*HP EliteBook 8740w Owners Lounge - PART 2*

Why is the SSD's performing so bad in 4k read/write. The reason is poor CPU power management in the QM57 chipset. What is HP's answer to the problem.?

 

Added the question. But can you prove the "poor CPU power management" statement?

 

Sorry

For some reason I happened to notice it immediately. My right hand kept feeling uncomfortable with how that side was constantly hitting against the table and then going back up. I put a couple of business cards under the upper left corner as an interim workaround, looking forward to a better one.

 

Read this, this and this

Its a fact from those thread discussions that Intel 5 series boards have too much aggressive power management. It is fine for regular HDD's , but kills the SSD performance.

Credit goes to this post by tilleroftheearth for finding it.

 

@Aikimox: You've forgotten my question

 

Doubtful. Sandy Bridge will most likely only belong to the 8750w and 8550p/w.

 

So do you think they are going to ditch the 8740w early? In January our CPUs will obsolete with no options for potential owners to get the latest and greatest. It doesn't effect me, but why would anyone pay $2,000-$4,000 (in early 2011) on a laptop with last-generation CPUs?

 

Hello,

I just got an 8740w: DC display, 250GB SSD, 840QM, 16GB, FX3800M, factory-installed Windows 7, and backlit keyboard. To date, I have not had an HP notebook that is so buggy!!

I updated the BIOS to F.08. I am using HP Protect Tools, pre-boot authentication/biometrics.

1) The Dream Color seems to conflict with HP's display management. Sometimes the ambient light sensor would stop working, sometimes the Dream Color would change to a VERY warm color temperature on its own, forcing me to run the DC control and "reset to default".

2) Intermittently, the notebook would not come out of suspend/sleep. After power up, the computer would just shut off.

3) Intermittently, the BIOS startup does not display properly (with HP logo going to lower right. It's larger and displayed in seemingly 8-bit color.

Any help for these issues?

Two other questions: I noticed that HP is now showing "NVIDIA Quadro 5000M graphics with 2 GB dedicated GDDR5 video memory" as an option. Is this an upgradable item? Same with a faster CPU--can the notebook take the next step faster processor (can't remember the designation at the moment).

Thanks for any info.

 

Totally agree. There's no way we can have a full platform refresh for 8740w (it would require a new mobo). It's pointless for them and for us. Even if they would decide on something like that, we'd still have to pay more money for the upgrade (total upgrade) than buying a new system.

On the other hand, the new CPU's aren't going to offer a huge performance boost. 10-15% is what it looks like. Not worth the effort, IMHO. 20% more battery life? Nah, not interested. I'd only like to add SATA III...
I'd probably switch at 22nm, skipping Sandy Bridge.
Besides, I don't see how this machine will become obsolete in a year.

 

@snovvman - not sure if you'll accept this, but my answer to your observation is to disable ambient light sensor, both in the HP software/profile and the Bios.

In any case even after doing that, switching brightness automatically even by un-plugging and going on battery can/will switch the 'tone' of the gamut if you right-click on the desktop and click the gamut/profile pop-up menu item, and requires the reset to default trick. DC2's implementation on this machine definitely likes a 'static & consistent' operating configuration.

BTW, have you been reading this and the prior thread for a few months? I ask, because you're likely to encounter black screens on boot [after the HD activity diminished, hit Tab 3 times then Enter to shut-down cleanly], or a horribly out-of-sync display during this 'burn-in' period. However I just had it [the latter] happen to me again after a OS software update and re-boot, but it has been happening less frequently. So the idea one of the thread participants (I forget who) put forth that it apears this machine suffers bugginess on boot during some initial burn-in period still seems sound. Still tho, I have most of my problems on re-boot, and less so on clean shut-down and boot, and don't remember having a problem coming out of Hibernate.

Welcome to the "owner's club".

 

I don't see why they cannot design a new motherboard, since they're installing 2 different mobos, one for quad cores and another for dual cores in the same chassis. Yes, it will be expensive, there is no doubt about it, but I think at least they should offer that chance. Keep in mind that it's likely SB will appear on January in new notebooks and the 8740w was launched on April. If HP doesn't make this possible, they will have a near obsolete 8740w in less than 1 year. The 8740w should have at least a 2-year life cycle, like the old 8730w, if not and if they would release a new 8750w within that period, HP would be just a 'bad joke'.

Then, why don't you add my question to the list?

 

Hi HiddenUser. I'm also from Spain and I'm considering the possibility of getting a 8740w with a configuration very similar to yours. Can you tell me which reseller have you placed your order or a link to the page with the list of resellers that can do CTOs. Thanks.

 

Thank you for your response sir. I realized that the F.08 BIOS update contained a video firmware update. To apply it, one must use the USB method. Updating in Windows does not update the video firmware. After the update, the startup now _seems_ to be more reliable. More time and testing will be needed.

On the ambient sensor, I noticed that it never works coming out of hibernation, but the functionality is restored after a sleep/restart cycle. I agree that the DC implementation is not done well and leaves a lot to be desired. Too bad...

I have been trying to read this and the older thread. With so much discussion, it was frankly difficult to wade through some of the information.

I'm still testing the machine, trying to decide if I can live with all the quirks. The black/blank screen start is a big problem. Thanks for the clean shutdown procedure, but I don't like the idea of potentially losing my browser sessions. I have a Thinkpad W700 with the dual-screen, it has been so realiable. I'm also using a nw9440 and have never had these buggy issues. I do hope HP comes out with some solid resolutions.

I am now reading about SSDs and "Intel Series 5". Does the 8740w have this "Series 5" chip and require tweaking?

Cheers.

 

Added your question.

But you'll probably get the same answer from HP. Even if they offer such an upgrade - you'll pay more for it than for a new model. Does it make any sense?
There's a slim chance of a replacement though.
If you still have the warranty, when the system is discontinued, and something happens to your machine, - HP might offer a new model as a replacement. (As does Dell). That's the only way, IMHO.
But it might be still more convenient to sell your current machine and buy a new one

 

840QM, 16GB, FX3800, SSD.

Using HP Power Assistant, on battery, computer idle, what is your computer's typical drain rate?

Mine hovers between 31/33 to 46/52 Watts. At this rate, the computer's battery drains 30-40% just sitting idle for an hour. Almost all of the use is from the display (set to medium brightness).

Is this on par for the 8740w?

 

^^ Yes, the battery only lasts about 2hrs on min brightness.

Also, regarding the issues posted earlier. After updating the BIOS and video drivers, I'd do a power drain (removes extra static charge from internal components), - turn the system off, unplug the power cord, remove the battery, press&hold the power button for half a minute.

 

Here you GO.

I went with Abast Grup, but keep in mind this machine with a config. similar to mine it's very EXPENSIVE. It costed me 4041€, taxes and shipping included.

 

Just when I thought I'd narrowed my search for a new laptop to the 8740w, I came across this thread (and it's predecessor). Now I'm not as sure, and would appreciate any feedback offered to help clarify some things.

1) It sounds as though a mobo fix of some kind may have solved the issue of spontaneous power-off shutdowns for some folks. Am I understanding this correctly? Has anyone seen evidence that the "fix" is indeed applied to new units that are currently being produced?

2) I'm a photographer. I mostly do product work for catalogs and sales materials, and for this type of shooting my camera is always tethered to a laptop for image review and processing. About a third of the time I'm shooting on-site, with the client. One of the main reasons I have considered the 8740w is for the DC2 screen, which should be a great benefit in these situations for color accuracy and simultaneous viewing by multiple people. In your opinion, is this workstation reliable enough to use for this purpose? I've worked with technology enough over the years to know that there's no perfect system. But repeated crashes in front of the client is a deal-killer, in more ways than one.

3) I'm a heavy user of PhotoShop (currently CS3). I'd likely be using this notebook as my primary editing system much of the time (with an external display attached). I've been reading some confusing things about the true impact of CUDA for still image editing, and even about the use of off-board GCs for 2D graphics in general. Most of you seem to have configured your systems with the ATI card -- do any of you feel that an Nvidia card is truly warranted for PhotoShop work? Much of the info I've found so far appears to be heavily influenced by marketing efforts on the part of Nvidia, and I'm a bit skeptical at the true performance gains their products would give me for photo processing.

Any advice/thoughts/opinions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

All new units have been free of the crashing problem since DC2 started shipping (maybe even before that). We have many user experiences here to confirm this. The tech I've been working with at HP made statements that indicated this is true as well.

 

@ProdTog,

Welcome to the forum!
I'll let others answer the Nvidia vs ATI question (though personally I don't see any reason to go for the Greens, unless you absolutely need CUDA), but stability wise, -
You should be safe from the crashes as long as you do not buy from a reseller that might have an old stock (before the fix was applied). Basically, all DC2 equipped systems should be free from those problems. With the latest drivers and BIOS updates, I'd say the system is 99% stable. I had a couple of "boot to a blank screen" occasions, but they were resolved by a power drain.
I still think that most of the power related issues are caused by extra statics and Power Drain is the only remedy.

 

@ Aikimox AND Knight
When you guys get a chance, could you please take a screen cap of CPU-Z "mainboard" tab or HWinfo32 motherboard info section. Also take a pic of the white tag label on your motherboard. The one that shows the motherboard version, BIOS, date code, revision, etc.

I took a pic of my original motherboard tag (under RAM module, bottom one) to compare it with the new one. However, the new board did not have a tag at all so I could not make a direct comparison.

I'm guessing Aikimox has one of the newer versions, similar to the one I have now, while Knight has one of the originals.

 

Here's mine.

 

Thanks.
Indeed, we have the same board. I wish CPU-Z would also show the Revision. I've only seen that piece of info on the white label that is attached to the board.
For example, my original board had Rev.: 5.10 and Date Code: 951065.
The new board does not have the white label, so I can't make a direct comparison.

Aikimox, let me know if you find the white label. Our new boards must be higher than 5.10.

Knight's board must be different since he still has the original board. Not necessarily the same as the one I had originally.

 

Thanks for the update. I've been reading so many pages of postings in the last few days that it's all starting to run together :confused2:

Having to boot a second time on an infrequent basis isn't that big a deal to me, especially since it sounds like these units are speedy enough to boot much faster than what I'm used to at present. And it's pretty rare that I've got any client representatives around while I'm setting up -- funny how they never enter the area until I'm actually done with the "heavy lifting".

It looks like the only source I've seen so far for 8740's with DC2 screens is directly from HP, so I don't imagine I'd run into old stock unless they really had a mixup in production.

Thanks for the insights. I still look forward to hearing if anyone thinks an Nvidia card is worthwhile for non-3d PhotoShop work. And if anyone cares to PM me with a good sales rep experience, that would be nice as well!

 

Here's mine:

 

PM isn't enabled for you yet, so I sent you an email. Let me know if you didn't get it.

 

So that's from your original board?
I thought it would be different from the newer versions but it has the same info as the new boards.


How about the Revision on the white label?

 

Well, it was discovered that the current ATI driver HP is distributing doesn't have very much if any acceleration of 2D @ this time, so it's fully up to the CPU to render the screen (which is at least quite up to the task). I think the NVidia options far exceed the performance of the ATI in 2D at this time. (I'm an ATI-equipped owner)

 

I'm teaching at the moment, I'll get to it tonight.

 

What's the deal with backpacks that work with the 8740w? After the review of the Bihn Bag, I think I may just want to buy something that works without any mangling. Does anybody have the Booq?

 

"far exceed the performance"... so, it sounds like you would recommend one of the Quadro cards in my case. I spend quite a bit of time with PS zoomed in at 100%+ doing all kinds of manipulations, using lots of layers, blending changes, healing brush, etc., so improvements in responsiveness for these types of activities has definite value for me.

It appears that there's a (pre-discount) premium of US$425 for the lowest-level Quadro, and that about doubles for the next step up, then it gets insane ($1850) for the highest level. I can't imagine the value is truly there for the 5000M over the other cards, though. Unless someone is doing lots of video work perhaps. But then why would they use a laptop?

Lots to think about.

 

I can tell you that the ATI is pretty pathetic at AutoCAD LT, which is all 2D. The only caveat is that this card is capable of WAY more, they just haven't got the drivers done. However, it's been months and there is still no word. I asked my tech about the status of 2D drivers on the ATI card, he just ignored the question. So I can't promise the drivers will get better soon.

 

I'm using AW Orion backpack for 8740w on a daily basis and am very happy about it.

The drivers will certainly improve. You can mod the Catalyst 10.8 to work for the FirePro, but the gaming performance might suffer.
I don't see how the +1800USD for the 5000M (not to mention that FX5000M doesn't work with DC2) or even 450$ for the older 2800M can be justified. Shame on Nvidia.

Which reminds me to add the driver related question to the list....

 

I never would have considered (and still don't) detaching two velcro'ed flaps from one another as 'mangling'.

 

I use the Swiss Gear Pegasus. Not the most stylish, but it is functional, durable, and fits the 8740w well.

I picked mine up at a local Staples (office supply store) and it differs slightly from most of the photos I've seen online. It's gray instead of blue, doesn't have the cross chest strap, and the shoulder strips look a little cleaner.

 

Rampage, here's the mobo sticker you wanted to see.

 

Thanks.
Interesting, so despite having the same motherboard, yours has been very problematic, while mine was quite stable. With the exception of a few hiccups.
Well, yours has a big 0 at the end of the S/N while mine has a U, and I don't think that last digit is part of S/N.
The S/N, CT and MAC obviously have to be different on all MB's.
So I guess the only difference is the 0 vs U.

If Aikimox's MB turns out to have the same exact label info. then there is really no way of differentiating between the old and new MB.

You'd think that, if in fact they've made some hardware changes, they would have changed at least the Rev.#, to make a distinction.

Are we really getting new MBs?
Or was it simply a bad batch of the same MB's that they're now trying to sort out?

We may never know..... :laugh:

 

I'll check me bilge rat numbers later, downloading buncha new games, Yo ho ho

 

Modding the install is a decent consideration, but I'd rather just use a supported configuration than to have to keep running installs with hacked config files every time other updates are applied that might affect the video drivers for the ATI card. I plan to keep my next laptop for a while, and don't want to make it any harder than necessary to keep it going.

I agree that the pricing of the graphics cards is absurd, but they're simply taking advantage of the market's acceptance of anything laptop-related coming at a premium (IMHO). At least for the lower-level cards. That 5000M is a different story, though. No explanation I can think of for that one.

 

5000M based on 480M and as a Quadro card costs more. 480M alone is 940$ - 3xM5870. And all that for a tiny bit of performance increase.
I don't think you need to worry much about the drivers. We'll let HP know of the 2D problem and they'll fix it, of that I'm sure.
Or else, me be sending em junkies straight to Davy Jone's Locker!

 

Can someone please explain how HP (who doesnt seem to offer custom built in Europe, or at least makes it much more complicated than in the US) does not seem to have a configuration that includes an SSD? That is at least true in Sweden. I mean, we are talking about one of the most expensive laptop out there, and one that must be intended to be the "best of the best". Seems very strange...what conclusions should be made from this?

 

I guess, the European market is not that important for HP's business line...

 

Does anyone here also have or has used an M6500 and can comment on the fan noise? Also maybe compared to an Asus G73?

 

You have not found out about resellers in your country

Search Here. I got at least 2 resellers in Sweden. It's likely they offer CTO's, I'm pretty sure of this:

If HP advertises several configuration types in the Specs tab (you can see there is a 940XM processor, as well as a 256G SSD, none of them included in the pre-configured models) is because they offer them through 'Preferred Partners' (aka 'Resellers'). Resellers can order individual components through wholesalers and setup the system for you as desired.

Note: Customized orders are VERY EXPENSIVE in Europe. You've been warned. Your system may easily exceed the 3500€ price tag (mine was 4041€ .

Hope this helps

 

Swabbies! Yer chattering will send ya straight to Davy JOne's locker!


I'd never order a system with a SSD and RAM upgrades. Those are insanely priced. For that kind of money you can get 2 Intel SSD's and much more RAM afterwards, lol. Just order a regular HDD and 2GB of RAM.

 

I read that with SSD and TRIM, W7 will disable SuperFetch and ReadyBoost. Yet, I see current files under \windows\prefetch. Can someone please explain?

Thanks.

 

Where did you get your RAM?

 

For those who like IPS 10-bit panels.

Dell U3011

I'll stick to my Dell 3008WFP for now.

 

Here you go. I'm sure, you can find a better deal.

If I wasn't so mobile... Still, 1.5k for a screen is a tough call.

 

I know. But what else do you expect from a new release.
That's actually quite low. When the 3008WFP came out, I think it was about $2.5K-$3k.


I picked up a new Dell 3008WFP early this year for $850.