro if the price difference is over $200-300...

 

Thanks, Marksman. I'm basically in love with my IPS screen on my old trusty T60p, but she's gotten long in the tooth and can't always keep up with the videos and streaming I often do. Plus, this old first gen "duo core" takes way too long doing what it's got to do. So, since Thinkpad doesn't offer an IPS screen anymore, I'm looking at the Dell and HP business machines. They only run the two video cards in question, so I'm just trying to figure out which I should go with. The AMD cards are all cheaper than the nVidia cards, so I'm leaning heavily in their direction, but I'm trying for a little more ammo to back up my decision.

 

Jotm. as of Adobe CS6 Adobe has more or less dumped CUDA in all applications with the exception of Premier. Premier however on the new update uses a new Mercury Rendering engine that does both CUDA/CL but is about 45% faster with OpenCL.

but for CAD and pro application benchmarks ... a small bit of actual hands on benchmarks from users here @ NBR
http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam...5-call-benchmarks-cad-opencl.html#post9207007

OP and if you are after the 10 bit panels the precision m6700 and Elitebook 8770w can give, just go with the FirePro, after having both unless you NEED CUDA ( as I do for some applications ) it is your better choice unless you have money to burn to game on a k5000 which is awfully close to a 680m in gaming

 

Thanks, Jotm. I'm thinking that way, too.

 

so in the end it wont matter at all what gpu are you going to chose, you are not going to game on it, nor you are going to do any work on it. Get whichever is cheaper, since they use 10bit IPS panels, so you are not going to have switchable gpus

in the end if there wasnt a need for IPS, you would be able to choose whatever enterprise class notebook you want, i.e the HD4000 is more than enough

 

I'm not into gaming, nor do I do CAD work. I'm just looking for a great screen and the Precision and Elitebook are the only games left in town with their IPS panels. (I really don't want to mess with a glossy screen rMBP or HP's consumer machines.)

 

I have to agree with you way too much, after using these panels looking at an rMBP is like looking at a 10 year old broken LCD
precision + a base firepro and you are all set.

 

Pretty much the way I see it, too. Just thought I'd run it by some "pros" here for feedback.

 

Exactly. ... except now it looks like Dell has canned their IPS panels on *all* their Precisions except the special edition Covet. And the Covet doesn't have a true matte screen but a "reduced glare" glossy screen. So, I'm not sure if that's better or the Elitebook, with a true matte screen, would be.

 

hmmm when did the m6700 lose its Precisioncolor screen? ( Just ordered another a week ago ) The m4700 lost its precisioncolor screen quite a few months ago.

edit: just looked at the US site and you are right, our Canadian site still had regular CTO's with the option available


Note: Elitebook 8770w and 8570W both have the same quality 10 bit screens as well.

 

I just went to their config site and there it was, WIDE VIEW Angle display, that IPS for ye

 

nope that's the good standard screen, good one is the Premier Color or precision color depended on which model and country

 

I thought that wide view angle was cue to IPS, no TN can do wide view angles, and no TN panel can display proper cat photos just saying

but yeah, I thought that there was something strange with the price of the display, it was wayyyy too cheap

 

Yeah, just two days ago. I was looking almost every day for the past two weeks, and suddenly yesterday the Premier Color was gone. The Covet is still available (for now) but it has a rather glossy screen, "reduced glare", Dell says, but an owner told me it's still glossy.

So, now my question is: how good is the HP Elitebook? How does it stack up quality-wise with the Precision?? And what about after-sale service?? I've had nothing but EXCELLENT service with my Thinkpads over the years; I don't want to be disappointed by shoddy service from my next computer maker.

 

I actually rate the 8770w better than the precision, in terms of after sales support they are quite good as well, same thing really

 

im with Karam my 8770w is a bit better fit and finish than my m6700 as for support their business support is just like Dell's normally excellent especially with NBD, but it can depend on where you are located like every other manufacturer. if you look at the 8770w phone into an HP rep and haggle a bit, you can get decent discounts

 

Just out of curiosity, how do both compare with your Thinkpad?

 

which one? I will assume you mean my x220 in the sig, since only about 1/4 of may laptops are listed and the x220 was replaced by an x230 ( I am WAY too lazy to update my sig on a weekly basis )

but compared to all the X and T series I have seen and used they are much better built, with the exception I still like the old thinkpad keyboard better. I would say still noticeably better than my husbands w530 and w710 as well. only units I have been hands on that I find are better and more durable are the semi rugged and fully rugged units such as the Toughbook CF series.

performance wise as workstations they stomp all the thinkpads since the w530 with the k2000 is the " top end "

 

The reviews I have read led me to the same conclusion. Thanks for confirming it.

 

Do we have any 15"+ iGPU Ultrabook with decent 8bit IPS around? Buying one of those two machines for the screen sounds like a very bad idea.

Even if the extra price is not a problem, buying a mobile workstation will also buy OP the weight and bulkiness that gives no functional benefit at all. Why not get something lighter and slimmer if you can?

 

nothing even close to aRGB or accurate, the closest you can get is a 15" Clevo or the Sony Viao Z.

mobile workstations although bulky do have many other benefits but only the support options, and battery slices may be of benefit to the OP. 11 hours on a 17" laptop is somewhat fun

 

Why not just wait for Alienware to announce their next line June 10th. Rumors say they will have IPS panels as an option

 

depends a lot on the quality of said panels

and this goes well with it, quote day!

Harold, if you pause to think, you'd realize that that answer is inextricably contingent upon the type of life being led... and, of course, the quality of the pancakes.

 

Yeah I guess you could find some IPS panels that might not be top notch. I have no idea.

LOL I had to google to find what movie that was from. Stranger than fiction. Sounds like one strange movie indeed

 

actually you can, its very easy too, there is one very average panel from LG that always receive many good reviews, despite being average, it equips the s15, U500 and some other models

 

These are each manufacturers of a professional line of cards. They're call that because the people who buy them are usually people with a use/job already in mind and they need a card they know will handle that task and meet professional specifications and standards.

To put it in simple terms, if they were vehicles these card would be the truck line. You buy a truck (typically) because you need to haul or carry something heavy. You buy them to do work. That is what these cards are made for.

That said, there's no reason you can't use your truck to go shopping or to the movies. After all, its still a vehicle. Although you'll like pay a premium to use it that way. That's also the notion behind these cards. You can certainly use them for gaming or any other video card use but they are expensive.

As for CUDA, that's just Nvidias proprietary recipe for the way their cards operate. That's their special tuning, but its not necessarily better than any other system already mentioned.

By choosing a 10 bit display (it does a much better job with color quality) you narrow your card choices right from the start, since only pro cards are designed to support them. In essence, you're saying you care more about quality in your display than you do power savings/battery life, since you can't have both.

In other words, if you buy a truck don't expect to get 40 MPG. These heavy duty features are something professionals need, but few consumers would choose to pay a lot extra for.

 

I would assume they stop production of the old IPS/Assembly and getting new design for m6800? who knows, the old IPS have a few quality and adaption issues ne ways.

If OP have to buy now, then 8770w is the only choice at this moment. If OP do not need GPU power, then pick the cheaper one - firepro. HP don't even offer m6000, so get the m4000.

Though there should be business class ultrabook with IPS screen out there iirc. Don't remember the exact models.

 

Thanks, Krane. I get the idea. Heavy duty usage. Although I don't consider my work "heavy duty" by any means, I do like longevity and reliability. I like high quality color and accuracy, too, very much. I cannot imagine going for several years on a TN panel after having an IPS for now 7 years.

 

Yes, I'm tossing this around in my head. The M6700 Covet looks like a dream machine, but I don't know if I need 17.3" of screen. That leaves the Elitebook in 8570w. I'm going to spec them both out to what I'd like, then probably give each company a call to see if they want to give a deal. Stay tuned....

 

Then don't get one, get whatever you had before. Desktops are the opposite of everything Apple; and for the most part, the rest of the industry who is also in constant search of thinner/lighter above all else.

The desktop replacement requires a special breed that requires a special commitment to the exceptional performance they provide. They are NOT for the faint of heart.

When its time to move up you'll know it. That's when, you'll be constantly telling yourself as you work, "I wish I had a larger screen, etc..." that's when the change is a nobrainer. Still, in other cases (like mine) your software will dictate what you need.

Why buy a full size pickup if you never have anything to put in the bed? Yes, I know many people like that too, but its their money.