[To all newer AMD Turion owners]Strange power handling on hp dv5

RAM doesn't produce much heat.

But anyway i'm also pretty sure there's something wrong with the DV5s - i just figured out that the battery in my DV5 is actually an 8-cell. Because it has a voltage of 14.4v, and since each cell is 3.6v you'd need 4 to make 14.4. Thus my battery has two banks of four cells each. And still gets only 1:40.

I never thought much about the bluetooth module - i don't even have the HP Wireless Assistant installed under win, so when wifi is on BT is on too. But i don't use the wifi all that often.

 

Well, I know that a li-ion cell when fully charged has a voltage of 4.1-4.2 volts. Maybe you're measuring 14.4v just because there is no load. The same applies to common rechargeable AA batteries: the label reports 1.2v, but when measured without load they are 1.5v.

Anyway, about the bluetooth thingy, I'm not using it too, but as showed using powertop on linux, the device is working 100% of time even if it is not used. I had to bring down the device to gain almost 10°C.

 

I didn't measure it, that's what it's rated for. It wouldn't be a bad idea to measure it either, just never thought of it. I base my assumption on the fact that the battery in my dv9000 is 10.8v and it is a 12-cell (8800mAh). 3x 3.6 = 10.8. So it has four groups of 3 cells. It is longer than the one in my DV5 with exactly one cell length, so it must only have two extra cells inside.

Btw, Li-Ion batteries are always rated with their discharged voltage. I know they go up to 4.2 when charged, but ever seen a cellphone battery say anything else than 3.7v? I don't think so.

As far as AA batteries go, a new off-the-shelf alkaline is 1.65v. So the rechargeables are labeled 1.2 for a reason.

 

Oh I just thought you measured battery voltage and got 14.4v
Do you discovered the voltage looking at the label on the battery? In this case, I agree with you, probably it is 8-cell battery (2x4 array).

In the meantime, I measured the power drain on my dv5 with 4gb of ddr2 and with 2gb of ddr2. You had right, during idle ddr2 power usage is almost negligible. Checked out the sodimms and they actually have 16 bga chips on them.

 

I think so too i tried about everything to keep my DV5 cool so far nothing worked im suprised its still working now its been outta warranty for months now. Even with undervolting on idle temps was at 58C, while browsing its temps reached 70C, watching youtube vids it got to 76C sometimes 80C and finally when playing its got to 88C sometimes over 92C and also it had shut down a couple of times and my vents was clean of dust and also it actually burned my hand trying to picking it up also the heat actually killed my battery so i had to buy one and even with the new one i get only 1hr and 30mins on power saver

Hp kinda of need to stop focusing on the looks of their notebooks and focus whats inside and also build of it like the cooling vents,etc i kinda of caved in and bought this toshiba at best buy for only $750 (specs in sig) and was a steal especally with the specs and its run much much cooler and im already very happy with it

BTW my family now mainly uses it now its been on a notebook cooler mostly just for internet since they dont play games just flash games mind well call it a desktop now since its never moved from my desk since i bought my toshiba

 

KING19,

I assume you're talking Celsius instead of fahrenheit right?

My DV6 reached 92 Degrees Celsius once (max registered temp), average 86 Celsius ,while playing COD5 Word at War Multiplayer this week-end. That was with the notebook cooler working and power setting to "HP recommended", after 45 minutes of gameplay. I'll keep doing it, as I payed for a laptop, not a paperweight.

I think it's retarded. Makes you wonder how HP did their testing in order to approve the design on those...

I don't mind the hot air coming out the vents / Fan noise...but to run a CPU that close to it's max temp (AMD states 100Degrees Celsius is the max temp), c'mon.

How can I use my notebook to it's maximum potential (and gaming on that HD4650 1Gig) without worrying about temperatures???)

 

Yeah i meant celsius i was pretty tired while typing that i just fixed it now

Thats some pretty high temps there i think these HP notebooks can handle this excessive heat since my DV5z still works i had it for a 1 and 3 months now.

Also you should buy a notebook cooler and also try to undervolting as well

 

Yep, I've done all that - undervolting, underclocking, notebook cooler, ICD thermal compound. Still the idle temp is close to 60C all the time. And it regularly hits 90C and higher when I'm compiling code on it. Basically the thermal design in this notebook sucks.

 

Now, when it reaches temperatures in the high 90's Celsius, does it throttles-down? Any automatic preventive shutdowns to prevent the computer to be permanently damaged?

 

The cpu should automatically throttle when the temp reaches ~97C and the shutdown temp is 105C. So, as far as cpu burning itself out its unlikely but then again the cooler they run the better for the whole system.

 

Unfortunately it is not always true.
Since throttling is configurable, many notebook vendors configure the processors not to throttle.
For example, on my notebook issuing TurionPowerControl -htc gives this:

Code:

Turion Power States Optimization and Control - by blackshard - v0.12
Detected CPU:
Family: 0xf		Model: 0x3		Stepping: 0x1
Extended Family: 0x11	Extended Model: 0x3
Package Type: 0x2	BrandId: 0x500	
Detected Physical Cores: 2
Processor has 3 Power Planes

HTC features enabled flag: false. Hardware Thermal Control is disabled.
HTC features currently active (means overheating): false
HTC features has been active (means overheated in past): false
HTC parameters are locked: false
HTC Slew control: by Tctl without Slew register
HTC Limit temperature (equal or above means overheating): 100
HTC Hysteresis temperature (equal or below means no more overheating) : 95
HTC PState Limit: 1
Processor AltVID: 64 (0.750v)
Done!

Processors are configured this way on my dv5 and also on a new acer 5536G.

As you see Hardware Thermal Control is disabled, so the processor won't throttle.
I talked to an HP "technimagician" and he told me "there are no problems, if something get too hot, the computer just shuts down. Does your computer shut down? No? Then there are no problems..."
That's all from HP. The technician was also not so much skilled btw.

TurionPowerControl has some features to enable/manage thermal capabilities, just launch the program without switches for the self-explanatory help.
I enabled HTC on my dv5 and actually it works, but HTC state is fixed at 800 Mhz and 1.200 volts and may cause issues (= system crash) if you're downvolting your machine, but anyway you can give it a try.

About temperatures, with Fedora 11 x64 I get a temperature of 45°C after 2-3 minutes of idling, with room temp of 22-23°C and got this nice result when I realized that bluetooth module was preventing the processor to correctly idle itself.

 

Regardless of bluetooth or not, idle temps do not matter. Since some of the DV5s still go in the 90s under load, there is a problem.

@ KING19: Remove the battery when you are using the notebook on AC power. Otherwise, you'll kill the new battery just as fast as the previous one.

Anyway the crappy cooling trend isn't only on HP notebooks. Pretty much everyone does it. Even Apple machines which some people seem to swear by, have serious temperature issues.

Hmm. Maybe we should start a business as notebook designers.

 

No some of the vendors uses a different hardware based thermal protection.
Remember my photo I posted?
It has a 5 pin fan the interesting thing is that if I short the thermal pin on the thermal sensor wires it shutdown automatically.
I do agree that Laptop vendors has not done enough thermal management.

 

how do I enable HTC again?

Also, is it possible that hardware sensors are out to lunch on these laptops?

Sorry to post in the DV5 thread, but I think that my DV6 is made using exactly the same layout and probably share the same components.

 

Well, I know what you mean, but actually this is a processor builtin feature to reduce processor overheating. The computer won't shut down, the processor will just reduce frequency to 800 Mhz to let itself cool down.
Instead the whole computer will shut down when the sensor detects an unacceptable temperature of the system, not just the cpu.

edit: to be precise, when I say "the sensor", I mean an external probe outside the processor.

 

Use TurionPowerControl -htcenable to enable HTC features, but be careful because it may not work correctly if you undervolted your processor.

Anyway the sensor probe is a diode inside the processor and is not related to any other sensor in the laptop. HTC is a feature of the processor and relates just to the processor ecosystem, not dealing with any other part of the notebook.

About dv6/dv5, don't worry, this thread talks about turion and athlon mobile processors, not just hp dv5

 

thanks for your contribution to this thread.
I will try this feature and report back soon.
I'll "road-test" my laptop enough, going away from home for over a month, so I'll have all kinds of time to run it, game on it, test it.

 

Thank you

Note that you can also change the "overheat temperature", using -htctemplimit switch. You can let the processor throttle at 70°C, for example.

 

I just found this:

http://sites.amd.com/us/vision/tips-tools/cool-apps/Pages/fusion-utility-mobility.aspx

AMD Fusion Utility for mobility.
I'm trying it, just for kicks. Using the balanced mode, just like that, my idle temp dropped by 3-4 degrees celsius.

What it does is that it shuts down all kinds of unneeded features and/or applications. It has lots of different default profiles., including max performance for gaming.

Now, using "max battery life", even if I'm actually connected to line power, the idle temp dropped to 42 Degrees celsius, its a good 5 degrees celsius below what I usually get for idle temps.
Although it's a lot different than undervolting, using both undervolting AND Fusion mobility could lead to good results!!!

 

Having been away from this forum for a while, I've just recently come across this thread and have been digging through all 18 pages of it before attempting to make any changes.. My trouble is with trying to get TurionPowerControl to run on my DV4Z (RM-70 processor running Vista). I've copied over the archive and set it up in its own directory and have installed the Visual 2005 & 2008 Runtime libraries along with their respective service packs. I can run the program (using command prompt) without modifiers to pull up the full "how to" list, but running it with the -l, -cm or any other modifiers brings back a WinRing0 library error. I've tried copying over the dll and sys files over to the System32 directory (I've had some programs that required that), but this doesn't work either. Anything I'm missing?

 

Are you running it as admin?

 

Silly me, I didn't realize that was a right-click menu option.. Can you tell that I'm not all that familiar with Vista? The program runs great now!

Interesting to see that my RM-70 is getting reported as a Turion Ultra with 3 power planes; I had thought the RM-70 was considered a standard Turion and would thus only have 2 power planes. Then again, I see on one report that your QL report as having 3 power planes, so perhaps they're all there, just not adjustable...

Time to start playing!

I'm assuming it's normal under "maximum performance" setting to never have core voltage drop below 1.1V, no matter what the processor speed? These power management settings obviously have the ability to modify the pstate tables, just as your program does.. I did see a quick blip to 1.2V at this setting so I'm confirming the same glitch on my RM-series processor.

 

well, there are some little quirks when recognizing processors. BTW, I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with recognizing your RM as ZM. Are you sure you're using the latest 0.12 version? Actually I never tested a RM processor by myself, so there may be some minor issues. Actually RM and QL are always two-plane processors.

Yes, maximum performance is supposed to lock the processor in the fastest p-state, no matter what load you have.
Windows power management don't touch the pstates tables, just stops any transition to lower performance pstates. Some people think that transitions are hardware initiated, but they aren't (with the exception of the "anomalous" transitions to pstates 6 and 7).

Have fun!

 

Just a small update of my DV5Z notebook

Today both of my 1gb sticks of RAM died probably heat-related damage the caps lock light kept flashing when booting up and also when it booted up it frozed even reseating both RAM stick didnt work anyways luckly i find some extra RAM around the house and its booted up sucessfully but both of sticks of RAM are 512mb each now im down to 1GB on it I hope my family will bare the slowness of vista with only 1GB of RAM but i will upgrade it soon

 

Just made my way through this thread, looking for a solution to my DV5-1004NR' s overheating issues.

I'm using my DV5 as a HTPC, so I want max performance all the time so it's ready to play any HD material with no jerkiness.

It seems as though just setting Windows power management to 100% CPU min and max is not sufficient for these CPUs.

So should I follow this advice from this thread to provide max performance and stability?:

Should I run both those commands? And do i need to worry about the K10STAT stuff?

Also can / should I run the AMD program mentioned above instead or as well as this? ( http://go.notebookreview.com/?id=52.../cool-apps/Pages/fusion-utility-mobility.aspx)

Thanks so much - looking forward to your replies and having the confidence to proceed with this!

 

Sorry....just wanted to bump my question above....

Anyone got any suggestions? Thanks so much!

 

Well, if you set maximum performance profile, you usually get real max performance, even if the processor frequency goes up and down during idle states. Actually, with HD contents, I'm using the video card acceleration and I always get no stuttering with very low cpu usage.

Yes, if you wish. Those are a sort of "optimization" to the original processor behaviour, they will probably help produce less heat and maybe also more stable multimedia performance.
About k10stat, it's your choice. You may wish to use its cpu scaler (for better single thread performances, but worse battery life) or use Windows default cpu scaler (worse single thread performances, better battery life).

Fusion utility just disables a bunch of useless services and applications to free memory and cpu cycles. It's a different matter and you can use both turionpowercontrol/k10stat and fusion utility since their features and not overlapping.

 

Great...thanks for the really helpful response A couple of Qs:

Are the turionpowercontrol commands remembered after restart?

I ran the two mentioned commands and (don't know if I'm just imagining it) but the pc does seem to be slightly less prone to overheating and shutting down.

If you have the time I would appreciate it so much if you could write down all turionpowercontrol commands (including KSTAT10) that I should run for max performance and least overheating. I plan on keeping CPU at 100% min and max. Sorry to ask, but this is more advanced stuff than I usually dabble in so want to make sure I get it right

I don't care one bit about battery life - my laptop is used as a HTPC desktop.

It never overheats just by playing back HD content...sometimes when Fast forwarding through it, and usually during multitasking,

Do you have the ATI HD3200 graphics? I couldn't find an option for hardware acceleration in the CCC for it...am i missing something?

Thanks so much again

 

Unfortunately they aren't.
TurionPowerControl just sets some processor registers. When the computer is restarted, those registers goes to default and turionpowercontrol must be recalled.
BTW you can use weinter's guide here:

http://aspiregemstone.blogspot.com/2009/06/k10stat-amd-griffin-processor.html

to configure the program to run at every boot. In that example k10stat is used, just change the program name with turionpowercontrol

Well, if you have shutting down problems, your machine has a potential serious problem. Maybe it's just some dust in the exhaust vents, maybe the fan is not working, or maybe it is a more serious issue, but I think it is a good idea to use warranty or check inside the computer.

Those commands on the first page of this thread are all suitable for maximum performance possible. You can downvolt (reduce processor voltage) your processor too, to let it produce less heat, but this may cause system instability and it is a try and error process.
BTW if you launch the program without any command, it will list all available commands. Generally you have to use -pallc command to modify frequency and voltage parameters in a single shot.

I have hd3450. BTW, you have to use compliant codecs to allow hardware acceleration for HD contents. For example, I use media player classic home cinema and generally it handles itself all the tedious codec configurations.
Just check google about mpc-hc and hardware acceleration, I'm sure there are many pages talking about.

 

Actually I could make another guide for TPC but I haven't figure out how many conditions to make it launch like sleep/resume to make it run 24/7.
I think the CPU registers reset after a sleep but there is no way to make it run on resume.
I think I found the reason why AMD disable the high temp throttling it was said to be unreliable in the AMD Processor Documentation hence they urge Vendors not to use that particular function.

Edit: Maybe there will be 2 conditions to make it run.
At startup and At log on (For Sleep/Resume)

 

OK, will open it up and see if there's any dust asap...

Funny thing is I'm pretty sure it only overheats so badly that it shuts off when "minimum processor state" is set to 100% (ie High performance power mode in Vista). It seems to run a LOT cooler in HP recommended power mode (5% minimum processor sate).

Does that sound strange, or is that to be expected?

Does the minimum processor state make any discernible difference to performance (specifically for video playback?)

In any case I presume turionpowerconctrol, and undervolting will help. Is KSTAT10 the best / only method for undervolting a DV5?

Thanks again!

 

Given HP's cooling system that is to be expected. At 100% load on stock settings my DV5 ran at 95C. After undervolting it is down to 84, and average temps are in the high 60s.

Speed switching in the "HP Recommended" profile is as unobtrusive as it could be (not that they know how to tweak it anyway, the "HP Recommended" is simply Windows' Balanced profile renamed), so it will NOT get in the way of video playback.

I haven't even tried K10STAT, i use TurionPowerControl and it works perfectly.

 

Even the shutdowns? If so I'm quite relieved

In other words, is it basically essential not to use Vista's high performance power setting on this laptop?

So is the only "undervolting" you use Turionpowercontrol? Do you just run the TurionPowerControl -pallc 6 48 1 13 command, or do you do the pstate 7 one as well?

And do you run it manually each time you start up windows?
If so would it be possible to make a .bat file to make it even easier?

Thanks so much!

 

In the best of my knowledge there are 3 undervolting utilities for AMD Griffin CPUS
1)Blackshard's TPC
2)GriffinPowerControl by Systematic
3)K10STAT supposedly for K10 CPU overclocking and undervolting but happens to work on Griffin CPU as well due to power design.

 

Those temps seem a little high to me. My Dv5 runs in the low 50s as my average temp (mid to upper 40s when on my cooler) and the highest it has ever reached is 71c. I don't undervolt anymore since RMclock doesn't work with the newer AMD processors and I haven't really found another tool that I like, I hope the rumored notebook hardware control update comes soon since the RMclock project seems to be dead now.

 

I only set voltage for pstates 0 and 1 (not 6 and 7, those are for other things!). You can read blackshard83's explanation on them. But i have found that messing around with pstates 6 and 7 on my laptop = guaranteed crash, so i leave them alone. And yes i do use a bat file set to run on startup. You should also remember to run it after standby/hibernate if you use those functions, unlike Linux, Windows does not have internal functions to run a program after standby or hibernate. At least not to my knowledge.

I also underclock pstate 1 to 800MHz as that seems enough. Btw that's for an Athlon QL-62 which has only 2 power states. The Turion in my DV9700 has 3, but that is an older core which works with RMClock.

I forgot to say, that was with 32C ambients. And the air coming out of the laptop was hot indeed. Indeed summer's out now, but lately i have been using my DV9700 exclusively so i can't really comment on DV5 temps now. I just say that the worst case temps were 84C, which is alright for a chip rated for 100.

 

My dv5z only runs in the 40s fresh out of resume. It quickly hits 60C and usually runs in the 90s at full bore, and I've already undervolted it. I would love to see such low temperatures.

Hm, mebbe I just happened to get a particularly bad ZM80, maybe I should try swapping in a ZM82 and hope that it runs cooler.

 

Cool...but it is still worth running the pstate 6 and 7 commands on my ZM80 right? (As the processor is not designed to go there)

And as I'm sure you can tell I'm pretty nooby at this....I don't suppose there's any way you could share your bat file and let me know how to tweak it to run my ZM80 a little cooler without affecting performance at all.

I never use sleep or hibernate.

Thanks so much!

PS. So are you not surprised by occasional shut-offs with min processor stae set to 100% on this machine (DV5-1004NR)? Dropping it back to 5% seems to have stopped that altogether.

Thanks so much for your kind help

 

it's your choice. From a performance standpoint, I think there's no or little difference: based on my limited tests, the processor enters pstate 6 just when goes idle at pstate 0, so in theory it won't hurt performances.
BTW I don't like the fact that the processor overvolts itself asking for 1.200 volts in a low power state.

The only chances are:

1) downvolt your processor using k10stat or turionpowercontrol. k10stat is a gui-based tool, pretty easy. turionpowercontrol is command-line tool, a bit more difficult to understand but with more in-depth features. Attached to the tpc archive there's a readme file that's worth reading.

2) downclock your processor. I noticed that if I downclock my zm-80 from 2.100 Mhz to 1.600 Mhz or 1.800 Mhz, I get nice temperature drops without any important loss in performances. Again, you can use tpc or k10stat to do this.

About examples, there are lots of examples on how to use the program inside the readme text file attached to the archive and also in the previous past post of this thread.

Still it is not normal you get shutdowns, because they occur when something is heating over the specifications.
Dropping minimum frequency to 5% actually restored power management of the processor, that you previously disabled putting 100% there.

 

Hi guys, some news here.

Tweaking with turionpowercontrol and k10stat I found a way to get more pstates

The trick is:

1) Run TurionPowerControl -psmax numberofpstates you want

2) Run TurionPowerControl -en pstate from 0 to numberofpstates less 1 to enabled the pstates.

3) Disable Windows pstates control (eg: set mininum and maximum processor frequency to the same value in power management options)

4) Run k10stat and its pstates control: it will show more pstates and will let configure them with the options you want.

I tried and it worked on my ZM-80 using 4 pstates (from 0 to 3). I configured pstate 0 for maximum frequency (2100 Mhz), pstate 1 with 1600 Mhz, pstate 2 with 1050 Mhz and pstate 3 with 525 Mhz.

Give it a try!

 

Oooh more pstates. Finally my DV5 can enjoy the same freedom of my DV9700 (the 9700 works with RMClock).

 

This sounds very exciting....would love to try it out on my DV5-1004NR with a ZM-80 CPU.

However.....I'm really not as tech savvy as you guys (although I'm trying to learn more all the time!)

As a result, I don't feel that confident playing around with these awesome tools, much as I would love to.

I know that there are instructions in this thread, but they are hard to follow with true confidence that I'm doing things right....

So I was just wondering if anyone could be so incredibly kind as to post a simple step by step guide / sample bat file to do exactly what blackshard83 describes here. I just want to get max performance from my CPU with minimum spiking and overheating

Sorry for the annoying noobishness...but if anyone could help me out on this I'd be so grateful!

Thanks!

 

I'll drop you a batch file when i get back home.

 

So kind of you! Thanks!

 

Currently I am using this command line:

TurionPowerControlx64 -pallc 6 37 0 13 -pallc 7 37 0 13 -pallc 0 37 0 13 -pallc 1 62 1 13 -pallc 2 64 2 13 -nbvid 58

as you see there are many command switches on a single command line.
pallc command switches set pstate frequency and voltage, nbvid set northbridge voltage.
I have a ZM-80, probably the most unfortunate ever seen ZM-80, and that configuration let it works stable with some underclock.

 

Heh, blackshard83 got ahead of me. If you need a quick explanation here it is:

-pallc = set for all cores in this pstate
first number after pallc = pstate where this applies
second number = VID (voltage identification, you're gonna have to tweak it; the higher the VID the lower the voltage)
third and fourth: DID and FID, which are the CPU frequency multipliers. those decide the frequency of the processor (you can't overclock with them, but you can underclock). if you google for a bit you'll also find the formula, but you can always experiment for yourself.

Use IntelBurnTest for stress testing after you undervolt. The Standard stress level is enough, and it only takes about 15 minutes to tell you whether the system is stable or not.

 

Thanks for the explanation Th3_uN1Qu3, I was too lazy to give it myself

BTW, kiboy6 you can refer to the attached readme.txt file for more explanations and simple formulas to calculate voltage from VID and frequency from FID and DID.
It's absolutely not a difficult task to calculate such values.

 

Thanks so much for the help guys....I also have a DV5 (1004NR) which I believe is very similar to your 1025el, so I should be able to run that very cmd right, perhaps with some minor tweaking?

And do you recommend running KSTAT10 in tandem?

Once I run these commands should I be able to set my CPU minimum to 100% in windows (ie disable windows power mangement).

I know it shouldn't make a difference but I'm sure my HD playback on XBMC (no GPU acceleration) is more jerky when the CPU minimum power is set to 5%. Is it not possible that windows thinks it can handle playing the file fine with less than 100% but that it actually still shows jerky motion when called on to decode a high motion scene (for example)?

Thanks very much for the explanation If you were still willing to let me see your sample batch file I think it would really help me out.

Thanks so much for your patience with me guys - very kind of you!

 

Each notebook is different so you'll have to tweak anyway. For example my DV5 can run with lower voltage than blackshard's.

The frequency switching algorithm isn't THAT lazy. Either it's just your imagination, or something else than the CPU is at fault.

 

OK cool, will definitely tweak. Just to make sure though, is all this tweaking done with 100% minimum cpupower? Or should I leave the min cpu power at 5%?

Did a bit more research on this - it seems as though in the XBMC community foruum anyway, people seem to think that this kind of thing can be an issue:

Sounds reasonable to me, but do you think there's no way that's possible? The power management on my AMD is similar to intel's speedstep, no?

thanks!