*HP EliteBook 8740w Owners Lounge - PART 1*

The new system is currently keyboardless, so I'll check the BIOS tonight. The fan does ramp up to high about 30s before crash just as my old system does.

My plan for tonight:
1) finish keyboard swap
2) check BIOS on new system
3) start installing stuff on new system noting how many times it crashes
4) eventually uninstall RAM in dimms 3 and 4 and observe crashing
5) install RAM into old system in dimms 3 and 4 and observe crashing

other ideas you want em to try?

gotta go now

 

@ Knight427,

Good luck! Keep in mind, usually you have to follow a specific order of driver installation. For example: OS install, updates, video driver, chipset driver, rest of the drivers. You can install the chipset driver before the video driver.

 

FYI -- I just logged a case with HP Business Notebook support and have pointed them to our discussions on this forum as well as the HP Support Forum. Hopefully this will help us get some more attention on the problem.

 

Thank you Kartik. You are right, we lack some attention from HP. Dell reps are constantly present on these boards and there's always someone to turn to in case of a problem.
I wish we had the same regarding HP products.

 

@Kartik: it doesn't show fan speeds? That is weird, did you make sure that you customize the report so that fan speeds are recorded as well?

@Knight427: I am so jealous of you with your 8740w s. I'd settle for just one!

Now about the whole turbo mode business. The reason that I mentioned it as a prime suspect, is not so much about the temperature, but rather the "feature" that it has which dynamically turn off cores, and more importantly turn off the memory subsystem.

Given that there were issues with system memory for the 8740w, which is fixed now, I am bit nervous of having to also worry about the state of the memory subsystem.

To make matter worse (possibly) we are dealing with batteries, which all have their own characteristics when it comes to how fast and how stably can they supply a voltage level at the amperage needed.

Have you tried running the system with battery removed but connected to the power outlet?

 

Did anyone call HP regarding DC2 availability since the status in the orders are changing?

Shakil

 

We have at least two people here with new 8740ws that *don't* have these issues, right?

If everyone is having problems I might just give up on this and settle for the Dell, especially given my now-indeterminate ship date.

I found a different way to check my order status, and it seems to be indicating that everything is *in* stock on the line-item breakdown, so I'm really confused now. And one thing has request dates of 06/14, while the other has 07/04 and that 07/16 ship date . . . . SO CONFUSED.

 

I've got my beloved keyboard installed on the new machine. Looks like the BIOS version is the same.

BIOS Version/Date Hewlett-Packard 68CAD Ver. F.03, 4/28/2010

One thing I did not realize was that DIMMs 1 & 4 are under the keyboard, 2 & 3 are on the bottom. I suppose I'll have to downgrade to match my old system which currently has sticks in 1 and 2 (1 is under the keyboard, 2 is on the bottom). But does it make a difference? If I am only running 2 sticks, can I put them both on the bottom (2 and 3)? The backlit keyboard will be more of pain to deal with since the power ribbon needs to be disconnected to get to the RAM (the other 2 ribbons can stay put).

Time for driver updates, I'll follow your suggested order Aikimox.

 

waiting for your feedback, Knight.

 

8:58pm - crash while installing Win7 Updates

been running ok since, HP Support Assistant indicates I already have current video and chipset drivers by not including those in the list of required updates...how do I confirm my driver versions manually? (sorry so stupid here)

 

Same here! I was contacted by another person within HP because I was sent a survey about my order experience and basically gave it a big fat 'F'. This guy was a "Customer Champion" or something like that. This guy confirmed the reason for the delay as the DC monitor (as we all know) and told me that it is currently shown in their system to be shipping by the end of the month. I wrote back and told him that had better be the case or I'd be moving on. So we'll see. I used to check my order status every day. Now I'm just sorta waiting for the shipment e-mail. It's sorta depressing...

 

Goto device manager. Easiest way to get there is to hit start and type in "device manager". Double click the device in question and click the driver tab.

 

A note of warning: every single part of my order has stock code "H" and nothing is listed as backordered, yet I am currently in the limbo of "temporary material shortage" and on indefinite delay.

 

Lol, you know what's sucky? It's supposed to be arriving here @ home the day after I'm supposed to leave here for a week... I guess I'll wait the day to the 1st, but that better not turn into the 2nd! face'll have to turn to

 

Looks like I'll be getting my system Friday.

I opted for the freedos config and I wonder if it'll make any difference in regards to the crashing problems since I am doing a completely clean installation of Windows 7 using my own license.

 

But if you'd been sitting watching you order sit in back-order for a month and a half you couldn't help but get excited seeing some motion. When did you order? Mine was 4/20.

 

OK, video driver is up-to-date. Is "chipset": Computer>ACPI x64-based PC? If so, that's up-to-date as well.

Things are going well so far. It seems to have acted like my old system after reinstalling the OS. It crashed a lot while getting things going, but has settled down.

Oops, i just tested Sleep Mode and the fan kicked in when I woke it up. Temps are mid 40s and declining. So one update or another must be to blame. What a mess.

 

Yeah,... not to good indeed.
There will be more fixes coming from HP till the issue is resolved. Unfortunate. Dunno what to say, Knight.
The fan+sleep issue is the least bothersome - as was mentioned, many systems are plagued with this problem.

But the crashes are the real pain. I really hope that Service Pack 1 will make things better.
In fact what you can do is download the SP1 beta from a torrent and try it. You got nothing to lose, really.

 

still working on stuff...will post a detailed log soon

 

8:58pm - CRASH while installing Win7 Updates (browsing web on Firefox too)

10:21 - CRASH after 3 Sleep/Wake Cycles (running GPU-Z, HWmonitor, Firefox..temps mid 50s)

10:24 -system hangs on startup at "Starting Windows"
-Off/On - Chose Startup Repair - chose not to revert to earlier state, system check finishes at 10:43 finding nothing

10:45 - successful startup
-checked System Logs - find 3 errors at startup, same as on last system, leave them alone for now

10:50 - CRASH after 3 Sleep/Wake Cycles (running nothing)

10:51 - system hangs on startup at "Starting Windows"
-Off/On, skip repair option, Start Normally successfully

11:10 - CRASH after 2 Sleep/Wake
-tried starting in safe mode, system hung there too, off/on good to go

11:20 - disabled the 3 errors in System Logs as shown by Traxus
- tested Sleep/Wake, crash after only 1
-this time system started up normally (no hang then 2nd restart required)

11:30 - Sleep/Wake CRASH after 3
-systen started normally, but went into CRASH mode as soon as Desktop appeared
-next startup was fine

11:37 - shutdown, remove RAM from DIMMs 3 and 4

11:53 - Sleep/Wake goes 4 before crashing
-------------Change to Old System--------------
12:00 - Move RAM to old system, intall in DIMMs 3 and 4

system is very unstable, worst I've seen yet, go into Safe Mode, System Log is Full of errors...I did check system settings after installing RAM, it recognized all 8 GB...RAM in old system was Samsung, new system had some big (M) logo on it...going to uninstall RAM now

Observations:
(1)Getting rid of the 3 errors in startup (System Logs) did nothing to help sleep/wake/crash, but it might have helped recovering from a crash y getting me going in one start...questionable though.

(2) Removing RAM from DIMMs 3 and 4 did not solve sleep/wake/crash, but it might have made the system a little more stable, haven't had time to do more sleep/wake/crash tests.

(3) Installing RAM in old system went bad. I'll update after uninstalling RAM.

EDIT: I couldn't resist giving the old system one more boot, I started up just fine. Looking back at the earlier erros, they all end with "A device attached to the system is not functioning". I wonder if it just needed a clean shutdown. More sleep/wake to come.
---still on old system----
12:44 - After clean start, Sleep/Wake - fan on med (as "normal")...Sleep takes longer to finish, then Waking actually reboots...system crashes 2 mins after hitting desktop...seems like the second sleep really messes things up.

1:33 - my old system is only recognizing 2 of 4GB RAM. Tried re-seating them both. Can't take any more....going to bed.

 

Yup. One 8740w doing fine here (except for the "fan on medium on wake-up" problem, but I don't mind).

So far, the only explanation I see for the difference between working and crashing units is Core i5 vs Core i7.

 

I can't seem to find a way to do that. In the "sensor" section, it only shows temperatures -- I've looked through all of the sections that can be added to a report, and I don't see any fans listed.

I just tried that now and it crashed soon after rebooting.

 

Indeed, I can't seem to find a fan speed logging software for the 8740w. I tried Everest, HW Monitor, Speedfan, ... with no result.

 

Yep, 720QM seems to be the problem.

 

Nope, Tyraxus got an i7 and no crashes so far.

 

Ahh, this is a very interesting observation...the idea that an update might be the culprit here. Let me follow this further. In an earlier message, you said:

Can you confirm that when you initially installed Windows 7, you did not experience any crashes (admittedly the system was in that state for a very short time)? When exactly did you experience the first crash? Was it after you installed Windows updates, or HP updates? I think in my case I didn't experience the first crash until after I had installed at least one or more Windows updates -- but again, that too was a short period of time.

The data point that you did not initially experience the fan spinning up after a resume from sleep is also intriguing. This also suggests that an update could be at fault.

I wonder whether Windows 7 running in a virtual machine (like VirtualBox or Windows Virtual PC) could trigger the crash. If so, it would be possible (albeit time consuming!) to load up an initial install, and save snapshots of the disk image after each set of updates are applied. The VM could be experimented with in these different snapshot states to see which state started to trigger the crash issue.

If the crash isn't reproducible from within a VM, I suppose another way would be to install Windows from scratch on one disk partition, then immediately snapshot that onto several other partitions. Each partition could then be updated with progressively more updates, and as with the VMs, each partition could be experimented with to see where the crash issue started to show up.

If the Windows option to checkpoint the system after each update is reliable, then that might be another way to experiment with the system in various states of update-application. I'm somewhat skeptical of the Windows checkpoint though, in capturing the exact system state. If it's not reliable, this could just be a huge time waster.

I'll think about this some more, and might give one of these approaches a shot.

 

Wish I had my system already and could join you guys.
I think, what you suggested might be a good way of looking for the culprit. I'd do the minimal install (not from HP recovery partition, but from a W7 DVD) and if no crashes happen - create the initial image. Then (disregarding the HP assistant) manually installing updates (as you suggested) and probably giving a try to the SP1 beta in the process.

 

Doh! That is what I am afraid of, these unit my not have fan speed sensors. At least not ones that would report values to 3rd party software.

 

Knight427, what is your current memory configuration?

The memory layout is VERY important - they must be installed in matched pairs and in specific locations. From the factory, with 2 chips, you'll should have chips in I believe slot 1 (under the keyboard) and slot 2 (bottom of the laptop). If you were to add ANY ram to the machine you need to then place it in slot 3 (under keyboard) & 4 (bottom) in a MATCHED PAIR.

I'm hoping that you've somehow managed to improperly arrange the RAM and this is what is causing your problems.

I'm currently looking at the documentation for more specific information. I'll post again in a few.

 

You guys are nuts, I've already wasted so much time on this. My work is falling behind.

Anyway, my old system is still only seeing 2 GB of the 4 installed. I've re-seated them several times in DIMMs 1 and 2, I guess it's time to try different dimms. Can anyone tell me if it matter which DIMMs are used? Do you have fill them in order 1, 2, 3, 4? Also, the old system can once again Sleep/Wake as many times as I want without inducing a crash (of course the fan-on problem is still there).

On my new system, I'm running 4 GB on dimms 1 and 2 and it still can induce crash from Sleep/Wake and I also got a crash checking this forum this morning (been away from the computer most of today so far).

My priority now is too see if I can my old machine back up to 4 GB...maybe I ruined one of sticks.

 

1 and 4 are under the keyboard, 2 and 3 are on the bottom.

OK, then I guess I'm not sure how to test for a bad ram stick, but I must conclude that RAM in DIMM 1 is working, so should I pull out both RAM sticks and install the xtra matched pair from my new system?

EDIT:
Old System
2 GB in DIMM 1
2 GB in DIMM 2 (matched)
system sees only 2 GB

New System
2 GB in DIMM 1
2 GB in DIMM 2 (matched)
system sees 4 GB

bookshelf
matched pair of 2GB sticks uninstalled from new system

EDIT2: noon here, going to have short lunch, anyone willing to chat on Skype to help me get 4GB on my old system? dknight427 is my skype name...I'll log in by 1:00, probably before that

 

I hear ya! For what it's worth -- if it weren't for your diligent work and reporting, I might have thrown in the towel already. It's really disappointing that we're seeing these problems on HP's flagship notebook.

 

That's what I'm going to do when I get my system tomorrow. My machine will come bare with only FreeDOS installed.

 

Old System:
removed RAM2 from D2
system showed 2 GB, confirming RAM1 in D1 is ok
removed RAM1 from D1 and installed RAM2 in D1
system showed 2 GB conforming RAM2 is ok
installed RAM1 in D2 and system reports 4 GB...back to normal now

That's odd. I re-seated RAM2 in D2 at least 4 times, But whatever, at least now I can call HP and not feel like broke something on my old system (which they want to study).

EDIT: back on my New System running RAM in D1 and D2, the system seems more stable from Sleep/Wake crashes, but now it seems more likely to go to sleep improperly, causing a restart when you try to wake it...the "bad sleep" is indicated by the lights on the touch control buttons not turning off for nearly a minute...last test I was on my 5th Sleep mode when this happened...when I ran RAM in D1-4, I never got past 3 Sleep/Wake cycles before a crash

 

Old System - 720qm, M7820, 4GB
3DMark06 - 12,373
SM 2.0: 5,111
SM 3.0: 6,020
CPU: 3,040
res: 1280x1024

PCMark05: 7,683
wPrime 32M: 17.47 s
wPrime 1024M: 550.63 s

Cinebench 11.5 64-bit
OpenGL: 24.32 fps
CPU: 2.79 pts
CPU (single core): 0.87 pts
CPU MP Ratio: 3.19x

New System - 820qm, M7820, 4GB
3DMark06 - 13,063 (+5.6%)
SM 2.0: 5,364 (+5.0%)
SM 3.0: 6,338 (+5.3%)
CPU: 3,253 (+7.0%)
res: 1280x1024

PCMark05: 8,291 (+7.9%)
wPrime 32M: 16.46 s (5.8% faster)
wPrime 1024M: 517.46 s (6.0% faster)

Cinebench 11.5 64-bit
OpenGL: 26.46 fps (+8.9%)
CPU: 2.98 pts (+6.8%)
CPU (single core): 0.99 pts (+13.8%)
CPU MP Ratio: 3.03 ( -5.0%)

FYI: comparing 820 to 720
820 base freq is +8.1%
820 turbo freq is +9.3%

 

memtest86+, also available on SysRescCD (which is the most useful recovery / partitioning utility boot CD evar). It will actually test the RAM for subtle arrors (and form an effective hardware stress test for the RAM and related cooling) - you can run it overnight with all the RAM in and see if it turns anything up. [Although your test re: just getting the damn things recognized answered your more immediate question.] Some folks routinely do this with new machines as a burn-in tool anyway.

Oh, I haven't any right to complain given how long most here have waited, I ordered mine last week. It's irritating that they waited until ship date to inform me of the shortage though . . . the main purpose of the post was to warn that the availability codes seem to mean nothing, so don't get your hopes TOO up.

 

FYI -- I get this exact same "bad sleep" problem occasionally as well, with the same symptoms (e.g. lights) you report. I have 16GB RAM and haven't made any RAM changes.

 

No prob. I didn't mean for my resp to be taken as argumentative just explanatory. Thanx for the warning. Hopefully your delay is being incurred for no other reason than because they have to use the parts for us earlier orderers and not because of a much wider reaching delay of no chassis or some other crazy shortage.

 

That would be just, fair, and hopefully short!

No offense taken and you didn't sound irritated in any case, just clarifying. Internet communication fail, I should use more smilies or something

 

It would appear I am back in the game.


My MSI has a blue line going down the middle of the screen, Newegg is out of them, so their option of replace is now refund.

I hadn't sold the dock or RAM for the 8740W...so I guess I need to look back at this.


When it comes back on Monday (fingers crossed), I plan on calling to get the same price they gave me 2 months ago....which was 24%. Can someone PM me the rep that gave 28%?

Or should I be looking elsewhere with all these fan and RAM issues? This is the 4th time since January that I've been kicked in the junk by a bad notebook*...I really don't want the 5th laptop I purchase this year to be yet another hotbed of issues.



*My X201 was sent in unsuccessfully for repair on the right speaker, a driver fixed it 2 weeks later. Otherwise, it's been perfect.

 

Yes, it is but....
Shouldn't it be even slots first and then odd slots for for the second pair?
For example, fill 1-3 slots first then 2-4. OR 2-4 first followed by 1-3.
On my core i7 motherboard the first set has to go in 2-4-6 slots, followed by 1-3-5. NOT 1-2-3 OR 4-5-6.
Of course my example is for a desktop motherboard, but I figured I should point it out. Not sure how HP configured it for the the 8740w.

 

The problem is that I don't have the laptop in front of me so I can't verify - I am just going from memory. I know for certain, regardless of the slot numbers, memory should be installed in a pair with one under the keyboard and the other under the laptop itself.

I'll check in a little while when I get home for specifics.

 

I can tell you for certain that RAM in 1 (under keyboard) and 2 (bottom) works. Both my machines are running this way and using all 4 GB.

 

Alright, here is my RAM setup:

From the factory I've got a 2 GB chip in slot 1 (under the keyboard, top slot) and another 2 GB chip in slot 2 (under the laptop, slot close power connection).

I installed a matched set of 2 more 2 GB chips in the other locations - slot 4 (under the keyboard, bottom slot) and slot 3 (bottom of laptop, slot closest to DVD drive).

Knight427, it appears you have a couple of options:
1. Run 1 chip ONLY (slot 1)
or 2. Take the original 2 GB chip out of your old laptop and install it in slot 2 (under the keyboard next to the power connector) and run that with the original chip in slot 1.

I would probably default to option 1 for a while and see if you have a crash. If not, try option 2 and see what happens.

I looked in the service and user manual for some specifics and didn't find any about the matched pairs. Perhaps I'm just substituting my server knowledge here.

 

I created a new partition and installed Windows 7 into this partition from the Operating System DVD that I ordered with the system. I then installed all of the drivers from the Application and Driver Recovery DVD. At no time did I connect to the network -- the idea was to see how a totally standalone install with as basic of an HP setup as possible would go.

I did not get any crashes during this process. However, the fan did turn on (mid-level) after I resumed from a sleep. Multiple sleep+resumes did not crash the system.

I was not able to put the system to sleep until after I installed the drivers from the Application and Driver Recovery DVD. So I wasn't able to reproduce the state where the system resumes from sleep without the fan turning on. Somewhat of a bummer. I was hoping to catch a pristine state where the system completely worked, and then be able to add updates individually to track down where things first start going wrong.

 

Sent you a PM.

 

@ NotebookGrail,
I was hoping that your reappearance here would mean only one thing - DC2.
Any news from Greg?

 

Yeah, and I thought I could prove/disprove the 4 RAM thing by testing 2 systems...that didn't work out so well for me either.

 

The good thing is that the system didn't crash during the installation.
Again, screw the sleep mode, guys! Right now, that's the least troublesome point. We should focus on the crashes.
If you could run your system with power saving modes disabled and see if you can reproduce the crashes during your normal activities, - would be great!

 

Just shot a mail to Greg to see if he has any info. Will keep posted.