Arrived! tx2500z

http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showthread.php?t=17995
The tx2500z is the updated tx2000 series with the new Puma chipset from AMD, which includes an ATI HD 3200 with a "supposed" (unconfirmed) 64MB of SidePort memory.

Operating System: Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
Processor: AMD Turion X2 Ultra ZM-86 (2.4 GHz)
Display: 12.1" WXGA HP BrightView Widescreen (1280 x 800) w/Integrated Touch-screen
Memory: 3GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
Personalization: HP Imprint Finish (Echo) + Microphone + Fingerprint Reader + Webcam
Networking: Wireless LAN 802.11a/b/g/n
Hard Drive: 160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
CD/DVD Drive: SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
Battery: 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Dimensions (estimated): 8.82 (L) x 12.05 (W) x 1.23 (min H)/1.52" (max H)
Weight (estimated): 4.59lbs​

Initial Impressions
1. Fan noise is quite noticeable most of the time. I don't know the exact temperature of the chipset yet. At the highest speed it's very loud. Don't plan on gaming in a quiet area (e.g. library).
2. SpeedFan, Sandra, and Hmonitor do not detect any sensors, which is likely due to the new chipset. Need to find a new way to measure temperature.
3. Bloat, too much of it. Already there is more installed in my Start menu than my everyday PC. Maybe I'm just really organized... or there's too much bloatware.
4. Screen is noticeably grainy, as expected. Certain angles are better than others, as are certain colors. Grain is bad with whites, considerably better with darker colors. Good vertical viewing angle assuming no direct lighting. Horrendous horizontal viewing angles - compensated by the ability to rotate the screen.
5. Running 3DMark05 right now. Fan just kicked to high gear but laptop, including the bottom, remains only slightly warm. The plastic is good at hiding the heat from the keyboard and palm areas. But where is this heat going? Certainly not all of it out the exhaust. Maybe that is why it reaches 96 degrees in 3DMark06?
6. PCMark05 failed, three times. Web Page rendering and XP HDD startup failed. Required patching. Benchmark is below - slightly faster than tx2000z but still 500 points shy of an Dell M1330.
7. Most of the heat is concentrated to the top right corner of the laptop, where the exhaust fan is located. Hard drive spin causes slight warmth on the right palm rest. Otherwise, the laptop is relatively cool. Even the bottom of the notebook is only warm, never hot.
8. About 1/3 of the task bar is filled with icons. This PC needs a reformat, bad. I will reformat with Vista 32-bit instead of 64-bit. Benchmark scores should improve slightly should I ever attempt to redo them.
9. IE crashed three times, once for every score I submitted to ORB. Also crashed while trying to download Firefox from getfirefox.com. If this is the typical Vista experience out-of-box, nI can see why everyone hates it.
10. HP Recovery Manager (to make your one recovery disc) is the slowest POS ever. 30 minutes just create the files. Recovery disc spans two DVD-Rs... and stupidly spans two DVD-DLs also (you'll have about 700MB on your second disc I'd say).
11. Screen is virtually unviewable in the daylight. The problem lies with reflection more so than glare. I purchased a Photodon anti-reflect/high contrast screen protector. I'll let you guys know how it goes - should arrive Friday or earlier.

CPU-Z v1.45


GPU-Z

For those of you wondering, I still cannot confirm whether there is 64MB of SidePort memory. There are no existing tools that I know of that is able to both accurately detect the chipset AND be able to differentiate between SidePort and shared meory. I'm welcome to any ideas, I would like to know myself.

CPUID Hardware Monitor (temperatures)
During 3DMark06 test

Temperatures range from 64 degrees to 97 degrees, which is high. But these are not normal circumstances and normal operations have lower temperatures. Also, it is unknown which sensor this is reading from - the GPU or CPU. Typically GPUs runs hotter. Although it being listed under ACPI leads me to believe it is the CPU, which is a bit scary. 97 degrees won't kill the processor instantly, but will shorten the life span over time. Maybe it's time to order a 3 year warranty .

SuperPi Mod v1.5 XS

Supposedly AMD processors typically run SuperPi slower due to less L2 cache. But the Puma chipset has significantly raised the L2 cache to be nearly on par with C2D processors. Yet this processor STILL manages to run slower than most C2D processors - almost equivalent to previous generation Turions.

HDTune v2.55

320GB drive seems to run faster than the 160GB drive - about 10 MB/sec average transfer rate greater.

Windows Experience Index

It was suggested that my WEI score would be improved if I were to run dual channel with equivalent stick of RAM. This is true, as I am running in asynchronous mode. Maybe that is how the Australian version manager 4.0 WEI - not due to SidePort at all.

3DMark05: 2914 (HP tx2000 3DMark05: 636)


3DMark06: 1532 (Dell M 1330 3DMark 06: 1336)

Previous score on an out-of-box Vista 64-bit I was able to attain a 3DM06 score of 1520. After a clean install with Vista 32-bit, I was able to achieve 1532 using the bundled drivers. I believe if I can use updated drivers (8.6 rather than the included 8.3(4?)) I may get even more significant gains. However, at this time PowerPlay is broken under the newer drivers. Goes to show there is little benefit to using 64-bit Vista right now.

PCMark05: 3875
No link, cannot be published as Radeon HD 3200 is not recognized by ORB.
PCMark05 scores improved slightly over the tx2000 but still about 500 points less than the M1330. Not sure where the bottle neck is, but I don't believe it has to do with the new IGP, which is simply amazing.

None of the 3DMark tests can published because ORB does not recognize the new Radeon HD 3200 IGP. Notice the Generic VGA

 

Looking very impressive. Would be great if you cleaned up all the junk and ran the benchmarks again.
Which M1330 review did you look at?

The one I saw scored 1408 with a T7300(2.0 Ghz) and the 8400M GS. http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3826 Looks like the ATI3200's is quite a huge improvement over other integrated cards. You do have a better processor though.
Good job so far!

 

Yep! I plan to at least run 3DMark 2006 again. This has already proven to be the fastest tablet out, so no need to run '05 again. Don't understand why PCMark05 is failing, maybe due to Vista x64? I'll reinstall in 32-bit mode and run some tests again. Scores should be higher with the better drivers too.

I was using the review on the front page as reference:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3898&review=Dell+XPS+M1330

 

Yea those 3dmark scores are incredible for an igp. I am however a little disappointed by the superpi score. Can you run wprime as well since it works better with a dual core processor than superpi?

 

Pc Mark failed on my U6 because it was not patched. Look for a patch out there for Vista 32 or Vista 64. It will work afterwards.

You have impressing scores. Your WEI is higher than mine . Mine seems to be faster in 3DMark.

 

scores are pretty impressive

 

How do you like the build/finish?

Judging from 3dmark06, the IGP in this baby isn't that far behind a 8400M GS. Looking very impressive.

Ingame benchmarks coming up?

 

Haha, I actually don't own many games. I do have Team Fortress 2 and Warcraft 3 =).

The build is very solid. There is no flex on the left palm rest but non on the screen. Keyboard has a nice feel, nice audio. Picks up finger prints and smudges like crazzzy.

 

Oh wow, that HD 3200 sure packs a punch. Thanks for the info. In-game framerates would be much appreciated.

 

Oh crap you go to davis too?

Go Aggs

 

Circuit City:
HP Pavilion tx2510us
$1049.99 after rebate

• AMD Turion 64 X2 ZM-80 (2.1GHz & 2MB L2 cache)
• 12.1" w/Digitizer & touchscreen
• 3GB RAM
• 250GB (5400 RPM) hard drive
• 802.11abgn (Draft N) wireless
• ATI Mobility Radeon HD3200 graphics with 64MB Display Cache
• 5-in-1 Memory card reader
• Built-in Bluetooth
• Fingerprint reader
• Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit w/SP1

Circuit City link

Best Buy
HP Pavilion TX2525NR
Current sell price: $1049.99
Best Buy sku: 8893058

• AMD Turion™ X2 Dual-Core Mobile RM-70 (2.0GHz & 1MB L2 cache)
• 12.1" w/Digitizer & touchscreen
• 3GB RAM
• 250GB (5400 RPM) Hard Drive
• 802.11abgn (Draft N) wireless
• Lightscribe Super Multi DVD Writer
• ATI Mobility Radeon HD3200 graphics with 64MB Display Cache
• 5-in-1 Memory card reader
• Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit
• Fingerprint reader​

Best Buy Link coming soon

 

Thats awesome, blksnake. I think I'll definitely go to Circuit City and Best Buy tonight to look at them.

 

Here's my $0.02 on the tx2500z:

• The fan noise is noticeable, and you'll definitely hear it in a quiet room. It pretty much runs all the time, at various speeds.
  
  
• The fan area gets hot if you do CPU-intensive tasks like games. Sometimes, I think it even gets too hot to touch. The 8-cell battery option is nice, here, as it elevates the back/bottom of the laptop, which should help cooling. There are lots of vents on the bottom.
  
  
• The screen isn't so much grainy as it is "hazy". It's not as nice as other displays, but I don't think it's bad. I think it's perfectly usable, as long as you don't go anywhere near sunlight. For me, a bigger problem is the glare from the glossy screen -- it's just plain nasty. This, however, is common to virtually all glossy screens, and not just to the tx2500z.
  
  
• After doing a windows update, I got the dreaded, "Configuring updates: stage 3 of 3" hang and "infinite" reboot. It seems that my tx2500z came with KB935509 and KB937287 preinstalled, and windows update installed KB938371. I was able to get out of the reboot loop by booting into safe mode without networking, where stage 3 finally completed after a long wait. I didn't realize how borked vista is, but I do now.
  
  
• The 320GB hard disk can get hot -- so much so, that the area below your right hand can sometimes get uncomfortably hot (not too hot to touch, just uncomfortably hot). Between this and the hot fan, I wonder about the long-term reliability (fortunately, I got the 3-year warranty).
  
  
• Interestingly, my display has a plastic logo that says, "HP Pavilion tx 2000", but the serial number sticker on the bottom says, "HP Pavilion tx2500". Vista reports that the CPU is an "AMD Turion(tm) X2 Ultra Dual-Core Mobile Processor ZM-82 (2.2 GHz)", which is what I ordered, and so this appears to be a case of just the wrong plastic part on the display. I'm not going to return the laptop for something like this.
  
  
• Even after calibration, the writing point of the pen is still, oh, ~1.5mm away from the pen tip, which makes writing annoying. For example, in the windows journal application, it's hard to write on the lines because of this. Perhaps, I'll get used to it.
  
  
• This is my first vista system (ultimate, 64-bit), and, boy, does it feel slow. My old XP laptop with half the memory ran noticeably faster than the tx2500z. So far, I've turned off indexing and the sidebar, and I need to do something about aero, next. (Side note: it sucks that google desktop is not available for 64-bit windows.)

 

I was hoping the new chip set ran cooler than the turion 64..
not that it's too hot, but it would have been nice to be CD2 cool....

 

Hehe...all tx2500 have the same tx2000 sticker. So, you got the right sticker/laptop. The tx2500 is a refresh thats why it got the tx25xx model designation instead of a totally different model number.

 

Hi,
Try Lavalys EVEREST Ultimate Edition 30-day trial (LINK) to give you an accurate CPU reading. I evaluated the new 13.3" Toshiba notebook (LINK) based on the same platform and the CPU temps were much lower (~42C) at idle. I would honestly be surprised if the CPU temps went past 60C under load. Worth checking out at least...

Thanks for sharing your findings!

 

If that's true, that's a really poor decision on HP's part. I imagine that HP is going to get a lot of unnecessary support calls and returns because of that. I'll bet that the brick-and-mortar stores are going to hate this, because many people will probably just look at the "tx2000" label and return it.

In many peoples' opinion, "tx2500" is a different model number than "tx2000".

 

Yeah but on the other hand the chassis between the tx2000 and the tx2500 is the same and having two different model numbers for systems which look the same might also be confusing for some. In any case this is std procedure it seems for HP, the previous dv2000/dv6000/dv9000 and the dv2500/dv6500/dv9500 all had the same sticker issue.

 

I wrote:

Just FYI, I just ran a game for a few minutes, and then measured some temperatures using an IR thermometer:

• The right-wrist-rest area (to the right of the trackpad), above the hard disk, reached a max temp of just below 110 deg.F. The average was probably around 100-105 deg.F. The game doesn't do a lot of disk I/O, and so these temperatures could be "typical".
  
  
• The upper-right area above the keyboard, just above the main fan/heatsink, reached a max temp just below 120 deg.F.
  
  
• The main/fan heatsink ports reached a max temp in the 130-140 deg.F range, although this might have been the temperature of the heat sink fins just inside the exit ports.

You really want to keep some clearance around the main fan cooling ports. Personally, I'd try to keep the area around the ports clear for at least 5-6 inches.

 

Yep, these temps are ridiculous. I'm reading the same high temps using HWMonitor. Range from 42c to 95C. Averages 60c on balanced plugged in. 48c-53c on batt in balanced mode.

Running Wprime (2 threads) using the stability test, high temp was 95c after 2 minutes running it. That's the CPU's design max. So I stopped the test after 4 mins.

ZM-80, 2.1GHz

I'm not sure if I should keep this unit given these high temps. AMD really failed to deliver in the heat department and HP failed to come up with a better cooling solution.

 

Where is this information on AMD's site? I've searched, but AMD's site is pretty sparse on mobile CPU info, and what little there is, is either old or for other processors in general.

I tried the wprime stability test on my tx2500z w/zm-82 cpu (~20 min, 4 threads), and the temps stayed at 86C (187F), but went up to 89C after the test (fan slowed down). Ambient temp was around 78F, w/~50%RH. The laptop temperatures were similar to what I've posted earlier, but were sometimes a couple of degrees higher.

However, another thing that concerns me is the temperature of the AC power adapter: during the test, parts of the main adapter case hit 60C (140F) and up (battery being charged). That's pretty high. This was measured with the adapter on a bare wood floor,

 

Information is based on the Turion series just before this one. Can't imagine the upped the max operating temperature.

Anyway, as a guide, I looked at this site:

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/AM...ogy TL-60 - TMDTL60HAX5CT (TMDTL60CTWOF).html

They don't have the Turion Ultras up yet.


Also I noticed the same thing about the power adapter.

I think I may have a poorly placed thermal pad on the CPU. May have to open 'er up and take a peak.

 

Thanks.

I also measured the power consumption with the AC adapter:

• At "idle" (if you can call running windows defender, "idle"), the power usage would bounce around the 30-40W range, and occasionally spike up to the ~50W range (this is with a fully-charged battery).
• With wprime running (stability, 4 threads), the power usage was just under 70W.

I imagine that the power usage would be even higher if the battery was also being charged.

 

Explains why the adapter gets so warm. It's under rated. They should have supplied the unit with a 90W supply. Think I might look into getting one at that rating.

Good test. I have to get one of those watt measuring devices.

 

Oh, #$%^&*()!!! WTF?

Sigh, I had assumed that HP shipped a 90W adapter, as that's what they're selling as an accessory. However, like you (I imagine), I just took a look at my adapter: 65W. Grrr.

And I was wondering why the AC adapter that came with the xb3000 base didn't seem to get as nasty hot ....

 

65W should be adequate. I have to wonder whether HP set the CPU voltages correctly in the BIOS? Something is stressing that power supply more than it ought to. I could swear that my dv9000z has a 65W brick and the tx2500z should be significantly more power efficient than that. What does CPU-Z say your core voltage is at idle and full speed?

 

Core VlD = .8v@ idle.


1.1 V @ full speed

 

Same here:

Idle: 0.8V, ~550MHz
Loaded: 1.1V, ~2.2GHz

The core CPU temp hit ~93C during the load test, but touched upon 95C sometime during the day. This was in a spot with only "OK" airflow, but with 6+" of space around the fan and some ambient temp lower than 78F (I think -- I need to find a thermometer).

Does anyone know of a (free) CPU temperature monitoring program that either graphs the temperature vs time, or saves the data in a logfile?

 

That looks right, about the same as a Turion X2... hmm. See if HWMonitor agrees, or shows any odd readings?

 

The CPU temps came from HWMonitor. On the tx2500z, it only displays the two core temperatures and some mysterious "THRM" temperature, which typically tracks the CPU temps, and is within a couple of degrees or so.

 

Just ran Wprime 2 threads, stability test, for 7 minutes and topped at 96C at which time I stopped the test. Got to 25% complete. Ambient was 78Deg F. Humidity 53%. Open clearance around the unit.

The good news is that I have no applications that I use on a day to day basis that would stress the CPU to that degree. Daily temps, on batt with CPU max @ 50% range from mid/high 40's C to mid 50's C.

If AMD comes out with another chip that's socket S1 with lower thermals, a die shrink even, I'm there.

 

Do the voltage readings look right in HWMonitor, or can HWMonitor read voltages yet?

dv5z users haven't reported anything like this yet and it's basically the same thing in a 15.4" chassis so I'm very puzzled. Something is causing abnormally high power consumption.

 

No voltages yet in HWmonitor.

 

I am not so sure that HWMonitor is reading the correct temps. The reason is that both cores seem to show the same temps all the time even when I set affinity in SuperPi so that it runs only on a single core rather than the two. Doing this makes only one core to run at max while the other idles at 600Mhz unlike the older Turions where both cores ran at the same speed and voltage but the temp readings from HWMonitor are the same for both cores. There might not be a big difference but I was expecting some variation given the difference in voltages and speed. AMD did change the thermal diodes in Griffin and I dont know if HWmonitor is reading the correct temperatures.

 

HWMonitor can't do a whole lot on the tx2500z:

 

Hmm, the min and max temps in MrQ's screenshot are literally twice what they should be, which makes me suspect that HWMonitor guessed the divisor wrong?

 

MrQ, try Lavalys Everest. See if the temps reported are similar to HWMonitor.

 

It doesnt show any core temperatures but only reports the same temperatures as the 'ACPI' section in HWMonitor.

 

That could be, but it's probably using a method that others are using. I recently tried booting an Ubuntu live CD, and it just kept on turning off the system. My guess is that it thought that the CPU temps were too high, and turned off the system as a safety precaution. I tried pointing my IR thermometer into the cooling port, and the highest temperature I could measure was in the 150-160F (~65-71C) range (while running wprime). If the fan-cooled heatsink gets that hot, I can believe that the die temps are 80-90C.

Also, the "high" power usage (nearly 70W with high CPU load) doesn't seem to be a fluke. I just went around the house, measuring the power usage of various incandescent and fluorescent lamps, and, if anything, my watt-meter seemed to be reading 3-5W low.

 

Sounds like something's wrong with the notebook and/or power brick then. There's no way it should be stressing a 65W power brick.

 

It's not the power brick. I've tested this with the original 65W brick, and a 90W brick that came with an xb3000. The results are consistent.

As this appears to affect at least 3 different laptops (mine, the OP's, and 2.0's), I'd say that this is one of:

• Functioning "as designed". Now, we may have opinions as to whether or not the design is correct, but that's another discussion.
  
  
• Manufacturing defect.

Here's another report of a hot tx2500z: http://www.studentbuyingguide.com/2008/07/hp-tx2500z-review/
This, however, was with a 2.4GHz processor, which no longer seems to be available. Perhaps the generated heat is why? Note that I'm using a 2.2GHz one (ZM-82).

 

Well, the dv5z is a different design (the exhaust port is on the other side of the case). Perhaps a bigger/better heatsink/fan was used on that one? As for power -- perhaps, no one here has measured it, yet?

 

Yeah, the tx2500 runs very hot. i can confirm this as well. Just surfing the web makes the fan run at medium and medium high levels. Even if HWmonitor is a bit off the temperatures are still very high. IMO, it looks AMD is just not ready for use in laptops 14" or under. It runs almost silent and the heat is under control on battery but when plugged the fan noise is very annoying. Just surfing NBR causes the fan to jump from low to medium/medium high. Credit to the fans they do a good job of moving the heat out, the chassis doesn't heat up as much I expected it would have running at these temperatures.

I am considering returning mine but the fact is I really cannot find anything to replace it with at under $1000. The rest of the convertibles are not even in the same range except for the Gateway C142xl but it weighs 6.3lbs and not really portable. I love my tx2500 except for the fan noise which is caused by the heat put out by the system.

 

@miner,

I thought the same thing. I was going to return mine. But then I thought about how little I paid and that I mostly run on battery. So heat and noise won't be an issue. I'm not going to watch movies or play games on it as I have an HDX for that. Shame that the 3200 Radeon goes mostly to waste, but it runs Aero great. So it's all good in the end.

Plus, one can adjust the power plan & CPU max when on wall power to keep things under 70° C.

In the near future, I might buy a new heat-sink from HP and lap it. Then use Arctic Ceramic.

 

HP has some explaining to do. There's no reason for a 2.2GHz Turion Ultra to run hotter than a 2.2GHz Turion X2 in the tx2000, plus the NVIDIA chipset in the old generation burned more power than the 55nm AMD780M. This sounds like a voltage regulation problem since the 65W power brick is struggling. If we're lucky a BIOS update will fix it, if not... oh boy. Since the exhaust is hot I think the cooling system is doing its job.

 

I agree.. I almost want to say my tx2500z runs even HOTTER than my old tx2000z.

 

It seems there is a slight heat problem. Do people think RM-70 is a better choice then? Or ZM-80?

Performance-wise, what are the differences between RM-70 and the Ultra options ZM-80/82 other than the L2 cache and the clock frequency? There doesn't seem to be much. I guess that shows in the slight price difference between RM-70 and ZM-80 +$50, ZM-82 +$100.

 

Yeah, I'm keeping mine, too. However, I just can't recommend this to anyone -- I think it has just too many issues. Here are some more comments:

• The laptop seems to generate significantly more heat when plugged in, likely due to the more aggressive performance settings used. I've found that lowering the "Minimum processor state" from 100% to 5% (when plugged in) seems to lower the temps by a couple degrees or so (when idle). Not much, but every little bit helps. Bleah.
  
  
• The pen input was driving me crazy until I disabled finger touch input. When I write, I lift the pen up while thinking, while resting my palm on the display. Unfortunately, I'd lift up the pen tip more than the minimum ~1" needed to prevent any "palm input" from being registered (I'd often accidentally draw short line segments or dots with my palm while thinking).
  
  
• The touchpad also drives me crazy (I've used other laptops with touchpads without problems). No matter how I set the touchpad sensitivity options, resting my palm on the touchpad often causes the mouse to move or, worse still, scroll the current window. I used to think that a button to disable the touchpad was a questionable feature; however, this laptop certainly needs it.
  
  
• The touchpad mouse buttons also drive me crazy. Because they're slightly inset, the top of a mouse button/bottom button edge feels just like the area above the mouse button/top button edge (well, they're not exactly the same, but they feel close enough to me). As a result, I often find myself pressing the area just above a button, instead of the button itself. I hope I get used to this, because it's maddening in the meantime.
  
  
• I sometimes use both hands on the touchpad: left hand for the mouse buttons, right hand for the cursor. Unfortunately, because I often accidentally press the area above a mouse button, the touchpad sometimes thinks I have two fingers on the touchpad simultaneously (the area above the mouse button is close to the bottom of the touchpad). This can result in the warping of the mouse cursor from one part of the screen to another (for me, generally to somewhere in the bottom left of the screen).
  
  
• Personally, I think the included windows journal application is not terribly useful. Perhaps I haven't yet figured it out, but it appears that the only way to insert a new note page is to insert one before the current one, which results in the pages being in reversed order. There appears to be no way to rearrange pages, and so this application seems to be best suited for creating single-page notes only. It appears that, if you really want to take full advantage of the tablet PC capability, you need to buy something like OneNote (OneNote, however, doesn't seem to fully recognize the pen eraser as an eraser).
  
  

 

Maybe, but I think some people will disagree on whether or not it's really sufficient. Take a look at miner's HWMonitor's screenshot: his max cpu temp is 103C, which is, I believe, above the max design temp.

 

MrQ- sorry to hear about all your problems with the mouse/mouse pad. Personally, I love the mouse pad and I don't seem to run in to the problems you're experiencing.



what are you guys doing for a screen protector?