Some of the Thermagic ZF-EX are made in Korea instead of China by the way according to the label. My three tubes from TFX were identical and they came from the same seller. Did seanwee get it from Nan's Gaming Gear as well?
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https://tehnoblog.org/thermal-compounds-comparison-table/
This might be helpful in comparing the density of each one. The table is somewhat limited but gives a good overview of a variety of pastes. -
https://imgur.com/a/AcPrjNi -
Falkentyne Notebook Prophet
Papusan likes this. -
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Falkentyne Notebook Prophet
10g? Where do you find a 10g tube? link me please !!!!!! -
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Falkentyne Notebook Prophet
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088CHBZQ4/
So what do you think?
Magic Smoke ? Or good purchase?
@Papusan @Mr. Fox @Temp1234453 -
@ Falkentyne
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/potentially-dumb-question-about-thermal-paste.835441/
I think you already have an idea of what can happen. Since most decent pastes are around the same price it's not a big deal but if you don't like it there may be repercussions from applying tis to your chips. Is it worth a gamble to pick up a couple of degrees from an untested / unintended use of a substance? Maybe!
Make sure you are careful and don't miss the target since it's a water based emulsion and will potentially kill your laptop. -
Please post results once you get it.
Edit.
The boron nitride particles in our compound are in an aqueous suspension. Once it’s heated, the liquid portion of the suspension evaporates, leaving behind a crumbly, clay-like paste. This paste has a tightly packed crystalline microstructure, and is extremely conductive (31.4 W/mK at 100 °C).
https://www.sliceengineering.com/products/boron-nitride-pasteLast edited: Feb 27, 2021Spartan@HIDevolution and seanwee like this. -
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Allo Allo
Can I trouble the pro's for a quick sanity check on my choice of paste given my rig? @Mr. Fox @Papusan @Falkentyne @Vasudev if I'm lucky?
I have a hateful Lenovo X1 Tablet Gen3 to tame, before I read these 47 and many more quality pages I'd already splurged on some Kryonaut and did a decent repaste to cure severe problems after a mainboard swap.
It's doing fine right now, but given the heat flooding and that I have the 8550U which wants to draw 32 cold and 35/6 as it gets toasty, with a cooling "solution" barely able to get rid of 24W constant, I'm sure the Kryonaut will be dust quite soon, from what I've now learned. Thanks for all the helpful info in here and other threads btw
The GK paste won't be wasted, have a Core i7-975EE rig next to me that's about to get some TLC and much better paste than it deserves
Sadly my X1 Tab is the only Thinkpad with a tripod CPU retention job on it, the contact/pressure isn't great of course, and the shameful/woeful cooling means my Mobo is close to 100 anyways within a minute of load...
Considering all this: for an often very mobile, frequently over-80c, poorly-retained ("filthy") BGA CPU, is Phobya Nano Extreme, or IC7 still a good choice, if LM is a bit of a stretch for me given my fear of the above conditions? Should I still consider LM regardless or has something else appeared that I should try? Mayo?
As an info bonus for the database, this is all happening while Lenovo are doing a bunch of work on the rig on-site under warranty. Another mainboard coming next week.. The onsite tech is using this for his jobs, left me some (Still with an IBM P/N on the label?!): Shin-Etsu X-23-7783D, the specs for this crud are here:
https://www.shinetsusilicone-global.com/products/function/heat/index.shtml
I assume that's probably what Lenovo are putting on in the first place, these guys are the exclusive on-site support for Lenovo in France so I'm sure they're forced to use this stuff.
I have good idle and load benching baselines with the GK on this rig from the last couple of weeks, I'll let the tech put his own goop in and report back on the difference, and eventually the longevity, before I replace with whatever you think is most appropriate - then bench that too of course
Thanks again for all the great info and help
Cheers
JLast edited: Mar 7, 2021 -
Thermalright TFX is the best traditional paste for your case imho. I have also a BGA CPU device with poor cooling and tried a lot of thermal paste, you can find my ranking here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...and-liquid-metal.806840/page-45#post-11079755
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Last edited: Mar 8, 2021Papusan and Falkentyne like this.
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In all the bigger paste roundups MX-4 is mostly a midfield candidate, it's a solid paste but there are better candidates when it comes to performance. As for laptops, it's too watery in my opinion. Did your try IC Diamond, TFX and Phobya NanoGrease Extreme? Your Phobya NanoGrease Extreme is thick? My Phobya NanoGrease Extreme definitely is not a thick paste and temps are quite bad, I mean it could be they have changed the formula. IC Diamond is one paste I have to try at some point but I really doubt any current traditional paste in the market can beat the TFX, at least on my device with a subpar cooling and high temperatures.
seanwee likes this. -
@ L0wpull
Check out Antec Formula X $8.99 for 4G
It's a good viscosity and has been holding up well on my laptop now for a couple of months. Laptops as others have stated need a higher viscosity due to the movement factor rather than just sitting in the same location for sometimes years like a tower would. I tested out several different brands and landed on Antec by chance after spotting a couple of posts around the web.
If you're going to do testing hwinfo sensors should be opened and kept open for a few days to a week to monitor the stability of the paste. The reason I mention this is that 1 paste I tested ended up failing after 3-4 days and temps shot up to a consistent 100C+ even when just browsing some websites. -
Stuff like Gelid, MX-4, NT-H1 and Kryosnaut work about the same for me on desktops. They're just way too runny to be useful for laptops. Within a day or two you start to see problems with pump-out and the temps start creeping up. The temps are so close they can be within a normal margin of error varying with seating and how tight you cinch things down.
My experience with thermal paste effectiveness also varies by use scenario. On systems where I don't overclock the crap out of them and run frequent brutal tests like Cinebench and wPrime 1024M there is less difference between brands. They all seems to fall within 1-2°C for me on a machine that does mostly web browsing and email. GPUs also require far less exotic thermal compounds because an overclocked GPU generally does not get nearly as hot as an overclocked CPU. I use liquid metal on CPUs. I don't need to on GPUs.
I don't really have much to do with laptops anymore. I moved back to desktops a few years ago and I basically lost my appetite for the nonsense associated with laptop ownership. They're generally more trouble than they're worth. I still have one, but I only use it once in a while when it is too inconvenient to avoid. The less I use laptops, the more annoying it seems they become to me. I have almost no patience left for the extra effort they require. Most of them are not worth the effort.
I don't game much anymore. When I do it is generally on a binge. I gamed about 7 hours in one sitting this weekend on my laptop. I had forgotten how hot and noisy and generally inferior the overall gaming experience is compared to gaming on either one of my desktops.Last edited: Mar 8, 2021Papusan, seanwee and Falkentyne like this. -
Falkentyne Notebook Prophet
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I tried it for about 1 day on the X299 Dark and it was terrible with the 7980XE running 5.1GHz. Crazy hot. But, to be fair, nothing worked well enough on that except liquid metal. Any normal thermal compound I tried was not even remotely acceptable with 36 threads running at that clock speed.
I also used it on the X170. The temps were basically identical to Phobya NanoGrease Extreme. I used what I had left on that system, which didn't take long because I tested so many different CPUs in it. I went through thermal paste like it was cotton candy.
I am not using it anymore on the TongFang turdbook. I went back to liquid metal when I removed all of the thermal pads and replaced them with K5 Pro.
Edit: I did a forum search and this is when I first heard about it:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ers-welcome-too.810490/page-801#post-11037917
I ordered it on 9/11/2020 from Amazon, so it has been a while ago. Man time flies. It did not seem that long ago.
It looks like you started using it in maybe June of 2020, somewhere around there. But, I hadn't seen your posts until after I ordered some. I was already using the Thermalright Silver King liquid metal at the time.Last edited: Mar 8, 2021Papusan and Falkentyne like this. -
I've ordered IC Diamond 24 which I can test in a few days.
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I ordered a syringe of TFX, will update you guys on the result once i'll put it in and test it.
Is there any "break in" period for thermal paste? Or can i benchmark straight away? -
You can benchmark straight away with this paste, but it does have a curing time of around 2 days if you want the best results. -
I'll wait... to be honest, i'd prefer to not reopen it in a while
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Good choice.
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@Rooter1234 @Tech Junky @Mr. Fox thanks for your replies above
I had to pull the trigger on something quick that day so I grabbed a small NanoGrease for now, had the fastest delivery, just enough to test hard for a while then go for another one to test and have enough to switch back depending which I prefer- I'll be trying out the TFX next as per you recommendation, thank you, and if need be after that some IC diamond
By the time I did the mainboard swap I have the impression the Kryonaut in the tablet was already starting to degrade a little - 1-2°c wider readings between cores during heat up to max (was max 5 now sometimes seeing 7) and 1-2°c more at some loads, bearing in mind the machine was being tortured up to PROCHOT for hours a day.. Visually it seemed fine, having pasted a nice covering layer with the spatula it looked good on removal - it may be that fit with the crap tripod isnt as bad a I feared, but the regular high temps would make the grizzly unusable long-term anyway - extensive testing shows the thermal solution of the unit can only handle ... wait for it.. 23W sustained
Thanks for the tips all, I'll be torturing the new board with proper logging (6 spreadsheets and counting...) and report back at least on the fresh NanoGrease vs the Kryonaut just on temps side.>>
On application side, the grease is real thick, very comforting tbh given the tripod, not as easy as the GK but not that hard.
As planned the GK has gone onto the i7-965EE, under a TrueBlack120 with a single Noctua NF-A12x25 on push. It's running a steady OC @ 1.4V, 36°C idle at every single step up (!!!) and didn't go over 84° on prime torture when I was benching and tuning the OC. It'll never work that hard again so I doubt it'll pass 80°. GK put to good use
Meanwhile, with a little forensic investigation, it seems I may have uncovered a bit of a scandal.. Lenovo quietly hobbling a whole product line to mitigate bad cooling design, systems now running well under spec thru unannounced BIOS changes, undervclocking and undervolting the FSB, force setting RAM to run slower etc etc.. might be juicy once I finish assembling the last evidence, just need to comb through a BIOS ROM dump to confirm, I'll post up hopefully soon)
Cheers, happy pasting to all
JDeks, Rooter1234 and Mr. Fox like this. -
I have added IC Diamond 24 and updated my TFX result with a fresh new paste, I was able to achieve a better result on core 1 and 3. IC Diamond 24 is a really good one, second best result behind TFX. IC Diamond 24, MasterGel and Kyronaut Extreme are really close. I have to say IC Diamond is a really thick paste, however it's easier to spread than the TFX for me because the TFX paste tends to stick on the spatula.
- Thermalright TFX--------------------------------------86.0 degrees (83/90/85/86)
- IC Diamond 24-----------------------------------------87.5 degrees (83/92/86/89)
- CoolerMaster MasterGel Maker Nano-------------87.75 degrees (83/93/86/89)
- Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme----------------87.75 degrees (83/93/86/89)
- Noctua NT-HT2-----------------------------------------88.25 degrees (83/93/87/90)
- Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut----------------------------88.5 degrees (85/93/87/90)
- Thermalright TF8--------------------------------------89.25 degrees (85/95/87/90)
- Alpenföhn Permafrost 2------------------------------89.5 degrees (86/95/87/90)
- Prolimatech PK-3--------------------------------------91.0 degrees (87/96/89/92)
- IONZ IZP14----------------------------------------------91.25 degrees (87/97/89/92)
- EC 360 Ruby--------------------------------------------91.25 degrees (88/96/89/92)
- MARS Gaming MT1----------------------------------91.5 degrees (87/97/90/92)
- Gelid GC-Extreme-------------------------------------92.0 degrees (88/97/89/94)
- Alphacool Subzero Thermal Grease---------------92.0 degrees (89/96/91/92)
- Phobya NanoGrease Extreme-----------------------92.0 degrees (88/97/90/93)
- Arctic MX-5----------------------------------------------93.5 degrees (88/100/91/95)
- EVGA Frostbite 2---------------------------------------93.5 degrees (88/100/91/95)
- AABCOOLING Thermal Grease 5------------------94.0 degrees (90/100/91/95)
- Arctic MX-4-----------------------------------------------94.25 degrees (89/100/91/97)
- Antec Formula X----------------------------------------94.75 degrees (92/100/92/95)
Dell Inspiron 15 7506 2-in-1 (ultra performance mode, max fan speed, desktop mode on a desk)
i7-1165G7 @2800 Mhz (Turbo Off)
10 minutes Prime95 Small FFTs
ambient temperature: 23 degreestriturbo, Falkentyne, Vasudev and 5 others like this. -
Just started playing after the repaste... it's awesome. Lost 20°c while gaming on fallout 76, now it confortably sits under 65°.
Way better than when it was new. Thanks @seanwee for suggesting using tfx -
My PH517-61 (in the signature) temperatures went up by about 10 degrees from their usual threshold... probably due to extensive usage... or more likely dust.
I have to open the thing and check things out...
Will probably repaste with TFX the 2700 and Vega 56 while I'm inLast edited: Mar 19, 2021 -
Bastards swapped out my dead mobo with a reconditioned Rev.A dated 01/17. Power delivery components have lower ratings than on the board they took out - result I've lost 5-15% performance keeping under the thermal limit of the cooling "solution". Fighting with them now, it'll take a while, but obviously any benches I try to run now can't be compared with previous ones. Crying. Refund please..
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I had a BAD experience with Asus and their GL702ZC (Ryzen 1700 and RX 580) where the machine kept frying itself after about a month of use. Asus merely chose to replace the motherboard, and after the first repair, right on schedule, a month in, the same problem happens again (aka computer fried itself).
Asus refused to replace it, kept insisting on repairing it, refused to refund me (saying its not their responsibility and that I need to take it up with the retailer).
So, I went to the retailer, invoked the consumer rights act, showed them they sold me a machine not fit for purpose, and got a FULL refund (this is about 3 to 6 months after initially buying the machine).
I was told I could get a partial refund, but apparently, all the nagging I did and threatening them with legal action... this apparently got them to give me a full refund instead (obviously, you need to be diplomatic about it, otherwise, they will of course ignore you).L0wpull likes this. -
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And while manufacturers are perfectly happy taking your money... they don't really like to admit any faults or doing you any favours. -
If you can continue to use this machine as is (Even at slightly diminished frequencies), do so, and bide your time.
I wouldn't recommend buying a new machine anytime soon (at least not until 2023 or 2024) if you can hold off... this is mainly due to the pandemic/lockdown and increased demand for hardware which is driving up prices - not unless there is an amazing sale of a much better machine that would give you a decent and affordable upgrade in the interim.
My personal rule is to use technology/hw I originally bought for about 4 - 5 years until I decide to completely upgrade (with some upgrades in between).
Unless of course you have an extremely modular system allowing you to install newest hw (depending on what you need) to extend its overall lifespan well beyond that time frame (or at least a few years beyond it).
At any rate, 4-5 years timeframe (With some minor upgrades in between like storage and RAM perhaps) would provide more time for you to experience a greater jump in performance/efficiency when you do decide to finally buy a new machine.Vasudev likes this. -
Quite excited about the APU's about to arrive from Intel and AMD with palatable graphics onboard at acceptable power ratings, holding off for 10-12 months minimum should make a real difference in bang for buck..Clamibot likes this. -
Hey guys
haven't gotten around to sorting out the fiery tablet yet and getting my cash back, been too busy upgrading the desktop while teaching my nephew to build, shi!t is getting real with water flowing n stuff
However.... I've had to do a fair bunch of repastes - my old i7-940, my nephew's 4790K, my very old 9800GTX+Black, my "new" 8700K and since that turned out to be a _very_ decent performer it's coming back from a delid and copper IHS install tomorrow so that needs a paste too. And my gold chip strix 2080 ti is definitely starting to feel the pain of the 6 world best benches i've put in hahahaha... SO that'll need new paste soon too.. for a while before it starts to rain
I've used up most of my Phobya NanoGrease Extreme on all of this different silicone, and just subjectively I gotta say I like it a lot. It's very solid stuff, takes some working but stays put nicely, has given me solid, reliable results, doesn't dribble everywhere and heavy spatula work satisfies my ocd..
I sadly have no comparison to make with whatever was on each of those before since I either don't know, or for the tablet the HW is different and I no longer care - just want this device gone and refunded anyway, learned my lesson with that format.
It might be overkill for these applications, all of them have decent pressure nice flat HS, but it's been nice to work with anyway..
I could either use up the last of it for the upcoming repastes, or I could go ahead and grab some of the TFX that's been tempting me given the results and discussion..
so, for those that know it well, @Rooter1234 @Mr. Fox @Papusan ? is TFX overkill for good pressure/good contact CPU/GPU application? Any reason I shouldn't use it here? The cost difference in all these is pretty irrelevant, especially over usage time and given how much i'm spunking on other hardware anyway..
The 8700K is gonna spend 24h back on air cooler with NGEx for direct comparison benches before and after the copper relid, then it's going under water. Is the TFX ok for Copper on Copper under a waterblock? If my temps go over 60 I'm probably then gonna go LM for that, dark side beckons, but until then would TFX be a good choice for all these applications, including the ****ty laptop, or should I steer clear for some reason?
I'm keen to find 1 paste I can use everywhere at above 0 up to 100, and be done with it, except where I decide to go LM. Easier to order and keep the stuff fresh.
Thanks for any input you can give me, as always
JLast edited: Apr 7, 2021 -
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Papusan, Vasudev, Falkentyne and 2 others like this.
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1 LM copper top relid and this mofo got some big brass balls on it... 1.456V.. for pushing records only...
53x 1.39vin 1.41vcore fine for a good bench or 3
52x 1.34vin 1.385vcore acceptable to cut down specific workloads
50x 1.29vin 1.32vcore - this will be my daily driver
stock auto 1.17
All these are provisional, untuned, on a POS surface clip AC Freezer 13 CO with 4 pipes and 100mm fan.
The NanoGrease Extreme is the only "premium" part in use
Apart from obvious easy wins it's just set multi and push V until it passes 30mins of non-avx prime, past the hottest 4k hump...
Tomorrow i'm shoving this under water i'll see if I can stabilise the top at lower voltage or maybe hit 5.5 under 1.5v
Think I accidentally picked up a fairly decent chunk of glassLast edited: Apr 8, 2021Vasudev, Papusan, tilleroftheearth and 1 other person like this. -
Vasudev, L0wpull and tilleroftheearth like this.
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Hitting a brick wall above that, I'm definintely missing something but i'm only on my first 72h with this mobo and cpu, gonna go eat some 8700k-specific internet.
If anyone out there has pushed 8700k on asus z390 HARD, and has a few mins to spare to impart some knowledge, please DM me, I feel this chip is worth the effort - I got off the bandwagon at 1.51Vcore trying to pass 5.3 after 5.2 benched OK at 1.39 :=)
Either way, this makes a REAL pleasant change from scraping off 5mv at a time in TS just to get **** mobile parts to run at speeds they were sold atMr. Fox likes this. -
I've used TFX on an older laptop which has a 45W TDP cpu (originally it had 35W) and suffered some overheating issues.
Right now with TFX applied (I used a line method for that kind of die), it seems its working pretty nicely.
I did the same on a friend's desktop machine (only for that I used the X method)... but he needed a fresh thermal paste application and a good dust cleanup anyway... temps on that machine did go down nicely.
I have yet to apply TFX to my PH517-61, but it doesn't need it just yet... I'm thinking I may do it in about 6 months or 1 year (as I've done a pretty thorough dust cleanup which brought the temps down to their original range - and boy, did the fans acquire a LOT of dust on them).Last edited: Apr 11, 2021Vasudev likes this. -
how do you guys spread thick thermal pastes like zf-ex? feels like it's impossible to do
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Vasudev, acekard, Clamibot and 1 other person like this.
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acekard likes this.
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Mind you the dot also works for the square, but the issue with this can be when estimating the amount of thermal paste to use for a laptop CPU or GPU die and how well it will spread (Which will depend on the pressure of the cooling assembly - and as we know, laptop cooling assemblies aren't perfectly even).Last edited: Apr 25, 2021Vasudev likes this. -
Hello everyone, as much as I respect and highly value the everyone's replies, I'd like to ask @Rooter1234 about his opinion on the matter.
Actually, I just created my account on this forum specifically for asking this question
Rooter, you seem to be one of those who manage to apply the TFX in a very good way, since in your tests it shows great performance compared to other premium thermal pastes. How do you apply it?
With other pastes, I always used the pea sized drop + HS pressure, but in different places I've seen people suggesting not to use this method in the laptop + high-viscosity thermal paste combo, since the low laptop pressure on the HS would not spread the paste as it should.
How do you do it in your tests with the TFX? Do you use the spatula? If yes, on the HS (as per Thermalright's instructions) or on the CPU/GPU? If you don't use the spatula, which shape do you use to place the paste?
Thank you.
PS: I'm asking this publicly and not in a PM since I think it can be a useful information for other people too.Last edited: Apr 26, 2021 -
When applying thermal paste, it's better to apply too much than not enough. Any excess thermal paste will be pushed out by the heatsink when you screw it in. Don't spread thermal paste manually, as screwing in the heatsink will do that for you. This applies to desktops as well.
When applying thermal paste to a laptop CPU, apply a line of it across the widest dimension of the CPU die. This will ensure even spread of the paste across the die when you screw in the heatsink.Ocra likes this. -
Falkentyne Notebook Prophet
For GPU's or LGA CPU's, use large X pattern with medium drops in quadrants, then give the heatsink a good press and mount (slight twist if its a desktop HS or water block rather than a video card)
For direct die + IHS relid, just use LM (Unless you're going subzero where LM can destroy a direct die, but in that case just buy a 2nd CPU for subzero and use paste)
For BGA throttlebooks, use large full line directly on the die through the middle, lengthwise.
Clamibot, Vasudev, Ocra and 1 other person like this.
Which Thermal Paste to buy and apply (Traditional and Liquid Metal)
Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Vasudev, Jul 11, 2017.