What is the lowest safe voltage for undervolting the i7-720QM?

I don't know if this is the right place to put this topic. I live in Singapore and my ASUS G51Jx-A1 really gets hot during gaming, around 95 degrees Celsius. I know this isn't good for the laptop but I am also not willing to compromise performance for its longevity since I have a 3-year warranty on it. I want to undervolt the i7-720QM CPU because my laptop is always idling at around 60 degrees and it is really heating my room up. I understand that it is possible to set the voltage for the i7-720QM using ThrottleStop. Has anyone tried successfully in underclocking the said CPU and what was the lowest safe voltage?

 

Every CPU is different... but you cannot undervolt your CPU.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...35824-undervolting-guide-532.html#post6641842

 

Oh really? Damn it then. Thanks for the link though.

 

u can't undervolt it.. best thing to do would be to get a notebook cooling pad and maybe have ur thermal paste redone.. that should help with the temps.. and i know how u feel.. i used to live in singapore for 9 years and when i got my Dv5t temps used to just as worse...

 

I am already using a notebook cooling pad. But all of them don't do much by reducing temps only by 3 or 4 degrees Celsius. Will replacing the thermal paste void the warranty? I want to do the copper blocks mod but I can't find anywhere to get them.

 

If there's a "void if removed" sticker on the CPU heatsink screws, then yes. But replacing the thermal paste will drop temps by like 5-10C. In my Asus G50Vt it dropped by 8C with Antec Formula 5.

 

Most likely there is.. G73JH has it.. i don't see why G51JX won't.. but open up and take a look.. if there isn't good for u...u can do copper mod etc..if there is , go to official Asus service centre and have them replace the paste in front of u with ur paste.

 

When was the last time you cleaned out the laptop's air vents?

 

nfshp253 try first to change the power management configuration look at this post to find out how to decrease your cpu temp
http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...et-can-not-take-full-advantage-fast-ssds.html

replace your i7 720QM with an i7 620M you will get lower temp for nearly the same performance

replace your thermal paste with ic diamond 7

 

Not nearly enough in multi-threaded tasks though.

I agree the i7 720qm is a bit of a power sucker ... although that really shouldn't matter that much since the cooling in your laptop is actually supposed to be more than decent enough to handle it.

 

Deks look at the coresmark results you will see how close the i7 620M is from the i7 720QM in multi thread
157.89629s(720QM) vs 164.06329s in multi core benchmark (both w860cu)
3.9% slower than the i7 720QM in multi

in dual core test it's the other way around
305.58688s(720QM) vs 217.51868s (both w860cu)
28.8% faster than the i7 720QM in dual

between slow and slow + they are both slow anyway (when compared to the i7 990X)

adding to that nfshp253 said it is hot during gaming
gaming = dual core (up to now)

 

Thanks guys for the many suggestions. I can actually get ASUS to install thermal paste for me? The problem is I can't find anywhere here in Singapore that sells Thermal Paste. I also can't find any copper blocks or even thermal tapes online. Can you kindly point a site to me that preferably sells them cheap and offer cheap shipping? Like ebay.com.sg? @erig007, I don't think I have the money to buy a new processor just for the sake of lowering the temps slightly. @Deks, never, but the vents are still dust-free.

Do I need to remove the heatsink to view the sticker for the CPU void thing?

 

if you sell your i7 720QM it won't be so much expensive at least as much as buying copper and other stuff (i bought a big sheet of copper for around 40$ on ebay) you will need articlean or isopropyl alcohol and some microfiber as well etc which increase the price

copper mode is quite risky and will void your warranty at least with my option you could ask them to install your new cpu without voiding your warranty (even if you don't buy it from them)
for the temp my idle temp is 37C max 68C benchmark temp or 65C for heavy gaming

thermal paste:
you can find thermal paste from ebay or frozencpu
you must know how to apply thermal paste (any credit card or prepaid phone card works fine)

if you can see the cpu it means you already void your warranty

try some software mod before doing any hardware mod it's cheaper

there is lot of software tweaks available

anything to lower the temp of your whole laptop and then your cpu:
undervolt your gpu
lower your screen light
update your drivers
game at night for a shorter time and find the coldest and windy place to game
keep some room between your cooling pad and your table
as said clean the vents


anything to lower the work of your cpu:
game booster can lower the workload of your cpu by lowering the number of background process
disable your antivirus while you re not playing online or buy a lighter one like nod32
lower the strenght or disable your wireless connection bluetooth etc
defrag your hdd hard drive if you have one
scan your laptop for any virus with mbam/clamav/drweb
if you can reinstall windows with the minimum of software installed
tweak your bios turbo boost/HT
other tweaks from the link i already gave you in the other post (prefetch, superfetch, power management etc) (works even if you don't have an ssd as most of them works on the c-state of the cpu)

 

Results vary with benches but the theoretically perfectly multithreaded workload will run faster on the 720qm: 4x1.6Ghz="6.4GHz" vs 2x2.66="5.3GHz".

e.g. cinebench r10 x64 multi shows ~10k points vs ~8k - advantage to 720qm.

What I don't disagree with is that workloads in games still do not favour quads or even 3-cores to any great extent, and that this CPU runs hot and sucks battery life...

 

doesn't work as simple as that
you calculus works probably more on core2duos than iX's
you forgot HT, Turbo boost and C-states
not talking about the OS, tweaks, components and the environment yet

an example in dual core coresmark benchmark
before any tweak 290.55713s
after some tweaks 217.51868s

theoretically doesn't work in real life
dunkin' donuts are theoretically all as good

 

I thought he was using simple multiplication, not calculus.
This point of multiplying cores by frequency has been argued around here till blue in the face and the consensus is for multithreaded apps it close enough for arguments sake.

I am not aware of any changes to how HT was implemented between the two families, if so I would like to know.

The Turbo boost works differently between the two, but again we know what min/max clocks are, and if you look at a range of benchmarks you will find the 620 really falls in between a i7 740 and a i7 820.(using notebookcheck as a source, even though its not the greatest it can give a good idea of CPU placement)

As far as C states, well the recent find in the SSD thread puts a LARGE wrench in the spokes as far as future comparing of benchmarks between CPU's. So much so that I am not sure how reliable findings will be in the future.

I know from other posts that you really like the 620, and I agree it's a very nice and capable CPU, it's just not way better than what you allude to.

As an example in the 620 vs 720 thread you state "first, because the i7 620M is way better than the i7 720QM for dual core demanding applications ( I crushed even the i7 940XM at stock clock in dual cores coresmark benchmark)"

That is one benchmark, there are dozens of other benchmarks that clearly show a bouncing back and forth between the two CPU's being faster. (again based on the how multithreaded the apps is).

"secondly, the i7 620M is way less hot due to 32nm process technology (means less fan noise)"

This is a generalization that depends on a lot of individual to each laptop factors. For instance the laptop I have has such good cooling that I doubt there would be a difference in the fan noise. Laptops with less adequate cooling will see a difference.

NOTE: LAPTOPNUT if you read this I think you have had the 620,720, 840 in your rig, feel free to chime in with your thoughts on the fan noise.

"thirdly, because it has an integrated graphics"

That is true if you have for example an optimus laptop that allows you to switch back and forth between the IGP and the discreet graphics. But it's not useful right now if you want a high end graphics laptop as there are no high end optimus graphics cards.

Like I said earlier I know you like it a lot, but man you push this CPU like your life depends on it.

Anyway to the OP I would check and verify your temps are outside of the norms other people are getting by visiting the ASUS forum and poking around. If you have a problem I would contact ASUS about repasting your CPU. It's not worth the extra money to change out CPU's. Trying to sell your 720qm on ebay will take a hit as there are a ton of those right now.

 

I am not a fan of notebookcheck as they are sometimes not so reliable
for instance they found the GTX 460M 10fps faster than the 5870 in crysis XGA high benchmark when their results got from all their other benchmarks used give a slightly advantage to the mobile 5870 (we will probably have our answer later)

core2duo's vs iX's
Intel Core i7 vs Intel Core 2 Duo | Pathik Shah
Inside Intel Nehalem Microarchitecture | Hardware Secrets
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nehalem_(microarchitecture)
Intel® Hyper-Threading Technology (Intel® HT Technology)
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multiplying cores by frequency
I would be pleased to see some links as it looks quite interesting to me

620 vs 720 temps
all I know is that I get low temps with my cpu and based on this there are some chances that he gets low temps too with an i7 620M the only way to be sure is that he tests it himself
but if you have more accurate information I would be happy to hear it

That is one benchmark, there are dozens of other benchmarks that clearly show a bouncing back and forth between the two CPU's being faster. (again based on the how multithreaded the apps is).
you're right
different benchmarks could give different results as real life is way complicated
from that there is no decision to take
but life is what it is we have to take some decisions sometimes based on what we know at this time
again if you have more information feel free to share
P.S. I did try other benchmarks like passmark and the 620M is still faster than the i7 720QM

I know from other posts that you really like the 620
I'm not fond of the 620M in particular give me an opteron or xeon and I will happily get rid of it
as I said between slow and slow + they are both slow anyway (when compared to the i7 990X)
my opinion is that I find the 620M average due to its lack of overclockability
but facts are facts I did some benchmarks and exposed what I found
and based on these findings exposed what I think would be part of a solution

othonda we could give arguments for lots of things and you would probably be right

for other comments I wont answer as they don't belong to this thread

 

I don't see where the Core 2 Duos come into play? We're comparing the i7-720QM to the i7-620M, and neither of those is a Core 2 Duo. As a result, they both have Hyper-Threading, and they both have Turbo-Boost (although the settings for the Turbo-Boost are naturally different, given the quad core and dual core difference).

 

judicator look at my post 15
It wasn't about comparing the i7 620M to the i7 720QM neither but just helping nfshp253 with his overheating problem through the question asked :
What is the lowest safe voltage for undervolting the i7-720QM?

the i7 620M came into play because it was part of a solution I was giving and the comparison because of deks sentence : Not nearly enough in multi-threaded tasks though
but Judicator thanks to you we could focus on finding a solution I already gave mine

regarding the question What is the lowest safe voltage for undervolting the i7-720QM?
I don't know a way to undervolt the i7 720QM or maybe I don't remember but as I said earlier we have found a way to lower the cpu temp with some tweaks under power management (things to be confirmed with more people trying)

 

That's because the level of sophistication is getting to the point that Intel does not want even the enthusiast to be able to jack with under or over volting of their laptop chips.

 

I don't know for you guys but from my side up to now I've just destroyed a gpu nothing more
(and maybe a very very small transistor onto a motherboard but nothing to worry about)

from this point I think nfshp253 understand now the risk of doing any modification inside his laptop

 

huh! makes no sense

 

I did look at your post 15, which referred to a previous post comparing a 720QM to a 620M... still no mention of a Core 2 Duo except for your own mention of the math maybe applying better to a C2D. As stated, both of the actually mentioned processors have hyper-threading, and turbo-boost.

As covered way back in the beginning (2nd and 4th posts), none of the i7s can currently be undervolted on his platform. Hm. As I recall, in the G51JX, the CPU and GPU both share the heatsink. nfshp253, what temperature is your GPU while gaming? The high temperatures of your GPU might be limiting your CPU cooling as well. And, of course, the natural high heat in Singapore isn't helping.

Any warranty void if removed stickers will show up as soon as you open the backplate, being on the component in question, or covering any screws that you would need to undo to change out the component. It's also often worth calling warranty support and asking them if what you plan to do will or won't void the warranty (Might want to make multiple calls, as support reps can sometimes be a bit... flaky).

Searching for "thermal paste" on ebay.com.sg gave me 4 entries, although none of them are brands I've ever heard of. This doesn't mean they're necessarily bad, since as long as they meet a certain minimum specification they should do just fine, since for the most part, how well a thermal paste works depends much more on the application than on the specific paste. It's part of the reason why AS5 is still widely in use.

Searching for "thermal pad" on ebay.com.sg gave me rather more entries (290), so you might want to pick and choose from those, remembering that thermal pads generally won't do as good a job of heat conduction (and that you need to watch out for thicknesses and sizes). You can also look up "copper shim" there and "copper heat sink" if you're looking for those. Just remember that everything other than thermal paste will either require a gap to fill, or put in a gap that will raise the heatsink off other components, so keep good track of what is already on there when you take the heatsink off (if you take it off).

 

I forgot the number one rule that i've learned at school
before doing any modification isolate the system from any source of energy
I forgot that and burned a resistor with my screwdriver but my old lappy still worked fine after for the few months I used it

That's what I meant
I didn't agree with the way of bennyg was comparing the i7 720QM to the i7 620M with only a theoretical multiplication

the core2duo mention wasn't meant to go anywhere

 

Yea! do that enough times and you eventually learn.

 

a nice (smelly) barbecue

you're right and I followed the lead and got really bad experience with AS5 several times even though I took care of applying it carefully and I wait the 200 hours required
I would advise nfshp253 to choose among Tuniq TX-3, Shin-Etsu MicroSi X23 7783D or Ic diamond 7 (I never tried liquid metalpad from coollaboratory) if there is no objection from anyone?

 

If nfshp253 can find any of those, sure. Part of the issue is that nfshp253 lives in Singapore, which is a bit out of the regular channels for most of us.

 

try CPUGenie
i think it works for new chipset

 

Thanks everyone for the comments. So I shouldn't try any modifications at all? @devilcm3, CPUGenie will work for the Intel Core i7-720QM? Can anyone confirm this? Don't want to risk killing the laptop.

 

If you'd rather not risk killing your laptop, then no, I wouldn't bother messing around with the internals. It's not all that difficult if you're mechanically inclined, but only you can determine your risk and skill level. As I recall, the ASUS G51 series is known for running a bit hot, so if you're not willing to make the internal modifications, your best bet is to find a good notebook cooler. Or redirect your air conditioner so the vents empty directly into your notebook intakes.

 

Let me repeat the bit that quite a few people seemed to miss because there are arguments against things I didn't say or mean.

theoretically perfectly multithreaded workload

Obviously it's a simplistic measurement of multicoredness but that's why I backed it up with a real reproducible benchmark result to show there's some element of truth to it. Obviously there are a zillion different benchmarks showing different trends which may depend on things like raw singlethreaded or dualthreaded performance which the 620 win.

But I wasn't saying the 720qm is "the better CPU", I was agreeing there's little different in practical terms, despite it's higher potential grunt but that advantage is not used to it's fullest by any current workload patterns except for a couple.