Clean Vista install WITH NO ACTIVATION

I would assume Vista's defragmentor also reorganizes data based on what you frequently load (probably more aggressively than even XP's does). So just because it takes a while doesn't necessarily mean it's badly fragmented.

 

Vista's defrag is configured to run in the background. It's not necessary to manually defragment anymore. Just let the background task do it's job and forget about it.

(My view on defragging is that you should not be doing it at all. The file system should be smart enough not to need it, like every other modern file system except for NTFS. A background task is the next best thing, so just let that run when it wants to. The only exception to this is files downloaded from p2p networks, which can be massively fragmented. In that case, I use contig.exe from sysinternal, along with "powerdefragmenterGUI".)

 

I didn't know that Vista runs defrag in the background. Won't that slow down the system? Can it be disabled? I know it's not recommended but does Vista allows the user to disable background defrag?

Peter

 

by Vista default, defrag is scheduled once per week every Wednesday at 1AM. you can change the schedule though if you want. just go to programs > accessories > system tools

 

I was already aware of that and I disabled it because I never leave my notebook on 24 hours a day. That's not the same as the defrag running in background. Is that correct?

 

Seriously, leave the defrag settings alone and don't worry about it. The whole point of software is that you shouldn't have to worry about things, and you can focus on doing something creative. You may be in the habit of defragging, but that's an old habit that you haven't needed to do for a few years now. Just forget about doing it and enjoy your newfound freedom.

Defragging in the background does not impact performance. Vista now has prioritized IO, which is new for Vista, and defrag runs at low priority. It runs when it can, and gets out of the way if anything else needs the disk.

 

Thanks orev for the info.

I already knew the main reason for the clean install. I want to set up my computer the way I want, not HP or anyone else. I do not want all those factory installed bloatwares that used up hard disk space and very possibly slow down the computer. I noticed that there are fewer processes running in task manager from clean Vista install than factory install. Also there used to be a page and a half of programs installed displayed in "Add/Remove Programs" (That's what Windows XP calls it. I forgot what's that's called in Vista. I am at work and use Windows XP. My laptop is at home). Now with clean install, it shows only half a page of programs installed. Now I call that a very clean install.

Peter

 

Got thru the clean install procedure. thanks!

I'm trying to re-install the HP user guides for the 9543cl. I think it was part of the "Total Care" stuff. I installed the HP Help stuff, which put their branded stuff into the Windows help, but when I click "User Guides" it says, "Application Not Installed".

Any ideas where and how to reinstall the User Guides? I have the swsetup directory, but can't seem to locate the correct files.

thanks.

Edit: well, i found most of what i wanted (remote control, keyboard, etc.) on the HP site under manuals. funny how you never need the manual after you've read it once. surprising that HP doesn't inlcude more pdf's in the install swsetup dir.

 

Like what file systems, exactly? AFAIK there's no way a file system can magically remove all possibilities of fragmentation. Maybe somehow the Unix server OSes handle it differently, but the two major desktop OSes both have fragmentation occur.

 

Pretty much any/all unix/linux file systems (ext3, xfs, reiser, ...). You have never had to defrag a linux filesystem. They don't even really make programs that do it, and if you want to, you need to shut down the whole system while it runs. That's not an option on most/all servers that are doing anything important.

Even Apple says you don't need this on OS X, so Windows really was the only one.

Smarter disk layout techniques and better disk caching methods is the reason why. It's a shame Microsoft didn't understand this in the beginning, and now everyone is used to defragging when they should be spending time with their families.

 

The HP guides, Total Care and other stuff are big parts of bloatwares. In my opinion, they do not work very well. I did not install HP crapwares except some hardware features like Quick Launch buttons and web cam. I just install necessary drivers until there are no yellow exclamation or question marks in device manager. Then install software that you always use (e.g. MS Works or Office). I didn't even install modem driver because I was afraid that it might be running in the background and I don't plan on using modem.

I just go to HP web site and check for latest software and driver on a periodic basis (every two - four weeks). I don't need HP crapwares do that for me.

Peter

 

Looks like orev is correct about Disk Defragmenter. See Link:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/performance.mspx

Look for "Disk defragmentation on a schedule".

Peter

 

Edit 3: ok nvm i got it hehe

i was wondering is there any other disk image programs i can use? because the one on the site (the one with the picture guide), that TrueImage download didnt work (website didnt go), thx

 

Thanks for the backup/restore utilities which made this whole procedure very easy for me. I gained over 5 gigs of space and sped up boot time considerably. Also resource hogging Norton is gone completely. I like Kaspersky better anyway. The best thing tho is that now I can use the Upgrade Anytime DVD to reinstall Vista anytime I need to - just like before when new pc's came with an ordinary OS install disk. (Anyone remember Windows 98?)

I agree that the HP Help software is useless bloatware, especially for the kind of users who tweak their systems like this. I did reinstall the Hotkeys and DVD player.

I expect some of you know that with the various OEM keys floating around the web, an unscrupulous user could use a different serial with his original activation cert. to upgrade to a better version for free. Altho that technically would be a crack, I don't think Microsoft is too worried about it. Free upgrades are often tossed in as part of a deal, in many businesses.

 

Just got my WAU Disc, had a few more questions. I have stuff on my laptop right now that I don't want to lose, but there's too much to practically save on basic removable media. Since I have two HDDs, I was thinking I could do this process a few times in order to get the OS and data on the desired drives.

Current state: OS on C, Data (to be saved) on C.
Here's what I'm hoping to do:

Data to D, format and clean install on C
Data to C, format and clean install on D
Data to D, format C, data to C.

This may be rather excessive, but I'm more concerned with whether having two copies of the OS, the same OS, on the two HDDs will be a problem, or is even possible.

Thanks, again, I'll post results when I finaly do this.

 

EOTistatron: I'm not sure your scenario, but why do you need to install the OS on both disks? That's not a typical setup. Normally you would have the OS on the main drive (C: ), then use the second drive (D: ) as a data storage area. You don't need the OS installed on D:. You probably would just format D: if you want to clean it off.

Here's what I would do:
Format D:
Copy data to D:
Clean install on C:
Copy data from D: to C:

 

Except that's not true. OS X gets just as fragmented as Windows. You don't "have" to defragment Windows either (and really NTFS doesn't get very fragmented).

I'd have to wonder even with the Unix file systems. There's no way to avoid fragmentation completely. It may just not matter much. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the Unix file systems did no better than NTFS.

 

There are whole areas of computer science research devoted to this topic. Numerous system developers, computer scientists, and system admins agree that unix filesystems don't have huge fragmentation problems, and even the Apple web site says so (and OS X is unix these days). I'm sure with further research and understanding, you will also come to the same conclusion.

Yes, fragmentation exists everywhere, but that doesn't mean it's actually a problem.

 

Well i was wondering, I got true image dled, what i was wondering after you make the image thing (i havent made yet because im still reinstalling right now), since True Image is a trial for me, after true image expires , will i still be able to use the image to back up my system,
Im sorta confused at using True Image, the manual has too many things, and i dunno which part talks about this
would be great if someone could help me with True Image or another program that does the same
thx

 

Topboxman,

HP Health Check popped up yesterday and wanted access to the internet. no way to remove (except manually.)

had enough of that. reformatted and re-installed only the necessary drivers. i'm with you - windows update and check hp's site periodically is fine.

i really only wanted the manuals/help. found some pdf's on hp's site and downloaded. once you've read them, you rarely need them.

gonna backup everything now. very happy with the 9543cl.

 

That's a good question. I know you're allowed to make a bootable disk that will allow you to access the recovery archive without having to boot into the OS. I believe you should still be able to restore your image, but you will no longer be able to do backups. Dont quote me on that though. I would love to be corrected if i am wrong.

 

Then don't claim it's a problem in Windows. Windows DOES NOT fragment any worse than OS X does. I doubt you "need" to defragment either under normal operation.

 

I was hoping that my previous comment:

would spur you on to do a little research on your own, but I guess that didn't happen.

My other comment:

was meant to point out that just because you don't understand how the system works, based on your own assumptions, that it doesn't mean it can't work.

Fragmentation has indeed been a big problem on Windows for a long time, and for that same time period it has not been a problem for UNIXes. Only recently, like *maybe* with Windows XP and Vista, has this issue sort of been resolved (on Vista it's only by having a defragger running all the time in the background). I cannot speak to Apple's OS9 and earlier, but OSX is based on BSD UNIX, so it now falls into the UNIX category.

Most UNIXes have a very aggressive disk caching mechanism (I must admit I'm mostly talking about Linux here), and as a result, when a file is written to by an application, it actually just sits in memory in the cache. It's not actually written to the disk until it needs to be, and at that point many other chunks of the same file are now also in the cache. That allows the system to write them all at once, instead of writing each time a chunk is written. On Linux, the system take almost all available RAM and uses it for disk cache, so you could theoretically have files almost as big as your RAM in the cache, which results in the file being defragmented before it's actually written to disk.

UNIXes also take into account the fact that a disk is really a 3 dimensional storage device, and tries to keep all parts of a file in the same platter/head. Windows only sees a linear storage space, and even a "defragmented" file could be on different areas of the physical disk. More on this here.

There is an excellent discussion of how this can work on linux here. There is also a discussion on NTFS fragmentation here. I'm sure you can read plenty more on Google. Just be careful because most people are just parroting conventional wisdom about defragging, and are not actually doing any real research into fully understanding it.

 

I apologize for bringing the fragmentation issue in the first place. After reading orev's comments and researching about it through Google, I didn't realize it was no longer an issue today.

Please stick to the thread title and stop discussing about frag/defrag stuff in this thread. If you want to discuss this issue, please create a new thread.

Thanks,
Peter

 

What "research" would this be? Where are you getting the idea that OS X somehow is less prone to fragmentation than Windows?

So? Regardless it has fragmentation at LEAST as much as Windows does. HFS+ is nothing special in that regard. As I've said, I don't know enough about the Unix file systems to say one way or the other, but I do know it's impossible to completely avoid fragmentation (and in fact a multiuser system would be more prone to it in a lot of cases).

I'm pretty sure OS X does that as well, but that can't completely negate fragmentation-and I'm also not sure that's the best use of RAM from a user perspective.

Those links you provided didn't really say anything new. Just th at Unix does a better job, and NTFS isn't as bad as FAT. That doesn't mean there's no fragmentation, and it doesn't mean NTFS needs to be defragmented any more than HFS+. I know neither my OS X nor Windows machines REALLY need to be defragemented, though I do from time to time on Windows since there's a free defragementor provided. (OS X doesn't have one, though it does do some file defragementation in the background if it's idle under the newer versions.)

(Honestly I trust NTFS more than HFS+, though that's just based on personal experience-I've never had any data loss or issues at all with NTFS, and I've never seen one of my systems get very fragmented.)

 

As I said in my original reply, the most likely reason defragmentation took you that long was because Windows was actually optimizing files' location on your disk based on your usage, versus actually being all that fragmented. Windows (especially Vista) keeps track of quite a bit of data like that that it uses to optimize stuff like that. XP does too, though to a lesser extent (I think).

 

Hi

I am fairly new member here but ive been surfing here for the last month or so in research for a new laptop. I just recently bought a brand new HP DV2500(2GHZ,2GB,160GB,Nvidia7200) for about AU$1100. Im not an expert at OS's so i need your help.

I am planning to do a clean install but HP didnt provide me with the Vista Anytime discs. They didnt include it on the box as all i needed to use was the Recovery partition drive.

Is it possible for me to do a clean install without the Vista Anytime Discs? Would i need to backup my drivers (C:/SWSetup) to keep my HP stuff and just delete the trialware programs?

Im sort of confused with this guide but thankful its possible at the same time. Is the only difference between this guide and a normal reformat is that you dont have to call up and re-activate? I dont mind calling up Microsoft to activate again as ive done it in the past with no problems.

My old Compaq was so slow because from all the crapware it came with and i didnt want my new laptop to be bogged up. I just want my laptop to have a clean installed Vista without trialware pop-ups annoying me and slowing down the CPU.

Thanks in advance,
Ed

 

The only way to do a real clean install is to use an Anytime Upgrade disk, a retail disk, or an OEM Disk. You can't do an install without an install disk... make sense? You can purchase the anytime upgrade disk from many places. It seems like compusa is quick and easy and cheap ($5).
Just back-up the C:/AWSetup. Why not? Disks are cheap. Make sure to back-up any files you currently have on your hard drive. They will be gone forever after the clean install unless you back them up.

The guide is pretty straight forward. If you just follow each step you should have any trouble. Yes, with this guide you don't have to call Micro$oft to activate. It's very simple to use the ABR utility. Grab a USB drive, follow each step and just do it.

It is necessary to do a clean install if you really want a clean install. If you choose not to do a clean install and just delete the programs you don't want. It will free up disk space, but there will be some remnants of the programs left over that just won't go away without a clean install.

 

Thanks for the response Stallen,

I guess ill have to order in a Install CD. Ive already backed up the Driver files before-hand. I keep most of my personal files/documents in a external HDD anyways.

Is it possible to create several partitions without formatting the Recovery partition Drive?

Im gonna try this method first and if it does happen to fail, i guess ill just call Microsoft for a stable activation code next time i do reformat.

 

I can't think of any benefit to having multiple partitions. If you are looking to dual boot with another OS you'll need another partition. Otherwise you'd be better off with one large partition. Multiple partitions just slow things down and decreases storage flexibility.

stable activation code?? ?? Calling Microsoft will not be more stable (or less). The ABR utility method of activation will provide the same activation that your laptop had when you first purchased your laptop.

 

I usually put my OS in a seperate parition/drive and another one for my other files. Less confusing that way and if my OS crashes i still have my files in a seperate drive.

Maybe it will probably slow down abit for laptops w/ single HDD. Im just used to putting my OS in a dedicated HDD and my files in another.

As for the Microsoft Activation thing..
Isnt it once you activate it over the phone they give you a Activation code which u can use over and over again aslong as you dont change any of your hardware

 

I'm really not sure about that.

I am sure that once you use ABR to back-up your activation you can keep that on a USB drive and use it over and over.

 

Unfortunately no. The activation code only activates once. The next time you activate you will have to call again and they give you a different code. There is supposedly an activation reset period of 120 days or so after which you should be able to automatically reactivate but this is pretty much a unconfirmed rumor as far as I know.

 

I had major success with two dv9260nr laptops (one was mine, one of my bosses'). Now I want to try with an Everex stepnote xt5000t.

The question that I have is if there is a way to upgrade to the 64bit version of the same level of vista? I have both versions of the Upgrade any time DVD's.

Currently the Everex is not activated yet. I have waited to do that so that if there is a chance to do the switch to not complicate things.

So my questions:
1) Can I change to the 64bit Vista Home premium (from the 32-bit Home premium)

2) If it is possible to switch, should I upgrade to 64 bit first and then activate it or the other way around?

Any help is appreciated

Evangelos

 

Yes, you can change between the 32bit and 64bit versions. You should double check the license, but everything I have found says that this is the case. It will also work, from a technical standpoint.

For #2, you don't have a choice. You cannot "upgrade" to 64bit Vista. You must do a complete installation of it. So in that case, you do the install, then activate. Just like any other clean install.

 

Just finishing up with the drivers and Swsetup files. Everything worked perfectly. Thanks for the guide and answers.

 

I can't seem to purchase a Windows Anytime Upgrade CD/DVD anywhere in Canada. Does anyone know any place that ships to Canada from the US?

 

You can try microsoft.

 

Does deleting the Hard Drive Recovery Partition void the HP Warranty?

 

No..... you can replace the entire hard drive if you want to.

 

Hi

Long time following this topic, but first time posting.

May I please have some doubts solved?

I was about to order a dv9260us last week when I found nice reviews about it. In general the note was very well rated, but there were always references to the software loaded on it. Then I've found this post (amazing one, thanks).
I'm a graphics intense worker, and will not abandon my desktop, but the note will add a lot to what I do.
I would love to procedure with a clean install and be free of things like Norton, AOL and others.

The problem is that I have never installed an OS before, don't know how to use that commands on DOS to do it, never made a partition either nor a recovery disk. I would not be able to follow the wonderful tutorial.
As I could understand, the main problem is all that programs running backwards, spending memory, slowing proccesses down.
As I could see, just deleting them would probably let some pieces of software behind, stoling some little space on the HDs after deleting them and making use of a good Registry Cleaner, ok.

But it would prevent those things still running too, wouldn't it?

Anyway I would be free of them still slowing down my notebook, and after manually deleting them (that is something I know how to do, at least) I don't think that the small parts of software left behind would use a large amount of space on my HD. This would not be the problem for me.
The fact is: I would love to follow the tutorial, for sure, but I can't do that, excuse my stupidty, it's behind my knowledge

The only thing I could do would be deleting the junk softwares. Anyway they would not be slowing down my note anymore, right?
That would be already nice for me.

Am I wrong on this?

Thanks for this nice topic and tutorial. Its a pleasure to participate here.
My best regards,
Carlos.

 

The first time you do something like this, it's a little intimidating, but you can do it.

You don't have to do any DOS commands.

Look at this version of the guide with screenshots. http://www.davescomputertips.com/Newsletters/20070715.php#2

Just follow orev's or dave's guide one step at a time.

You can also look at the guide in my sig (most of the information in my guide is a collaboration of orev's and Dave's guides). The first time I did a clean install years ago, I read several guides. Everyone describes it a little different. After you read a few guides you'll get the idea. Basically just take it one step at a time.

 

how big of a difference does your laptop perform after you have completed this process? My new dv6500t takes 2-3 minutes to boot completely. Will a clean installation reduce that time to less than 45 seconds?

 

I heard that some people were having some problem with reinstalling the fingerprnt reader driver. does anybody know where i could go to reinstall it?

 

I think the only problems with the fingerprint driver have been that some people did not save it first, and then could not find it after. The fingerprint driver is really 2 parts, the driver, and the software that interfaces with it. You can download the driver, but the software isn't on the main download pages.

As for the speed, the boot up time is a poor measure of speed. A clean install gives you the peace of mind that you know exactly everything that's installed is something *you* put on there. If you are worried about bootup time, you should use sleep mode. The system will resume from sleep mode much more quickly then a hard boot.

 

A stupid question .. My nephew has just purchased a brand new 6500T. He would like me to "optimize" his new lappy. I fully understand the Vista installation w/o activation notes. But, in order to burn the Recovery Disks, I have to initially set up Vista. Would that mean, that I would have to call/register, or activate online, for the very first time only. Or, follow the no activation rules, for the initial set up. As you can see, I'm a complete Vista newbie.

 

When you unpack the system and turn it on for the first time, Vista will already be installed. You should use that already installed version to make the recovery discs and backup c:\swsetup. It's sort of a pain going through the first setup knowing you're going to blow it all away anyway, but that's how you have to do it.

While you're at it, I'd recommend testing the recovery discs before you do the clean install.

 

Orev,

Thanks for all the useful information. I understand that Vista is already installed. What I was inquiring about, is the inevitable Microsoft notification, which was answered in Post 89 - "If you use the serial on the sticker, the main difference is you'll need to activate somehow, either on the Internet or by calling Microsoft".
Taking your advise, I will "trial" the newly burned Recovery Disks, before the final configuration. I am fully confident, that I will turn my nephew's lappy, into something he will truly enjoy.

Al ..

 

You don't have to do that. When you unpack the system, Vista is already installed AND ACTIVATED. Sorry I wasn't clear on that. That's what ABR does -- it backs up the activation certificate that's already on the system.

 

orev,

thanks for this guide.

Can you tell me if this approach will still work if I replace hard drive my system came with larger drive and try to install Vista on it? Of course I will be able to restore activation info but it will be from the different hardware conguration.