What are laptop makers saying about charge cycles nowadays?

I haven't seen much news on them ever since Apple announced its batteries would last 1000 charge cycles. The average at the time was ~300. What are laptop makers saying now?

My near 5 year old Dell Studio 15 still miraculously has 85% of its charge. My sisters macbook, weirdly, fell to 75% with just 700 charge cycles, Apple replaced that battery under applecare, and the new one fell to 90% in weeks and 85% in just months.

 

Most lithium-ion batteries sold now are advertised as lasting between 500-1000 charge cycles. How long the battery lasts in practice is based on usage, operating environment, and specifics related to the manufacturing process and the logic board which regulates charge and discharge characteristics. Spending a lot of time at full or empty charge, temperature extremes, and poor charge/discharge design all reduce battery life.

In your specific example, 700 charge cycles is a lot, so the reduction in batery capacity is not surprising. I think it's much more unusual that your 5-year-old system has 85% of original battery capacity than the newer system is down to that in a few months.

 

My new Dell Inspiron 11 3137 has its battery rated at ~300 cycles by the manufacturer. :-/

 

They do advertise it should be above 80% by 1000 charge cycles, but yeah, that's all dependant on usage and I doubt my sister is too careful with her battery. The more surprising and disappointing thing was that the new battery they gave us is already down to 85% with barely any charge cycles, it sank to 90% in just two weeks, and this even after I gave her similar tips.


I have no idea what magic this old Studio 1555 is pulling, I haven't even been that careful with it in the last two years, I regularly downed it ot 0% with high load gaming scenarios to be honest. I dont' know when this thing is going to die so I can justify a new one

 

I cannot seem to find stats on the Sager in my signature, but the manual states : How do I maintain the battery?
Completely discharge and charge the battery at least once every 30 days or after about 20 partial discharges. For a full discharge they recommend changing window settings so that it shutdown @ 1%. It has Polymer Smart Lithium Ion Battery Pack. Do you guys generally agree with this?

 

The main reason companies suggest periodic full discharges is for calibration. In other words, if all you do is partial discharges (which are healthy for the battery), then Windows eventually either over- or underestimates your current battery life. Calibrating the battery by completely discharging then completely charging it fixes this.

Calibrating once a month is fine, but I wouldn't do it any more than that. Frequent full discharges can shorten the lifespan of lithium-ion batteries and increase battery wear. And you can also check from your own experience with your system how often calibration is needed. You may only need to calibrate every 2-3 or more months.

It's also worth mentioning that if you hardly ever use the system on battery, calibration allows the battery to have some time when it's not at completely full charge, thus prolongling its life a bit.

 

For the 2012 NP900X3D Samsung was claiming 80% of capacity for up to 1500 charge cycles.



but then became less optimistic so the 2013 NP870Z5E only claimed 70% capacity for up to 1500 recharges.



The "up to 1500" can be construed as meaning the inverse of "at least" but, in my opinion means that a customer can demand a replacement battery under warranty if it loses more than 30% of capacity within the first year.

And maybe the better technology works, most of the time. I had to get the battery of my NP900X3B replaced under warranty because the capacity had dropped by 30% (it appears that there was a bad batch of batteries) but the replacement is still at around 100% after a year while the battery in my NP900X4C has slightly more than the design capacity after 21 months (but this may be helped by Samsung's now-discontinued utility to limit charging to 80% when full capacity is not needed). Low charge rate is another factor that helps prolong the battery life.

I only reckon on doing the calibration about every 6 months.

John

 

I did a deep dive into this a while ago and I think it's probably better if you can keep it over 30% and not fully charged. I know that's a PITA, but more simply draining it to 0% all the time isn't great, I'd aim higher than that, and 100% isn't great either, a bit lower than that.

Calibration with full discharges I don't worry about too much, but if the battery meter seems completely off then yeah, go for it.

 

another thing that seems to be a fairly major factor is heat, the hotter your battery gets while in operation or charging the less time it lasts.

 

A related article and comments discussion appeared last month on Ars Technica:
Ask Ars: The best way to use a lithium-ion battery, redux | Ars Technica

One item I took from the comments was that storing a battery in an extreme state (fully discharged or fully charged) is stressful* on the battery, which may cause it to wear down more during storage and reduce its ability to hold energy. So...

• If you do a full discharge, try to recharge it to at least 20-25% as soon as possible.
• If you're not going to be running off battery in the near future, consider discharging it to 60-80%.
  • Some laptops come with a battery manager that will let you put the battery charger in "conservation mode", which reduces the the target charge to 60%.
  • If your laptop does not have that feature, you could charge or reduce the battery charge to 60%, and then remove it so it isn't recharged. (And maybe store it in a freezer or other cool place, until your next trip/vacation.)**

(* I imagine it like holding your breath: it is more stressful to hold your breath after you fully deplete your lungs, or after you pack as much air as you can into your lungs, than it is to hold your breath with your lungs in a more normal volume. The analogy is probably inaccurate, but the image helps me remember.)
(** Removing the battery may not be worth it for many gadgets with inexpensive replaceable batteries, especially if they are easily replaced before a trip, but laptop batteries can cost a couple hundred dollars and can take days to replace if you have to order them.)

 

From what I've read at Battery University and other sites, the biggest impact on battery duration (how long a battery will hold a charge and how much of a charge it will hold) is due to extreme temperatures, followed by exteme charge states, and then cycle count and time. Ideal conditions for long-term battery storage are cool (but above freezing) temperatures and around 40% charge. When used in a system, it's best to use features that only charge the battery to 80-90% of full, if the system supports it and you don't absolutely need the additional 10-20% battery life you're giving up on a regular basis. That should allow a battery to have the best chance of a long life. And perhaps the most important advice I've heard: use the battery as you need to. Some folks can overthink battery duration and are afraid that their batteries will die if theyaren't used just right. To those folks, I say don't worryabout it. Your battery is meant to be used, so use it!

 

Exactly. People stress over a consumable item like a battery. From the day it's made it starts to degrade its charging capacity, and will over time regardless. Just use it and forget it. If you use your battery a lot then you'll have to replace it after 2 years or so anyhow. It's usually a $50-70 part, something people stress over that they'll spend on a night at dinner and the bar.