DV7 heat reduction for dummies

First of all go easy on me, I'm just an old mainframer and a little out of my area.

My friend had a DV7 that cooked it's graphic chip over time so I ordered a new board. I replaced the thermal pads on the graphics chip and whatever the other thing is that needs cooling besides the processor.

There was no pad on the processor so I just cleaned it well and brushed on a thin layer of SIIG AC-TG0412-S1 Ultra Chill Brush-On Diamond Thermal Grease.

After I put it all back together it seemed to me that the fan ran much less than on the old board (when it would boot) and the area above the keyboard seemed to be much cooler BUT...

I ran across SPEEDFAN and downloaded, installed and ran. It says that the core temp was 80-90C which seems really hot even though it feels cooler. This was just from downloading and running SPEEDFAN.

Anyway, should I try a thicker layer of SIIG or is there an improved heat sink I can purchase or is 80-90 not so bad for a DV7.

Any help appreciated, I'm trying to do a good, free deed here.

Thanks

 

First, I’d suggest that you not turn the notebook on again until you get this sorted out… unless you’d like to buy another motherboard. I don’t know exactly, but I’d guess that the thermal CPU limit is somewhere between 90 and 100c before damage occurs. It “should” shut itself down prior to prevent damage but if something isn’t installed correctly you “could” easily fry the CPU or motherboard.

Second, while you didn’t give the exact specs (CPU/GPU) this unit should likely idle between about 30 and 40c. The DV4t and DV2700t listed in my sig idle at 28c and 36c respectively in a 72F room and they are much smaller units than the DV7. Both use Artic Silver 5 on the CPU and the DV2700t uses Artic Silver 5 and a 1mm copper shim on the GPU. I’ve never seen the DV4t above 58c or the DV2700t above 73c. Immediately after heavy load the temps drop like a rock.

Last, I’m not familiar with your TIM but I’d say it is either crap, that you didn’t apply it correctly, that the heat sink is incorrectly installed, or that the system fan is either not plugged in, faulty, or obstructed.

Note: You can also see a review of TIM here. Not absolute but will put you in the ballpark.

Hope that helps, Best

Dave

 

Thanks Dave The TIM used was Fujipoly Extreme. It didn't make the list but got a good review somewhere before I ordered.

I took it apart today to look at the paste and in my uninformed opinion it looked pretty good. Since I didn't have anything else to try, I put a square of the TIM on the processor.

I also downloaded CoreTemp (Something Like that) and it agrees with SpeedFan in that the processor is still running at around 85.

What I did notice with CoreTemp is that the processor is bouncing between say 60 and 85 percent utilization without extra load. I am thinking that that alone would cause a heat problem.

Is there a break in period for paste/TIM?

Anyway, thanks for the input.

 

-- If the temp is bouncing, that at least indicates that the fan and system temp controls are working and trying to cool the CPU.

-- Some TIM has a burn in period for optimal performance but I’ve never really seen much of a difference as an end result (perhaps +/- 2c).

Your issue is likely associated with either the application of the TIM or installation of the heat sink assembly. The TIM should only be about the thickness of a credit card (or less) and cover the entire CPU pad. I usually just use a business card (or the like) to make sure I have a very even distribution. I’ve seen some videos on YouTube where folks just put a large glob of TIM in the center of the CPU pad and evidently have no issues. I suppose it really doesn’t matter as long as the end result is an even distribution of TIM across the entire CPU pad. This also applies to the GPU if discrete.

If your unit is like the Intel based DV4t it may also have two large capacitors that also need TIM when the heat sink is reinstalled. Last when you install the heat sink make sure everything is aligned and that you follow the screw attachment order numbered on the heat sink and that it is firmly in place in all four corners. As best you can, inspect the install and make sure nothing is loose and that you have no space between any of the components. If I knew what CPU and GPU (discrete or integrated) were installed, I might be able to provide better guidance but as a generalization, that’s about the best I can do.

Also, as a note, AMD based units with integrated graphics tend to idle a bit warmer (45c +/-) than their Intel based counterparts. Units equipped with discrete graphics also run warmer than those with integrated due to their much more powerful GPU’s. No matter the case however, the unit you’re working on is running way to hot at idle and if pushed will likely just shut down or, worst case, burn up if not corrected. Then again... this may have been the issue that caused the first motherboard to fail in the first place.

Best, Dave

 

I have thought this from the beginning. The lady (owner) said the fan was always loud and the pad on the GPU was completely cooked when I took it apart.

Actually the area above the keyboard is cooler than it was before I started so who knows what temps it was running under.

I read last night that the heatsink isn't just a hunk of copper but fluid filled and that got me thinking that maybe it is impossible to cool this thing with the parts I have in hand. I could believe that I screwed the paste up for gaming but I think one of my 2 jobs should have been good enough for the desktop. Plus it doesn't seem that the guy at the factory did much better.

I ordered Artic Silver 5 as well as a replacement heat sink and fan. None of it was expensive and for me this project has gone well beyond helping it's owner. I have declared war.

I looked for some sort of heatsink upgrade but could only find replacements.

The GPU and capacitors have separate arms from the heatsink.

One thing I found odd is that the fan doesn't really try very hard until the core reaches around 83c. I would have thought that it would have picked up the pace much sooner.

I disabled all services and startup's and it ran at 53c. Then I added only Microsoft services and ran at 63c until I clicked on Control Pannel at which time it started rising and the fan was trying hard but unable to help. I killed it just short of 90.

Parts should be in next week......Thanks for all the help

 

LOL… Declared War!! If nothing else, when you’ve finished with this quest you’ll be a TIM expert…. Ultra Chill Brush-On Diamond Thermal Grease, Fujipoly Extreme, and Artic Silver 5.

Just a thought, but since you said that the unit was already severely overheating and that the CPU was toasty and had little or no TIM, you might want to go ahead and replace the CPU. You have a new motherboard, and now a new heat sink and fan. The only remaining component that could have been damaged then is the CPU itself. Along with the motherboard, the CPU has a temp sensor incorporated within the chip. If the fan isn’t coming up to speed until ultra high temps are achieved….and you know the fan is good… it’s then at least possible that the CPU sensor isn’t working correctly.

You can get a nice used CPU for $20 to $25 bucks from ebay and possibly upgrade the unit in the process. I just recently pulled an Intel P7350 from our DV4t and installed a P8700 for like $21.50 shipped and got a 25% speed improvement. At-any- rate, it’s the last possible link in the problem and might be worth consideration. Get your unit model number and go to Service Guide sticky at the top of the Pavilion thread. From there you can find installation instructions and a list of possible processors.

Last, when I did the DV4t, I installed Artic Silver 5 on the CPU/GPU. But when it came to the 2 capacitors, I just took TIM (similar to your Fujipoly) and rolled 2 pieces into pea size balls and placed them on top of the capacitors. There’s nothing nearby, you don’t have to worry about excess, and you will assure good heat sink contact during install.

Best with your Quest,

Dave

 

Note: If you haven't already, you should also go into the BIOS and set the fan to Always ON. While I still think you have cooling issues, setting the fan to Always On should at least slow the temp rise...somewhat.

 

Heatpipes degrade. Some more, some less. Therefore replacing the actual heatsink/pipes may help. My colleague tested this when he replaced a buzzing fan on some laptop. Idle temp difference between new and old heatsink was something like 5C, even with thorough cleaning and fresh thermal paste on the old heatsink.

Can't remember the specs of the laptop though, that was over 2 years ago.

 

. Ultra Chill Brush-On Diamond Thermal Grease, Fujipoly Extreme, and Artic Silver 5.

I have known some guys who know a bunch of buzz words but not how to get anything done....now I am one.

I had no idea that a replacement processor would be so cheap. This is a DV7 1267cl and the chart said that it ran a AMD Turion X2 Dual-core RM-74 2.2GHz Mobile.

I found one on Amazon for $14 which is about $10 cheaper than the heatsink.
I decided not to go for the upgrade. Heck, at this point if it runs that is an upgrade.

Is there any reason not to just paste the capacitors as well? Seems like if the heatsink wants to sit flat then all three areas should be about the same.

One thing for sure. If it doesn't run cooler we can only blame the paste painter!!!

 

Nah RJ… you’re doing fine there… for an “old mainframer” and I’m certain that your friend will sincerely appreciate the effort. Well above the Call of Duty!

On Capacitor TIM… the short answer is that I just got frustrated. I’d tried twice to get everything lined up while keeping the Artic Silver pristine and failed on both attempts (Yes OCD). I then just decided it wasn’t worth the effort to clean everything off again and fail, so I just eliminated one of the three alignment point issues (CPU/GPU/Capacitors) and put the TIM balls on the Caps. Mission Complete!

BIOS…If you haven’t already, when you get the unit up and running, you might want to update the BIOS. I just read back a bit through the old BIOS versions for this unit ( here) and there are some updates for thermal battery issues (Boston Technology), Vista SP2, and compatibility for future Operating Systems (meaning Win 7). You never know it might help, and at the very least it’ll bring the unit up to speed. Also, don’t forget the fan “Always On” setting if it’s in there.

At-any-rate, it’s always a learning experience. Like I had no idea a heat sink could wear out (good one there KLF… I had no idea computers even needed heat sinks in Finland ). Good luck there paste painter and I look forward to reading your success story…

Best, Dave

 

Every story deserves a happy ending so here goes:

New Fan $7 (not necessary but much quieter)
New Heat Sink $23 ( Who knows planning to cut old one for liquid check)
New Processor $14 (Not sure - Fan stages are at the same temps as before)
New Board $150 (For Sure - Old one was dead)
Artic Silver 5 (No Doubt A Good Idea)

I put it all together yesterday at the office. It ran in the 40c-50c range but I didn't want to run much until it had time to seat.

It was a rainy evening so I took it home and decided to watch the temps while a virus scan was running. All was well until it was scanning the registry and the temps kept slowly rising until it was almost 80c.

I paused the scan and it cooled. I started it again and once again the temps went up and I paused it around 80c. I thought it might cool faster if I lifted the back from the desk top and the fan pitch changed dramatically. I then stuck a couple of cd cases under the back and the temp never got above 53c again.

It turns out that fan has almost no air input while sitting flat. I stopped at the lady's workplace this morning and asked her where she most used this laptop. She told me she usually used it on her bed!! Might as well cover the input with duct tape.

Anyway, it now idles between 39c and 43c and runs like a champ. She is going to purchase a Cooler Master to use on the bed and all is well.

For her this was more than a laptop, it was purchased by a family member and became sort of a keepsake. A chain and locket might have been a better choice.

Thanks a ton OldMajorDave for all the help and encouragement. We struck a blow for old guys everywhere.

RalphJ


*Note* If there was ever any fluid in the heatsink it is long since gone.....just an empty copper tube.

 

Great Job RJ!! LOL though… I get a big grin every time I read your posts.

-- "I have declared War!"
-- “Heck, at this point if it runs that is an upgrade.”
-- “Might as well cover the input with duct tape.”
-- “A chain and locket might have been a better choice.”
-- “We struck a blow for old guys everywhere.”

At-any-rate, I’m happy to have helped a little, even if only for moral support. Excellent work on the ($200) keepsake and a great sense of humor to boot…

Best, Dave

 

Before I got the current Logitech lapdesk I'm now using, I kept a big hardcover book under my laptop (world map, similar to what I was given in the first grade at school). A chopping board borrowed from kitchen will also do fine as a temporary solution.

Edit couple weeks later:

Today is still +23C (73.4F), just got home from work and soon I'm gonna put on my gear and hit the twisties with my bike...
Ask me again in three months and I'll say it's -23C... Temps vary from +30C in summer to -30C in winter.

 

Finally some people who seem to know what they speak of re DV7!
Story - when Mrs was confined to bed for a while, I bought a dv7-6014 for her- I7 quad, 8gb, 1.5 tb. After a while (days) of use on/off the bed, she reported it running hot. Put it on a hard surface (book or tray), improved a bit. Installed Speedfan, ran it, all fan noise ceased, no further issues , VERY quiet now for 2 years.
About 9 months after first purchase I bought a dv7-5003tx for myself. This has always had a noisy fan, with Speedfan unable to show (or apparently control) any fan speeds. It shows temps at the cores into the 80s on warm days, and the left side of the case quite hot to the touch. If I apply a vacuum cleaner to all the air vents underneath and left side the temps go down a bit, and fan quietens for a few weeks . Temps also go down if I lift the rear of the unit 1/2" clear of the table top.
The really curious thing to me is that the 6014 has air vents underneath towards left rear, on the left side towards the rear , AND on the left rear edge inboard of the screen hinge, BUT my 5003 does NOT have this vent on the rear edge.
Current ambient is around 25C. Unit has been on all day. Temps reported by Speedfan are:-
HD0 45c
HD1 41c
GPU 71c
ambient 61c
core 0 75c
core 1 72c

have had no luck trying to install HP Coolsense....

Incidentally I went through a time where it was intermittently parking cores such that things like playing music were unusable. After I found the commands to make cores stay active, Speedfan only reports temps on two cores as above, but the relevant MS screen shows all 4 active.


Any suggestions please? Dont really feel comfortable dismantling it as far as the fan - looks like lots of screws involved, and I havent found anything on the web for exactly this model.

thanks
jp