zBook G2 Owners - Alternatives to "Z Turbo Drive"?

I got one and it works great, it was used but it works great no problems at all but it was the actual HP drive. They pop up on ebay every now and then.

 

Have you run any benchmarks or speed tests on the drive?


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I just posted one for sale on eBay. Just search for Sandisk A110 M.2 2260 256GB HP PN# 759492-001.

 

............ never mind

 

Tommy, didn't see your ?? What was it?


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It was a Samsung that was 22x80. I see only 22x60 can fit. I wanted a 256gb so I could make it my boot and app drive.

 

Edit: See post below. (I don't know how to delete the post - sorry!)

 

Edit: See post below. (I don't know how to delete the post - sorry!)

 

@JacekP:
A.) Do you have problems with booting from SamsungXP941? => SamsungXP941 does have boot-problems. PlextorM6e is better/more reliable in booting:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-XP941-Plextor-PX-G256-M6e-M-2-Qualification-575/
=> See chapter "Motherboard Compatibility"
B.) Do you still have the problem with "boot from USB-Stick", if the SamsungXP941 is build in?
If yes, did you try to disabling secure boot in the bios?

 

Does anybody else have experince with m.2-PCIe-SSD's in zBook15-G2 or zBook17-G2 ?
eg. Samsung SM951 (PCIe3.0 x4), Samsung XP941 (PCIe2.0 x2), Plextor M6e (PCIe2.0 x2) or KINGSTON HyperX Predator (PCIe2.0 x4) ??
=> I need urgent information if anybody does have positive experience with SSD-model ???????? in zBook15-G2 or _17-G2, especially if m.2-SSD is used as a system-harddisk.
=> Questions:
...> Are there problems with booting from this m.2-SSD?
...> Is the Bios in Bios- or UEFI-mode? Does both works fine?
...> Does boot from USB (Linux or Win) work, if the m.2-SSD is built in?

 

I re-ordered my Zbook 17 G2 with only a 256GB Turbo Drive and just the brackets for the two other drive locations so it must boot. It shipped yesterday and will be here on Wed.

 

Hi
I can give you some infos to the SM951. I can boot or install Windows 7 64bit only in UEFI mode. The SSD has some SMD chips on both sides. So it makes some smaller problems to close the compartment hatch on the backside of the ZBook 15 G2.

BR,

Michael

 

Hi Michael,
Thanks for your answer! I guess you mean the Samsung SM951-AHCI (size 2280). This is the version1 of SM951 - The successor is SM951-NVMe.
http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_sm951nvme_m2_ssd_review
Because I didn't got an answer here last week, I've also orderd an Samsung SM951-AHCI yesterday. I'll get it in some days.
(At the moment there is an supply-bottleneck with the newer NVMe-version and the older is cheaper.). That's why, I'm very interesseted in this SSD/your informations! I will also use Win7-64bit in zBook15-G2.
I know, that 2280 will fit in zBook15-G2 - with a little work-around (=tape) ;-). UEFI is ok for me.
--> Do you have the AHCI-version?
--> Do you have problems in booting from USB-Stick if the SSD is build in, as another forum-member wrote some postes before?
--> What read-/write-speed do you have?
--> Have you tried image-backups from your SSD by booting from USB // e.g. with Acronis_TrueImage,....? Does it work?
Thanks for your help again!

 

This is a laptop thread. Go to a desktop thread if you are going to discuss pcie cards with storage.


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Hello aztec. Please read first and THEN post!
The topic is exclusively zBook15/17-G2. PCIe is the linkage/accessibility/binding of m.2 SSD-cards. m.2 cards can have PCIe or SATA accessibility altough the interface is every time m.2-slot.

 

- I got the SM951 (AHCI, 256GB) for my zBook 15 G2. The 256 GB version is single-sided, no chips are at the back-side. There is no problem closing the latch at all. I put some tape over the SSD to fix it and protect it from the latch, though.
- I did have some problems with booting from USB-sticks, but that was UEFI-related and had nothing to do with the SSD.
- I didn't try image backups from USB, I cloned my HDD to SSD directly. I don't have an Acronis license and tried GParted and two other tools without success (GParted did not boot correctly, some other tool did not support UEFI boot from CD). Minitool-drivecopy worked for me.
- My OS is Win8.1 64bit. BIOS is from late July, I think 1.08.
- The speed is disappointing, I get around 700 MByte/s: reading a bit more, writing a bit less. It seems to be a limitation of the zBook, because benchmarks of the SM951 show it can go up to 2000MByte/s. Could you tell me your speeds? I want to exclude any issues on my side.

 

Hello CHris48,
Thanks very much for your post!
> I use to clone my boot partition very often. Normally/on my old Desktop (no UEFI / just Bios / but with AHCI) I boot from an USB and I use the (very, very old) program Symantec Ghost. It's very easy to use (Dos surface) and on my old PC it was absolutely reliable in backup/restore the whole AHCI-boot-partition. But I'm afraid, that it will not work with UEFI and zBook,... :-(
> " .....The speed is disappointing....."
Yes, altough I will get my SSD in a few days (at the moment is shippment), I've calculated with something. Also in this post:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-to-z-turbo-drive.769103/page-5#post-10047413
user_JacekP wrote, that his SSD (PCIe 2.0) is also quite slow, altough it could reach much higher speed. I've hoped that "our" SSD is faster - because our SM951 (PCIe3.0 x4 lanes) is the successor of JanekP's Samsung SSD XP941 256GB, M.2 (PCIe2.0 x4lanes) and uses PCIe3.0.
But your right: It seems very much that
- ALTOUGH the HP's white paper of zBook17-G2 talks about support PCIe3.0 with ??lanes
see page 13: http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA5-4884ENW.pdf

- IT SEEMS that the zBook15-G2 definitly just supports PCIe2.0 x2lanes:
See the table in the middle: http://www.hardwareschotte.de/magazin/alles-was-man-ueber-m-2-wissen-muss-a41637
Then the max. speed of 800MB/s is plausible!
But ok. I'm no power-freak. It's ok and the SM951 is also usable in the next Laptop, which hopefully will support PCIe3.0x4 on m.2 interface.

Moreover, look what I've found:
For HP-Desktops => Samsung is the offcial supplier for zDrive_Gen2 => document from Samsung with datasheet of SM951: https://www.compuram.de/documents/datasheet/SM951_M.2_SSD_Spec_1.0_General(AHCI).pdf

> "....Could you tell me your speeds?...."
Yes sure. But I will get my SM951 in some days and then I've to install first the complete computer. I'm afaraid that this will need about one week ;-).
But I'm quite sure, that I'll also have just 700-800MB/s!
(Would be intersting what the zBook do with the newer Samsung SM951_NVMe. But I guess: => the same, because the PCIe3.0 and the 4 PCIe-lanes are missing in zBook15-G2 ( obviously just 2 lanes PCIe2.0)

 

Let me summarize.
- The chipset is a QM87 which supports PCIe 2.0, only. (PCIe 3.0 referenced in the datasheet is for the graphics card and provided by the processor. See: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/qm87-chipset-diagram.html)
- It seems that the zBooks support only two PCIe 2.0 lanes with a theoretical maximum of 1GByte/s. Without overhead we see speeds of about 800MByte/s. It might be a BIOS/software limitation, but I believe the hardware does not support more lanes. That means it is not worth buying the very fast and expensive SSDs.
- We know that the Samsung XP941 and SM951 are fully supported in UEFI mode.
- We know that AHCI versions work. We don't know if the NVMe version of the SM951 is supported.
- The single-sided SM951 with "only" 256GB is thinner and fits perfectly. Higher-capacity versions are dual-sided and they do not fit that well.

There is just too much marketing in HP's technical whitepapers. I wish they would add real facts, only. They talk about turbo-drive and PCIe 3.0, but never come out and say what exactly is supported and what not.

 

Hello chris48,

Thanks for the useful tip with the QM87 chipset. I've over-readed/skiped it, while reading the tech_paper. You're right. Only the external graphics (Nvidia- or AMD-card) does have PCIe3.0. The other peripherals are thetered via QM87 with only PCIe2.0.

But I understand the intel-QM87-datasheet and -diagram from your link in that way: The QM87 does have PCIe2.0 and in summary 8 lanes for all PCIe-ports. These 8 lanes are CONFIGURABLE for the ports. So it could support:

• 2 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x4 lanes
• OR 1 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x4 lanes + 2 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x2 lanes
  
• OR 4 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x2 lanes
• OR 8 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x1 lane

I don't really think that it is possible to configure for end-user (maybe in UEFI/Bios), but maybe if you deactivate not used PCIe-peripherals (e.g. the m.2-SIM-card-slot,...) it is possible to use PCIe2.0 x4lanes for m.2-SSD-slot !?! => The chipset would support it !! => Then we would have 1600MB/s instead of 800MB/s on m.2-SSD.
It's a small chance - but have a look on it. (I guess that the QM87-chipset-configuration is choosen and fixed by HP to [4 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x2 lanes] // But maybe it's really end-user configurable...)

I'm quite sure that NVMe is supported by zBook-G2 becuse it's especially mentioned in white paper / see link in my last post ( http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA5-4884ENW.pdf). But it would be interessting which speed is reachable... ;-)

Yes, you're absolutely right! I absolutely agree. But we have to be thankful, that we've found any kind of white paper. I guess that normally end-costumers don't get something from HP.... Maybe only admin's from huge companies, which are interested to buy a huge number of zBooks....

 

Hello Together,

i'm also interested in using the 2280 pcie m.2 modules in my zBook-G2. Because this is a business use case, i'm not allowed to do such a "tape construction". So I thought about using such an extender and locate the ssd near the rotating hard drive:

https://www.m-ware.de/en/adapters-a...f-b-m-key-sata-ssd-extension-id14826/a-14826/

Does anyone of you have any experience with this? Do you think I'll suffer transfer speed?

Regards,
Matthias

 

You'll need no tape. To clamp is also enough. The hook of the metal-cover-plate will hold the SSD down. But it's hard to mount/put the SSD inside the slot. Look the pic in post #40:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-to-z-turbo-drive.769103/page-4#post-10037999

 

Thanks for your fast reply!

But what about the mentioned cut of in post 41?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-to-z-turbo-drive.769103/page-5#post-10038722

 

I guess in post 41 is meant: If you take the metale plate off, the hook moves a little bit (and rubs/crops a little bit on the SSD). Thats why in post41 he cutted the hook off and fixed the SSD with tape. I couldn't test it on my own, because I get my SSD tomorrow. But I' pretty sure that there's no tape needed. You've just to be very carefull, when you tke the meatlplate off which means when you move the unlocker of metal-plate to the side...
Read the posts about 40-50 - othe users also didn't use tape! ...and... a pic says more than 1000 words => see pic link in my last post = link in post40. So I guess no poroblem for you - also without adapter...

 

@chris48: Did you read my last post for you?

 

BIOS/UEFI manual:
By the way: Does anybody know, where to get an manual for the Bios/UEFI-Bios for zBook15-G2 ?
I mean a manual, where all the configuration-possibilites are exactely described!
I've bought the zBook and there where no kind of manual in the package. Also in download-area of HP I couldn't find something. :-(

 

Thanks a lot for your help.
Then I'm gonna buy a one side equipped 2280 m.2 ssd.

Last information missing is the two or four lane switchability. Could you please inform us when you figured out if your guessing is right? This would influence my decision about the read/write speeds a lot.

 

Hi

Just in case you are interested:
This are the performance values of the SM951 500GB AHCI in my ZBook 15 G2 (´Windows7 64Bit):

AS SSD Benchmark 1.8.5608.42992

Read: Write:
Seq 753,43 MB/s 606,27 MB/s
4K 33,13 MB/s 74,21 MB/s
4K-64Thrd 417,95 MB/s 190,73 MB/s
Accesstime 0,058 ms 0,054 ms
Score: 526 326
1124

 

Hi guys,

I've just did serious sh*t
The company ordered a Zbook G2. Therefore, because I was gonna get it for free, I decided to put some of my personal budget and oder a Msata 512 Evo 850 (the new one) instead of the M.2 version.
I also ordered a Thunderbolt adaptor for external Video card gaming (my 970)

The laptop got delayed and the date to change the msata is gone. Ive read somewhere that a guy was using msata 512 Samsung but I misread that it was Zbook - not a Zbook G2
So, what should I do?

Sell it and get a normal ssd or one of those 2280?
Buy an adapter from M-2 to msata ? Or sata to msata? Is there something available?

Thanks

 

Something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Sintech-mSATA...&qid=1441387265&sr=1-18&keywords=msata+to+m.2

 

Hello gablerm67, (and chris48)
Thanks!! - Very interesting for me. When I'll have my SM951-AHCI-SSD (tomorrow via post), I'll have exactely the same configuration. (But first I've to install the complete PC on SSD...)
Did you read my post 69?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-to-z-turbo-drive.769103/page-7#post-10082368
Small chance: If you would be able to deactivate unused PCIe2.0-pheripherials, then the QM87-Chip
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/mobile-chipset-qm87.html
does have more free PCIe2.0-lanes for SM951-SSD. I mean 4 lanes instead of 2 lanes for SSD-Slot. At the moment you're useing PCIe2.0 x2lanes with that speed you've posted.
Have a look in your Bios/UEFI (or maybe Windows?) if there is a possibility. e.g. deactivate the SIM-m.2-Slot (I guess it uses 1 PCIe2.0-lane) + anothe PCIe2.0-slot/peripherial, if possible.
If yes, maybe it's possible to get the SM951-AHCI to the double speed. (But also maybe it's not possible, because the configuration of the lanes is fixed by HP). But if we believe intel (see link up) => the QM87 Chip is configrable! See my post 69.

 

Sata protocol is not provided by the M.2 connector in the G2's. So any ssd, keyword "PCIe" missing is not supported. You can use the msata on the standard sata hard drive or optical drive position with an adapter, but not at the M.2 connector.

 

Sorry, for the delayed answer. I already had everything deactivated I didn't need but this works for stuff like serial and parellel ports, only. There is no option for anything PCIe. Which means it is not user-configurable. There is a slight change that a BIOS update fixes it, but I don't believe it.
I don't play around with end-user hardware much, anymore. But I don't think it is common to do that. I think my old desktop-pc has an option like that for standard-PCIe ports. It is an overclocker-model, though.

The BIOS guide you're looking for is here: http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA5-2078ENW.pdf
Unfortunately it is a general guide for all current products. I am afraid there's no guide dedicated to the zBook.

@hopey: You don't need any tape to fix it. The 2280 modules fit perfectly under the latch. I just put some tape over it, because the latch rubs a bit on the flash-chip. I guess it is not needed but it doesn't hurt. As mentioned earlier my card is single-sided. With the thicker double-sided modules I would actually recommend that.

 

Thanks for the information - then I'll have a go with the single sided module.

@Xaos
Did you also deaktivate the wwan interface:
Feature Function Default setting, if applicable Reboot required
• Embedded WWAN device Enables integrated WWAN device (not available on the HP Z440, Z640, and Z840) Enabled Yes

As I saw, this is not equipped at some notebook and has also thins kind of interface.

 

I totally agree with your concern. I have the Zbook 17 G2 and don't like the idea of shoving in the 2280 into the 2260 space. I thought of the extender board with a long flex cable option and it seems to be a very good idea especially that there is space available above the 2.5'' SATA drives (when installing SSD). However I am waiting for the right extender board to become available. The board you have sent supports only B key drives (which is the older sandisk A110) and does not support most of the new faster m.2 drives which are M key.

After searching for a while I think the M2-M2280-FLEX by Adex at the following link will work however I am not sure. I hope that someone in USA orders it and try it before I can make an international order for the board and have it not working after that !

http://www.adexelec.com/m2.htm

 

Hi Mohamed,
I also found this - but had also no interest in ordering overseas. But after you posted the link I had a second look at it and found this International Distributors page:
http://www.adexelec.com/distrib.htm
...maybe it is helpful for youl

 

Hello chris48 and hopey,
@chris48: Thanks for trying and posting the link to BIOS-manual. Very usefull for me.
@chris48+hopey: Yesturday I've studied the technical white-paper of zBook17-G2 and the intel_chipset_QM87-inet-Page and manuals a few hours. + I used the program "HWinfo64_portable" http://www.hwinfo.com/download.php
to find out, which devices are on PCIe-2.0 bus. Target was to find out, which devices we would have to disable to get the SSD on 4 lanes instead of 2 lanes. Here are the results:
=> The HP's technical white-paper of zBook17-G2 definitely talkes about, that the SSD is possible to be linked with 4 lanes.
=> Only the HP's zTurboDrive-SSD (Sandisk size 2260) just can use PCIe2.0 x2 lanes, because the SSD don't support more lanes.
=> I think that the following devices are linked to the QM87-chipset via PCIe_2.0:
....1) m.2-SSD-Slot (2 lanes or maybe also 4 lanes, if the chipset don't uses the lane 3+4 for othe devices)
....2) m.2-WLAN-Module (1 lane / according to bios-manual of HP-Notebooks => deactivatable) // Bluetoth is via USB connected
...3) m.2-WWAN-module = SIM-card-module (1 lane / according to bios-manual of HP-Notebooks => deactivatable)
...4) SD-Card-Reader (1 lane / according to bios-manual of HP-Notebooks => deactivatable)
...5) PCIexpress-Card (according to bios-manual of HP-Notebooks => 1 or 2 lanes in Bios configurable)
.................................................................==> This would be 7 of possible 8 PCIe2.0-lanes of the QM87-chipset.
Maybe the list is not exactely correct, but if we could deaktivate some devices, then the QM87-chipset could use the free lanes for the 3rd and 4th lane for SSD.
So if it would be possible to deactivate e.g. WWAN-Module an set PC-Card to 1 PCIe-lane (instead 2 lanes) => then there are 2 more lanes possible for SSD ! The Chip QM87 should cofigure the SSD to 4 lanes automatically.

EDIT of text on 10.09.2015!

 

Hi,

I ended-up ordering a Msata to 2.5 SATA3 drive. Its perfect and I'm achieving 530/530 Mbs performance after 8k

 

I thought you were discussing pcie cards that people are using to attach m2 drives to & using them on pcie slots on motherboards in desktop machines. My Zbook g2 wouldn't accommodate those. Just a misunderstanding of the use of the word "cards". To me a m2 drive is a drive and not a card. Whatever, no biggie - my apology if I misunderstood you.


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I returned my 17 G2. I have a CD-Rom hard drive caddy that I didn't even use. Come with case. $20 shipped

 

Hello
It seems that the M2-M2280-FLEX by Adex is still new and not listed on the distributors websites. Besides, there is no Add to Cart button !

 

You have done great effort here. thank you !

However I don't think HP would allow end users to modify such settings. I think it would require a major Bios update or a hack that would definitely void the warranty. I am also afraid that the current hardware would not allow connecting more lanes to the M.2 lane even if the QM87 chipset is configurable.

 

Won't disabling them in the BIOS be enough to prevent them from using the other PCIe lanes?

Edit: for spelling

 

I don't think so. Even if you can disable devices from using lanes I think the hardware mist suppot to aupply more lanes to other devices too. I am not sure though

 

From what you wrote I think ALL x4 lanes are available to the M.2 PCIe SSD. We'll have to wait till someone gets the Samsung NVMe x4 and they attempt to use it to find out. Apple uses the same chipset and CPU and they did manage to use an x4 PCIe SSD in their MacBook Pro 2015 model.

Update: Found this on Ars Technica. Seems Apple use 4 of the PCIe lanes meant for the graphics chip to connect to the PCIe.

 

After further reading of http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebo...scard-slot/m-p/4962544/highlight/true#M169744 and other sites it seems that the PCIe lanes are as follows (partly guessing):
WLAN, ExpressCard, and SD Card Reader share x1 2 Gbps
Thunderbolt uses x4 16 Gbps
There are 3 lanes left
M.2 PCIe uses x2 4 Gbps = 1GB/s
plus one x1 unknown

It's possible that the Thunderbolt2 usex x5 20Gbps and the M.2 use x2? That fills up all lanes.

 

Confusing

 

Hi all,

What about this for the Zbook 17 G2?

 

For that money you can get a msata 512gb drive.

 

Watch out! That M.2 SATA SSD may not work in your 17 G2.
I don't know if the topic-starter owns a 15 G2 or 17 G2, but his ZBook did not recognize that same drive:

This 17 G2 owner stated that another M.2 SATA SSD did not work in his 17 G2:

It seems the 15/17 G2 will accept M.2 PCIe SSDs only; besides the SATA 2.5" bay ofcourse.
I'm not sure about the 14 G2.

 

Wow, thanks for the warning... I am new to SSDs, looking to enjoy my first one, and there are a lot of specs involved.

Has any M.2 PCIe SSD that will work been identified? I couldn't even find the official HP Z Turbo Drive or whatever it's called, if that even is such a thing, being sold a la carte! Anyone got a link for that at least?