8510p or T61p

I am struggling with choosing between these two systems. I keep changing my mind. Either one will probably be an excellent choice, but I want it to last 3+ years if possible. I would like to get some feedback from a few people who own each system. I like the styling on the HP better. Lets face it, Thinkpads are ugly. But what it looks like isn't going to kill the deal. I am worried about the HP keyboard. I know some of the HP laptops have problems with the keyboard working right. I can get a better processor in the 8510p then I can in the T61p. But thats not a deal killer either. The other thing worries me is support. If you own one of these machines and have had to have it fixed or have had issues, I want to hear from you. Was it fixed in a reasonable amount of time? Any issues or problems getting it fixed?

Thanks to all,

 

If you're talking about T7300 or T7500 or T7700....then ......T7300 would be the choice! There are ABSOLUTELY no point in spending few hundred extra for a minimal amount of performance...

The 8510p is the best ''bang for buck''......

Aesthetics are just personal preference really....

 

I suggest 8510p because it has better battery life and the battery does not stick out. If you go with t61 and you want good battery life, you have to buy another battery (9 cell) and it sticks out!

Also stick with T7300 because anything above would cost a lot more for a little bit of improvement. T7500 etc are still considered premium products, so they cost substantially more than T7300.

I was in your position a few days ago, but when I realized how poor the T61 battery is with dedicated graphics, I kinda changed my mind.

I had to deal with HP support once, and it was pretty good. I sent my laptop to them thru Staples (Where I bought it), and they returned it after a week fully repaired, even though they told me it would take 2 weeks.

Also, it seems like some thinkpad models only offer 1 year warranty while all HP business laptops have 3 yr standard internation warranty. So if you had to guess... HP is better sorta.

Lastly, this is the HP forum, so bias is unavoidable. If you want to hear some lenovo folks, head over to the lenovo forum and see what they have to say about the lenovo customer service.

Hope this helps!

 

I suggest the HP too.

Had the worst experience ever with the customer service, quality, warranty and ethics of Lenovo over a T61p. Greatly dissappointed and wasted 4 months over it, with no laptop.

I have the 8510w now and couldn't be hapier. A much better choice.

 

What if any games do you run on that model? I assume you are using geforce drivers.
I actually considered that one too. The ATI driver support had me a bit worried. I still may go that way.

 

Personally, I feel the HP keyboards on their business notebooks are excellent. Definitely worth a try if you haven't typed on one before (they are different to the Pavillion ones).

 

Realflight
Dirt
MS Flight Sim X
F1

All at max res max detail. no probs

 

if you want great international support the DELL latitudes are worth a look as well. If you don't need A LOT of graphics power.

Otherwise i would choose the HP over Lenovo.

 

Lets face it, a black box cannot be ugly, neither a grey one

The HP get 25 mins more than the T61p just because the video card is underclocked, both with half brightness and doing regular stuff.

Othwerise, the T61p would have a bit better battery life than the HP 8510w, which have the same video cards.

And, the 9 cell battery of the T61p sticks out of the back and I can't stand that, but you also have a UltraBay option.

Poor?...3.40 mins with FX 570M and 9 cell battery... who offers more?

True, way biased as usual.

Yeah, and buy an Indian English Dictionary since it will be in handy.

Oh, and tried the new HP's keyboard layout and I don't like it, plus I personally find ThinkPad's keyboards far superioir now. (subjective).

And, Lenovo dropped the ball on the T61p a bit, since it's 6.8 lbs. (6.1 lbs for HP) but so did HP on the keyboard.

I won't buy either of them, why? because I feel so today...(this sentence not to be taken seriously)

 

Having had both the defective low quality T61p and now the 8510w, I can say that HP's keyboard is every bit as good as the Lenovo.

Only places I find fault with the HP are the vent layout...though this seems to be a problem with all LAPTOPS. When you put them on your LAP it blocks the vents. (Lenovo, Dell and many others have the same issue.)
I don't know why, but it seems designers forget that laptops get used on your lap and need vents designed to work that way too.
Would have been nice if it had an express slot for the future SSD drives. Not a big deal, but would have been nice.

 

Oh, yes I forgot, the T61p has one of the best cooling systems you will find in a notebook these days, and it runs relatively cool and quiet.

Unfortunately, that's not the case with the HP, they still can't manage to design a really good cooling system and fan issues are something normal for them. And, why this HP has only one fan, which is noisy under load, is beyond me.

So, the T61p will run more silent and cooler, if you ever heard any noise from it at all. (possible the HDD not the fans)

 

Under a load the the T61p I received a defective screen was noisy too.
As was my Dell 4150.
The Sony SZ650 was clearly the quietest of the bunch, but under a load, you'd hear it too.

I wish they were all quieter

I was reading in one thread that using laptopvideo2go drivers may mess with fan control. Need to check into this more.

 

Lets face it...not many 15.4'' notebooks with dedicated GPUs are gonna be quiet under load...... unless you.....less not go there ok...

@monstermaxx........crap happens....to you, to everyone you just the unlucky one that time... ask yourself how many people have had excellent service with lenovo/IBM ??? Just because of 1 case and because it happened to YOU doesn't mean that they are the worst company in the world, and doesn't mean that it will happen to everyone that buys from Lenovo.

People have had bad experiences with...ummm dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, Sony, Toshiba, you name it.....doesnt mean that all of the are crap does it?

You should probably get over it and accept the fact that you were just unlucky

 

That right there says it all. Yup we're all too familiar with MM on lenovo's forums. Allow me to dissect that quote.

Its strange how MM went with the WSXGA+ panel on the 8510w since the WUXGA was his original choice on the Thinkpad especially after according to him it was 'defective'. How about doing some research first before dumping all that money and then crying about it when it doesnt meet your expectations. Its a known fact that 15.4 WUXGA panels are inherently dimmer than other 15.4's and if you had looked around there were numerous reports that 15.4 wuxga panels had more than normal light leakage.

Of course its never MM's fault right? So all the blame should lie on the panel (its defective) and the company (Lenovo).
personally I would not trust a 15.4 wuxga panel no matter if it was dell,lenovo, Hp.

I can regurgitate everything that MM has posted along with his (alleged) clone accounts ( so we all know its not just MM thats complaining )and will continue to post in the future in a few simple words: 'Lenovo = the devil...everything else=godly'. Continue repeating that in your head as if it were a broken record and you've read everything he's posted past and future.
Lenovo might be a 'Communist chinese' company like MM says but I only see one person here who'll make any communist regime proud.

edit: oh btw the 8510p is a good machine but specwise the T61p is more comparable to the 8510W if you're going with the 570M card

 

You just confirmed what I was saying all along. So lets say its a defect yet you went and order it? Who goes and buys something knowing that what they're getting is going to be defective? If thats not fault I dont know what is.

The difference betwen me and MM is I'm not saying its all MM's fault but merely pointing out something that he is entirely blind to. There's fault everywhere but as soon as I point some blame in his direction I'm suddenly labeled a 'Lenovo lover'. Would a lenovo lover say lenovo's Customer Service is adequate? I would say its totally unsatisfactory. Like most CS there's good days and bad days. Again another point shot down.

As to " the lenovo lovers come a scurying when their lovechild isn't praised." I find that quite hilarious coming from a guy who's never going to associate with anything Lenovo yet practically lives on the Lenovo forums there day and night. oh right I forgot that's what trolls do. Apparently, trolls don't take kindly to it when the tables are turned on them.

There's problems and issues with Thinkpads ( the bezel on the X61s to name just one) and their bad Customer Service but I would rather hear it from someone who doesnt have an axe to grind. That way I know Im getting the straight goods not a troll ..and at the end of the day MM is just a troll and should be treated as such.

edit:Like most trolls, any thread they participate in ends up diminishing the original intent of the OP and for that I apologize to the OP. Good luck on your decision.

 

Well, my brother's T61p should be here soon, and I own an 8510p... If you don't have to buy for say, another month, we might have some comparison info sometime soon

 

It will be at least that long, but before Christmas. I still don't know which way I will go. As I said in almost the first line of the first post, I know either of these machines would be a great choice.

MM is entitled to his opinion. In fact, I can see kind of where he is comming from. But, does he take it a bit too far? probably. When it all comes down to it though, he has a machine he's happy with, so, I fail to see how the customer service was so horrible. Did they take too long? yes. But, they made right with the deal or he would still have a non-functioning laptop. He seems to be too blinded by his rage to see that.

I happen to have spent a lot of years working in the computer industry. We supported and sold HP and IBM hardware at both places I worked at and I know first hand that the hardware that is being sold by these two companies is WAY above average. When I think of "average" I think of Dell or maybe Gateway.

Both of these machines have reviews out. The HP had a great review. But the Thinkpad had several. They were all GLOWING reviews, one site giving a "10" out of a possible "10". So am I going to base my decision on one users missfortune? No.

I want a laptop that's going to play newer games at high settings. Other then that I want to be able to browse and do all the other computer things I do. Something that I can set on my lap.(even if it requires a cool pad). I already have 3 Thinkpads and have been really happy with them. They also have the edge in that the warranty transfers if I deside I want to sell it. That is a HUGE plus. I plan to purchase the extended warranty if I go with the T61p, but the Thinkpad comes in cheaper. That makes it pretty much a wash in the price area.

What I am trying to get is some feedback from current owners of both. So yeah Ackeron, I for sure want to hear from you on what you think when your brother gets his T61p. I want to hear from anyone who knows. Like most people I can't afford to have to do this twice.

 

Thats just your own personal attack.

I bought the 8510w over the T61P because of monsters experience and I am very glad I did.
The Keyboard and the cooling on the 8510w are excellent.(although the space bar seems to have issues if you type very quickly.)

 

Don't comment if you don't know the whole story.

In short:

MonsterMaxx got a defective screen (according to him) from Lenovo...

What would any reasonable person do in this case?
Return and forget about it. Sure, you may make a post about that but that's all.

What did MonsterMaxx do?
Started insulting people around, created multiple accounts in order to agree with himself and support his own theory that Lenovo is the devil itself. Moreover, everyone who said they were happy with their ThinkPads were proclaimed "Lenovo lovers or fanboys"... Oh, and of course, he started an anti-communist revolution or whatever he's been doing and continue now... Also, he was banned due to his obvious stupidity...

Sorry, when you got a lemon (if he really did) you just face the reality, you were unlucky, return it and don't act like a stupid little kid who got the wrong toy, otherwise, you will be treated like an idiot since apparently you deserve it.

As for the 15.4" matte WUXGA screens, all companies use the same suppliers, afaik, only Samsung and LG/Philips make them, when the latter is considered "better", probably these screens aren't great but that's how it is, the same goes for the 14.1" WXGA+ screens but there are more suppliers there. So, no matter whether you get it from HP, Dell or Lenovo you will get one of these screens and it's a matter of luck which one exactly since you can't choose anyway.

Plus, if you do your homework before you buy anything, you will know what you can expect. (especially about the WUXGA screens since they are not something new).

 

Not even the B2 bomber which costs over 2 bill dollars is fault proof therfore research/learn before you speak...

IBM especcially thinpads are at least 20x more known than hp8510p around the world therefore also it is logicall that there are more complaints...

I myself knew thinkpads long before i joined NBR, and knew the reputation but 8510 no i didnt knew that HP made quality notebooks... Only pavillions.

Same goes with dell they receive complaints alot more than hp because they are bought more in industrial sector.

Of course it also depends on usage and luck some people have compaq's,acers that already lived 5 years without trouble..

 

Hardware failure is quite rare in general. Especially if it didn't arrive with it.

I've never had hardware failure with any of my desktops and my crappy basement bargain priced ACER is still going fine. If you can look past the cracked screen casing, loose screws and wonky CD drive............but i dont consider those to be hardware failures, just bad build quality.

 

Yup i agree.....btw compaqs are own by HP now.....but yeah people still thinks compaqs are crap lol

My first computer (family) was a IBM and my first notebook (family notebook as well) was a thinkpad. And my next notebook is probably gonna be a thinkpad if not....a HP/compaq hehe...

 

hp/compaq is a sucess like sony/ericsson

Both were crap when they were alone and now they produce some really nice stuff.

 

Wow, fan boy attack!
I have read the other thread and I know that MM caused some of his own problems with Lenovo.
I never said I bought it because of his negative experiance with the T61P. I bought it because of his positive experiance with the 8510W.
His comments on the experiance of using a 1920 sceen also impacted me.
So I canceld my T61P 1920 res order and got a 8510W with 1680 res.
And I am very happy, and I am thankful to him for his efforts on getting XP on an 8510W.

I first recieved an 8510W with a clear cut defective screen. No signal at all..
Obviosly easy for HP to honor thier support policies(although it was replaced by the vendor not by HP, they said they would replace the laptop). I know that things go wrong with PCs, its how the company responds that matters. I never put alot of credence in MMs tale of woe but, he obviosly wasnt satisfied. When you buy things mail order you want total trust that the vendor will stand behind their product.
And being banned from a forum means nothing. Lots of people who just might disagree with you might have the power to ban you and it really really means nothing.
He has been a valued resource here in the HP forums and you should return to your own forums to attack people.

 

Forget it .. internet connection killed my thread..

 

Sure Rocks, no problem.

Although if you're really looking at the machines in terms of raw performance , the T61p and the 8510w will beat the 8510p.

I don't know if we've had any in depth GPU reports of the Quadro 570m, but I think it's safe to assume its clocks are set to stock. The HD 2600 in the 8510p is grossly underclocked. It runs cooler than the other two but to play next gen games at upper level settings you probably WOULD have to return the card to stock clocks. Granted the HD 2600 can handle that easy, but overclocking (or simply clocking up) isn't for everyone.

In terms of the heat dissipation, I'd say the 8510w would run hottest, followed by the T61p. We don't have any numbers for an o/c'd HD 2600 but I'd guess that it would probably get fairly up there too, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ran hotter than the T61p.

Anyway if you want no hassle + power, I'd say get the T61p, as it's cheaper than the 8510w. The 8510p is certainly the best "deal" IMO, but sooner or later you'll have to pull out that OC program and up the clocks.

As an aside, I was going to buy a T61p too but Lenovo didn't get the ball rolling until September. Other than the fan running all the time (stupid HP...release a bios fix!) and the keyboard flex over the DVD drive driving me crazy, I couldn't be happier

 

Here are the reasons I got my 8510w instead of the T61p:

• Weight and thickness
• 2 usb on both the left and right side
• The slight screen offset in the T61p would annoy me
• The control key is in the same place as desktop keyboards
• The 8-cell battery in the HP does not stick out like the 9-cell in the T61p
• HDMI is on the machine if I ever decide to get a display that can take advantage of it

I know alot of these points are purely cosmetic and can vary from person to person, but atleast for me it is the difference between a machine that either lets me do work or gets in my way of doing it.

Oh, and my Quadro 570M runs at 475/702 which I suspect is default, if it matters. Certainly not slow.

 

Funny, I don't hear my fan at all until I load up something CPU/GPU intensive..
I never understood the flex complaints though. Even my ThinkPad has/had flex.

 

Yeah I don't really hear my fan much until I load something GPU intensive, but then the fan runs forever after that, even when the CPU/HDD are down to low 30s high 20s. I believe it runs off the GPU temperature. I just don't like the fact that my fan runs 24/7 because I can see it burning out in a year or two

My keyboard was actually fine until last week sometime, when I noticed a clicking noise under my backspace key. It's like the keyboard has lifted up off the body (around the DVD drive) slightly since purchase, and pushing down on backspace moves the entire keyboard at that end. Kind of annoying. Someone else reported the same problem and fixed it by putting a small piece of material between the two to re-balance the keyboard. Either way...

 

I never noticed flex on my 8510w keyboard until you pointed it out. But the right of the keyboard esp the end, pgdn and right arrow keys do flex down a bit too much when pressed. Just like you said.
My fan doenst have the issues you point out though, it is quiet and not even a problem after 3 hours of Red Orchestra.
I got the Logitech VX mouse and the middle docking station and except the the flex you pointed out the only thing I would note about my laptop that is a con is the location of the lock hole so tight to the ethernet port. Makes it a bit tight to use.
Other then that the video, heat, noise, track pad, wireless, fingerprint reader, tech support and actual looks are outstanding.
The rubber stopers that protect the LCD are excellent I believe, MacBook pro users want to sue Apple because of the lack of such a small thing.

The little gizmo buttons are great too.

 

From my experience with the 8510w's predecessor (the nw8440), the fan will run nonstop after the machine has warmed up for a few minutes. Intense activities will ramp up the fan, especially anything GPU-related. However, once the machine returns to idle, the fan quickly slows down.

If you think the Kensington lock is too close to the Ethernet port on the 8510w, you haven't used an nw8440 . They're even closer together; so close, in fact, that unless you have a really small lock, it's impossible to use both at the same time.

I've been tempted to pull out those rubber stoppers on my nw8440 because they leave marks on my screen, but since they actually protect the screen from the keyboard deck, I'll leave them in place.

Oh yeah, I love those QuickLaunch buttons too, even if they aren't touch sensitive on mine

 

@Dreamer : I really like your posts now , especially for MM

I read enough about his story want to hear about it no more. He made a big conclusion about Lenovo based on only his case. It's not even reasoning thinking !!!

BTW, he is happy with his HP now and still talking about the story with Lenovo and gets the offended responds. (for what??? I don't know !!!)

 

After reading a lot of your posts you make it seem as if Hp's customer service and products are completely superior to Lenovo's. No company is perfect but I can relate to you waiting 4 months without a computer, having horrible customer service and feeling like a company doesn't take pride in the build of their computers. Right now I am still waiting for my check refund on a dv9000 from Hp for 4 weeks. It was promised by a head case manager "Jerome", that I would receive it before 8th of this month. He said to call him if it didn't arrive and I have been calling since the 8th starting at 5:00pm and I have been persistently doing it up to today. But he doesn't call back regardless of the many messages left. For the record I have had to deal with Hp and their horrible CS for 3 and a half months as well as being without a notebook since this whole situation started in June. CS has given me the run around more than once, I have been frustrated and tired time and time again(As I am writing this I still feel the same way). You aren't the only one. But I don't go around Hp forums trying to sway people away from Hp products, because I know I got a defective computer and CS can some times care less when talking to me. As I have said no company is perfect, many people get full functioning products, and some just don't.


Sorry to change the subject of the thread slightly, but hopefully this changes the minds of people that you might be leading away from Lenovo as well as the original Poster, just because of your problems. You have an Hp laptop, you are happy with it so why keep ruining Lenovo/Ibm sub-forums with the same story?

 

I am aware I'm in the Hp forums, but you frequently post in the Lenovo forums(maybe the number of accounts you've had has confused you to some extent). Furthermore, I have never owned a Lenovo or Ibm computer nor have I claimed to even like Lenovo products. So your making yourself look arrogant as usual. People that want to buy Lenovo's should do so but due to you childish comments(expected from a minor I suppose) you can lead people away from something they want. But I was simply stating that every company has its defects, but I guess you don't read well child.

I guess this quote shows you've got way too much time on your hands:

This also must mean MonsterMaxx is an Hp lover

 

YEAH RIGHT

 

It's getting a little hot in here with all these flames...

 

Played a few hours of Red Orchestra on my 8510w again last night.
No heat build up except the slightest warmth on the left palm rest area.
But when I take my HEADPHONES off..I can hear the fan..lol
But its quite acceptable, nothing major. And I am talking about playing for 2 hours straight.
Even without the native SATA drivers going I am still often one of the first players of 50 to spawn and get my selection of weapons in most cases. That is a great indicator of the power of this laptop.

 

Pongo have you ever taken a temp reading while gaming for a few hours?

 

I have done the touch palm rest, hand over outake fan, touch bottom of chassis test.
I will run the nvidia test next time and let you know.

 

62 was the highest it got.

 

Hmm something might be wrong with my 8510w, as it got up to 80C yesterday as I was playing the UT3 Beta Demo...

 

I personally don't think you can go wrong with either of these laptops. They are the best in the business market easily.

 

no... you're ok... the processor is designed to work at that temperature... and the fans will not go 100% unless it goes over 85... the fact that they can keep a full load machine on lower than maximum fan speeds is super.

i use my nx9420 for rendering... maximum uptime rendering ( both cores 100% ) was TWO weeks non stop @ 80 degrees... HP business line is very good.

 

Do you have it at the original clocks?
Mine is XP Pro, 475 and 702 clock speeds. 163.16 driver

 

Yup, 475/702, in Windows XP Pro, with driver version 101.63. The 80C celcius I read from ATITool, and I assume that it is correct as it shows around 55C when idle. It isn't much of a concern for me as my 7800GTX go I had before would get up to 102C and yet it performed about 10% slower than the 8600M GT I have now.

 

80 for GPU is fine. the throttle down thresh hold is 115celcius, but thats on a desktop card.

80 for a CPU is very high and i would be worried if it got to that. but thats not the case for you.

 

do you know if 3dsmax 9, autocad 2007 and CS3 work ok on the 64bit vista?

 

My idle seems to be 51.
I am using NVmonitor, the utility that came with the driver

 

Only made it to 64 playing oblivion at 1200X800 4AA.

 

Whats the importance of express card slot 54/34, bcoz 8510 doesn't have it,
also how good is the draft N wireless card bcoz 8510 doesn't have it either.

If these are of any concern then t61 gains on these.