why laptops' DVD-RW are 3x slower than desktops equivalent

I have a 3 years old NEC DVD burner in a "5.25 USB enclosure. I want to know why this burnes is up to 3-4 times faster that my laptop's DVD burner when I burn DVD at the same speed (8x).

I tried different laptop burnes and different laptops and the result is always the same. For instance while backing up my files, it took to the laptop(s) burner 46 minutes and only 15 minutes for the USB NEC

Another example, I can burn 6 x 700MB files on a DVD at 8x using the NEC in about 8 minutes while it takes to the laptop burners about 20 minutes.

 

If it is actually burning at 8x the amount of time it takes should be fairly close. If you are setting it to burn at 8x, it will burn up to 8x, so it might be burning at 1-2x instead (sounds like it). This could be compatability with media problem.

 

If you use nero, there is an option to show 'actual' burn speed (in Misc options - show real recorder write speed).

 

Hi

The burning software is Nero
The medium is from Fortis Technoligy ans is writable at 8x
The max burning speed in the case of the laptop burners is 8x
The NEC speed is 16x but only 1x, 2x, 4x and 8x are availabe with Fortis blanc DVD.

I mean I'm really curious to know if this difference is normal or if there's a setting that I meed to fiddle with.

Did any one manage to burn a whole DVD with a laptop 8x burner in 8 minutes?

 

There is definitely something going wrong there.
I always burn a full dvd in about 8-9minutes (compaq 8710)

Have you checked if your dvd writer operates in a pio mode4 instead of an ultra-dma mode?

You should also trust better brands of media.
I prefer "That's" (taiyo yuden)

 

Ok I think we are getting somewhere.

I have the following listed in the devices manager:
Primary IDE channel ( that's for HDD I think)
Secondary IDE channel ( that's for DVD driver I think)
Standard dual channels PCI IDE controller ( what's this for?)

Both the primary and secondary channels are set to DMA if available.
What's the difference between DMA and PIO only?
What's the right setting?

 

I think in DMA, the drive by-passes the CPU and accesses the System Memory.

Whereas, in PIO the CPU is responsilble for the data transfer, and hence when you use the ODD, you'll see high CPU usage. (Something like that )

Primary - ATA disk (should be UDMA 4/5/6)
Secondary - ATAPI CDrom (should be UDMA 2)
The third one is the storage controller driver, for both the ATA devices you have installed in your notebook.

(You can check the 'Current modes enabled')

DMA is better.
PIO comes on due to hardware faults/bad read and writes.

 

Even though the media can be burned at 8x, sometimes there are compatibility issues between media and drives. To test, check the actual burn speed while burning. Then try different media if your burn speed is actually running at 2x (very likely). You can try to find an updated bios driver for the hardware.

 

It would be most helpful if you told us the exact model of your laptop and posted some screenshots of your controllers in the device manager.

Unless your laptop is fairly old, it has a sata HDD.
The parallel ata (pata) is used mostly for dvdrs nowadays in laptops.

Your pata controller can support 2 devices. One primary and one secondary. (That's the meaning for the "Standard dual channels PCI IDE controller")
Both of them share the same maximum theoretical bandwidth of your pata controller. Almost all pata controllers support ultra-ata133 nowadays

However, the devices should also support the same ata mode. Otherwise it will use less bandwidth.
If your dvd writer also supports Ultra DMA mode 6 (or Ultra-ATA133) it means a theoretically throughput of 133 Mb/s.

If it supports ultra mode 5 --> 100MB/s , ultra mode 4 -->66MB/s, ultra mode2 -->33MB/s.
PIO mode 4 is an older and much slower protocol, allowing burst rates of up to 16,7MB/s etc.
You can understand that in Pio modes, your dvd writer cannot reach its maximum speed. For some reasons, a lot of times dvdr writers revert back to pio mode4. That's why I have asked you to check it.

If your HDD is also pata and connected to the same controller as your dvd writer, it means that they both share the same max bandwidth of your pata controller.
However I still think your HDD is probably sata and thus connected to its own controller.

Could you post a screenshot of your primary ide channel?
You should be able to see there the ultra dma mode under which your dvd writer operates.
In my case its an ultra dma2 (meaning max 33MB/sec burst rate).


Have you tried other brands of dvd media other than these "Fortis" ??

 

Thanks guys

I just realised that both my HDD and Optical drive share the same channel (Primary channel)
My secondary channel is empty (not used)

My HDD is set to UDMA 5 and optical drive to UDMA 2, so it seems that my setting is fine.

my laptop is one year old and it uses IDE instead of sata.

This is usefull to know.

It seems that in my case and the case of tre laptops I'm referring to next that both HDD and optical drive share the same connection (i.e. the same cable if it was a desktop). Thought this doesn't explain the sloweness.

yes, Verbatim too and the speeds where the same (i.e. laptop slower than desktop and slower than the USB external enclosure).

I experimented over the past few years with all the following laptops:
Compaq nc6100
Gateway ML3108
Gateway MX3101 (my current laptop)
Dell precision m20
Fujitsu v2045
Acer TM290 after optical drive upgrade.

 

If they are both connected to the same controller that explains the slow speeds, since there is a bottleneck when both devices are accessed simultaneously (even if they support ultra dma)

I am sure the buffer of your recorder flactuates while you are recording.

There is nothing you can do in this case I am afraid. That's why the pata protocol has become almost extinct.

 

That's right
Is there a way to switch the optical drive to the Secondary channel?

 

in a desktop system it would be very easy to connect each pata device in a seperate controller alone (with a different data cable), as long as there are 2 pata channels.

In your laptop I am not so sure if that would be so easy, but I suppose yes you could (if there are 2 channels indeed).
You will have to open your laptop and check it out

 

If it was a desktop I would have used one cable (channel) for the HDD and the other one for one or more optical drive. I mean I always connect them in different channels.

I open this laptop several times (I did a CPU upgrade, a case upgrade, and an LCD replacement).

My question is if it's possible: how can I force the optical drive to use the secondary channel if both the optical drive and the HDD are connected directly to the mobo (i.e. without wires or FFC such is the case on a desktop)?

 

You can't, since the channels and sockets are fixed.
Bandwidth doesn't really affect performance, because none of the mechanical modules are actually that fast.

Because you have an ATA HDD and ODD, the HDD is master and the ODD is slave, so they use the same channel. If you flash the ODD to master, both won't be available, and the BIOS will not be able to initiate any of them.

 

I didn't know that the optical drive can be flashed to become a Master! I though it was like it's in a desktop. A drive is master or slave depending on where it is connected in the IDE cable. In my mind the cable has only been replaced by a wiring printed in the PCB, and hence I can't change the status of the ODD.

If the bendwitdh doesn't matter could someone explain why I experienced a drastic difference in burning time between the different laptops I tested and my NEC desktop ODD?

 

You can download a bootcode flasher specifically for your drive to switch between master and slave.

Which ODD have you got ?

I flashed my drive to slave when I had an IDE HDD, and to master when I got the SATA HDD.

If you have Nero, you can benchmark the drive.

 

I'm not familiar with sata drives. Why did you have to switch to Master when your ODD is used with a sata HDD? is it because in the same laptop a sata HDD always uses the Primary channel while the ODD uses the Secondary one? I mean you could have use your ODD as slave with your sata HDD, or is there a technica issue that forced you to use your ODD in Master configuration.

How did you switch from Master to Slave? (if via firmware, please discribe the different steps)

my current ODD is GWA-4082N CG03

 

I don't know about LG ODDs. I've got an ND-6650A and there are loads of goodies for it on this site http://liggydee.cdfreaks.com/page/en/NEC-ND-6650A/.

When my SATA HDD was in AHCI mode, the ODD showed up in the first ATA channel (when it was master), but did not show up anywhere when it was slave.
A slave ATA without a master ATA will show up in windows, but not in the BIOS. A slave ATA basically needs a master ATA. Since there was no master IDE drive, I had to flash the ODD to master to show up.

With a SATA HDD, it doesn't really matter whether the ODD is in master/slave. When my HDD went into IDE Legacy Mode, the HDD showed up in the first ATA channel, and the ODD in the 2nd ATA channel.

If I flash the ODD to slave, it will show up in the first ATA channel, alongwith the HDD.

 

Thanks Andy for the PM

 

I found this link and I have a question:
http://tdb.rpc1.org/

Amongst all the firmware listed for the LG GWA-4082N, the newest one is from a NEC ODD: PD01 GMA/T10N (NEC) Windows 4-Oct-2006,
1- should I use it if it's newer than mine?
2- can the same firmware be uses in ODDs from different manufacturer?