mSATA help: Intel 525 vs Plextor M5M.

Here's a review of the Intel 525: Intel SSD 525 mSATA Review | StorageReview.com - Storage Reviews 9 Costs more than the Plextor ($175 vs $140) and has half the MTBF. It also has a lower Random Write IOPS (76,000 for Plextor vs 25,000 for Intel), although the benchmarks I saw for the 525 seems like it's the fastest msata on the market and it's Intel...
So which one should I buy?

 

Intel no if's ands or buts...

They know how to make SSD's for the real world workloads that matter - not only get good 'scores' in benchmarks...


The performance consistency is one area they seem to excel at - even without extra Over Provisioning...

Not to mention power consumption (or how I like to see it: heat output... - see second link)...

See:
AnandTech | Plextor M5M (256GB) mSATA Review

See:
AnandTech | Plextor M5M (256GB) mSATA Review



...

 

They're both excellent mSATA units.

Also see Storage Review's recent_Plextor_review.

By the way, you really should make the 240/256GB size your minimum size, which puts your purchase (using Amazon's current sellers) up to $283 vs $239 (Intel vs Plextor). If you use 3rd party Amazon vendor, make sure they're authorized so that warranty will be honored (if needed).

My own view on SSD units is to always go with lowest price, so long as they're in the same ballpark on reliability and performance, with possible warranty service also being a consideration.

 

Got the 525. Here's the benchmark with CrystalDiskMark:

 

I too am eyeing a couple of 128GB M5Ms. I'll be putting them in a RAID0 array. What performance should I expect of that setup? Anyone knows? I'm asking because I have a SuperRAID adapter for my GT60 so either it's mSATA RAID0 + 1TB hdd or sell the adapter and get a normal 2.5" one and a regular SSD (a bit of a hassle right now for me)

 

10 character

 

The performance you can expect after a few weeks use is: low.

Those specific, small SSD's, coupled with a RAID0 setup is a combination for a SE/re-install routine every few weeks/months depending on how hard you'll push these drives... - if sustained (high) performance is your goal of this system build.

A 256GB SSD (or larger) is always superior to a RAID0 array unless you're doing RAW 4K video editing (for example).


See:
AnandTech | Plextor M5M (256GB) mSATA Review

The above link shows how the GC on the M5M causes the SSD to effectively pause/stutter every 3 seconds...

See:
AnandTech | Plextor M5M (256GB) mSATA Review

Note that without TRIM the average write speed is ~35 MB/s - yeah... well below HDD levels (even at 2x that 'score' for RAID0...). And with a RAID0 configuration... TRIM is almost guaranteed to not work (and I'm almost positive it doesn't in the 'super-raid' MSI setups that I have 'played' with).


While it may be a hassle to get a proper SSD for your notebook (vs. RAID'ing two mSATA's...) it is still going to be less of a hassle in the long term and definitely the faster, sustained, long term solution to your storage subsystem requirements.


Hope this has helped a little?


Good luck.

 

10 character again

 

Cheaper one. SSD is SSD, they are all the same within a margin.

 

I stand corrected about the TRIM issue (and glad to see MSI has taken care of this) - but you are also running 2x 256GB SSD's instead of 2x 128GB models too (this may make a difference depending on how full felix3650 wants/needs to keep his drives).

Most certainly he won't be getting 'scores' like you though with the smaller capacity model...


Could you give more details regarding your O/S, driver versions (IRST?) and usage model? Also; are you able to compare your current system to a similar (but non-RAID0) setup?

Thanks.

 

There is no going back on my system now, but I can tell you that the test results are:
1) the same for windows 7 and 8
2) raid option rom is 11.0.x.x (stock raid rom)
3) IRST driver is 11.7.1013, 12.6.
4) usage model is the legacy 1762 (without the flashy light and back lit KB, stock gtx670M)
5) nope, I do not have a similar system

as a matter of fact I have just modified the unlocked 10U bios and changed the intel raid rom to 12.6.0.1033 (and had a mini heart attack during flashing the custom bios)
and tested trim with 11.7.0.1013 which worked
and am currently testing trim with both rom and driver as 12.6.1033 on both OS

 

qweryuiop,

Thank you!

The usage model I requested was your day to day usage of the system (what is your normal workload...).

I am also curious to see if the IRST v12.6 driver works better for you in real world use (and not 'better' based only on benchmark 'scores').


If my results with IRST v12.6 are any indication - you should see a noticeable improvement in the responsiveness of the system with the latest drivers.


(Are you installing the IRST drivers only (F6 method..) or the full gui)?


Thanks again.

 

full gui is what I installed, and from previous testing the driver v12.6 is not compatible with raid rom 11.x at BIOS level which renders trim to be not working correctly

and upon doing a very dangerous action of modifying a BIOS file I managed to replace the intel raid ROM 11.x with 12.6, trim check tells me that the modified raid rom works with both IRST driver v11.7 and v12.6

 

unfortunately I do not know of a method to monitor my daily writes, all applications i found don't give me the lifetime writes and power on hours and so on since they don't detect my SSDs in a raid setup

 

I can provide you with my crystal disk info smart data for both drives, but its up to you to correctly analyse it, currently running SSDready to make estimates

 

Sorry, I don't want numbers... I want to know how you use your system on a day to day basis (what is your workflow...).

Sorry I wasn't clear before.


You may want to install (via the 'upgrade' drivers options in Device Manager) the default MS SATA/RAID driver, uninstall IRST (full gui) and then do an F6 (drivers only) update of the default drivers... This gives me the most stable and responsive systems so far...


Thanks for the info so far - very interesting (and may change my mind about RAID0!!! again).

 

I barely touch the SSD partitions, temp files and google chrome cache is in the OS partition
bitcomet and web download clients go through traditional HDD
regular raid volume image taken every week onto internal 2Tb WD green
before taking the image run ccleaner and glary utilities, malwarebytes and MS security essence and restart to make system clean
what else?
perhaps just launching media players and MS office and read files from HDD (which I suppose since the program is launch only so it does not incur writes to SSD...)

 

I will test out the F6 drivers, however I have a problem in mind, do I use the corresponding windows install disc(ie. windows 8) and go through the installation procedure and add the F6 drivers then quit installation, or some methods that I do not know of (dos flashing F6 drivers? I guess thats not the case)

 

Okay, so it seems like your workflow use of this fast storage file system is very 'light' then? Something others may want to keep in mind with regards to sustained performance over time.

As for the 'F6' drivers - sure, you can use them during the install procedure. But you can also use them after Windows is fully setup:

Download the 'F6' drivers from Intel:

See (direct link to IRST 12.6.1033 x64 bit drivers):
http://downloadmirror.intel.com/22787/a08/f6flpy-x64.zip

See (download page for all versions of above driver):
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/De...apid+Storage+Technology+(Intel®+RST)&lang=eng


Once downloaded, extract the above drivers and copy the path.

Right click Computer and select Manage. Select Device Manager, select IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers.
Select the controller you want to update drivers for (double click), select Driver, select Upgrade driver.
Select Browse my computer, select Let me Pick (this is also where you would first select 'Standard SATA AHCI/RAID Driver' prior to uninstalling the GUI portion of the IRST drivers currently installed) and choose 'Have Disk'.

Paste the path you copied above and you will see the upgrade drivers available for your controller. Select, close and reboot the system a couple of times to ensure the new driver is fully installed.


Hope this helps.

Good luck.

 

have not realised much difference on benchmark test, still fluctuates within acceptable range
however skipping the GUI definitely helps on boot up speed

 

You never did address if the IRST driver makes any difference for those who only use a SSD (me).

As far as I know, IRST is not needed if one only uses SSD drive(s).

All ears.

 

You are right, however as a RAID user the default intel raid rom is not enough to enable and correctly execute trim

 

Not needed is far from 'required to run optimally'.

IRST? YES!!! (With all systems whether HDD or SSD or HDD & SSD).


But of course, if you don't try it on your system - you'll never know if it's 'required' or not (you should be able to tell with your 'normal' usage).

 

my only concern is when using driver only and if I accidentally disabled write back cache, where on earth can I re-enable it(we all know how big the windows registry is)

 

Device Manager, select Disk Drives, select the drive you want to change: Policies.

 

shouldn't be that simple, theres 2 options on the GUI, one to alter the policies and another one to properly enable the write back cache(although its enabled now from the benchmarks but just in case if the policies changed by accident the proper write back cache should be reset to disabled no matter what I do to the policies)

 

4K performance doesn't change that much between a 256GB and a 128GB SSD. What changes the most are IOPS numbers and sequential transfers. The controller and it's firmware is what makes the difference.
With RAID0 I won't be reaching those sequential write speeds but with 4K I should be around 95% that.
The SuperRAID adapter is just a signal extension board for those mSATA SSDs. It does not have a controller. Everything is done by the Intel chipset.
Also a single 128GB m5m is no slouch. I've seen 4K speeds of 30MB/s read and 70MB/s write QD1

I usually run 70-80% full on a SSD so not to degrade performance by much.

Nice thread guys! My thanks to both of you

 

if you looked closely to my benchmark you will see 4k qd1 write speed as 200 MB/s, which is what the write back cache did
however the reason to explain why 4k read qd1 is unchanged is due to the fact that under qd1, meaning that the 4k file is read 1 after another, and 4k file size is much smaller than the 128k stripe, this means that the array will only read off one disk at speed 1file at a time, rendering the 2nd disk unused

however in qd32, meaning that there can be a maximum of 32 4k files being read at the same time, the array takes effect and so the 32 4k files can be seperated equally and read simultaneously from the 2 disk drive producing double the figures a single drive can give

this also simulates launching a program, where upon clicking on the launch icon multiple files will need to be read in order to get the program running both visually on the screen and logically enabling its function in the operating system, real world performance depends on OS/ program responsiveness so IMO 4k QD32 is the most realistic simulation

 

Searching wiki for "rapid storage technology" pulls up "Intel Matrix RAID" at: Intel Matrix RAID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TRIM isn't any easier at: TRIM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the best (last of course) is "write amplification" at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification

 

1st line of description: TRIM command allows an operating system to inform a solid-state drive (SSD) which blocks of data are no longer considered in use and can be wiped internally.

This is exactly why RAID users need IRST, because the OS informs the array but the array doesn't execute the commands properly, I've done the tests, IRST needs to be in the system for TRIM to work

 

I don't use RAID. In fact, I've looked long and hard at the Lenovo/Phoenix BIOS on both my laptops and have not been able to see any mention of the word "RAID"

Which RAID are you using, what laptop, and why are you using RAID w/ 2 SSD drives?

I mean there've been repeated posts in this forum to NOT use RAID w/ SSD drive(s)!

 

I've for the MSI GT70 barebones version, and it uses an AMI BIOS, which has the BIOS option to change from AHCI mode to RAID mode, that gives me the option to setup a raid array before loading into the BIOS menu, by pressing ctrl + I

There has been repeated posts in the forum to not use raid due to one main reason, trim, and some minor reason that happens to any raid array

however the stock bios which comes with the option rom for hardware raid, supports trim on raided SSDs when IRST is installed, thus by eliminating the main reason not to raid ssds, I'm fully confident on setting up SSD raid 0, especially with the 2TB WD green drive installed in the laptop I can always have a system image on hand just in case the array goes bad

 

and yes, the reason I use RAID 0 is for flashy numbers and nothing else, perhaps my steam folder, windows 7 and 8, is too big for a single 256Gb drive and 512Gb msata drive are at that time not released to the public

 

qweryuiop,

looks like you've done your homework w/regards to RAID0 - just curious about the 2TB WD green HDD - that is in an external enclosure, correct? (USB 3.0)?

 

it fits physically into the 2nd drive bay inside my laptop and crystal disk info doesn't indicate any heat issue on the drive

 

Nice setup: I was getting confused about the 3.5" model for a second...

This is a 15mm z-height 2.5" drive though - so your notebook is one of the few that can accommodate this drive.




...

 

I used to have a WD10TPVT that was 12.5mm in thickness and fitted nicely on my old GT780DX. Put some ruber stoppers just to fix everythig inplace and it ran like a charm. The lower hdd slot had space
I'm learning a bit from you guys. Thanks for all the info!!

 

Hey guys, I need some advice here.. I just ordered a clevo p370sm and I went with 512GB of SSD 840 pro with a second HDD 2TB WD, now Im having second thoughts of getting an mSATA SSD mainly for OS, and programs, what would you recommend me or should I stick with what I have? Feels like 512GB SSD wont be enough for program, and games.. (HDD will be for storage, movies, and pictures etc.)

 

Heaton, I have noticed you have posted the same question in at least a couple of threads. May I suggest you create your own thread and just post the question once there? This way people are more likely to see it, as it can get buried here.

 

very nice i will be doing same soon

Anyway guys I red few posts arguing here that trim is not working in RAID 0 ..
What you need to know is that you need to have installed intel RST at leas 12 version .. all versions under 12 DOESNT SUPPORT TRIM !! EVEN if your system shows it works ..