Dell m6400 or HP 8730w?

I was going to get the 8730w when the configurables become available and the advertised options of quad core, dreamcolor display, 3700 grafix card. But now Im looking at the Dell m6400 - though the best options with that one arent quite available yet.
Man what is up with these companies not releasing a product as advertised in the first place?!

anyway, wanted to get opinions on what people thought about one or the other from here.

 

They both will have the 3700 Quadro card, both will have mobile quad.

Its up to u, if u want a Dreamcolor screen or the upgradablity to 16GB of RAM

 

now anything over 4 GB of ram only is valid if Im on 64 bit Windows right?

 

yes, 32bit oses will only address 4gbs of memory

 

32 bit will address 4gb and use about 3.25

 

I'm myself in the position of choosing between those two. This is made harder by the fact that I have little to no previous experience with notebooks.
That being said, I'm leaning towards HP, because:
1. From what I searched on the web, and the pictures I saw, I think (but of course I have no way to verify yet) that the HP is better built.
2. I'm quite sure I won't need 16GB anytime soon, and I also suppose that at some moment bigger RAM modules will appear and the HP will be able to use 16GB too (when 9710w appeared it was advertised as 4GB max, now its 8GB because 4GB DIMMs appeared).
3. I like the design of the HP more.
4. I have seen a 8710w (the predecessor of 8730w) and it I liked it a lot. Seems very well built and the owner had 0 issues with it.
5. The dealer tells me they generally have less problems with HP than Dell, but they sell mainly desktops
6. Subjectively, I like HP more as a brand

I'm not sure about the DreamColor being more than a marketing gimmick. It's not the same as the desktop DreamColor (30bit), it's 24bit so despite HP's claims I suppose it might be pretty similar to M6400's "RGB LED edge-to-edge 17" screen with 100% Adobe color gamut support".

Dragos

 

hm, i'm going to repeat what i said in reply to simmilar question in dell
section..

beside dell m6400 and hp 8730w, in this category there is also lenovo w700..

best quality displays would be on hp and dell, quantity (400 nits) goes to
lenovo. led backlight displays also consume less energy..

lenovo (ibm's design) was famous for build quality, but new thinkpads seems
to have flexing keyboard due to reduced weight.. hp has combined aluminum
exterior with a magnesium alloy chassis and meets military standard for dust
and altitude.. new dell precision industrial design uses aluminum for lcd back
and base..

dell and lenovo have 9 cell, 85 whr battery, hp 8 cell 73 whr.. hp uses 120w
or 150 w power supply, depending on configuration, lenovo 170w and dell
210 w..

dell and lenovo use ddr3 memory, which should result in 30% less power draw
per memory stick.. only dell can be configured with 16 gb of ram..

all support quad core (45w) cpu, quadro 3700, 2 disk raid.. lenovo offers
turbo cache for hd..

dell have backlit keyboard and track pad that works like a jog/shuttle..
lenovo have optional wacom digitizer and built-in color calibrator..
hp is the only one that offers freedos..

lenovo and hp can have bd drive as optical device..

neither can be configured with p9500 cpu (25w) and nvidia 3700 quadro is
part of the recently infamous family of failing gpu's..

my ideal mobile workstation will be frankenstein with following parts:
hp chasis with lenovo implementation of wacom digitizer and pantone
calibrator, dell's backlit keyboard, track pad that works like a jog/shuttle
and motherboard with support for 16 gb of ram and displayport for running 2
external monitors, and hp's dreamcolor display..

m6400 is the closest to ideal, but i hate that it has an air intake on the
bottom side, which can easily be closed when sitting on soft surface or,
hm - ~4 kg, in my lap..

anyhow, until there is no information about noise levels and power draw,
we can only sit and wait, and most interesting configurations aren't offered
and can't be bought..

 

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I saw your post comparing the 3 in the Dell section and found it very informative! I have decided against the Levono. Im trying to get the smallest of these machines I can and that one seems pricier than the other 2 for no reasons that are beneficial to me.


The post above makes a good point, one I already know, that the HP has a history of being a very well built machine (though its a slightly different design on the new one). But I like the Dell and my second and current laptop has been a top of the line Dell (for its time it was top of the line). It is the Inspiron 9100 and Ive had it well over 4 years now and have taken it to and from work EVERY DAY for those 4 years, and though its big and heavy (esp now a days, it really has been a work horse and hasnt had any bad problems. I knocked the Vid Card loose a couple times and opened it up and put it back, and I have cracked the display bezel but glued it back and its fine. So 4 years of steady abuse and this Dell has proven itself to be a very well built machine. I on the other hand have no exp with HP laptops though I know the 8710w is rated a very well built laptop.

I think for me its gonna come down to who gets the one I want out first (the options).
I really want an LED screen.


One question:
How can I find out what the programs that were certified with this Dell are. There are 30 some professional programs that span CAD stuff to Digital media stuff that were supposed to be certified with this unit for better support. I saw some Dell vid about this. They mentioned Dig Audio but they didnt mention the program. But I have seen no info on WHAT those programs are. Is there a list Im missing?

 

i'm in the same boat in deciding between these two. I need it for heavy 3d architecture programs like Revit, 3ds Max..and I keep going back and forth. the lenovo 700w is out because I really think it's more geared to photography and that kind of design.

laverdir your analysis is right on btw.

The Dell Precision notebooks are supposedly coming out with new colors by YE 08, first orange in November...supposedly.

That said, the HP seems really well built but that alone is not good enough reason to choose it. It's not like the dell will fall apart and no one I know is taking it into an F16 fighter pilot to check out the military grade.

For me, processor and memory are most important and should be the deciding factors. Both have basically the same processors choices (inc quad) so I guess it comes down to how important is having the option of 16gb of RAM as opposed to only 8 in the HP?


Thoughts?

Also -- anyone know much about the difference between the NVIDIA 2700 and 3700? For someone running the apps I'm talking about..what would you recommend as the MINIMUM graphics card?

 

The problem for me is not 8 GB vs 16 GB, as I don't need 16GB. However, to put 8GB in the HP is VERY expensive (1200 USD) because you need to use 4GB DIMMS (which are expensive).
In the Dell, because you have 4 slots, you can get the same 8GB by using 2GB DIMMs, which are cheap (400 USD).

Dragos

PS Dell does this in an interesting way, by not using a mobile chipset but a desktop one, which rises some questions for me: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=307812

 

Hope this discussion isn't already dead or anything. It came up in google for me so I'll leave my response for posterity I guess...

I'm switching from an HP 8710w to a Dell m6400. I also got to see the new 8730 in person at SigGraph so I noted the difference between that and the 8710. The Dell hasn't arrived yet, but here are some of the things I liked about it that may not be well represented on the Dell site:

e-Sata port, which is big for me and present on both the m6400 and 8730. What they don't say, is that it's hard to buy hard drive enclosures that have both USB and Firewire nowadays. All you can find is USB / eSata.

Dual hard drives. Having redundant storage on a laptop is pretty huge. Or you can have your small fast solid-state drive for your OS and keep your files on a nice 320gig secondary. : )

Like mentioned above, having 4 ram slots instead of two saves you about $600 (or more) if you are going to buy 8 gigs of ram. There is only one retailer I could find for 4gig laptop ram sticks (Crucial) and last I looked a matched pair of 4gig sticks ran $1350 through them. HP charged something like $1200 when I bought the 8710.

The Dell has a backlit keyboard. I checked with Dell's tech team while I was buying to make sure, and it's the style they use on the XPS laptops. I don't know if you've ever seen the backlit XPS laptop keyboards, but they're really nice in the dark.

Sales, who checked with the tech team, assured me the screen on the Dell is a matte finish screen. We'll see when it arrives... IMO, whoever decided to put glossy screens on a laptop has obviously never used a laptop, and should be slapped.


Things I did NOT like about the HP, and the reason I'm switching:

Well, maybe I'll start with what I liked about it then move on to that... The 8710 has wonderful battery life. With the HP Extended Capacity Battery (12 cell add-on, making the laptop's battery a total of 20 cells) it gets 8.5 hours running in Vista with the screen on low and typing notes in OpenOffice. 7.5 hours working in 3D with Maya and ZBrush open. 4 hours idle without the extra battery, 3 to 3.5 working in Maya. I think the Dell will be similar, but it does not have the option of an add-on battery.

The HP laptop uses lots of capacitive buttons. Those are the kind that trigger when your finger enters the area above them, without you having to "press" anything. I HATED those things. They are right above the number bar, underneath a completely smooth black transparent bar. There are no physical marks on the bar to show you where the buttons are. On the 8710, if the lights are off, you cannot see where the buttons are at all. All you can do is tap around and try to remember what number button the wifi switch was close to. When a function is on it's fine because it's lit, but when it's off you can't find it. That's fixed on the 8730, because the buttons stay constantly lit. (well, "fixed", depending if you want them lit all the time.) Also, since they trigger when your finger goes over them, I was constantly hitting them. "No, HP Info Center, go away. I was trying to push the number 4."

Their volume slider is also a capacitive device, and very hard to use. It relies on O.S. driver support to function, and shows an O.S.D. that interferes with other applications. Playing games, for example, I could not change the volume because it would send enormous flurries of the -ESC- key to the game, either crashing something or just going in and out of the pause menu really fast. This was with the volume O.S.D. disabled. With it enabled, changing the volume would throw me back to the desktop entirely, sometimes leaving the game running in the background, sometimes leaving it crashed. With the O.S.D. disabled, you get absolutely no feedback for what volume level you are at.

I would describe the 8710 as "delicate" with consumer-grade construction. Maybe the 8730 is better, but the case looked identical. The 8710 screen had significant flex. Pushing on the back cover would cause visible ripples on the screen, meaning carrying in a bag will likely cause blotchy spots or dead pixels. Once while I was carrying the unit in a backpack, I took it out to find the hard drive plate had popped out and was bulging between the screw and its locking tabs.

NVidia sends you to HP for drivers. HP is notoriously terrible at drivers. My HP 9180 printer drivers currently intercept all URL requests from anything that isn't a web browser. When the printer is off and a URL is clicked, the HP drivers lock the sending program for 40 seconds (!) while it looks for the printer on the network. After the 40 second timeout the app becomes responsive again and the URL goes to Firefox like it should. If I end task on the HP drivers, the problem stops. I'm pretty sure I don't want HP to be in charge of my Quadro drivers.

And finally, the "last straw" reason I'm switching. HP shipped my 8710 with a defective screen. I ordered UXGA (1900x1200) matte, and it had an inch-high halo of light bleed on the bottom edge. (if center of screen is 100% black and Notepad is 0%, the bottom edge was 70% black.) Showed it to one of the HP dev people at SigGraph, he said "oh yeah that's a problem, that shouldn't be like that." So I sent it in for work. Like several other people you can find on the internet, mine got sent back with an SXGA (1680x1050) glossy screen, that was also defective and blanked out as soon as windows finished loading. On the second return, they refused to send an in-house repair visit as a special case, saying since I didn't order that warranty they would not send someone out even to correct a major blunder on their part. So, they happily routed the laptop directly into the path of Hurricane Ike, which everybody knew was coming. After a week and a half delay, they waited two days to start working on it, even though it was next in queue before the hurricane. When they looked at it, they found out they had shipped it with a defective Ethernet port, which required a motherboard replacement. (I had been only using wireless up till then.) That pushed the ETA back another three weeks, and they never offered to configure a new unit instead. In two and a half months, I have only actually had posession of the 8710 for two weeks.

So, my advice would be to avoid HP, on the following grounds:
* It's obvious they will ship your unit with NO QA WHATSOEVER. A dead Ethernet port would never pass ANY quality assurance test, even if the light bleed on the screen wasn't enough.
* They do not stock their repair facility with a full set of parts.
* If they don't have what you ordered, they replace it with whatever's cheap and hope you don't notice. I've read four or five different people online complaining about HP replacing their high-res matte screen with a low-res glossy screen.
* They will not go the extra step to correct their own mistakes. If they replace your screen with an etch-a-sketch, you won't get a service escalation to get it in working order faster.
* I rarely spoke to someone who was easy to understand, and often spoke to someone who did not understand me without speaking pidgin-English. I was usually routed to the wrong place. I had to call their returns line eight times, every time, because the automatic system would hang up on me seven out of eight times I called.
* During the fallout of the massive support delay, one of their phone reps actually tried to lie to me about the receipt date (Sept. 11 vs Sept. 17th) when I was challenging them on breaking their turnaround time. A: In previous conversations HP reps had quoted the 11th. B: My DHL tracking stated the 11th. HP rep tried to tell me on the 22nd that they were still in their time frame because they got it the 17th.
* When I told them I was returning the unit, THEN they offered me a new one.
* The Dell is cheaper.

-- Brian

 

I have no experience with HP warranties and such so I cannot comment on that. However, I recently worked (for a limited time) on a 8710w and specifically examined it thoroughly to check the build quality. To me it looked extremely well built and solid, with little flex on the lid. The owner was carrying it around all the time in various environments and had zero issues with it. I was positively impressed by the build quality, which I liked more than a Dell M6300 I saw some time ago.
On the other hand, the 4 RAM slots on the M6400 are tempting indeed (and are the main reason for me to also consider the Dell).
In the end it will probably depend on which one will be available sooner with a LED display here and on the delivery time.

Dragos

 

It's entirely possible that I am swayed by a review I read saying that the reviewer pressed on the back of a Dell m6300 screen and was unable to flex it enough to disturb the screen on the other side without applying serious pressure. Haven't seen it for myself yet. I was able to take my 8710 screen by the top two corners and twist it by about 10 to 15 degrees without applying unreasonable pressure, and was able to disturb the screen by pressing on the back quite easily. (I frequently see consumer laptops that have been carried a lot, with bright or dark blotchy spots on the screen in exactly the places that show disturbance when I press on the back of the lid, so it worried me.)

I do have to say I liked the HP laptop a lot. Their pre-shipping QA and service were a dismal failure approaching criminal, and their sales agreement (which you see after you've bought the unit) gives them full rights to sell you used components as new, and replace defective components with wrong ones (which they apparently do frequently.)

Another thing I didn't mention before, is after I received the unit back the first time (with the wrong screen in it) I found the tech had botched the repair and stressed the plastic on the screen bezel. There was a noticeable stressed / half broken mark on the plastic where a tech had pried at the screen improperly and damaged the housing, and then happily put it back in place.

Even assuming that the internet is wrong and I'm the only one who will get botched service from HP, I would consider those capacitive multifunction buttons a big negative mark. I was -constantly- hitting those by mistake and having to close the stupid HP info center.

The USB ports are all on the front of the sides of the case also, which puts your wireless dongles / thumbdrives etc. in the way of your portable mouse space, if your table is small. Dell's are on the back end of the side panels.

Oh, and I'm waiting to see if the Dell does this too, but I would frequently get the corners of my fingers caught underneath the key above the one I was typing. When you press down on a key on the HP laptop, it leaves an open gap between that key and the key above. My typing tendencies led my fingers into that gap a lot, but that's just me.

Everything but the capacitive buttons and the screen and service, I liked a lot. The extended capacity battery was amazing, an accessory not available from Dell, and it was very light compared to other 17" powerhouse laptops I've seen. The Dell m6400 claims weight similar to the HP, so when you read reviews saying it is a heavy beast of a laptop, don't listen --- those reviewers are probably used to 15" laptops, and that's not a valid comparison.

I did read reviews that worried me saying the m6400 chipset is a "desktop" chipset, but I can't really verify that. I don't know how they could have the Centrino logo if they didn't have a chipset with advanced power saving? (Did I just assume it was Centrino logo certified?) I'll just have to see when it gets here. Worst case scenario the desktop chipset might take the battery life from 4 hours down to 3, and third party extended capacity batteries are probably available. I plug in anytime I'm not moving the thing anyway.

 

I'm not trying to fight you , I actually take careful notice of your experiences as a HP owner. I have to admit I'm a little biased towards HP (just subjectively I seem to trust them more) but I'm in the position of deciding between those two and in the end the most convenient will win. Build quality is a big factor for me so if the Dell proves to be sturdier, then so be it.
What I don't like about the Dell: seems to be actually heavier than the HP 8730w (at least on paper). the Dell specs state 8.54 lbs (3.88kg) with a SSD instead of hard-disk. HP says: starting at 7.6 lbs (no clarification on config, though). And the Dell also has a 210w adapter which weights 2.6lbs (no idea about HP adapter weight but it's 150W so I suspect is smaller).
Also, I don't think the Dell will actually have the Centrino logo. If you check the HP specs you'll see lots of Centrino blah blah about manageability, VPro etc which is completely absent from the M6400 specs. And yes, the Q43 Express IS a desktop chipset and I'm pretty sure (hope to be proved wrong) that autonomy will be very low. The M6400 looks to me more like a packaged desktop (4 slots, 2 real HDD bays) which depending on the needs, might be exactly what someone needs. From a power-user POV is ideal, as it simply circumvents typical notebook limitations. From someone more travel oriented, it might not be so convenient.

Dragos

 

no, i'm just saying that nvidia quadro 3700m is based on g92 architecture:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/12/nvidia-g92s-g94-reportedly

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/28/nvidia-55nm-parts-bad

and, for some reason, nvidia changes the name of the same chip 3 times, from
8800, through 9800 to 150:

http://www.theinquirer.net/feeds/rss/generic/en/GB/inq/latest/gb/inquirer/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/03/nvidia-sticks-names-old-cards

bottom line is, i wouldn't settle for solution which should keep lousy
produced parts from being defective: upgrading bios to run gpu
fan all the time/at higher speed..

ps. i know about inq reputation, but recently apple, beside hp and
dell, also admitted that macpro also have gpu problems, contrary
to nvidia initial statement that only hp got limited quantity of
defective gpu's..

 

Did you compare the screens of the 8730 and M6400 at SIGGRAPH? Did you see the W700? If so, how would you compare them?

 

...well for all those looking for a comparison between the HP8730w and the DELL m6400, Randall Kennedy from Infoworld will be posting a review and comparison of the two beasts in a couple of days...so just seat tight and hopefully all questions will be answered.

 

Hey... this looks helpful discussion.. because I also considered both 8730w and m6400. As you guys know.. this kind of decision depends pretty much on personal purpose..

I have used 2 laptops until now.. 12.1 inch samsung (5 yrs old), 13.3 inch sony (4 yrs old).. But this time I wanted to have a big desktop-replacable one.. In my case, the main factors were weight, LCD screen(1920x1200 and LED), durability, price, timely arrival (I needed this ASAP), CPU etc..

I decided 8730w. A primary reason to discard m6400 was its weight.. Both ones provides 1920x1200. That's OK, but I had to give up such good screen based on LED by choosing 8730w. I don't think Dream-Color option is available now.. Even customization menu does not have such option as advertised.. (post reply if I am wrong)

Surely we already begin compromising 17 inch high-performance laptops with their weight. But.. I know very well that 1 pound difference(containing power supply) is huge. So I chose 8730w. (I know only one less-weight model than HP 8730w is available with similar spec: samsung R710-AS25U -- 6.8 pbs with 1920x1200 LCD, 2.53 GHz CPU, DDR3 4GB RAM. But we can't buy it here..)

Basically, both models support all new fancy savvy features of current PC technologies.. But I needed to make balance at some point because of my budget.. You know.. $4000 or $5000 is non-sense price..

Considering my usage.. I concluded Core2Extreme CPU and DDR3 memory are not necessary for me.. Those two make the price too expensive..

The following is how I placed a HP 8730w order.. for you guys reference.

After I decided to go with 8730w, my concern was spec.. Originally I tried a customized model.. But HP disappointed me.. For customizated models, delivery was too long: 3 weeks. Even though they mention just ~1 week as an estimation in their website. After one week I placed an order, what I heard by calling HP customer service is that 1 week is just "estimation", usually 3 weeks is required for customized models.. Are they kidding? They should change their notice in the website.. (I don't know Dell in this aspect)

While I was waiting the HP customized model, pre-configured models begin to be widely available over several retail websites with cheaper price..

So I gave up customization.. I ordered 8730w (KS072UT) again at one of the retail sites.. It's 5~7% cheaper than in the HP site and also comes with credit card mileage..

 

ArmadA123....has your HP arrived yet? Can you give some first impressions?

 

Here is that review:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/12/17/51TC-mobile-workstations_1.html



I'm surprised that you guys are saying that the lid on the 8730w is not all that good; JerryJ in his review had very high opinions for the 8530w lid:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=307034

 

I currently own both, having just bought myself an 8730w (KS069UT) as a replacement for my M6400 which has a CCFL screen with color issues, as described in this thread:



Advantages of the M6400 (WUXGA CCFL, non-Covet):

• Has space for two internal hard drives plus the optical drive. With the HP you have to choose between either a modular hard drive or an optical drive in its Upgrade Bay slot. (However when the HP is docked in an Advanced Docking Station it provides an additional SATA Upgrade Bay so you can have a total of three drives).
• M6400 uses DDR3 instead of DDR2 with the 8730w.
• When in the E-port Plus docking station, the M6400 can output to two independent LCD displays thanks to the two DVI connections. With the 8730w (even in the Advanced Docking Station), you can only output simultaneously to one DVI and one VGA monitor.
• The M6400 has a better anti-glare coating. The 8730w's matte screen has a noticeably gritty texture.
• Backlit keyboard on the M6400 is a nice touch.

Advantages of 8730w (WSXGA+ CCFL, non-Dreamcolor):

• 8730w's has much more accurate color. Even though it doesn't compare to an external monitor, the 8730w's color is probably the best out of the 6 laptop's I've owned. The M6400 CCFL has the worst color I've seen, it is incapable of displaying some basic shades of green.
• Build quality seems better on the 8730w. The unit feels more solid than the M6400.
• Styling on the 8730w is more classy and elegant, although both machines are beautiful in my opinion. Its just two completely different approaches to styling.
• WSXGA+ resolution. In my opinion, on a 17" screen this is a good balance between real-estate and readability, compared to WUXGA on the Dell, and WXGA+ on my previous machine.

 

Mavtech, can u eleborate on the build quality differences between the M6400 and the 8730w ?

BTW, have you seen the RGBLED on the m6400 ?

 

That screen is the same as "DreamColor", which means same quality, just different marketing names.

 

I think most differences were pointed out. The M6400 is more a transportable workstation and the 8730w is more a mobile workstation. I don't have a 8730w so I can't compare built quality.

M6400
+ 16GB Ram (or 8GB "cheap")
+ 2x hdd + DVD drive
+ same motherboard for normal cpus + extreme cpus (cheaper upgrade)
+ "dreamcolor" display available with a E2E cover --> better contrast + black levels (in tradeoff with a bit a glare)
+ no battery drain
+ better located interconnections. I use a mouse so I need the space right of the notebook.
+ Powered Firewire 800 port
+ PCMCIA + Express Card Slots

8730w
+ lighter
+ slightly better batterylife
+ extra battery
+ better built quality (well the M6400 is very well built either)

 

I haven't seen the RGBLED on either, I absolutely wasn't interested in getting a wide gamut display.

I think both machines have good build quality but the 8730w seems slightly superior to me. This is something you notice as soon as you touch the top cover of both units, the M6400 feels like standard plastic but the 8730w feels more metallic even though I know its probably just plastic as well.

One of the reasons why the M6400 might be considered less portable:



The M6400's power brick weighs close to 2 1/2 lbs compared to just over 1 lb with the 8730w's.

Personally, if I had to choose between a fully working M6400 (no display problems) and an 8730w, I would go for the M6400 just because of the two DVI outputs in the dock and the ability to have 2 HDs + 1 DVD while on the road.

 

The lid of the M6400 is metal.

 

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The problem for me is not 8 GB vs 16 GB, as I don't need 16GB. However, to put 8GB in the HP is VERY expensive (1200 USD) because you need to use 4GB DIMMS (which are expensive). ""

I have 8 gb in my hp 8510 p and the cost was about $650 or so . 2 sticks of G-skill .
And I would go HP because in my experience support was much better than at Dell .