bluray drives a standard now?

what you guys think? i think it is, even though you may not need it now trust me within a year we will see bluray drives in all laptops. Why buy a laptop with an outdated dvd drive? BR is where its at. Plus now laptops with BR drives are cheap, so get it and be future proof ready IMO.

 

And in a couple more years, discs will be phased out all together in favor of all digital content.

 

I don't see bluray drives becoming mainstream for quite some time. Definitely way more than a year from now. Take a look at how long it took dvd drives to become the basic option. And on top of that, how long will it take before we need bluray drives, as in we no longer get software on DVD but bluray? If the cd to dvd conversion is any example, again, we are looking 3 or more years at least.

 

more and more laptops are coming drive-less...and I think its much more efficient. Flash drives are extremely cheap, and it's only a matter of time when you start buying movies and media on flash drives (or skip physical media all together, and hop on the steam+netflicks cloud).

As we speak, i have a dvd-player with a usb hookup. Just snapped a 500gb external hard drive on there, converted all my dvd's to avi's to save space, and plopped them on there.

Voila....500+ movies in a little HD the size of my hand. Who needs shelves full of dvd and blu-ray cases?

 

Im also a big fan for the driveless notebooks with external dvd or Bluray drive.
Usually grab my games from either Steam, Games for Windwos Live, Impulse, Direct2Drive or EA Store so my dvd is pretty much never been used. xD
If you have to own a Bluray drive, just buy a external one, and hook it up to either eSata or usb 2.0 / 3.0.
Much more futureproof solution.

@ Waterwizard11
I too have a similar setup like you, but i convert my dvd films to highly compressed h.264 video with the original audio track muxed in and softsubs.
Add a NAS and a ASRock Ion 330 running XBMC and i have the most awesome media center i have ever owned.
Now i can store my DVDs safetly and stop worrying about scratches.

 

More efficient? Hardly. The move to manufacture drive-less laptops is motivated by economic more than anything else.

Again no. None of those are lower cost alternatives. In addition, streaming content no longer has the predicted advantage it was supposed to when it first became available. For one, providers have begun charging handsomely for content above a set threshold; and the days of "all you can eat" content are over. And two, you're at the mercy of whatever speed their system is limited to--which can be unpredictable slow at times.

A blu-ray player can do that too.

Let say you wanted to distribute your content. How much would it cost you to do that using that little HD?

 

I prefer my notebooks without any optical drive.

I'm surprised so many vendors keep selling them in their notebooks. Apple will probably be the first one to completely ditch them.

 

I wish more vendors had an option to replace the ODD with a 2nd HDD or SSD as opposed to 2nd hand DIY upgrades.

 

I don't see much content other than movies being available on blueray. So if I want to watch movies on the laptop than yes to blueray, otherwise no.

 

I would rather backup my stuffs on a few dvd- or bluray-disks rather than one hdd, so I definitely prefer optical disc over anything else.

 

Blu-ray drives are not the standard now. DVD burners are much cheaper and are still widely available in most laptops.

However, I do have a Blu-ray drive in my Sony NW series laptop and I rarely use it, but it is only worth it if you rent Blu-rays on a daily basis from like Blockbuster or Netflix.

 

The predicted price advantage in BluRay on laptops never materialized. Watching BluRays on a laptop screen seems to be a waste. Video out options are hit or miss, not to mention questions about protection schemes. And audio output. Only a minority of people output to HD TVs and large external monitors. It's easier just to buy a standalone BluRay player or a PS3. The laptop drives themselves can be expensive after market purchases or a not exactly cheap option or are relegated to premium preconfigured laptops.

Has anyone here ever watched a BluRay on the go? Best I've seen was in 2008 a friend with a Sony laptop brought it over to another friend's house to watch two BluRays on a mid-sized LCD. One night occurrence.

External hard drives and even UltraBay (or optical drives for non-Think Pad owners) drives seem much more cost efficient than a BluRay burner.

 

In fact, some computers are designed and dedicated solely to this. Also known as Media Centers.

Blu-ray drives also come with a HD screens (and other high grade components) to go with it. That doesn't seem like a waste to me.

One could also say the same thing about gaming computers. But that doesn't mean they still don't have a market.

I'm not seeing a problem here?

Well there you go. Try doing that with your dedicated blu-ray player.

More efficient? Maybe. But not nearly as convenient.

 

I don't trust optical for backups - unless they are short term, and blank BR disks are pricey to boot.

If you play BR content it's handy and certainly if you own a laptop for a few years I'd at least get the "play" ability drive, but writing is not really necessary even a few years out. Remember drives get cheaper and eventually BR writers will be $25 on Amazon.

Game content won't come on BR for a decade. It might even be cheaper to throw game content on a flash drive vs BR.

So if you play BR or are keeping laptop for 3+ years (for sure) then it's optional, but not required in all other instances. DVD has a lot of life in it on the PC side of things, just not for HD content playing.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure Sony would agree with any of this!! Although I would agree that they're not doing a very good job of promoting the product.

 

They can have BR drives for all they like, but I know that I'm just going to get a standard DVD drive, take it out, and replace with with a HDD caddy. I can see physical media distribution being so close to dead.

 

Ewwww AVI's??? I need to teach you some ripping/encoding wisdom

Since I just got a WDTV Live a few weeks ago I am turning my entire DVD collection digital also and comparing my rips to the standard .AVI rips is like comparing VHS to DVD.

MKV container w/ subs & chapters included with a H264 video stream and AAC audio stream.

3x the quality easy at the same file size I also may run some filters to improve the original source like denoising, sharpening, brightness/contrast. Though since I am doing so many movies right no I am just keeping all but my most important movies stock.


_________________________________________________

On topic: Blueray standard? May be a standard device on high model and media based laptops but it wont be a industry standard or something you need to have probably ever. Atleast not for 10 years or so. Why?

Well its great for holding movies because they take up TONs of space (34+gb easy for 1080p movies) but for computer games and stuff I do not think they will be making games in that size range for a long time, 5x games would eat up a full HDD, and people that took up low capacity SSD options would be even more screwed.

Games have increased in size a lot from days of the old, but they do not seem to fluctuate much in recent years, it depends on the game type but there should be nothing that requires blueray compared to DVD. Even for games that require multiple dvd's it would be absolutely a horrible idea for a publisher to produce BR only copies because they would lost a very large portion of customers because the 98% or so that use DVD drives would not get the game.

So first it has to become a industry standard to where even a low model laptop (less than $500) comes with a BR drive, and that would have to be in effect for several years before a publisher would even think about producing material that is BR only, and that is the first time you would "need" a BR drive, and that is of course if you did not get the digital version instead.

 

Doubt they'll be standard anytime soon.

What's the point of BlueRay? I don't need or want it.
(Unless you have an excessively sized TV and wish to buy your films on BlueRay then you have a good reason to buy it)

Any computer can read a CD nowadays - most a DVD - so unless I use a Thumbdrive these are preferred - or your own computer for presentations etc.

Cost per GB on BlueRay discs is high - and the burners are expensive - 200+€ for a BlueRay burner - for 80-90€ a piece I can get a 1,5TB HDD off Amazon, add the disc costs... so storage is out.

There is very little gain from BlueRay to the average person right now except that video segment.

And somethinn I'm not sure about - if I am not mistaken - earlier BlueRay drives in laptops couldn't burn DVDs or something like that? Can they do that now?

 

If they do, would that somehow force manufacturers to give FullHD screen resolutions instead of the that horrible 1366*768 (cause Bluray on 720p is blasphemy for people! )?

If so, then by all means I'm for it

 

For a website that's suppose to be filled with individuals on the cutting edge of computer technology, you guys seem to be irreconcilably stuck in the 1980's

We've heard these argument before. I believe the record enthusiasts are still lamenting the loss of the needle on vinyl.

Not at the moment. But I'll be will to bet credits to navy beans there's something in the works.

I'd assume it would follow the movie industry's example and support both formats--at least in the beginning.

Enter the PS3. And I don't pretend to be a gamer, but considering the limitations of the current technology, what other alternative would the industry have for growth? After all, 3-D IS where gaming is going...isn't it?

Incidentally, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Sony bet the farm on it's blu-ray format. If it fails, they'll take a huge hit. Therefore, it would behoove all of you to keep the faith and take stock in the new things that are SOON to come. Remember, you have to build it (the format) first, before they will.

 

Well as long as "standard" means no more price premium then I don't really care. BR drives are backwards compatible with DVDs anyways.

I just don't want them to jack up the average laptop price just so they can say "Hey look! It's got a Bluray!" if every single laptop(bar netbooks) has one -_-

 

And backup and distribution and archiving? I can think of a few things I'd rather be doing than feeding DVDs into my computer all day.

One might say that about new cell phones as well. After all, when was the last time you heard someone using those as a means for social or political advancement? Nevertheless, most of us spend half our salaries on multiple phone and fees.

Again, think cell phones. Every year they keep changing the button and lights and we keep buying and buying like mindless automatons. Think about it, can your $300 phone make a call any better than my $30 one?

As for the point in blu-ray? Lets see: nearly twice the resolution and 4 times the capacity of DV. You should be ashamed of asking that.

 

^ In my appreciation that would be the only advantage of a blue-ray: a high capacity backup utility. The essential advantage over HDDs is that the media can withstand longer if proper care is taken.

 

Proper care is one thing. Imagine bringing your external HDD in your backpack, and suddenly you drop your backpack. As opposed to a case of cds/dvds. All your data is gone. Or your 1TB HDD suddenly goes kaput. If one cd is broken I'll lose 650MB of data, I'll take it and move on. If the optical drive is damage get another one. But if the HDD is gone...

 

Anything can fail. The point is to have different backups on different mediums to ensure the best protection in the "worst case scenario". There's no single magical solution given Murphy's Law.

 

QFT! For this reason alone I would support BluRays becoming more popular in laptops. 720p should not be on any laptop bigger than 14 inches. Ugh.

 

Sure, but with HDD you lose more. Optical drive is less risky. No body's saying there is a magical solution.

 

What do you mean "lose more"? In the sense that you can store more on the HDD than a BluRay or DVD so the loss is "greater"? Both can be broken or turn faulty quite easily.

 

That's true, but the discs are a lot less costly if they do. I think you already know that, but for some reason are reluctant to change your view.

Nevertheless, you can't help but admit that the positives of blu-ray far out weigh the negatives--even at it's present level. As more and more people adapt it, the price will continue to go down.

 

It's not that there is anything wrong with bluray (other than a high price, even more so for burners), but there is currently limited usefulness.

 

I didn't take a side so idk why you're talking about changing my view.

I simply stated that there really isn't a guarantee for a media such as a disc to be "safer" than an HDD. The loss might be lesser in terms of financial cost, but that's in terms of the scenario where you already lost the data, it says nothing about the potentiality/risk of said loss. HDDs and physical discs are both quite easily broken or faltered in ways where their data can be compromised.

And really, cost in terms of money is relative. A 1TB external HDD is say 60-70$ nowadays in retail stores. A single BluRay disc is about 15-25$ for the 80GB variety. If you want to equal the amount of data of the 1TB disc, you need lots of BluRays so the actual cost might not really be that lesser. Sure prices will go down, I have no doubts about that though.

I'm in no way, shape or form saying "BluRay is bad"; I do not recall ever writing that . In fact, I agree Blu Ray is good >.> My interjection was merely and purely in terms of the subject of backup'ing data, not any other aspect of using BluRays.

I was merely advocating that in the case of "loss of data", variety and quantity is key. If you have 3 backups on say 3 different types of media, then you've got a better solution than any singular backup media can provide.

BluRays aren't bad in the same way as DVDs weren't bad. It's another step.

 

What is so hard to understand about that? You lose a 1TB of data vs a 650MB of data. You drop a case of discs, you might break a few, maybe a couple of GB worth. You drop a 1TB of HDD, you lose 1TB of data.

Both can be broken, but you have to break each cd/dvd disc, harder to do unless you _try_. The HDD, not so much harder. Easily broken in an accident.

By the way, try breaking a 100 piece of dvd discs in a cake box without opening the cakebox. Now try the same with the HDD. You can put the HDD in it's case if you want.

 

I stand by what I said. The uses I see for BluRay on laptops don't seem to live up to the promise.

 

That's completely unrelated to the media as much as its numbers in comparison to its capacity. You're arguing the singularity of an external HDD vs multiplicity of CDs/DVDs in terms of a pro/con which in reality isn't so much related the media itself so much as its an issue of capacity and number.

If I had the same number, then both have pros and cons.

Compare a singular 120GB BluRay to a singular 120GB HDD. Yes dropping and HDD might break it whereas dropping a disc in a box might not, but sitting on an HDD won't necessarily break it while a CD/DVD will far more likely break. However the BluRay is smaller and more portable. See? Pros and cons.

 

BR for backup = No way for me.

I just bought 2x 2TB drives for $100 each. Thats cheaper than you can get BR Media for and thats a lot of BR disks.

First understand a few things.

BR disks are high capacity but still just like DVD or HDDVD at heart, its a disk and that means it has to be stored, gets scratched, can break, easy to lose, and other bad things.

Sure if you were backing up a 1TB drive who would want to "feed dvd's to there computer all day" but I would not want to feed BR disks to my computer all day either. Its less disks but still a chore.

Connect a 1TB drive and use a drive image software and be done in a very small faction of the time it would take with any disk format, no need to be there for it at all, start it and go away. The result is easier to store as well. I had to toss tons of CD's and DVD's because they started to take way too much space. I converted them all back onto spare HDD's now that cost has gone down so much.

The great thing about HDD is not only is it faster and cheaper but its fully modifiable. I can delete or add files as I need. Disk formats even re-writable ones are limited in that aspect.

Not to mention compatibility. I can plug that 2TB HDD into anything with a usb port (including my WDTV live, the reason I got it) my BR disks would be limited to only computers with BR on them.

Plus the reverse is true when restoring, you have to "feed" all the disks back into that machine one by one a very slow process and super annoying.

You may start to say "but if you break that drive you lose all the data", but this is backups I have 2 copies of it. If one breaks I have the original and can get another drive and copy it again. Its still cheaper and easier than BR Media and your just as vunerale to losing data if your doing it on disk format. Keep the original or put it all on disk. If its on disk and that disk gets messed up that data is gone. If its a computer backup most times you need every disk in the backup series to do a restore anyways, so if you did that backup method a disk backup is actually more risky than a HDD backup.

Restoring from disk is a pain even if its not sequential backups, say its juts media, even if you label the disks you dont know exactly what is on them. What if you have 40 movies on there? You think your going to fit all 40 movie titles on that disk? With the HDD its all there, plug it in and search for the file you want no hassles. So have fun playing jukebox with the BR disks looking for that one file you need, its just one of the many reasons I gave up disk formats for backup a long time ago.

Also keep in mind the HDDVD vs BR war. BR and HDDVD were the same technology, one of the things they had to do with BR disks to make them hold more data was thin the layer of plastic that protects the disk compared to DVD or HD-DVD. Reason is the data is more dense so the laser had trouble reading the disks until that layer was made thinner.

Result? you can expect BR disks to become damaged or corrupted easier than there DVD counterparts.

Back to the main discussion of this thread. It wont be and cant be a standard for a long time (for computers, this is computer related thread). Its a movie format, its the PS3 format. But it wont be a PC format for years and years to come if ever other than as an OPTIONAL thing, not required or needed for anything.

 

Can you tell me how you can break a CD/DVD/Blue-Ray by sitting on it? I mean, unless you have some kind of spikes down there... in which case the HDD may have better chances due to the enclosure...

But putting the joke on a side, a CD/DVD/Blue-ray has better chances of survival than a HDD. And yes, I agree that if you lose any of them then they are lost forever (unless the HDD has a GPS chip...), as well as right now HDDs are cheaper than BRs.

 

See my larger post above. Thats not true.

640GB of info in one small USB powered 2.5" drive
or up to 2TB in a larger 3.5" drive.

You can hold way more on HDD in way less space than BR.


A sub section of "portable" is also "compatible" and again the 2.5" drive can plug into your netbook, your work computer, your anything. The fact it can work with everything in return makes it more "portable"

the BR disk is limited unless you want to carry a usb BR Drive with you as well

 

One thing you are forgetting - if you drop a HDD - most of them, especially the 2,5" ones are pretty tough nowadays and if they are off they can even withstand a light drop - but you can always have them recovered

Yes, HDD recovery is expensive - but it can be done - while if a disc is damaged it cannot be recovered ever - especially CDs are vulnerable.
(scratch the printed on side and the data layer comes off)

if you drop your HDD and it breaks - send it to some specialists to recover - it might cost a lot, but can b done - if you have a backup - you can, as Vicous said just copy over.

Lifespan - well, HDDs will keep the data what? 5 yeas? 10 years? - they are pretty much proven copy it over once and its fresh - with BlueRays nobody knows how long hey last - they might fall apart after 2-3 years... who knows?

HDDs are proven technology - BlueRays are not - that's why tape is still around, large capacity, proven technology.

 

I'd rather have no optical drive and an HDD in its place.

I think I can count on my hands how many times per quarter (3 months) I use my DVD drive. I don't use it to watch movies (that's what avi's, mp4's, and mkv's are for). I don't use it to install drivers (they're all more updated on manufacturer's websites). I rarely use them to burn CD's or DVDs.

seems better to have the DVD drive external and the big HDD internal, than the other way around these days.

 

Well, if the heads in the HDD get damaged it is basically game over for that plate (some HDD have several plates) and if it happens to the head that clicks the start of the HDD then it is definitely game over, no matter how specialist is your specialist. Similarly the life span of a CD/DVD/BR is comparable or greater to a HDD, it all depends on how careful you handle such media (both optical and HDD).

I think overall Vicious summarized the real advantages of a HDD over the optical media (price apart) which I didn't consider in my previous post. This is basically the all around compatibility of HDDs everywhere thanks to the USB technology and the considerable speed advantage of the HDDs.

 

They key to safe data storage no matter what way you decide to go is to have a backup.

If its files on your computer, keep a copy on that external drive.

If its data being taken off the computer and archived, archvie it into 2 places (two disks or two hard drives)

It just is so much easier and faster with hard drive, and the market has allowed it to be nice and cheap now too with 1+TB drives getting in the $100 range.

The evolution of DVD --> BR did not change any of the disadvantages to disk backup/archive except one. You need less disks to do it.

But with that new benefit are several disadvantages.
> cost of media higher
> BR drives expensive and rare
> BR disks damaged easier than DVD's
> Loss more data per disk if lost/damaged

HDD is the way to go. Even if I was a big BR movie fan (the only reason to have BR Drive IMO), I would rip them to a HDD and not use the BR disk itself.

I can compress a BR Rip to 3-5GB easy with no detectable loss of quality and have 500+ movies ready to view at any time on one disk rather than have to waist all that space the movie disks take up or look for the movie I want.

If your a movie fan I highly recommend something like the WDTV Live, I just got one and its awesome. I got those 2x 2TB drives I was talking about earlier (one on PC for ripping/storing and 2nd mirrored connected to the WDTV for backup and viewing) and now have every single one of my movies ready to view at any time including full 1080p BR rips with no disks hassles.

Im still taking tons of my old anime of CD & DVD and putting in on the new HDD's I just cleaned out a whole file cabinet drawer worth of disks by doing this. I will never look back at disk format for storage. Now i ca have 1 HDD in that drawer instead (and not have to hunt for a disk that has the content I want, big +)

 

True, HDDs are a lot more convenient than physical disk medias like DVD and BR. During transition of CD to DVD, it was a time where even a 20GB hdd is considered big, and it's expensive as well, which was what made DVD popular. Right now, with HDDs being so cheap, hardly any point to use BR.

With HDD, I can just plug and play with USB, at a much faster read/write speed than the BR, much more durable than the BR because I can actually just place it anywhere with an external HDD, unlike a BR or DVD where I have to carefully store it in a protective casing then put it somewhere so that I don't accidentally crush it with something heavy.

Technology advances will only be interesting for people if it's actually going to serve any purpose for the individual concerned in the first place. I'm really not going to be excited about some new technology that allows you to use a notebook 1km under the ocean or something.

 

I am only looking forward to the next HDD advance

2.5" moved from 250GB platters to 320GB so now you can get 640GB 2.5" drives.

However we have had the 2TB mark for 3.5" drives for a while now, so I am sure the technology is there to make that platter size larger and give us like 3TB drives or something.

The ultimate companion for archive & backup is a little dedicated system running Windows Home Server with 2+ HDD's inside of it. It can do selective redundancy, do automatic backups, stream your media, host a blog. It does it all. Id invest in one of those rather than throwing money away to BR disks.

The disks are a constant investment too, I never trusted RW optical media and I am sure a RW BR disk is super expensive. So for things like backup its nice to backup over and over again to that HDD rather than burn new disks each time.

Plus since it can be automated you can backup as often as you like with no hassles to yourself when using the HDD route with software or a backup server like WHS.

 

IMO , blue ray drives are not standard but its something good to have since we have more and more films comming out on blue ray. With 3D content , blue rays are only practical way of distribution so ur going to have to buy one sooner or later.

 

The evolution of DVD --> BR did not change any of the disadvantages to disk backup/archive except one. You need less disks to do it.


Hello!

I've read in many places that the Blu ray discs have a special anti-scratch coating that makes them more durable than DVDs and CDs so it would make them the most resistant massive optical media nowadays.

Besides, as I understand, depending on the build quality, the half life of an HDD is from 3 to 7 years (sometimes 1 year and others 10 years) while for a DVD it can easily reach 10 years or more if proper care is taken beacuse it doesn't have internal moving parts (less parts in a system produce less enthropy [disorder] over time).

I know that it is not possible to prove that on BDs (it's a matter of time) but I think it's not crazy to assume that, being -somehow- scratch proof, BDs can last longer. It;d be interesting, though, to evaluate how this coating and that thinner width of the BDs, altogether, affect durability

Please, correct me if I'm wrong in my statements.

 

I don't see them being standard ever, they cost too much and I don't think anyone is ever going to use them much outside of film. Most other content has seen or is seeing a continuous shift towards online direct downloading, and for what hasn't, DVD is plenty large and it would take a lot of investment to move toward yet another optical media format. By the time it would be useful connection speeds and prices will become even more vast and there is flash media as an alternative as well. Blu-ray right now is only necessary if you want to watch high quality high definition video and the particular content you're seeking isn't being allowed through other chains like direct online downloads or over-the air streaming.

 

'LaptopGun' better to say 'watching Blurays on a CRAP laptop screen seems to be a waste'. I'd absolutely agree. However, watching blu-ray on a proper quality latpop screen is a joy. I can say for sure because I have one. With this a given; if you can't tell the difference between this and DVD quality you need to see an eye doctor - seriously.

It's only because folks have been fobbed off with truly mediocre to down-right crappy laptop screens for ages now they might think like this. Most folks have never actually seen a decent laptop screen. It was the same issue with HD TV's until folks actually got themselves down to BestBuy or whatever and saw for themselves....

With HDMI output is a breeze - my laptop plays beautifully and faultlessly to my HDTV via HDMI. Just because only a few people are doing it now doesn't mean it wont' grow to a majority in the future. You could've said the same about HDTV's 5 yrs ago.

Having said that, I don't have a burner, only a reader because I'm a movie fan. Certainly for a media-focused latpop I think it's a must-have. I think the studio's and what have you are going to continue with blu-ray for a while to come because it gives them more control, though who's to say for sure what's to come. So you need a blu-ray to read. But writing/burning - not so much. Once you've read, there are more options (so I hear ) to archive and view HD media.

 

I'd take an extra storage slot over an optical drive any day. Optical drives are much, much slower than HDDs in terms of read/write speed. I have no use for Blu-ray until the discs and drives become much faster for backup purposes. Currently, HDDs give me more speed and storage space at a lesser dollar amount.

As internet connections get faster and faster, we will see an even larger expansion of digital distribution schemes that will make BD pretty much useless for the computing realm.

The only place where I see BD being viable in the long run is the home theater space. Right now, the most painless way to get 1080p movies into your living room is a BD player. The discs aren't too expensive and the players are coming down in price.

 

If laptop manufacturers are wise, the consumer should have both!

In fact, that's the only way to get view HD content in it's most advanced form. And as I stated, before Sony has bet the farm on blu-ray's success. So if all the naysayer here are correct in predicting it's demise, Sony will be the next in line asking for a corporate bailout. Let's hope they're wrong!

And CDs 20 years ago.

Well that industry alone is worth billions. Then again, let's not forget about gaming. If that technology is to advance, the extra storage medium has to come from somewhere.

 

You're right, hard drives, flash, direct loading/Internet streaming... for gaming that is. The main reason to go with BD is control and maintaining the status quo, ie not allowing competitors a chance, tying cost of media into costly technology, patents, etc.