determine max MB buss speed for RAM upgrade ???

In a follow up to a post I made here earlier: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=309332

I still have a few questions, this LT came with RAM spec'ed at PC2100 but at HP"s site they recommend a RAM at PC2700 for the upgrade, also I think PC3200 will work as well

I think so long as stay with a 200 pin SODIMM and below the 1 gig manufacturer limit any of those will work.

So how can I determine what the max my present MB Bus speed can run as if a memory stick isn't going to run any faster then that I figure why buy it.

I've been researching the info for this on the board for this LT (btw it is a HP ZE4560us) all day and this is pretty much the info I think would be relevent.

HP Motherboard PN: 319613-001

Everest Home reports about the Front Side Bus properties:

Bus Type: DEC Alpha EV6
Bus With: 64-bit
Real Clock: 133 (DDR)
Effective Clock: 267 MHz
Bandwidth: 2133 MB/s

It also reports that the North Bridge is an ATI- Radon IGP-320M

But CPU-Z reports it as an ATI IDCAB0 Rev 13 and reports the South Bridge as ALI M1533

At any rate, does anyone have any ideas as to what this bus speed is and only will run at?

Thanks

 

266Mhz memory, busspeed is 133Mhz/267Mhz DDR memory running at 266Mhz DDR is what you want. Anything abow that will not effect anything really, you can buy faster if you want but it'll use a lower ram-profile so it works with the notebook.

I think you've figured everything out very good

 

I guess you have an AMD processor ? Does CPU-Z show the FSB (Bus Speed) on the CPU Page next to HT ?

And also, what is the FSB : DRAM ratio ?

 

I had a compaq evo 1015 in the past. It had an AMD CPU, the ATI IGP320 and PC2100 as original ram. When I upgraded the ram I used PC2700 instead (it was cheaper than the PC2100).

I didn't do any test/benchmark but I beleive that the adantage of the PC2700, and the PC3200 is their low latency

 

Hey Andy and thanks for the reply

As far as CPU-Z it shows the FSB (Bus Speed) on the CPU Page as 132.5. As far as what you mean by "next to HT" I can't find anything that says HT although I do see that on another PC I have that has a AMD in it but it is not showing on my Laptop, I guess this means it is not applicable to this processor

As far as this I can't find anything labeled "DRAM ratio, but if you mean the Rated FSB its running at 265.1

Note on these, I see in CPU-Z that for the core speed for the Core #0's core speed number at idle its running at 530.1 MHz at a x4 multiplier, if at all taxed it will jump up to around 1800 something then back down quick as I have to switch back to CPU-Z to see it. I think this is one of those CPU that has this ability to lower the clock as needed, so I am assuming it probably bumps the Bus speed up to the full amount then too, hence this is why I'm seeing it a bit lower at idle.

Also just to mention about your actually question, if the thing you are asking about is under the memory tab, in CPU-Z for some reason most of the info in the memory tab section is blank and grayed out, it shows only that is has 512mb and thats it. I'm assuming this is because there are no readable sections for that in the BIOS

 

Hey naton and thanks for the reply

Yeah the only thing is though, as far as the two upper range of the Corsair modules I'm looking at, the PC2700 and PC3200, the latencies (at least at those PC numbers) are actually rated higher, the stock PC2100 is 2.5-3-3-6, which is where my Ram is at right now, then the PC2700 is 2.5-3-3-7 and the PC3200 is 3-3-3-8.

So will my BIOS set these to a PC2100 number and run them at 2.5-3-3-6 and if so whats the advantage then of going with a higher PC unit, then, if it does run them lower, can they handle it?

Actually I think that is OK as most RAM as you lower the bus speed can usually run at a lower CAS rating, but what will it go to? Being that the PC2700 is already running close the same numbers as the PC2100, does this mean that the PC2700 will run at some even lower CAS number @2100 then the PC2100 would?

Is that actually what everybody means when they say that going with a higher PC number will give me lower CAS rates?

Then if that is true, then will a PC3200 go even lower?

I guess thats the big issue as basically I think that all that is probably true and would probably work correctly if it didn't automatically do this in the BIOS by default and I set it up that way manually but since I can't control or override any of that if the BIOS doesn't automatically do that what will I do then?

What I'm worried about is that if the RAM controls the CAS and my BIOS just reacts to that then if I put in the PC2700 or PC3200 module and it runs them at PC2100 because thats the bus's limit but then runs the CAS at a higher number then the PC2100 modules run as it is just reacting to that setting in the RAM, then this will actually hurt me if I go with a higher number PC rated RAM.

 

Which CPU and chipset does your notebook have ?

Since the FSB is 132.5MHz (and probably quad-pumped = 533MHz), the max RAM frequency that is supported is 533MHz (or 266MHz), so PC-3200/PC-2700 will downclock to PC-2100.

Also, try a different version of CPU-Z....

 

Hey Andy

The CPU I have is a Athlon XP-M 2500+, the chipset has been more harder to figure out, CPU-Z says its has for the Northbridge a ATI IDCAB0 and for the South its a ALI M1533, Everest Home though states it as a ATI Radeon IGP-320M for the North and for the South it says, ULi/ALi M1533/1535/1543. If you are really curious the HP part number for the board is 319613-001

Actually that is the one I am using.

Just to post, since my last posting , I got some real nice info from Neweggs website on the feed back on the different types of Corsair 200 pin SODIMMs others had bought (Newegg is the best IMHO too, I always buy from them even if their a little bit more as the are just great) and as far as when installing them to a PC210 system, some were good and some were bad, it seems that getting the PC2700 to work in a PC2100 machine is about a 50/50 shot while the PC3200 was more like a 20/80 pass or fail.

With this in mind I decide to look more at the Crucial PC2700 one that was specifically recommended and part numbered as a replacement stick for the ze4560us. I then also decided to have a online chat with their tech support chat line and had a long chat where I explained everything I had found out over the past few days and what my concerns were, at first he recommended the specked module but seemed pretty confident that a PC3200 would work to so when I told him I had found a 3200 unit that was recommended via their system scan option, he state that should work too and in both cases he stated that if anything I ordered didn't work, that within 30 days, they would gladly take them back minus whatever shipping cost's there were, so I have saved all the transcripts from the chat and ordered a set of PC3200 sticks PN: CT713043.

I figure at the least with all that if they don't work, I shouldn't have any issues getting a refund.

I would much rather have gone with the Corsair units and I still think they are great and will go right back to them again if I need to, but the only thing that concerned me was that I found from Neweggs site as well as their own board is that if you get any modules that they don't recommend from their configurator and they don't work, they get kinda well we said it wouldn't work and while they seem to still always take the mem back, I just didn't want to run into any issues.

Anyway hopefully the mem should be here by the end of the week and I'll see how it goes and if that doesn't work I'll probably try the Crucial direct replacement ones and if that doesn't work I'll go with the Corsair ones as Crucial doesn't even make PC2100's anymore.

I think in the end the only way I'm really gonna find out what will happen here is to just try it as I think I have research this as much as I can but I really appreciate all the great help and advice I have gotten from you an all the other members of the board, at the very least I learned a great deal and that is alway a good thing.

Thanks again.

 

I'm not an expert but sice the PC2700 will run at 133mhz instead of 166mhz and the pc3200 will run at 133mhz instead of 200mhz, then both should have a latency a 133mhz (or 266mhz = 133x2 because od the double data rate) lower than the PC2100 at 133mhz

meaning the PC2700 and the PC3200 should run faster/smother

 

I agree that they should and probably can without a problem, but with a BIOS that doesn't haven't any manual settings to change those rates, what determines what they will go too, is it something in the RAM or does the BIOS decide?

My guess is that the BIOS ultimately decides that as with an adjustable one, you can override the default settings but in the case where that isn't something you end up doing manually, does the RAM tell the BIOS what it should be and then the BIOS sets it from that?

Or does the BIOS read the RAM and what ever set points it may have hard programed into it but then tests it in someway and then runs it at whatever it thinks is best ?

As I think I have said elsewhere, my biggest concern is to pay for a higher PC RAM only to have it not add any advantage to anything and then maybe even end up having some stability issues because of its rating that I can't even correct because I can't change those set points in the BIOS.

At any rate as I mentioned above I've decided to give the 3200 a try. Hey if it works great, personally though even though the people at Crucial say it will work, I have my doubts, but the only way I think I will ever really find out is to try it. Then since they'll take it back, if it doesn't, I just try the next thing.

 

Yes, frequency and timings should downclock simultaneously, if both the modules are identical. IMO, lower latency isn't gonna improve the performance of your integrated graphics or memory-intensive tasks.

 

Yeah I don't expect wonders form this upgrade but if I can just squeeze a little more out of it this way its better then nothing.

I have three PCs, my main desktop which is build to the hilt and just screams, this laptop which I use for work but not to often and then an old spare one that used to be my main desktop that I'm now using for a MM an light gaming PC on my entertainment system.

Until recently that only had 512mb of RAM and got along pretty good until I just recently started implemented a regular backing up system of Sync coping and image backup programs as I almost lost a great deal of stuff from a bad storage drive and so with 512mb of RAM it kinda put a hurtin on that one so I decide to give it a upgrade to 2gigs and I have really seen the improvement.

Its not really all that much faster per say but it has a lot easer time of opening multiple programs and tings like that.

Interestingly the Corsair RAM I put into that was the same PC so at first I let the BIOS decide the parameters just to make sure everything would work and it was pretty good but then after doing some research on the RAM I set it to the CAS's that I found that other's had found this RAM could run at, which I thought were a little aggressive but also included a voltage bump, and I felt like I saw an even more of a bump in performance after that and it has been running great like that now for several weeks.

So now after doing some backups with my lap it is so slow with that and I have even been having some memory limit issues with one program so I looked at maybe getting a new one but I don't really use this thing that much and I really didn't like any of the new ones I saw so I thought for the cost I could probably get a little bit of a bump from a mem upgrade and since I'm having to get this stuff anyway, if I can get a little bit more from getting something that will give me a little more, such as a but lower CAS, I figure why not. But yeah I'm not expecting much but hopefully it will be enough.

 

OK all just to give an update, I installed the two Crucial PC3200 PN: CT713043 modules that their scan system said would work on my ze4560us laptop an that a on-line chat with one of there techs said would work but they did not.

The Laptop tries but will not even boot and dies and just runs through a recycling of that.

I guess I will now have to return these and get the PC2700 ones they say will work and try those.

…way to go Crucial !!!

 

downclocking can result in low latencies although this would need to be checked in the ram manual.
edit: didnt realise this was already mentioned

I dont recommend crucial... you can get the same ram at a much better price elsewhere! cheapest i could find:
if in UK get 2 of these: http://www.eurowide-pc.co.uk/transcend-512mb-sodimm-ddr400-chip-retail-p-31450.html
total inc. del. = £22.80

US 2 of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...Memory+(Notebook+Memory)-_-G.SKILL-_-20231045
total inc. del. = $23.98

 

Thanks jisaac;4041800, yeah I'm not a big fan of Crucial either, especially now. My first pick is usually Corsair but they don't recommend their PC2700 for this laptop.

Do you have any other manufactures that you would recommend?

 

the ram manufacturer doesnt really make much of a difference, i'd advise u to look at the links i provided. However OCZ/ Kingston / Corsair for performance....

doesnt make much sense to me the ram is a standard 200pin sodimm is it not?? no reason what so ever, that it should not work. Misinformation @

 

Just thought I would drop everyone a note and let them know that after returning the PC3200 RAM I got from Crucial I got their PC2700 that was more specifically part numbered for the ze4560us and it seems to be working great.

The Crucial PN for this RAM is CT526737 but the actual number on the RAM is CT6464X335.K8TKY

Which BTW as far as I can tell is a different end number then the one on their generic PC2700 200 SODIMM module.

I am using the latest BIOS the KA.M1.60

At this point CPU-Z is showing it is running at a 2-3-3-6 Latency on the 133MHz bus, which my old PC2100 ran at 2.5-3-3-6

I ran memtest for 8 hours which in that time it got to 1004.2% coverage and I had no issues and I have also run a complete file and folder backup of my root C: drive via a networked connection to a spare PC and everything went well and it even cut down the backup time from 2hrs 35 minutes to 1hr 32 minutes. So I guess you could say that the added amount of RAM and perhaps the tiny bit of lower latency defiantly made an improvement in the performance.

Also I should note that Crucial didn’t give me any issues on returning the RAM and credited back my CC account very quickly.

Hope this helps others.