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    Why this CPU doesn't runs well on my laptop?

    Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Tyranus07, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Hi...

    It's me again... so i am facing another problem... beside the black out of the laptop's monitor ... the new CPU doesn't runs well on my computer...

    with the new Core 2 Extreme x7900 my laptop sopouse to get better performance compared to the old one the Core 2 Duo T7250... but that didn't happened.....

    the main problem is i get fps drops in 3d applications, like games or something so simple like the stability test from nvidia's CP. the one you see monsters dancing or something like that.

    What is happening? is possible the the motherboard is not compatible with this CPU thinking that this CPU is designed for bigger laptops?

    Or it is maybe a temperature problem? even it is under 90ºC......

    or maybe the CPU is defective.. i did bought it in eBay to some guy in TAYWAN but it sopuose to be new and the guy had good reputation.

    thanks for replay.
     
  2. sgogeta4

    sgogeta4 Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    CPU won't improve games. Stuttering typically is from the GPU downclocking.
     
  3. Althernai

    Althernai Notebook Virtuoso

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    What is the temperature of the graphics card? The CPU and the GPU share the same cooling system so if your CPU is anywhere near 90C, there's a good chance that the GPU is on the verge of frying and downclocks itself to prevent damage.
     
  4. grbac

    grbac Notebook Deity

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    You have a card that runs very hot. Now, I can see that you even overclocked it and it now runs even hotter. And then you put extreme CPU which is also very hot. The CPU and GPU share the same cooling system most probably, connected by a heatpipe. The fan directly cools the CPU but the GPU only by heatpipe. Now your CPU is hotter than the previous one and cannot cool down the GPU properly.

    The thing is, even if your chipset can support this CPU, the cooling system is not designed to cool it efficiently and the system, the GPU overheats and then happends what Althernai said. In my experience, the 8600GT downclockes at 94C.
     
  5. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    So, all you guys thinks thats this problem is becauses a temperature problem??? but i dont know becauses i know this is weird but in this case the CPU is running even hotter than the GPU i get in the GPU around 86 C and the CPU somewhere around 90 C but the THM is something like 95 C while running 3d applications.

    Surfing in web and stuffs i got around 50-60C in cpu and 60-70 C GPU and THM is 50-70C.

    I am trying to change the thermal paste using an Arctic Silver 5, to see if that solves anything.

    so we can say the CPU is in good condition and not defective? i was thinking the CPU was the problem... but now you said it may be the GPU which is causing the FPS drops...
     
  6. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    but with my older and slower CPU i didn't suffer any Stuttering while running 3d applications.
     
  7. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    yeah the GPU is around 90C but under 90C... but how fast the temperature rises? becases the FPS drops is something that happens inmediatly...

    The problem happens even when i use default clocks in GPU so, is something else.. you think a good external cooler, like a Zalman would help me here?
     
  8. sgogeta4

    sgogeta4 Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Have you cleaned your vents/fans?
     
  9. Charles P. Jefferies

    Charles P. Jefferies Lead Moderator Super Moderator

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    There is a reason only certain laptops were offered with the X7900/X9000, and the M1530 to my knowledge was not. Realize that the X7900 produces more heat than a standard C2D which means it consumes more power; the X7900 has a 44W TDP . . . the other Merom C2Ds had 35W TDPs.

    You may be having these issues because the CPU is starving for power, the CPU is causing the GPU to starve for power, or a combination of both. One way or another, your system wasn't designed to handle that processor.
     
  10. grbac

    grbac Notebook Deity

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    Good point. I think that might be the only problem here. Didn't thought of that earlier.
     
  11. sean473

    sean473 Notebook Prophet

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    Well overheating is a problem for sure but seriously i don't think excess power draw is a problem.. the adapter can easily take another 10W of power draw.. but i might be wrong... might be good if you can get a new higher power adapter..
     
  12. jerry66

    jerry66 Notebook Deity

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    I upgraded to x-9000 on my hp 8510 , but i undervolt and never get over 60 c that running WCG BOINC , 38c just browsing the web .
     
  13. King of Interns

    King of Interns Simply a laptop enthusiast

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    Undervolt CPU and get new power adaptor is the way forward. Also apply decent thermal compound to both the CPU and GPU to improve heat transfer to the cooling system to the max
     
  14. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Yeah i was thinking that same thing before getting this CPU, i was between the X7900 and the T9500 (the best CPU offered from Dell for this model).. but some guy here in this same forum with the same laptop i have, improved his CPU to a X7900 and he says he didn't suffer any problem, no FPS drops, no overheating problem, no nothing.. so i don't know if he was lying or maybe he did something i didn't do.
     
  15. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Not really, but the fans seems to worked fine before i changed the CPU.
     
  16. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Well i can get a higher power suply.. same voltage 19V but more than 5 Amperes, but isn't that dagerous for the entire computer???? i mean more Amperes can burn the motherboard... maybe...

    38C is really cool... how big your laptop is????? mine is 15.4''.. are you using some extra cooler
     
  17. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Sorry to ask, but how can i undervolt the CPU and get the same performance? is that possible?

    And how big the power adapter must be? lets said 120W is enough? the one i have is 90W...

    Well today i did aply Arctic Silver 5, to the CPU and to the GPU and noticed better temperatures, around 10C down i was getting before... amazing what the right thermanl compound can do.
     
  18. King of Interns

    King of Interns Simply a laptop enthusiast

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    Undervolting the CPU will not affect perfomance. You simply cut down the voltage to the exact amount needed rather the the amount it currently gets. You will lose another 10C by doing an undervolt. The best free program is RMclock. Have a look around the forum there are plenty of guides on how to use the program, it is a blast, good luck. 120W will be MORE than enough for your system. I have a 180W one powering a desktop Q9650 with 95Wtdp lol although I have also undervolted it.

    Artic silver 5 is pretty good stuff although if you want to best I recommend IC Diamond 24 carrot thermal compound.
     
  19. notebooker-hp

    notebooker-hp Notebook Consultant

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    hi!

    i have few tips that can help you.

    look at your bios or right click properties on windows to see that if your system detects the cpu.if it detects,no problem.

    i don't know but a bios update can help you.

    is there anything plugged in on laptop?usb ?

    try decreasing the backlight,maybe it can help you.

    of course,undervolt your cpu and also you can try locking your cpu multiplier to lowest or medium on rightmark,by that way,you will decrease the energy used.

    maybe as other said,your new cpu could take all the energy,and there is not another energy left for gpu,you can also undervolt your gpu by flashing bios.

    another idea i have is,take out 1 ram and 2 gb will be left.try this,it can decrease the energy used.their is undevolting guide,search it and yes,even you undervolt you get the same performance.that is why we love undervolting.
     
  20. comp_user

    comp_user Notebook Consultant

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    It could be with the x7xx setup your CPU is overheating and becuase of this the BIOS is downclocking the system bus which might even downclock the GPU. Or the BIOS is coded so that both the CPU and the GPU downclocks in case of either overheating.

    This might explain why you get worse results with x7xx then with your older CPU.
     
  21. jerry66

    jerry66 Notebook Deity

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    15.4 inch , forgot to mention I did replace thermal goop with OCZ freeze , that might have helped as the factory glops it on with a spoon !

    before the undervolt I was running 78-80 c at 100% cpu use , 45c at interweb cruising . The thermal paste dropped temps by at least 7-8 degrees , undervolt another 20 c
    good luck , lots of GREAT advice on the boards here , run cool ! .
     
  22. thinkpad knows best

    thinkpad knows best Notebook Deity

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    Good to have someone try the C2E upgrade before i do. I have a 15.4" T61p, just received off eBay last Saturday. I was very impressed with it overall, but was thinking of an X9000 upgrade, considering the 1530 has (apart from Quadro FX drivers) the same GPU as the T61p i'm glad i know how much heat this combination can produce. Will be putting AS5 on GPU and CPU soon.
     
  23. sean473

    sean473 Notebook Prophet

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    Yup indeed.. 120W adapter is more than enough...
    Not gonna help much.. RAM uses very little power...
     
  24. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Well i did the undervolt but the minimun voltage i could get was 1.165 before i get an error using orthos.. only 0.1V down the nominal required voltage but the temperature still rises around 90C and the 3D applications... and i was thinking if i use an external cooler than the power consumation increase so is i will probably down the temperature but there will be still no enough power to the processor...

    By the other hand is i use a higher power suply than i will probably burn my whole laptop right? thats a risk

    It seems this CPU is definitly not for this laptop.

    Thanks for the tips... i havent tryed the ram thing i will do that today.

    maybe i am getting around 90C in CPU even undervolting the CPU. is downclocking a prtection for the GPU? or CPU?
     
  25. Pitabred

    Pitabred Linux geek con rat flail!

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    No. A larger power supply will actually give you a LOWER chance of burning things up. You won't be taxing the limits of the power supply like you would be with a 90W. Power supply numbers are an "up to" value. A 90W power supply can provide up to 90W. A 120W power supply can provide up to 120W. Trying to pull more power than the 90W can provide is a recipe for tears.
     
  26. jerry66

    jerry66 Notebook Deity

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    Well I'm thinking the cooling in your laptop cannot handle the x treme CPU . Is the heatpipe the same on yours as the xps with the factory x-7900 CPU ? If not that could be the problem .
    I have a feeling that mine went down because the die size went down on my upgrade , from 45 on the t-7250 > 35 on the x-9000 , and your nvidia GPU runs hot , the combo might be the problem .
    Are you sure you did a GOOD job on the thermal paste ?

    What are you measuring the temps with ?
     
  27. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Are you sure? i am thinking my motherboard was designed to handle lets said 5 Amperes, i am not sure if my motherboard will not burn if i let it handle 7 Amperes... thats 40% more amperes.. thats a lot.

    Besides remember my whole laptop's LCD is off, becauses it went black ( i dont know why but the lcd never came back) so thats a lot of power consumation that the 90W power supply is not giving.

    Yeah you are probably right.. i think the XPS M1730 has a way lot better cooling system than my XPS M1530 i think i am doing a good job with the thermal paste becauses i am using arctic silver 5 and i think the X9000 runs cooler than the X7900, i am using HWmonitor to watch temperatures... at the moment i came back to my old CPU (T7250) so i think i will try to sell the Extreme processor and buy a T9500 and i dont know maybe i will try to fix the LCD thing some day.. to sell the laptop and get one better...

    but i am still wondering... how the guy from this thread http://www.notebookforums.com/post3061866.html did this beast processor works in such a small laptop (mine)
     
  28. jerry66

    jerry66 Notebook Deity

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    Ask him how he did it , when you changed things what did you do to the gpu thwermal pad , if it had one ?
     
  29. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Well i can't contact this guy ljnram82606 , i don't know why but i don't have the option to sent him a private message, weird.....

    And yes the CPU and GPU both came with Thermal pad from Dell, i did remove it with isopropilic alcohol 98% it was hard becauses it was kind of a hard plastic, .. but most of people says that the thermal paste is better than the thermal pad.
     
  30. Judicator

    Judicator Judged and found wanting.

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    He comes up as banned for me, which might be why you can't PM him.

    How thick were those thermal pads? If they were pretty thick, your AS5 application might not be thick enough to bridge the gap between the dies and the heatsinks. If that's the case, it won't be transferring enough heat to the heatsink, which would result in your overheating problems. When you pull off the heatsink after an application, is the thermal paste smashed evenly and flat across where the heatsink was, or are there ripples and gaps?
     
  31. jerry66

    jerry66 Notebook Deity

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    if there were thermal pads that is a problem . i only had a thermal pad on the motherboard chipset and i left that alone . pads are thick , the thermal paste might not make good enough contact . what are the temps/performance like with the old cpu ?
     
  32. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    yeahh you are right.. this guy was banned.. he was always trying to ask how much his laptop costs.. maybe thats why he was banned.

    and the thermal pads were really thicks.. i mean the thermal was even out of the borders of the GPU/CPU and was really tied to the heatsink.. like some kind of plastic... i thought that was dry thermal paste, but know i think it better it was thermal pads....

    and when i pull off the heatsink after an application i see the thermal past smashed with ripples and gaps...

    is that goog or is that bad???

    I thought that i must aply a thin layer of thermal paste... thats what i did read in all websites....
     
  33. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    well in my case in the chipset i have some kind of purple sponge.. is that a thermal pad?

    In the CPU, and GPU when i first installed the CPU i have had something ( i dont know if it was some kind of thermal pad or dry thermal paste) but it was like in this site:

    http://www.techaddicts.net/reviews/dominator2/dominator2.html


    you can see is like some kind of gray plastic tied to the heatsink... the people on that site said it is thermal pad and that the thermal paste is better.

    Answering your question it seems the the old CPU runs a bit hotter now than before... it runs idle around 50-60C, and full load running Orthos for 10 minutes the temperature rises at 80C...

    And before the CPU being idle were at 42-45C.. full load 72-75C (thats what i remember).. do you think thermal pads are better than thermal paste?
     
  34. Judicator

    Judicator Judged and found wanting.

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    Yeah. That's bad. Those ripples and gaps fill with air, which is, unfortunately, a pretty good insulator. That slows down the heat transfer to the heatsink, which results in overheating of your CPU and GPU. Thermal paste is usually better than thermal pads, as if properly used, it will conform to the the surface of both the CPU/GPU die and the heatsink, resulting in a better connection between the two, but if the gap is pretty far, as in your case, you need to use a _really_ thick layer of paste to bridge the gap, which means that unless you're using a really thick consistency paste, you're likely to end up having the paste spill and run over the sides, because it won't stick together well enough to properly fill the gap.

    A thin layer of paste is normally recommended because most heatsinks are set to virtually lie right on top of the CPU/GPU die, which means there isn't too much room between the two in the first place, and so if you put a lot on, it'll all just squish out and end up all over. Also, it's easy to develop air bubbles and pockets in a thick layer of paste, which would again cut down on heat transfer.

    What all this basically means is that in the case of a large gap, such as appears to be the case with yours, you're better off using thermal pads because they'll be better at bridging the gap than paste would be. In general terms, using thermal pads are easier than thermal paste, as it's just peel and stick, and, as previously mentioned, they're better for large gaps. The problem with thermal pads is that they're usually not quite as conductive as thermal paste is, so they transfer heat a little slower, which results in somewhat higher temperatures.

    Edit:
    So, I did a bit more research, and found an old thread that might help ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=236790). It seems that the gaps in your M1530 are small enough for thermal paste to be a good option after all, which means that your problems probably just come from a poor application of thermal paste. Unfortunately, the only way to learn how to apply thermal paste well is to practice. As long as you have the paste to spare, I recommend trying out the various different ways of applying thermal paste, screwing down the heatsink, waiting a few minutes, and then pulling the heatsink back off to see how well you've done. Remember that some of the thermal paste will usually end up sticking to the heatsink, so make sure that any voids you see on the die aren't filled in with a corresponding dollop of thermal paste on the heatsink. Personally, I use Arctic Silver Ceramique (non capacitive for easy CPU/GPU use!), and the line/pea-sized dollop carefully squashed out with the heatsink. Do note that different types of thermal paste will apply best using different methods and different amounts, due to their consistencies, types, and abilities. I hear that ICD7, for example, is really, really, thick in consistency, and so it takes a lot of effort and pressure to spread it out. Arctic Silver 5, as another example, is capacitive, so you're actually probably best off pre-spreading it with an old credit card or something else, so that when you apply the heatsink, it doesn't spread too far past the die and short out anything (like a motherboard, ouch!). Also note that with some thermal pastes (like AS5), there is a burn-in time before the paste will cure, and reach maximum efficiency.

    Or, of course, you can go the simpler way, buy a pack of thermal pads, peel and stick, and you're done. They won't usually work quite as well as a "proper" application of thermal paste, which means you'll run about, oh, probably 5-10 degrees C higher (depending on thermal pad brand, type, and composition, thermal pad efficiencies vary just as much as thermal paste efficiencies!), but if you're not really stressing the system, it probably won't matter, and it'll be a lot easier. There's a reason why many consumer notebook manufacturers take the easy way out and use thermal pads (or even foil in some cases (!)) as the interface material. It's simpler, faster, and more idiot-proof.
     
  35. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    hi, thanks for your really complete answer, i saw the thread you said.. and i did follow the that tutorial, from the beginning... but now you mention all the thing about the ripples and gaps, the guide is not that complite for a beginner using thermal paste as i am...

    But i have another question, lets asume i am doing a really bad job aplying the thermal paste... how much the temperature can go down? if i aply the thermal paste in the right way...

    Today with the older CPU i am getting 80C running orthos small FFT's.. and with the extreme CPU and down voltage i was getting Over 90C running orthos.

    How much am i going to win? becauses if it is around 5C, then thats not a big improvement. In this case. going down from 96C to 91C is a lot but not enough in this case.
     
  36. narsnail

    narsnail Notebook Prophet

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    In place of thermal pads a thermal paste called IC Diamond can be used, its very thick, and uses diamonds as a heat conductor instead of silver or what have you. So its more effective.

    Try using that first instead of thermal pads, then you dont need to find the exact gap as it will just fill in because it is liquid.

    I had an X7800 in my old laptop and I was having the same problems, I had removed the thermal pad from the northbridge and since the CPU and GPU shared the same heatsink it was bad news bears. 90c is far too hot, it should be going to 75 max if cooled properly. The fact that your older CPU is running that hot proves that it is a cooling problem, that must be rectified or your laptop will die, mine did because I did not act quick enough.
     
  37. Judicator

    Judicator Judged and found wanting.

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    That's... really difficult to say. It all depends on exactly how bad a job is done. As an (extreme) example, some time ago I decided I wanted to take a look at how my CPU was attached to my motherboard, so I went ahead and pulled the heatsink off. There didn't seem to really be much, if any thermal paste on mine, just some foil with some sticky-ish stuff that was connecting the heatsink to the CPU die. Being just a bit of a noob at the time myself, I thought it might be ok if I just went ahead and put the the heatsink back on until I had the chance to go out and get some thermal paste. When I turned my computer back on, the temperatures would immediately start spiking and dropping from something relatively normal up to (if I remember correctly, because it's a time period I'd rather forget... >.<) 75-85 degrees Celsius or so. This was, by the way, under low-medium loads, just doing things like starting Firefox. After I ran out and bought a tube of AS Ceramique and applied it, it'll hit maybe 20 or so Celsius max after bootup without running anything heavy. I should note, though, that I think that brief period of time without thermal paste may have actually damaged the temperature sensors, as my computer often thinks the CPU idles at about 0 degrees Celsius now, which seems rather impossible since ambient temperature is rather well above that (like 17-19 degrees Celsius). Unfortunately, I didn't take any CPU core temperatures before my little "experiment", so I have no way of knowing if my sensors are actually damaged, or if they've been reporting wrongly this whole time.

    For the record, my processor is a T7200, and my notebook is a Gateway NX860XL.

    Probably, assuming your original installers did a good job installing the original CPU, you'll get temps back to something like what you had before you started changing CPUs, if not a little lower if you do a better job than they did. As for how much lower you can get the X7900? I have no idea.
     
  38. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    did your laptop died becauses the X7800? or died using other processor? and i think in most of laptops the GPU and the CPU share the heatsink... i am starting thinking in my case the thermal pads were doing a better job than AS5.. i would like to test IC diamond but i cant find it here in my country... well i am not going to insist trying to use the X7900 becauses it makes the GPU downclock it self ... thats the weirdest problem... but i just wanna fix the LCD thing and sell this laptop and get a new one..

    or i am going to sell the X7900 and get a T9500 that will be a cheapest choise...

    I really dont understand why is my laptop running hotter now than before, maybe i need to aply a thick layer of thermal paste.. uhmmmm.. damn
     
  39. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    well if you were getting 75-85 C max is not that bad as i was with the X7900.. and is the sensors were broken how did you know the temperature were down 20C???

    did your laptop burn? or are you still using it??? and how you know your laptop is running cool if your sensor is showing 0C (which is impossible).. i wish i knew how to correctly apply the thermal paste...

    but you as you said i need to aply a thicker layer of thermal paste and using a credit card this time.. to make it uniform....

    thaks for all the advices... i am going to creat a new thread to talk about my lcd problem.
     
  40. Judicator

    Judicator Judged and found wanting.

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    Oh, the 75-85 degree spikes were with practically nothing running. No stress testing or anything, just HWMonitor, mobilemeter, and maybe Firefox. Probably a few other background programs running, but the point is that those were the spiking temperatures under light load. I didn't bother trying to run anything more intensive as soon as I saw those temperatures. If I tried running a game or something, I probably would have seen it shutdown spontaneously... or something worse.

    The CPU sensors do work, as in they report temperatures that go up and down, roughly correlating with things I know are going on (they go up when I open up programs, up when running games, that sort of thing), I just don't think they're reporting the right temperatures. I think the sensors may be damaged and underreporting, but it's difficult to say.

    The laptop is still working, and I'm still using it now (in fact, I'm using it to type this). As for knowing if my laptop is running cool or not, normally I watch the GPU and ACPI temperatures. As long as those stay reasonable (especially since the ACPI sensor is close to the CPU) then I figure the CPU can't be jumping up too high.

    But yes, practice spreading thermal compound and make sure you tighten down the heatsink as tightly as you can. In fact, if you see a little thermal compound squeeze out the sides when you tighten down the heatsink, that's probably a good thing. Just make sure that if it's capacitive like AS5, you don't get it on the motherboard or any other contacts where it might short something out.

    And of course, in the end, if all else fails, you can always go out and buy some thermal pads and go with the quick and easy stick'um way.