Are DV7 + Nvidia GPUs ticking bombs?

I'm testing my new DV7 (P7350 cpu) with a lowly Nvidia 9200M GS and notice that the fan is always running at a noisy medium-high speed. My GPU idles at 36C and core 38C. If I set "fan always on" to 'disabled' in BIOS, the computer is silent until the GPU temps reach 60C or so and CPU high 50's C. IMO, this is too hot and there is no compromise in the fan logic between too hot and noisy over-cooling.

By now, I'm sure everyone has seen this story on Nvidia's problems:\ http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad

Even though the 9200M is not supposed to be affected, it is still too new to know for sure so I'm wondering if HP is cranking up the fan speed just to be safe. I would be very scared about having a DV7 with the 9600 GPU as this is clearly on the list of potentially defective GPUs.

In contrast, I am also testing the 17" HP 6830s laptop from their business line which has the P8400 2.26 GHz 1066 fsb + ATI HD 3430 GPU. This laptop is silent and idles in the low 30's celsius with NO fan running and only comes on for a brief moment when temps rise to the high 40s. It is so much quieter.

I know the DV7 has a lot more features, but I'd hate for it to die just outside the 1 yr warranty. Sure you could go for an extended warranty, but it's still a huge hassle to get it fixed. Plus the constant fan noise is unacceptable IMO and turning it off in BIOS is too risky.

Comments?

 

I was in the same situation as you!

As part of a replacement for my dead HP, my local electronics store offered me the choice between a Dell (T8100, ATI 3450) and an HP (P7350, Nvidia 9200M GS); even though I knew that the HP had a significantly better CPU, I decided to not take my chances as my previous laptop's Nvidia GPU had failed. I have no regrets for choosing a machine with a little less power. But, the choice really is yours; one way or the other though, more heat = less reliable.

 

when gaming, my gpu does not reach anything over 71C - and that's after about 1 hour.

i think heat worries are only under extreme conditions like someone leaving their laptop on a bed/blanket while gaming or in a really really hot room, etc.

maybe they are timebombs, i dont know. but i know that caring for your machine is also preventative which is why i monitor temps all the time - even though i dont have any heat issues. i noticed that when gaming, my gpu went to 71c (and that was only once. it usually stays around 69/70.) so i simply keep an eye on it.

as for hard drive - i wish my hard drive had a temp sensor because, as of now, i know my wristpad gets hot but i dont know the temp on the HD =/

i will be buying 500gb drives once the price goes down (in a year or so) so, either way, im swapping out the drive. this also eliminates the possibilty of the drive simply dying on me.

yeah, im really paranoid at times.

 

also look at this:

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19929

people with dell's saying they're getting 80C+ or even 90C+

to me, that's insane. BUT - if the machines are running fine for them, if our HPs get to 70c, I dont see that as a huge problem. at least for me - none of my temps (acpi, core 1, core 2 OR gpu) has ever gotten over 70/71c - and that's while gaming.

i honestly think this is being blown out of proportion. maybe a couple of people got lemons that run too hot, etc , but i doubt this is a majority of the users.


i too was nervous/caught up in the hype before i got my dv7t after reading people saying that their machines get hot, etc. but after having my unit, i concluded that those were a very small minority of the cases and, in fact, even trying to get my temps to go HIGH, i could never come close to what they were reporting. so myth debunked.

 

timesquared what program are you using t monitor temps? I know that hwmonitor shows hard drive temps.

 

I use hwmonitor v1.11, 64-bit. ( http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php )

on the first dv7t i had, i used this same version of hwmonitor and it DID show the hd temp. that was a toshiba hard drive.

i returned that unit (had the t9400 proc) to get a model with the t9600 proc

on my current dv7t, the harddrive is a fujitsu, and the temp does not appear.

so the reason i am not seeing the hd temp is because of the drive itself, i conclude, and not the software.

 

I'm using the DV7 to post this and am not running anything else. But the fan is spinning like crazy and is noisy as hell. Maybe most of the new generation is hard of hearing from abusing their Ipods , but I can't believe most users find this acceptable for a 2008 model in a non-gaming mode. This would ruin the experience for me when watching the quieter parts of a movie.

The DV7 was supposed to replace my super quiet desktop and I'm not so sure I can tolerate this fan noise so close to my ears. I'm really wanting to like this but it's difficult. I just hope this forum isn't flooded with rants and calls for class action suits when the Nvidia GPUs start failing just after a year.

 

Desi it's not really blown out of proportion when you have the model with the 9200M GS and you physically see the temps, hence why mine is going back, I took pics of and posted of the OEM Heatsink assembly, and all I can say is CHEAP, What the hell were they thinking when they put these things together? Oh I know...."Let's ship this overpriced plastic crap out ASAP, so what if the GPU fails in 13 months, after the normal warranty has run out? Then we charge them to ship the laptop to us, and then we charge them $700+ to replace the GPU and Motherboard, It's a pathetic example of how cheap HP has become, Dell and others seem to learn from their mistakes, However HP Just seems to continue to profit and learn 0 from theirs, 6 months from now when your GPU Fails, And I mean those with the 9200M GS, I want you to look back at these posts and read these simple words "I TOLD YOU SO!"

 

To be fair, I think more than HP will be affected since the Nvidia 9xxx GPUs are so prevalent. In fact, it makes laptop shopping difficult because all the loaded, fully featured models used these GPUs.

What bugs me the most is that the faster P8400 business model is able to sustain the same mid 30 degree temps at idle with no fan running whereas the DV7's P7530 needs to run the fan at med-high for the same temperature. Maybe you are right about HP cutting corners on the heatsink assembly.

I wonder if the business models (even low end like mine) are made to a higher standard of reliability. I noticed the DV7 battery cells are made in Korea whereas the business model cells are made in Japan. The business model has a 3d acceleratometer for '3D driveguard' to protect against shocks to the hard drive whereas the DV7 has 'Protectsmart' which is supposed to do the same thing. But why not call them the same name if they are truly the same?

 

I am not concerned. First, NVIDIA already stated the problem was fixed on newer products and the HP DV7T came out in August. Also, my HP DV7T w/ Geforce 9600M GT runs pretty cool. I actually purchased a Dell Studio 17 prior to purchasing the HP DV7T but returned it as the Dell Studio 17 laptop was just too hot when I placed it on my laptop and that laptop had an ATI card.

 

Yeah, but it appears that HP might be concerned and they know better. Why else would they configure the fan to run ALL the time if they are not covering their a$$? What other non-Nvidia laptop keeps the fan running all the time? I think HP doesn't trust NVidia. Why should we?

 

JH2 ----------

is the fan noise as high as it gets when the machine is first powered on? my fan spins but i can only hear it if i put my ear to the laptop - i found it to be very quiet.

if your fan is on the high speed most of the time, then there is a problem,.

 

No. When you first turn it on, the fan does go high for a brief moment, then reduces in speed. After that, it stays at a medium-high state, but definitely not at that high speed when you first power up.

What's your core and gpu idle temperature if you just let the laptop sit there for awhile?

Is there a utility to report fan rpms on a laptop? assuming it has a sensor...

 

my idle temps ---

i am not sure about the utility to report fan RPMs but i am sure one exists.

the one thing i noticed is that my gpu temps are always higher (by 15-20 degrees F) than any of my other temps - core 0, core 1, or acpi. but, while higher, when idling or playing games, they never approach near fatal temps. lol.

the highest temp i have had on my computer in the lat 3 weeks i've had it was 71C and that was after an hour of playing unreal. and that was only once. usually it stays between 69/70 while gaming.

 

those idle temps match mine except that my 9200M gpu is 36C and Western Digital HD is 34C. IMO, my fan is working too hard for those average-low temps.

 

keep in mind that this is a laptop and that it has to work harder to keep temps low..... but still - i can barely hear the fan if im surfing/on the web/using excel, etc. so i dont know if it's an issue with ur laptop or expected behavior...

the only time the fan gets audible is maybe if im doing a lot of stuff/copying gigs of crap/etc in which case the fan goes on (medium setting, i guess? it's definitely not as loud as when you turn it on but not quiet as if im doing nothign) and then goes off after im done with the copy. i have not had it stay on for extended periods.

 

My idle temps are a lot like yours timesquare, but when gaming or running 3dmark I can get upwards of 76-80 C easily.

 

Here are my temps after playing Resident Evil 4 in a room that's currently 67 degrees Farenheit, with the AC On Laptop Elevated on a cooler, with the cooler elevated on 4 2liter caps, see results and draw your own conclusion:

 

yeah, who knows. Keep in mind I'm comparing my Dv7 to a brand new Hp 17" P8400 business laptop with ATI GPU. That one took 10 minutes from a cold boot to reach 42C core (44C GPU) with NO fan. It then gently turned on the fan at slow speed for 30 seconds to bring the temps down to 38C and immediately shut the fan down resulting in pure silence. If I used a cooler on the P8400, I'm sure the fan will never kick in. IMO, that's how a modern laptop should behave. The 250G Hitachi drive stays at 29C.

 

^ hmm.... then i wonder also why there is such a large discrepancy in the figures...

COBRA - your readings are awesome! i wish mine stayed that cool after playing for a while.



PS - something interesting/awesome - take a look at this dudes custom laptop cooler --

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=300297

after seeing that, i wana go make one now :-D

 

If you look Desi you'll see how hot it got in game

 

I've had my dv7t for five days and the fan noise is by far the most audible and distracting that I've ever experienced! I changed the BIOS setting to disable 'Always On' but it still runs most of the time (which is needed because the ambient heat from the wrist rest is noticeable even from 18 inches away! It has the 2.26GHz P8400 and nVIDIA 9600M GT graphics card, the latter being the source of most of my excessive heat.

It's just not acceptable, in my opinion, for a $1200 (after 30% off) notebook. I called for my Return Authorization yesterday and it's going back on Monday for a refund!

I'm starting to wonder if I should just settle for a system with the Intel GMA X4500 integrated graphics. I would like some graphics horsepower for video projects and other graphics-heavy tasks...but not if it means having a notebook that doubles as a Hibachi!!!

 

I think that's a smart move. I would be very hesitant about buying a DV7 with a 9600 card at this point. There is just too much uncertainty about longevity of the GPU past the warranty period.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/12/nvidia-g92-and-g94-gpus-failing-too/

I would go Intel or ATI for now just to be safe until this Nvidia thing blows over. There's too much competition these days to put up with hot palm rests and noisy fans. I wish HP had invested more on 'under the hood' rather than on the 'eye appeal' of chrome and shiny bits. That's why I went with the purposeful HP business model equipped with the P8400 and completely satin black like a laptop Batman or Darth Vader would use . It is soo much quieter and cooler all around.

Things are not looking good for Nvidia. It looks like this overheating fiasco is going to cost them $196M:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/18/nvidia-cuts-65-percent-of-its-workforce/?ref=technology

 

Yes, they've allocated $196 million to cover their alleged estimate of the failures....the formula used to calculate this figure is literally anybody's guess! This will only cover the failures that are submitted to them from the notebook manufacturers....and that will require HP and DELL to readily accept out-of-warranty systems and assume the potential risk (loss) if nVIDIA doesn't pay!

Sadly, some 18 to 24 month old laptops will just get tossed because their warranties have expired. Many average owners will never know they still hav a valid claim! Then some day, nVIDIA will simply re-recognize the portion of the $196 million that isn't paid in claims as revenue.

The $196 million figure is likely based on a conservative estimate of how many people will actually go thru the process and demand restitution. An ethical company interested in earning their customers trust and maintaining "good faith" would have issued a recall by now....

Instead of acknowledging that X, Y and Z are defective and correcting the problem, they're taking a "wait and see" approach. The latter relies on an infinite number of variables (customer ignorance, people too busy to go thru the claims process, etc...) to keep their cost to a minimum even though they should fix every single unit.

Condensed version- "Lets sit back and wait for people to beg us to fix our faulty product.....and we'll screw the ones who don't come begging!"

ATI is making me feel warm and fuzzy in comparison.....

 

So very true. My Go 7600 got bust today. I always thought that my 1 year warranty was long over. Only after contacting HP Tech Support did I know that it has been extended to November 2008. I will be definitely going for ATI next time I buy a notebook.