Which of the following thermal pastes?

Im about to repaste the P150HM in my sig and id like some input on the pastes in the poll.
There are loads of reviews but after reading a few id say each has their own favourite and the results arent consistent so i decided not to base my decision on those.

So far ive used the following pastes myself:

Arctic Cooling MX-2
Loved it; it was easy to apply and remove and offered very good performance at the time. Im not sure how it would scale nowadays to the other offerings.

Arctic Cooling MX-3
Pretty good paste; pretty thick so not that easy to apply or remove but gave me good performance. Again not sure where it stands now.

Innovation Cooling IC Diamond
Despite all the good reviews i found this paste didnt offer any significant improvement over MX-3. Application and removal are a real PITA and it scratches or leaves stains on the surfaces it is applied to which i do NOT appreciate. IMO one of the worst pastes i tried considering all this.

There were some others but not worth mentioning as theyve been phased out.

So which would you choose and why?

 

Sorry I have to say ICD is the best, then again I overclock to the extreme of what my system is capable of. If you are not at the point where a few C matter and aren't on the bridge of thermal shut down then maybe one of the other good TIMs is in order..................

 

Ive tried multiple application methods with different quantities and was thoroughly dissapointed with its performance on two different laptop CPUs and GPUs. I pushed a GPU to over 90C with Furmark and the difference between ICD and MX-3 was 1-2C at best which you could say is the margain of error here. And most importantly i dont want to get another paste that damages or stains the surfaces and is such a PITA to apply and remove. So id never consider ICD again.

 

^^ Same. For JUST couple of degrees less, ICD is HUGE PITA. I'm happy with MX-4 - as easy to use as MX-2 and performs better! What more you could possibly want from a paste!?

 

They are all about the same. The problem is that even in the most controlled application setting, the actual temperature measurements will all be within the range of error and thus I don't believe a single user can accurately say one is definitively better than another. Personally, I would just choose the cheapest of all the ones mentioned.

 

Agreed only 1-3c diffrence for the PITA. Personally I prefer the PITA as if proprly applied only has tobe done once and that is it. With a proper application I have yet to experience breakdown over time. The PITA really comes into play when you do alot of changes over time.

Edit; it should also be noted that as dies shrinks occur and TDP remains high, that PITA TIM may become more welcome with those smaller contact areas.......................

 

So considering these should all be similar in performance which would you reccommend then for ease of application and removal and longevity?

BTW ICD does degrade over time according to the results from some forum members (check the chart in the ICD thread) but ive never had it long enough to notice degradation myself.

 

And that's exactly what I do.

 

I had been using ICD7 but just switched to new paste after I had my GPU replaced. Running cool with Indigo Xtreme and its super easy to apply and very forgiving if you dont put on a perfect application.

anyways, give it a thought and a little research.
I run 68* on GPU max when gaming on my 6990m
71* max on CPU gaming
I dont benchmark or furmark so cant reference there.
Indigo Xtreme™ - High Performance Thermal Interface for Overclocking Applications

 

I can't recommend others for ease etc as I haven't even bothered with them. The only other I have used is he AS5 GPU adhesive to mount my load resistors for my bike and LED turn signals.

If you have proper application with ICD there should be no degradation of thermal transfer. The trick is not too much and not too little. If you look at the ICD thread I have pictures of the shims. There was 100% heat transfer from the chips. The meant proper application and full flat contact from the chips. Not every application will be as ideal as mine.

 

I've used AS5, MX2, MX4, ICD.

I think ICD is the best, but MX4 is pretty close and it's much easier to apply/remove.

 

I thought you can only use indigo extreme on supported CPUs. There is no format for laptop CPUs and GPUs so how do you use it?

 

ICD - 18 months pasted by Powernotebooks, no changes in temps from when I got it (Asus G73JH)

 

You are correct... I was way too tired and posted before my nap lol. Just double checked my tube of PK1 I didnt have the tube on me as it was down in the basement, did a quick google search and the indigo graphs looked exactly like a PK1 graph of performance from my memory...

Dont know how or why I posted about indigo but that was def not what I used as soon as I actually looked at the website. SORRY

 

pk-1 for me, easy to install, easier to clean than ICD 7 however I don't OC so a few degrees difference isn't all that important for me

 

Is there any information on PK-1 degradation over time?
MX-2/4 last years without degradation as they claim...

 

ICD is one of the best, i run dual 6990m and the temps dont pass 75 and thats without the cooler, def worth it

 

Again im NOT going to use ICD anymore (even though i still have a full tube of it and some more). I dont care even if i could get a couple degrees less with it (though not my expirience) becouse its a PITA to apply and remove and most importantly stains and scratches components. Some dont care for all that but i do.

I want something that is amongst the top few in performance, is easy to apply and remove (spreads properly, doesnt run or dry out - is basically just the right consistency), leaves no marks or damage and doesnt degrade easily.
Looking for the best paste that offers all of that not just 0.5C better performance.

 

Any paste can cause scratches, this can't be gotten away from. Agreed ICD is more easily going to do so as the grain inside it is harder. As far as performance degradation.

I have yet to find one, other than ICD, that will hold the installation. The problem is if they stay wet they will eventually boil out. If they are dry they all will crack and as they loose moisture they shrink but can not pull back TIM causing cracking as well. This is where ICD excels as whether thick or thin application it cakes and because of high thermal conductivity doesn't hold the heat to cause issues.

Now either by boil out or cracking you loose contact area and thermal performance. On systems not pushing their TDP range this is of little issue as they will perform in the respective performance envelope. Now you say that "Just Right" mixture.

Well again this is then ICD but you say that is a PITA. That is correct and will be that way even for another TIM with the same quality. You have to realize is if it is a PITA for you it also is a PITA for the system to destroy as well. It is common sense that this is something you want. I mean the easier it is for you to remove the easier for natural processes to remove/degrade as well.

Edit; the discoloring is caused by the rapid cool down. This is similar to what you will see when things are tempered. Any TIM that will provide rapid cool down will discolor, so again this is a good thing at least to some............

 

ICD is the ONLY paste i used that stained or scratched the surfaces.
Youre making it sound like all the other pastes are rubbish. Pretty sure they will all degrade to some degree over time the only question is how soon that happens and how bad it gets.
A few MX-2 applications i did on some PCs i still keep track of and they have been holding for a few years now without any sign of degradation. It is real easy to apply and remove and at the time it was one of the best performers too. Im just looking for something like that - wondering if theyve made anything better than it yet.

I can see your a real fan of ICD but as i said im not going to use it anymore if i can avoid it.
Please try to focus on discussing the other options.

Anyone here ever tried out Coollaboratory Liquid Metal Pads?
Wonder how well those would work...

 

I have used MX-2 and saw boil out, agreed only one time and one installation. I can't discuss further option as other than AS5 and it's boil out issues I haven't used others. I have pulled stock ceramic and seen cracking from dry out but I'm not sure of the junk that was used to do this.

I have heard good things about those pads but I believe they are conductive so please be careful. Not sure about their removal as well. These though because of the rapid heat removal may subject the chip to discoloration as well. If you want a better cooling solution than MX-2 this may be something you have to live with.

 

Our take on this

I would just like to note that in 4 years I have not had one picture emailed to me on the scratch issue, or seen any credible examples, never.

Now most know that diamond is well recognized as one of the hardest if not the hardest material known but what most fail to understand that it is only incrementally so and not an orders of magnitude difference.

On the MOHS hardness scale Diamond is 10 - Aluminium Oxide which comprises some element most thermal compounds (for example PK-1 you mentioned is Al 60~85(wt%) 9 on the MOHS scale

For perspective Diamond cuts Glass, Aluminium cuts glass as well and is the preferred material for cutting glass.

Aluminium Oxide is the dominant component in most sandpapers btw

Diamond will cut all other gemstones - so will Aluminium Oxide will except for Diamond and Aluminium Oxide will easily scratch something like quartz (MOHS 7)

So Diamond (MOHS 10) and Aluminium Oxide (MOHS 9) VS Copper (MOHS 3) in practice would not see any difference under normal use.

In the particle biz these particles are known as a flour due to the fine particle size and generally most compounds run into the grit sizes you would find in a fine sandpaper of around a 600-to 800 grit. There are no large particles to cause deep scratches just not possible. We buy our diamond from the largest most reputable supplier in the USA and the compound is contracted for mixing in a clean room environment, heated and mixed in a vacuum.

Below is a picture of an intentional lapping with IC Diamond, took some time but the same results can be had with PK-1, MX-4 or just about any other compound no visble scratches to be noted anywhere, deep gouges are most likely contamination in the user environment.




TANWare graciously posted some pictures on this page which I reconfigured for comparison.

The two below pictures are before and after compound removal (note the paste is still fresh after 9 months) Note the "after" removal picture and the accompanying stain - Back in the 70's I used to work for a lab that made photovoltaic solar cells for JPL that went into satellites and one of the processes we used was AR (Anti Reflective) coatings and so observing the halo/stain you find a mix of colours yellow,blue, green, red which for the wave length of the light indicates a oxide thickness of around 500 to 600 nm or 500-600 billionths of a meter or approximately half a micron.

This is probably close to a 1/10 of the thickness you would find on a laser etched copper IHS. So the point here is if you view the stain as an intentional coating a casual cleaning "Failed" to remove the gossamer MOHS 3 oxide coating or would reasonably indicate not enough abrasion to remove laser etched letters - there is nada, none, nowhere to be seen or as quote Monty python " The parrot is Mort" as far as scratching is concerned in this example.

It's all about cutting speed,pressure and time., abrasives have to move in order to work/cut/scratch/polish. What's the cutting speed of the top before picture below? Exactly zero. If you were to remove it you would dilute/soften it with perhaps an acetone solvent on a cloth wipe it once 75% is removed, wipe it twice and 95% is removed, wipe it a third time and you are at 99% clean. Cutting speed here is close enough to zero to be not be a factor.


A little internet urban myth goes a long way.

As to the staining my observation is that it is mostly due to some contamination in the cleaning process and even so while not materially affecting performance in any way it's not like a stain on a glass you are about to drink out of or on a fine painting you have on display in your living room. This goes into a utilitarian device and is buried in your computer.

But if it offends thine eye take a little PK-1 or MX compound and a little elbow grease, a clean cloth and rub vigorously for a couple of minutes and you will have a good as new shiny sink with no damage to the surface finish

 

Actually the paste was 11 months old but about a month later I added the small copper HS to my heat pipe making my numbers for comparison only good for that time period as it lowered the overall temps and allowed for 3.20 GHz.................

 

As i dont want this to turn into a heated argument mods please close this thread.
Appreciate all the input. Ill have to mull this over before i make a final decision.
Ill even consider ICD if the manufacturer will stand behind it not damaging my components.

 

I tried MX-2 once and had degradation within a month and had to replace it after 3 months. Agreed I tend to stress well above what is the norm. Also this was in an AMD system over clocked that was know to run HOT stock. Sorry but this is my experience. I've never said ICD was not a PITA, but not so much so that it wasn't worth the extra 5 minutes or so.

I am not trashing other TIM's other than the fact of the ones I am familiar with that under high stress situations have had degradation issues in the past with the systems I have used them on. If you don't want feedback from experience then don't ask. Now I can't speak for the metal pads but I can see where they should be able to hold up over time.

I only mention ICD as you are trashing it right in the first post! if you prefer not to use it that is your choice and that is absolutely fine. I just wanted to point out, and again with a high temperature stress system, you more than likely over time may experience degradation. Also YOU started the discussion!

As far as color change, yes with a high enough efficient TIM, no matter what TIM it is, will experince this. It is a surface change as mentioned and can easily be lapped off if it bothers you that much.

So if you use the liquid metal pads or other super high efficient TIM discoloration may be your norm. Now if you don't temperature stress and have the rapid cool downs then you may not see discoloration though.

And no, I have stated multiple times the rest is NOT CRUD! OEM stuff can be. I would have no issue using MX-2 or AS5 on my daughters casual use system. As I've stated though all I have anymore here is ICD so that is what I used for it too. She has no need for ICD and it doesn't help her in the least but again it is what I had on hand.

On that note as well I'd have no issue with most systems putting them together with MX-2. I am just saying from my systems that I know go through high temperature stress then ICD or some other super high efficiency TIM is needed.

If you do try those metal pads let us know how they are. I am always interested in seeing other high end TIMs in action. For another install I've been thinking of trying them myself.

By becoming a fanboy or not keeping your mind open you never learn, and I have a huge thirst for knowledge............

 

Ill mull it over and let you know what i try and how it works out.
It really wasnt my intention to start an argument here.
Since a local shop has the metalpads on stock im very tempted to try them out myself too. Most reviews claim theyre real easy to remove so lets hope thats true.
Depending on what they have on stock i just might get most from that list and try them out myself.

 

Cool, can't find anything like that around here. BB and geek squad killed most of the small local shops.................

 

It's fun to see how quickly threads like these derail...

Check out Noctua NT-H1. Scores very well in tests, and close to ICD and it is very easy to apply

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