replace desktop with laptop?

Hey, I was wondering if someone could help me by providing their own perspective and insight.

I wanted to upgrade my machine but I've been wanting to buy a laptop for a long time.

I thought rather than get both right now, I could put my money towards the best laptop I can afford.

I own a system that has a Q6600 and that's all one really needs to know, I guess. If I sell my components, I might get $250-ish or thereabouts. If I can raise $300 and then get another couple of $200 or more, I can get a decent machine.

But, it looks like an upgrade over my Q6600 desktop would have to be an i7 laptop. I priced one i7-2670QM about $800. That's not too bad considering I'd have to find about $500 for an 1155 desktop system. I'm not a gamer so I don't really need the top graphics cards. But, laptops are said to be short-term hardware with a short shelf life and that's what I'm worried about.

Desktop systems, even if custom built, last .....uh...forever? Or at least, several years providing the cooling is good.

Any advice? A nice laptop that is considerably better than my desktop probably costs twice of what the new desktop would cost, probably, but would serve me better in many ways. I also thought of buying a laptop and then I could try to get a desktop (server?) later or the other way around. I just thought if I had $300 from sales of my components and put together another few hundred, I can get a good laptop now.

Any chances for Xmas sales or maybe it doesn't matter what season you buy laptops anymore?

Desktop hardware is still a better deal for price/performance so maybe a more powerful desktop/budget laptop is a better combo. I dunno...

I need another perspective.

H E L P?!?

 

Right now you can get a new full featured laptop for less than $300, if you only do light like web browsing or playing video on it, then it would be perfectly fine. And you can upgrade your desktop with the budget left.

If there is no obvious reason for you to have a desktop, and you don't play games, then a Sandy Bridge i7 quad core laptop should be powerful enough to be your only computer. Mobile version of i7 quad core is not far behind the desktop version in term of performance. You can use it as a desktop PC with external monitor, mouse and keyboard.

A laptops should have a life expectancy as long as a desktop, if used as a desktop. Just remember to clean the dust in the fan regularly.

Have a look at this one, should be enough for you and you can put SSD to make it very fast:
Newegg.com - Acer Aspire AS5755-9401 Notebook Intel Core i7 2670QM(2.20GHz) 15.6" 4GB Memory DDR3 1066 500GB HDD 5400rpm DVD Super Multi Intel HD Graphics 3000

 

If you don't really game, then an i7-2630QM or i7-2670QM laptop will do fine and last you a while.

The short shelf life really comes from gaming laptops because game software tech moves leaps and bounds year over year and GPU's move to keep up.

But for basic computing, a Sandy Bridge quad core should last you quite some time.

If you need/want portability, a laptop is clearly for you. $800 is a reasonable budget for a quad core with a 1080p screen. Just search for coupons if you buy from HP or Dell because they have frequent good deals. Maybe best to fill out the form in the "What Notebook Should I Buy" section here at NBR.

 

FWIW, I've basically been on a laptop-only ecosystem for years now. IMHO, if you don't do any really intensive CPU/GPU work, even the most basic i3/i5 machine is more than powerful for your needs... I haven't really felt performance-bound since the original Merom Core 2s. These days I only upgrade to take advantage of thinner and lighter.

An SSD helps too.

 

What is your typical workload? Are you experiencing slowness with the Q6600 (you shouldn't be for most tasks) or are you just being told by the marketing types out there that it's time to upgrade?

Are you able to overclock the CPU in the desktop? If you can, that should easily give you a few more years of relevant performance. I can't imagine a Q6600 at 3+ ghz being any slower than a 2.0-2.2 ghz Sandy Bridge i7. For what it's worth, in video encoding (a perfectly parallelized and threaded task that uses 100% of all available threads/cores), the Q9550 in my sig blows the pants off the first-gen mobile i7 in my laptop, to the tune of being 2-3x faster.

 

The Q6600 (which is still not bad today, but is no match for an SB I7, even overclocked) will likely be pretty comparable to an I5, but even then, the processor isn't a big deal. More memory will compensate for a slower processor. An SSD will also zoom things along better provided you have the processor and memory to deal with it.

There are two issue with what you propose.
The first is load, desktops are designed to run flat out for hours and hours, most notebooks are not. If it has Intel graphics, you can pretty much assume running benchmarks for a few hours is going to shorten the lifespan. I have seen many Intel graphics powered notebooks killed by casual gaming, Second Life kills a ton.

The second, is graphics.
Graphics cards lately have managed to do quite well, but notebook graphics lag behind then combine it with the fact that you can't change it out leaves you replacing the entire laptop just due to that component alone.


All that being said,
If you don't game, get you the nicest I5 or I7 you can. Consider one of the new Ultra books, or maybe even a Mac. If you do game, aim for a good graphics system and build quality.

As for the desktop, the Q6600 is still pretty respectable. A bit of over overclock, more ram, and a better video card and it should handle anything you throw at it. The Core2 series, especially quads were way ahead of AMD. AMD only recently really managed to outpace the Q9550 and 9660.

 

In addition to all the very relevant inputs you already have, there is one question only you can answer - how do you intend to use this laptop? Are you really going to be mobile and hauling the thing around or will it just take over the desk space from your dear-departed desktop? If its the former, then yes, there will be an impact on the life span over a couple of years of use. If the answer is the latter, there is a closer convergence to a desktop lifespan, provided you keep the dust out and not run it too hot.

 

Thanks for the replies so far! Very interesting and good points so far from everybody!

I would like to have both but my reasoning to at least upgrade the desktop (which is custom built, not a barebones) is that I didn't want to invest any more $$ into old hardware. I have 4gb DDR2 RAM and I notice DDR3 RAM prices.... $40 for 8GB DDR3?!? I really didn't want to spend any money on more DDR2 RAM. That was a big reason.

Two, I have looked at benchmarks for the 1155 hardware and I am impressed at how power efficient it is. More powerful processors and the power consumption is so much lower than my Quad Core Kentsfield processor!

Ideally, I'd have both a laptop and desktop. But, my current laptop, a Thinkpad T41, I only want to use it for surfing and the odd movie. It's only good for XP and I want a laptop I can use Windows 7 with and one of the latest Linux distros. I want it to handle the more 'bloated' operating systems and features they have nowadays. I can't do so with the Thinkpad T41. It also has some defective hardware (usb ports, for e.g.). It annoys me that I still haven't replaced it!!!!

I thought I wouldn't upgrade again anytime soon so I wanted one of the latest, more up-to-date systems whether it's a desktop or laptop. Ideally, I'd get both. That's why I thought I'd choose one and then wait again but then my current desktop is a bit dated. It's probably good enough but do I really want to add more RAM? I guess I rationalize it via opportunity cost? $50 or so for more RAM could be spent instead on DDR3 RAM. Plus, the DDR2 RAM won't match... the timings will be different, etc. Maybe that doesn't matter but does any of that make sense?

There are times I would have liked to take my laptop some place (not often) but the T41 is not an option. It's just too problematic. I've been to places and the wifi doesn't work. Just annoyances... Also, the screen has a defect, a stuck pixel. The DVD Rom drive (another annoyance!: no burner!) also sometimes has problems reading discs that are otherwise fine in other DVD drives.

I agree about upgrading a laptop. Imho, best to optimize it as much as you can. A SSD helps for reduced noise, reduced heat/power (right?) and of course, it's faster and maybe smaller? No moving parts. A very good thing! The only con is storage/drive space and price but I these are getting larger in capacity nowadays? I haven't been paying much attention.

The memory, I'd maximize regardless ASAP as you can never have enough RAM. I think most laptops top up at 8gb so I'd want a laptop that has at least that as a max. Maybe those at 16, for e.g., would be too expensive for me right now?

The other problem with the desktop are a few components I'm tired of. I don't want air cooling anymore... lol. I don't want a tower cooler and wanted to switch to liquid cooling. Just the cheap ones, not the custom. So, another excuse to upgrade although not a good one! My case, I hate now... an Antec 300... crappy for cable management and not much room here to really mod. I thought of cutting out some holes but a project for such a small case with little room? I dunno....

I hope I outlined one or two good reasons to upgrade but I'm curious to obtain your thoughts. I don't think it's worth it to game on a laptop, myself, so I'm not too worried about that. In Linux, both Nvidia and ATI can be very problematic to use and those probably take a toll on battery life. Nvidia also still uses Optimus on many laptops, at least Intel ones, so I'd probably pass on those. I don't really want to look at Macs. I thought limiting to Intel HD 3000 allows more advanced graphics and video if I want. Battery life shouldn't be too bad? I'd have the laptop plugged in most of the time.

The problem is the cost of the laptops, of these better ones are still up there over $700 and lower than that, are less powerful or only equivalent to the Q6600 I have.

Well, that is how I was looking at it.

 

It would mostly be on my desk. I might bring it to another room once in a while, too, though. Very occasionally I might bring it to a coffee shop or something or to friends/family's place but very rarely. It's kind of a desktop replacement then? I would probably want to try connecting to a 20" or 22" monitor. The monitor res is 1680 x 1050 so I would just do that to have a larger screen when I want to. Might as well, right, when I have the monitor. Except, it is DVI or Dsub/VGA so I can only use the hdmi or dsub port on the laptop. I haven't done that often so I'm not sure how that would work.

I want the cpu processing power to be enough but not too weak. I think it's better to be a bit over than wanting more. Especially, if it's a laptop. Also, I want to stay with 2nd gen Intel sandy bridge mobile ones. I5-2410M, say, as min.? I just thought the i7-26xx processors would be ideal for a desktop replacement although way more pricey. I found some for $750 so that's not bad?

I thought 14" and 15.6" should be the screen size since it probably makes the most sense for a laptop although 13" is acceptable too but with good specs, is way over the budget. I don't really want something bigger even if it would replace a desktop. I have a 20" lcd monitor for when I want a big screen.

 

I just looked at options for an i7-2670QM laptop.

There's a Toshiba P755 from an obscure online vendor.... only one vendor selling it for $775. The Ideapad Z570 for $775.

The acer listed in a post is for the U.S. Newegg. Newegg Canada doesn't have it.

Those are the only choices, just two with anything else way over $800. I don't know if I can get to an $800 budget. :-(

The U.S. TigerDirect also has the Acer for $699. The equivalent Cdn version @ the TigerDirect in Canada is almost $900. Conclusion: CANADA is the worst country in the world!!!!!!!!

 

That is of course assuming your warranty is 3yrs+, and you get something with decent build quality. The short shelf life also comes from cheap stuff falling apart - unlike the IBM t41 of course which seems to last 5yrs+.

Thinkpads are good stuff... other lenovos not so much.

 

Its not uncommon to see a few P3 thinkpads on a weekly basis...

 

Yeah it does all depend on build quality. But my parents buy a new laptop about every two years, they each alternate between getting a new one, so they each get a new one every four years. But they last that long without a problem. They do basic web surfing, MS Office stuff, web chat, etc.

I had a Sony that lasted 7 years before selling it for $200, lol. And sold my Vostro 1500 laptop two years ago to a friend, and laptop is over four years old now, and going strong.

 

Honestly, your looking at numbers that matter little.
At idle, you would be surprised how efficient your little C2Q is, which is where it spends most of it's time. On power, doesn't matter as much as people think. As for savings, here is a good rough estimate on savings... 1watt, left on for an entire year will cost you $1. So a savings of 20 watts saves you $20, IF it ran at 100% all year long.

In other words, forget power savings on the desktop.
Fewer fans and hard drives do just as much as a more efficient processor. Sometimes more, and even then, it will take a while to make up the investment, if you ever do.

You cannot mix and match DDR2 and DDR3, even if the board supports both, it's one or the other. You could get a newer board that will run DDR3 though with your processor for about $50. So for a bit over $100 you could get up to 8 gigs.

DVD's are a dying breed. USB sticks are the future.

Very few water cooling kits are good, and unless you overclock like crazy, watercooling isn't needed anymore. In fact it's more for show than anything really.

Not to mention all your concern for low power just went out the window with watercooling. Everything you saved on the processor is gone due to powering the pump.

Antec 300 is small? You should see my file server, less than an 8inch cube. HAHA. I rather like the 300, it's a great case for the money. I do admit ther are better for the money now, but it's still respectable. You would probably like my old Supermicro Sc830 cube case. It really is a monster, wheels, watercooling, lights, and weighs 120 pounds(!). It sits idle now.

Intel makes whatever you buy for a laptop pointless to replace your
desktop. This is part of the exact problem, and why switchable graphics is a good way to go, but also increases the cost by a lot. The only way to have both is with switchable.

Gaming on Linux or Mac, sorry, I don't care what people say, forget it. I tried. No matter what, it is NOT like gaming on Windows no matter what you spend or do.

You can't seem to decide which path to take on this. You want an all in one notebook, but also a monster watercooled desktop and yet you can't really afford both. You don't want to do one thing because of cost, but then you are willing to spend a bunch to install useless watercooling.


My advice...
Look around Ebay to see what a used, but newer laptop (t43 I think is the newer model), similar to yours will run. Then sell your current notebook and use that to buy more memory for the newer one. A c2d laptop is PLENTY capable, especially for what Intel graphics will get you. This would be a beast for Linux and could probably run Mac if you put the effort into it.

This leaves you more to spend on the desktop.
Upgrade the memory or change the mobo to a ddr3 model and then upgrade the memory. This gives you a boost for the next upgrade where you can re-use the memory. Then maybe a video card. If have any left you can spend it on a better cooler (air or water), case or SSD.

 

We've been down this road before: Says who?

 

What makes you so sure they are staying?
Maybe instead of "says who?", you should be asking why we still need them. The only time I do is on older systems incapable of booting a thumbstick.

People have adjusted to Netbooks, cell phones and tablets not having them. Ultra books are coming without, next gen Macs are said to be rom-less. Microsoft and Ubuntu both tell you how to use a thumbstick to install their operating systems and some motherboard makers are using sticks to update bios. Microsoft even sells Office on thumbstick, Windows 8 will be sold on them, and how many others are heading towards downloadable formats? OSX Snow Leopard was a digital download before it was available on disk. Windows 7, 8, Office and Photoshop have all been, or are available for digital download, as are most games.

Even cars are accepting thumbsticks and USB media these days, Ford recently released an update to their Sync system on thumbstick and more than a few manufacturers let you use them for mp3s. I couldn't even tell you if the cd player in my car even works, I haven't used it. I think I used it 3 times on my last car.

DVD roms are also the most failure prone part of a PC, manufacturers would love to be rid of them.

 

Thanks for the long reply, Leslie. I appreciate that you took some time to reply to my message.

I have some concerns with some part of your reply and I think I should have explained my dilemma better.

When I am talking about liquid cooling, I don't mean the custom type. A closed loop cooler such as the Corsair H60, H80 etc. Or the Antec one. $50 to $90. I researched it and it's less than 25 watts power consumption. The Q6600 is considerably higher than the i5-2500k and not very close in performance. So, I don't think a liquid cooler adds much and it's not a large metal part obstructing connectors in my case!

You are right I am undecided about whether I need the laptop or should just upgrade the desktop. On one hand, the desktop gives more potential to get performance for the money but my T41 laptop is really defective. A lot of problems so it's not worth much. You said to sell it but I'd be lucky to get $100. Maybe $50, tops.

I should be able to get $250 for my desktop parts, at least, so that would be something. But, if I keep it and save up for a laptop, I can have both.

The idea to 'swap' the mobo for a DDR3 LGA 775 mobo would be ok if I could find an affordable mobo. Maybe this was a good idea a year ago but hard to find these used now. There's some G41 motherboards for $60 w/ DDR3 at some online vendors but then I'm going from ICH10 to ICH7. That doesn't sound like a good down grade.

I was just considering adding more DDR2 sticks but they would likely be different timings so some of the sticks won't be running at default. That's what I meant. I know you can't use DDR2 w/ DDR3.

I just don't like the Antec 300 case. There was no thought put into cable management. With the air cooler, there's no room to do anything when there's a huge metal tower cooler in the way so any need to unplug cables is really tricky trying to get fingers and hands around it. I just don't like it! I don't really want to take the time to mod it and no real room or workshop to work on it so..... OTOH, I'd be looking at another expense, a new case.

So, I was just trying to look at excuses to do something else, to get a LAPTOP instead.

I read the thread, i5 vs i7, and it looks interesting. But, if I sold my Q6600 and any related components, I think I'd like a laptop with comparable processing power.

Unfortunately, that looks like it'd be an i7-2630QM or equivalent. :-/

Ebay looks like a poor source to buy a laptop because of exorbitant shipping costs. Other than that, it would be ok but a lot of work to find something when you can't look at it.

Did I clarify enough?

 

puter...there is no doubt that a desktop is more cost efficient than a laptop. You will definitely pay double with a performance laptop, but the one thing i like about the laptop is the mobility. Gaming in front of my TV, then i can move it to my deck in the backyard. Once you get use to the freedom, its hard to give it up

As ancient as the q6600 is today ( i have one somewhere in my basement), it still does the job. if you haven't already done so, the q6600 easily overclocks to 3ghz which will give it a little more life

I've seen many deals at ncix and canadacomputers recently...Asus g53's and g74's are heavily discounted. Both with i7 2630's and at least 8 gigs of ram (depending on the config)

NCIX.com - Canada's Premier Computer Store - Online PC Discount Store, Buy Computer Accessories

if you look at the ncix link, it is unfortunately sold out, but they have an Asus g74 for $999 canadian which is $700 off. I don't know why they have a firesale on these right now, but that's a good deal

If you plan on going the desktop way, a 2500k, a decent motherboard and 8 gigs of ram will run you about $400. Just don't buy Harddrives now because they are up significantly because of the flooding in thailand:

PHOTO: Horrific Images of Flooded Western Digital Factory - Bright Side Of News*

 

Those coolers are nice, but they don't do any better than a tower with the same size fan.

25watts is actually more than you think, especially that you won't gain anything but space, and is more than you would save going to a Core series. My system itself uses less than 150watts while just running Windows, so 25 watts added is another 1/6th of the system. It just seems like you are not gaining anything doing this.

If you want water, do it right and get the real benefits. If you had no cooler, I would say sure, but you already have a cooler that is just as capable. The bad thing though is a full water system puts tubes in the way too. You can actually end up with less space and more clutter. Really all you will get with that other system is moving the heatsink. While it uses water, it's not really "watercooling" in the traditional sense.

As for the performance...
Yes, the I5 2500 is way ahead, but the Q6600 was so far ahead of the competition at the time that it is still respectable today, especially when overclocked. You are comparing one of Intel's current fastest, to something in the past. You don't need an I5 to run the latest games though. Compare your Q to the newer AMD's people are using and you are not nearly as far behind as you think.

Which would be a decent amount towards memory on the new one.

I'm not sure how much you would really lose going from 10 to 7, but you could double your memory and be more prepped for the upgrade later. I would imagine the extra memory would put you better off than you are now.

Put the slower sticks first, it will force the board to use the slower settings and should be just fine.

Depends on the sellers for shipping, just have to bide your time and catch the right deal. I have gotten some fantastic deals on there. Always count on a battery replacement though and always buy from a reputable seller.

A good seller with lots of pictures, showing it running, should give you the confidence to go for it.

 

You do have to remember you are on a first-gen Intel consumer quad. I put together a cheap system for my friend with parts lying around and it has a Q6600, 4 GB DDR3, 5770, etc. But, I find that the system is quite sluggish, even my MacBook Pro trumps it in almost every aspect (besides gaming), but CPU intensive tasks bog it down.

Even a SB i5 will be a great upgrade (plus mobility) for you, I know HP configures some cheap 15" systems with 6770ms that fit your budget. You might have to pay a bit more for the 1080p display, but I am not 100% sure.

I am just overall convinced that the Core series processors are just much faster, even if they can't match the core count. Clock for clock, SB is faster.

Now, I have switched from a desktop (P55, i7, GTX 560 Ti, 8 GB DDR3)/laptop to 2 laptops full time now, and I can say I am impressed. Even my last generation Asus G73SW spanks most games (and I have the lesser model). I guess what it comes down to is if you want to dabble with refurbished models, because you can save yourself a pretty penny.

 

NCIX annoys me, SlickDude! They are notorious for those 'deals' that disappear just as quickly. Imho, it's just to get you to their web page to look at the rest of the parts for sale including those NOT on sale. With that said, however, they are one of few who price match so I feel forced to buy from them on many occasion.

Also, this laptop looks pretty good for $999:

NCIX FORUMS - Screen Resolution on MSI GE620DX-280US - MSI GE620DX-280US Intel Core I7-2630QM 8...

$800 to $1000 seems to be the sweet spot for a really good, powerful machine. I noticed at another vendor, a Thinkpad T420 for just under $800, you get the i7-2630 but it has the Intel HD 3000 for graphics. Still, that's pretty good for a highly configured recent generation Thinkpad. I really like the look of that MSI, though. The ones you posted look good, too, but they're unsurprisingly, sold out.

Mobility?!? YEP! That is what initially got me into the idea of sacrificing the desktop build for now and getting the best laptop I can find the money for! I wanted it to be comparable or eclipse my current desktop build. So, $400 (desktop) vs $800 - $1000 (laptop). Yes, you are right but I suspected an equivalent laptop would be double.

But, the i7-2670 configured laptops are even more powerful than my current Q6600 build so even though it's doubled in price, at least performance is way better.

I could also compromise and get an i5-2410M laptop, say, but then it's more on par with a previous generation Intel desktop build, right?

Yeah, the HDD market is in bad shape and the prices reflect that? I wasn't planning on buying a HDD anytime soon. If I moved to a laptop, there would be no need. I plan on using whatever is in the laptop and upgrade to a SSD whenever I have the extra funds. As for a desktop, I have enough drives to move to the new build if that's what I ultimately decide.

The problem is deciding...
A) sell desktop components ($250 - $300) and use for new desktop or laptop
B) if I choose to buy a laptop, then which one and at which budget
C) if I buy a desktop - should I keep the other one or sell the parts off

The mobility of a laptop would really be convenient to me. Although, I'd like desktop graphics cards not to game but to experiment in Linux (lots of people helping to troubleshoot and install), I think I'd prefer the convenient of just opening the laptop and getting to work! Also, like you said, if I want to move it around the house or take it someplace is really inviting! If I thought I could easily have $800+ soon, I would probably commit to a laptop. Alas, I am not sure I can raise that kind of money quickly. I might have to consider i5 machines. But, the Thinkpad and MSI laptop would suit me for a long time!

It sucks. :-( I have a few things I could sell on ebay. I have something I could sell that I really don't want to that is worth $900 but I'd rather raise the money without resorting to selling items I want to keep!

The other thing about my Q6600 system is that the components will probably continue to lose value. So, I should decide pretty soon whether I'm going to sell or just keep it.

 

Of course.

I'm not interested in the real water cooling. It's expensive and the benchmarks show the closed loop ones do fine for what I want. Also, they are good performers often cooling better than a lot of the air coolers. They're just a bit more expensive but not by much. I think that's what I'd use if I was building a new desktop.

As for upgrading my current system, I'm still inclined not to want to spend more money on old tech. and hardware. Yes, there are options for DDR2 RAM. Selling what I have and then getting more of another brand or just adding to what I have now. But, it's old technology. I don't see the point of it.

The LGA 775 DDR3 mobo at least would allow me to move to some of the next generation hardware albeit only RAM. But, there's not much available used and the boards being sold at the vendors are curiously enough even older generation, ICH7 hardware. I read something about it not working with AHCI but I am not yet sure. It just sounds like there's limitations.

I'm inclined to think it's better to move to an entirely new system or just keep what I have and be limited to 4GB RAM and the rest of it. However, I wanted to run a virtual machine and it was one of the reasons I wanted a system with way more RAM.

The other problem with ebay is the higher shipping cost and I think many systems are overpriced. One good thing for sellers is that many ppl aren't aware of the value of various components but the fees are getting to a point in which it cancels that out. I could always take a look at e bay, though, if something good shows up.

It was good to get a bunch of perspectives and opinions since I'm undecided and it gives me some new ideas, thanks!

Fahrenheit, I've read that, too. The Q6600 is good but the new hardware is so much better and efficient. Yet, the Q6600 is still a good cpu and my machine is probably good enough but it will decrease in value over time and the chance to at least get $200+ towards something else diminishes over time in which I don't sell it.

What is most frustrating is that there are things about my build that I don't like that isn't really related to the processor. My case, my low amount of RAM (4GB) and the big air tower.... ;-) I'm nitpicking but still..

 

puter, what are you going to primarily use this laptop for? You mentioned no gaming, so no beefy vid card required, but are you going to be doing CPU intensive tasks?

If you can spare the coin, i'd definitely go with an i7 quad. The i5 dual cores are fast in their own right, and if gaming was the intent, i'd say get an i5 and a beefy vid card combo for the max efficiency.

I say, ebay your current q6600...you won't get much for it, but people buy anything and everything on ebay. Plus many overpay. Then get a decent laptop

One thing that i did with my laptop was i bought a core i7 2820 off ebay for $270 shipped then sold the i7 2630qm that came with my alienware for $290 (free upgrade lol). Lots of CPU's floating around

 

I do a lot of multitasking. CPU intensive applications I might do include the odd conversion of video and Gimp/Photoshop type programs. But, an i5-2410M (for e.g.) might be adequate for that?

A quick google for features I'd want and won't want to compromise much is screen quality and maybe resolution. The more I read about it, I thought I should try to get 1600 x 900 or 1920 x 1080 (min.) instead of the standard, 1366 x 768? Is it worth it to put screen and res at a higher priority than cpu speed or at least at the same importance?

I'm not too concerned about SSDs since I think the longer I go without getting a laptop, the better these are going to be anyway. Hopefully, they'll go down in price a bit and the storage capacity will increase (i.e. improve). I know a SSD make so much sense for less moving parts and probably power consumption is at least a little better. It might improve battery life a little, too?

I hope that integrated graphics is good enough so I'd want at least 8gb of RAM. I think i7 machines have 16GB of ram maximum? That's a good reason to go i7, too! But, a move from i5 to i7 is around $300 min. so I have to justify that price increase, also.

A gaming laptop is not my intent but obviously if I sell my desktop components or don't replace it, I don't have the option to game with integrated graphics. I just think that most gaming laptops are well over $1200 w/ a decent mobile graphics card and it's not my priority anyway. So, I don't need to consider the laptop specs in terms of gaming. I think the Optimus laptops are an option now that there's more possibilities and options for configuring for linux use. Since, they have the Intel switching, I can get good battery life when I need it.

I need advice for these possibilities and intangibles especially since I have no experience owning these machines and although I've done plenty of reading, I value the perspectives here since they have either owned the machines before and/or have done AT LEAST as much research as I have. Also, I am undecided and I need to see whether I can budget for the more expensive machines anyway.

Edit: I forgot to ask you about your sale of mobile processors. What is the state of upgrade options with these? I was told once that it's not worth it as it's too much of a hassle.

 

As soon as you say Multi-tasking and Video/photoshop apps, i'd invest in a quad i7. Even the base i7 2630qm would be a huge step up from the 2410. Will the 2410 do? absolutely, but seeing how the CPU is the most important aspect for you, get the i7 as the difference in cost is not huge if you fine the right deal. Plus is sounds like you need at least 8 gigs of ram because its so cheap now

Screen rez is one of the most important things. I'd go 1920x1080 right away. Forget 720p (1366x768). 900p is a compromise. If i'm going to use a computer for hrs on end, i want to look at a decent screen. A 1080p screen also gives you so much more screen real estate to open multiple app windows which will help in your multi-tasking

SSD's are coming down in price on a regular basis and they are improving with each generation. i will tell you this from my own experience, once you go to SSDs, you will not go back to HDDs. Its like seeing a color TV for the first time and then going home to a black and white set. Everything is so much quicker. The SSD will increase your computer experience inmeasurably. i get impatient now waiting for things on regular harddrives

My laptop will take up to 32 gigs of ram, but the cost of 8 gig sticks is just too high at the moment. my laptop came with 4gigs of ram, i added another 8 for a total of 12. I don't come close to using 12 so i think that's it for this laptop. I'm tempted to put in 1600mhz or faster sticks just to try them, but i'm holding off for now

A decent gaming laptop now can be found for about $1200-1500 range. The Alienwares are more expensive, but you can get really good deals on them if you know how to shop for them. For example, never order via the website, you always go through a reseller or call them and haggle. Big discounts are had this way. And you definitely can switch to the integrated graphics to save battery. I'm always plugged in so it doesn't matter for me

Well...with regards to budget, my philosophy is that life is short. Do what makes you happy. If it takes a few more months of saving or if getting that laptop means you have to cut back on one large Timmy's double double a day, then so be it lol. i just don't want to be looking back one day thinking darnit, i should have spent that extra few hundred on that laptop

Upgrading laptops are expensive...but my Alienware is completely upgradeable. Its just like a desktop, you can even upgrade the LCD screens on these. The only thing i haven't touched is the vid card and LCD. its not really worth it but it becomes sport after a while. When the next gen ATI cards come, that will be my next upgrade most people that buy Alienware change them up. In fact, many just get the base config because they will buy parts for them as time goes on. This is one way to spread out the cost a little, plus selling your existing parts helps to offset the total cost

 

Yeah would say just go with Clevo/Sager... just get the price a hair above $1500... then you get a -$100, pay in cash and thats about another -$40, get a promo code and you can get a really decent desktop replacement for $1300-1400. That was the point of my laptop, and I'm really happy with with mine. I would strongly reccommend at least a 128GB SSD, which will set you back around $200.

 

That's way over budget and you're suggesting I add $200 SSD drives?!?

Sorry, I would like that but $800 is a stretch even. I was just hoping somehow I could save that and I do have something I can sell that would get that. But, unforunately, I won't be able to buy a $1200+ laptop anytime soon.

I think it is a bit overkill, too, anyway.

 

Photoshop/Gimp, meh. Unless you are using some wild filter, you should be absolutely fine with with an I5. Newer Photoshop versions can even take advantage of the GPU.

Video conversion on the other hand is not something laptops like doing. It runs the cpu at full load for however long, which many laptops are simply not designed for. Apple, Some Sony, desktop replacements and gaming systems are built to take it, but the average system with an Intel video card is usually not. It will do it for a while, but it's not easy on them. And while they do have thermal slowdown and shutdown, that just extends the process making everything else heat soak.

I LOVE SSD, and SlickDude80 is right, once you have one, you will not want to go back.

However, I'm not so sure video conversion is a good use of one. That involves a lot of read and write operations. Many SSD's are not so fast on writing, and writing is where you kill the drive. Not to mention there is the size aspect of it all. SSD's aren't exactly cheap yet. By this time next year they should be relatively mainstream, especially since the Thailand flooding will have driven up mechanical drive prices up a lot by then, while SSDs come down.

If you are only converting small files, no big deal, but if you are converting dvd or blue ray, you are going to kill the drive. I would recommend a laptop with either dual drives, esata or USB3 and an external spinner when you want to do that.

The problem with integrated graphics is that it is really meant for normal office type duty and manufacturers build the system with that in mind. It won't like running a video conversion for hours on end at 100% cpu duty cycle. This kills a lot more laptops than people realize.

If you want a laptop capable of what you really want, save and spend the money. Just remember the graphics card will fall behind just as fast or faster than desktop graphics, and you are stuck with it.

It's often bios dependent as far as I can tell. Intel also has a habit of changing chipsets and sockets a lot. This unfortunately means in many cases there is not a whole lot of processors you can change to based on socket, then you have bios limitations, and then you have heat limitations. Notebook makers don't build in as many processor options as desktop boards do.

If what you get was offered with a cpu as an upgrade, you will likely be able to, but just because a newer model than yours supports it, doesn't mean your bios will. If you are lucky, all you will need is a bios update. Sometimes there is more to it than just a cpu change though, they may have changed to a bigger heatsink, different fan... They may have even made a minor board revision to allow for the new frequencies and/or voltage.

Many people in these forums have bought newer cpu's thinking they could just drop it in, only to find it won't boot.

 

Honestly people these are two separate configurations meant for two separate uses. It reminds me of that ages old and equally inappropriate comparison of a movie to a book. Each has it's own pros and cons and should only be compared to others of it's kind, not to each other.

The only way anyone should consider a desktop over a laptop is when they know for sure that mobility isn't an issue: That is, when it's physically attached to the structure, electronics, etc. Or when absolute power regardless of size and weight is your most important consideration. For that reason alone, a desktop will always have the advantage.

 

Krane, also when you need the best price to performance ratio.

I don't need a powerful computer anymore, so now I just plug an external monitor, mouse, and keyboard, as well as some external drives, into my laptop and I can barely tell the difference between it and a desktop.

I'm also a firm believer that someone who wants mobility and power should have a desktop and a laptop unless they absolutely need mobile power.

 

I agree. I think *everyone* should get both, myself. The gamers then can use their desktop!

It's good to have both as it gives the best of both worlds.

My problem is the budget/cost. To get a middle-of-the-road laptop is probably $500 and a good 1155 desktop is at least $400 to $500, min., so that's $1000.

A really good laptop, for e.g. w/ i7-2630QM, is probably $800 to $1000 so those are the options and that budget is really hard for me to attain in the short-term.

I'm just trying to decide which budget to shoot for, a $500 laptop, which almost certainly has i5-2410M, for e.g., or the i7 laptop which would limit me to a laptop purchase (only) unless I keep my current LGA 775 desktop.

I guess I could do that but then the parts will eventually lose value and I can get $250+ for them now. The other option is to sell the parts, buy a laptop and buy a 1155 desktop later on. Those parts might even get cheaper, used, as the newer architectures get released (next year?).

Many different options and theories but I should also decide on screen size and resolution as that alters the price, too?

I was curious about upgrades, too, because the idea of getting an i5 laptop and then fitting an i7 laptop was an idea but it sounds like it would have to be equipped with the right fan for cooling so maybe too much trouble?

Keep these good ideas coming! It helps! Thanks!!!

 

P.S. I'll probably connect the laptop to a 20" monitor w/ 1680 x1050 resolution. Does that mean I can use that res or am restricted to the laptop's res?

I still want a decent lcd screen w/ the laptop, though.

I just wanted to agree with the previous poster who does that. That's why I would be willing to go down to 13.3" or 14" screen but they seem very expensive especially if you want a good processor. But, I find a lot of merit in going for something light and thin but I also want good battery life even if it's not going anywhere. I think anything less than 4 hrs is way too low. I just thought I should add that info.

A laptop's function is to be portable, mobile but I would like the power especially if I'm not upgrading my desktop. Also, I won't get a SSD right away so I'm not spending extra on upgrading the laptop right away.

I don't need a gamer's gpu but if it's a hybrid with a basic Optimus (520GT for e.g.), that's acceptable. Whatever keeps the laptop under the $1000 threshold which I'm not sure I'm going up to but the Alienware looks good but unfortunately, probably out of the budget.

 

MBP's are NOT made for hard encoding. throttling and thermal shutdowns are common in osx and windows, on the other hand mainstream photoshop and gimo is great on a c50 APU in a netbook, unless your doing hard core filters, layers and files these 2 will run on anything over a netbook

dual drives are certantly an asset, I run an SSD for apps/os and spinners for scratch and data

nowadays for video transcoding and rendering the LAST thing you want is just an IGP, for some apps you dont want switching graphics either. a decent GPU to offload render work to is a huge asset and time saver as long as your software supports it ( most do now I think )

 

Nowadays, you have to either choose integrated or hybrid switchable graphics.

A Thinkpad T420 w/ 15.6" screen w/ 1600x900 res is about $800. Some MSI and Asus laptops have similar specs for around same price. Some people say the Thinkpad Tx20 screen sucks, though.

For cheaper, I'd be limited to i5-2410M laptops w/ 1366 x 768 resolutions. Some people say that res w/ 15" laptops is not good because you lose too much real estate. What do you think?

Also, I notice a lot of 17" laptops w/ 1600x900 screens. Why do they get that res?

I don't know whether I should go for 1920 x 1080 res. in whatever laptop I choose or not. That means 15" screens min., right? Also, I need an i7 cpu if I want 16GB RAM capacity max., right?

I'm also wondering what importance to give any of these. It might help narrow down some specs requirements or whether they should remain preferences? Or should I just make price be the priority?

Also, note my .sig... I'm fairly flexible with size of screen. I guess I'd prefer it smaller so to be more portable although it would usually remain at my desk or I will carry it to various rooms. It would be connected to a monitor quite often too to get a much larger screen so that is why I don't need a big laptop screen. My monitor is only dvi or vga output, though. So, is using an adapter for the hdmi of the laptop ok to get digital output? Can anyone explain?

Sorry, one more question I just thought of. Is there certain brands that use OEMs that do a better job at cooling and fan design? My brother gave me an older Acer w/ an AMD chip (Turion-64) but its fan gets so noisy, I don't even use it anymore.

Maybe Asus, MSI, Toshiba HP Probook and Lenovo are equally good or get the same OEMs but I want to also make sure the laptop doesn't get too hot or that it doesn't have a noisy fan. I guess that is more applicable w/ discrete mobile graphics cards so maybe there's nothing to worry about. Plus, the Nvidia cards w/ $800 to $1000 laptops will be less powerful cards so they shouldn't produce much heat and the switchable tech. will allow using the Intel card.

 

no there are still a large number of laptops and portable workstations that use dgpu only or some that have a dual MUX. Many a laptop with a 560 or larger does not use graphics switching either.

brand no series yes. HP has average cooling on their consumer stuff but the BEST on their workstation class and some business class. ASUS G series are good but some other models are bad. you have to judge cooling on individual models or series not the mfgr or oem

 

I stand corrected on those laptops w/ dgpu and the other. I suppose those are really expensive then?

I am wondering how one distinguishes on the series then.

Which HP series?

I'd like to know which ones they are for each brand so I can figure out whether any of them can fit into my budget and can match up which ones give the option of other resolutions other than the standard.

Thanks for clarifying the gpu situation although I probably didn't know because laptops over $2000 or well over $1500, I don't pay much attention to.

 

Sorry, but I disagree here. I have to explain this to my customers on a regular basis. You, like my customers, see that they could get a notebook with screen for less than a desktop and are often immediately drawn to it. There is a lot more to it than what you have stated.

Desktops have larger screens, and are generally more comfortable to work at. Yes, you could hook up a screen,keyboard and mouse, but you just pushed your price up higher, removed some portability, and limited the ability for dual screens, which a few of my customers are now using. You don't knock desktops off of desks accidentally, they deal with dirt and dust better, and they aren't a target for thieves. Desktops are also more reliable (especially hard drives) as well as easier and cheaper to upgrade. One other big point is cost of repairs. If your desktop screen dies, it's an easy fix. Have you priced costs and labor for a laptop screen lately? How about a motherboard? If the video system fails on your laptop, you can't just slip in a new video card. If you spill a drink on the keyboard, your desktop needs a new $5 keyboard, your laptop on the other hand is probably toast. Keyboards tend to take a lot of abuse, and in this case, it's directly connected to the computer.

Yes, some of this would be covered by a warranty, but not all of it. If it's not fixed on site, how long will it be gone for? It can take WEEKS! Can you go without for that long? Will your information still be there? If everything dies, can you remove the drive and image it before sending it in without voiding the warranty?


Despite marketing and perception, most notebooks are still mostly meant as a part time, mobile computer. Yes, most are able to perform as a desktop in common day to day items, but it is always a compromise and will almost always cost more in the end, be it dollars, performance, comfort or all three.

Actually, Apples do handle it better than most Intel graphics powered notebooks. That isn't to say that it's not going to shorten the lifespan, but they seem to handle it better.

 

They'll do the calculations just fine, but Apple have somehow got it into their heads that cooling is a non issue and that silence is more important. If you do that sort of power hungry stuff on a mac then chances are it's running at 90 degrees or more inside. What you really don't want to do is do that sort of stuff with the screen shut, since they've taken the route of having the fan intake air through the gaps in the keyboard.

 

Which is the problem.
What you are really after, is not going to be a cheap laptop.

By the time you combine a good cpu, a good video card, and the cooling to handle it all, you have driven the price way up.

Some will argue, but most consumer notebooks under about $800, are pretty much all similar and in my opinion, most are junk. They are not going to like what you have planned, and yes, you may get an I-7 in there, but you really need to ask how many more corners were cut in order to allow for that. Same with a nice GPU. A nice GPU can run $200-300 on a desktop, it's not like it costs less in a laptop.

Look at this another way...
Gpu - $200
CPU (I7) - $300
Hard disk - $100
Rom - $100
Windows $100

That is $800, and you still have battery, screen, motherboard, memory... An I7 for $800? No thanks. A lot of corners have been cut to make that happen.

Quite true, Apple has switched focus. I often forget that.

 

Actually I would have stated it from a different perspective: many of today's laptops can out pace the majority of the best desktop from just a few years ago. At this rate, only those engaged in specialty computing would choose not to go mobile.

True, but I chose not to itemize all the details. So computing will always be best handled by our home bound behemoths.

 

But, it doesn't cost that much to manufacture, much less and the fabrication once done, when they start spitting them out.... it's cheaper.

I speculate that it's more expensive with the design and engineering (plus research) but to buy those parts new, yes, it might come out to something like that.

I think the cutting of corners is with all laptops but obviously, many more or more significant for consumer laptops since business contracts are big money companies don't want to risk squandering or jeopardizing.

 

On the contrary, when it comes to American businesses, it's part of the the culture. At least to the limit of what they can get away with.

And since computers are inherently unreliable, I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. Or haven't you been paying attention?

 

I'm comparing to a consumer line, though.

Yes, if they want to risk losing business from a corporate account who then switches to a different brand because the company skimped out on cooling fans or something.

I am sure it happens but I think when they are choosing between a consumer line and a business line, which one they are going to skimp on, I would have thought they'd sacrifice the consumer line. But, if I'm wrong, so be it.

Like I said, I think there's cost-cutting all over the place even with the companies like Dell, Lenovo etc. The solid machines just aren't around anymore so there is probably a risk with every machine.

I guess that's another pro for desktops and a very important contrast to be made which disputes that other poster's point. With desktops, most of the hardware is separate until assembled with the build. So, the cost-cutting is just for hardware related to the one part. Whereas, cost-cutting with laptop parts may impact the entire computer and you can't do much to change it.

 

Yes, I used retail prices, however, the rest of the components I didn't list easily make up for the price difference between what we see and what they pay, and they still have to make a profit. And yes then there is still the research and development. It's not a desktop where you slap the components in and ship it.

Laptops have far more parts that can go wrong, such as hinges, packaging, and more, plus it all has to work together. On a desktop, so long as the keyboard is USB, it's probably going to work, but also has probably been thoroughly tested already. There is videos on the net where Sony was testing the Z model by placing 200 pounds on the lid and bending the screen 90 degrees. Try that on a Macbook Air and watch it break in half.

Simply put, you won't convince me a desktop box is going to cost less than a laptop to make, not yet, not with equal components. The screen, video card and battery alone kill any chance of it.


There are lots of places companies can cut corners, but not all do. Solid capacitors are one spot they can skip. Cheaper screens, dvd-roms, hd's, less metal in the frame... That last one is a big one, to save $2 on material they skip the metal in favor of plastic, this is common on consumer vs corporate based laptops.


You might get an I7 "gaming system" for $800, but I wouldn't really trust it to last long or be much of a gaming system. There is a bunch of corners being cut on that. Even Asus, who I sort of consider the best "cheap" laptop can't make that price point. They get close, but it uses a 540M Nvidia card. While technically a "gaming" video card, it certainly won't impress anyone.

Yes, corporate systems have less cost cutting, but they aren't immune and you certainly aren't going to get a corporate level gaming system for $800.


A quick check of Newegg shows Asus offers one with a 540m for $950, but lets face it, no one will be that impressed with a 540m. It's pretty foolish to buy a gaming laptop and cripple yourself with baseline graphics at purchase. $200 more gets you a 460 and $250 more gets you a 555m. By the time you get to a 560m you are at $1400. A 560m is not the same as a 560 desktop in terms of power, so you are still technically around baseline for a desktop in terms of graphics.

For comparison, you can get a recertified Asus with an I7 and an AMD 5870 for $800. Your hopes of an $800 I7 gaming system are pretty slim if you want new as well.

Lenovo Thinkpad x41 and x43, both had defective cooling fans, the 43 even had a poor quality backlamp that went out early. Both are corporate systems, so yes, it certainly does happen.

I have a customer witha 43 that had both parts go out, the fan was almost impossible to find for a decent price due to demand, and the lamp... Let's just say I will probably mever replace another backlamp again after that ordeal.

 

Another thing to consider (frankly I'm surprised this has not been given attention) is the screen. A $150 22" 1080p monitor will blow pretty much every laptop screen to smithereens. And monitors dont become obsolete. And you stare at the monitor all the time, while yiou may only need higher cpu power once in a while.

I dont know what kind of monitor you have, but have you considered spending the money to instead upgrade it? Maybe get a 27" monitor? How awesome will movies look on the 27" monitor!!!!!
Maybe a 27" monitor with 2560 x 1440 resolution???
Thats 360% more pixels than your usual 1280x800 laptop screen.
360% more resolution, 360% more data that can be fit on the screen. It will take 3.6 laptops to fit the same data as one 2560 x 1440 monitor.
And the monitor colors and viewing angles will be better.


Regarding wifi issues for the T41, you can get a PCMCIA ethernet card, or perhaps put in a better wifi card inside the laptop. The thinkpads are user serviceable, and their hardware manuals are pretty good for instructions.

 

You're referring to a supplemental issue; that's not a proper comparison.

 

That doesn't make any sense. You are admitting that desktop performance is a few years ahead of laptop performance, yet say that is a reason in favor of going with laptops? My last desktop I built that my 1.7Ghz Athlon II netbook is faster than was probably from 2003. Maybe it is very close or even with an Athlon 64 desktop I built in December '04, but it is definitely weaker than my build of August '05. And these weren't exactly top of the line either.

Desktops are better in two metrics of performance. They can have a MUCH higher level of absolute performance, and they offer a lot more performance for the money.

 

That's because you're interpreting linearly. Conceptually I'm stating that the desktop advantage is now moot.

 

For common tasks I would agree, hardware has gotten fast enough that systems a few years old can handle most tasks without difficulty. All have enough memory, and processing power, the fact that we can use Atoms shows how far ahead the hardware has gotten. The problem is the OP isn't looking for a computer to run Word or Photoshop, they want a computer to do video conversion and gaming.

Notebook stuff has come a long way, but you need a pretty high end video card in your notebook to match what was common on desktops 2 years ago. Which is actually pretty amazing, they have definitely improved a lot, but you have to remember, the OP is trying to do this on a budget.

Budget, notebook, gaming... Pick two.
$800 is not going to replace a decent gaming machine that is 2 years old.


In 2011 the Nvidia 570m GTX manages 17k on 3dmark06.
In 2009 the Nvidia 260 GTX (desktop) managed 17k.
Frankly, that is pretty darn good, and yes, I know it's a benchmark, but it's the only metric we have, and that was one I could easily find that spanned the range of years.

Now remember that the 260 was not the best card Nvidia had at the time (the 290?), but it was good. On the other hand, would you consider a 260 decent today? For comparison, a desktop 570 GTX manages 22k and the Radeon 5970 manages 24k. Basically you are buying a new system with what equates to an decent two or 3 year old year old video card. I can't find a stat for the 590, but it should run around 38k, 17k sounds almost pathetic at that point.


Oh, and as for what Krane said, he does have an indirect point. Like it or not, a 2 hour gaming session on a 17in notebook is not nearly as comfortable or as nice as it is on a 24in monitor with a separate keyboard.

 

I'll repeat myself once more. I'm not looking for a "GAMING" laptop. I might play the odd game on it, probably open source games but rarely. Even more rare if I hold onto to my desktop. Once again, I think gaming on laptops don't make much sense but I understand it's very popular. It's just not the priority but it's a 'nice to have' feature if the laptop can do it.

I'd *like* a discrete or hybrid card since it's nice to have. If I can switch to the IGP intel HD 3000 card when I want to save battery life, that's gravy.

I acknowledge that 'consumer' laptops aren't made as well so I hope to AVOID the worst of the lot. I still think that Acer has some lines that are pretty bad. At least, when I go into big box stores like Staples, Walmart and FS, for e.g., it's always Acers that have keys missing. The latest visit to a Staples, the dvd burner drive was stuck open and wouldn't close. I tried to close it but it would just stick open.

These are the types of problems that I want to avoid and allows the desktops to still have an advantage as Leslie was pointing out. I AGREE with that part! The other poster is wrong, imho, in saying there's no reason to get a desktop now. Most of the time, desktops don't have these defects or easily deteriorate in hardware function. Unless, you are buying bare bones, you shouldn't have a problem unless the hardware has inherent defects. Such as some generations like socket 939 Asus boards, for e.g., which had notorious defects like capacitors prone to going bad.

But, nowadays, building your desktop means a system that will last many years. I think that's rare with even business laptops (today).