E14 : Trackpad Discussion Only

the .7z is the source code. don't get that.


the exe is the actual file.

the settings.txt is well...telling you what does what

 

Reil, is there anyway to add the ability to disable the horizontal two finger scroll, or make it so when there's an option to do up/down and left/right scrolling its not jumping left/right when trying to scroll up/down only?

 

Two Finger Scroll doesn't have horizontal scrolling abilities. Thats Synaptic's drivers.

Check there.

I'm pretty glad I found out about this software when I was optimizing my netbook.

 

I use Reil's program which has the horizontal scroll.

 

To anyone using reil's great program, don't forget to turn off all scrolling and buton tapping in the Synaptics touchpad software.

I know it's obvious, but I forgot anyway...

 

can you explain the sequence of scrolling you are doing when this happens? like are you doing multiple small scroll down actions consecutively when it jumps?

are you by any chance doing an upward scroll motion followed by a downward motion? or vice versa? if it falls into this bucket, i see somewhat crazy values for delta x when it goes up to down or down to up where the delta is pretty large for 1 packet and back to normal the next. its very odd.

if i can think of a decent algorithm (or find one) to filter the delta x and delta y values through, i'll consider adding it.

 

Vision a window that can scroll all 4 ways

When youre on the left side of the window and the top of the window and want to just scroll straight down, I often find it jumping to the right of the window and back and forth left/right. I think a bit of it just has to do with the synaptics drivers detecting the wrong inputs tho. So if there was a way that the program detected the initial scrolling direction when there were multiple ways to scroll, and only let it scroll that direction, it might be good.

Also, another suggestion. I hate to ask you to do things though, because this is a free program that you are already providing to us. Anyways, maybe up/down 3 finger swipes could trigger keyboard commands. You could, for example, trigger a keyboard command/button that brings up "Switcher" which is an OS X Expose like program for Windows.

 

well any delta x movement is translated directly into horizontal scroll, the problem is that the scrolling code doesn't buffer packets and attempt to figure out what you were trying to do. for each packet, as it receives it, it chooses what directions to scroll. there's no history and adding one would actually prevent being able to make scroll motions in a L shape to do vertical then horizontal immediately after.

there's a simple filter i'm testing out, if delta x is some percentage greater than delta y, prevent the vertical scroll, and the reverse for horizontal scroll. i'm not sure if i like the experience.

if you want to see something interesting, close my program and use two fingers to scroll upward from the very bottom of the pad (like off the pad below the button area). as your fingers cross the horizontal line indicating the buttons, the cursor will jump rapidly to the left or right depending on which side of the vertical line you're on. if you use three fingers, it doesn't jump.

i remember you asking for this a while back, and i'm hesitant to add such a feature because what people would probably want a fully customizable executable action mapping to the 4 cardinal directions of 3 finger scroll, which is fairly complex. i also remember either you or someone requesting the ability to hold down keys and release when the fingers are off the pad. that is something i'm even more hesitant about because i worry about how that would interact if you press the same physical keys on the keyboard or if something happens and my program never unpresses the keys.

to expand on your suggestion, this is something i was thinking about in the past then i thought about how long it would take me to do and i went meh and haven't thought about it since.

support customizable actions/key sequences/mouse button mapping for the following events:
-double and triple taps on the corners
-holding down the pad for 2-3 seconds on the corners
-4 cardinal directions of 3 finger scroll

 

Thanks, hopefully the scrolling works out. And yea, I can see the jumpiness in the mood pad.

 

uploaded a new version, 1 new setting in the scrolling tab, delta ratio threshold. just so people know, i have no idea what to name any settings, so they're named after the exact change in programmatic behavior. if you have more intuitive suggestions, i'd be glad to hear it.

what it does, this is a bit hard to explain:
dX is delta x
dY is delta y
for horizontal scrolling, if dX * 100 / dY > this configuration value, allow horizontal scrolling
for vertical scrolling, if dY * 100 / dX > this configuration value, allow vertical scrolling.

the end result is if you set this value to 0, it'll always scroll both directions.
if you set this to 100, then it will tend to scroll 1 of the two directions (except where dx / dy = 1), depending on the angle of the scroll. i think its roughly like if you divided the touchpad into 4 directions and it can only choose one. do something in the middle and there'll be something like a small deadzone around each of the 4 directions.

 

can i get the link please?

 

Whoa I had no idea there was a whole continuation of the Two Finger Scroll project going on in this forum. Where have I been?

Anyway, I wanted to try to do something like this but I don't know C++. Just Python and I haven't looked into bridging the two together yet. Tho Python is based on C I'm pretty sure.

 

I finally figured out how to enable right clicking without pressing the button.

If you enable the "Top Right Action" tap zone and set it for Secondary Click (context menus, special drag), you can tap anywhere (except top right corner) for normal clicking and tap the top right corner for left click.

This is a tremendous improvement to my touchpad experience, as I no longer have to press down with my thumb for anything, not even to pull up the context menu. If I ignore the OSX-specific features such as smooth zooming, etc., this context menu tap zone feature, combined with Momentum Glide, Coasting and Edge Motion for 2 finger scroll, puts the Envy touchpad on a par with the MBP touchpad IMO.

 

Im getting a MSVCR100.dll missing file error when I try to install.

 

Ditto. I've got a similar problem when I try to start Photoshop Paint Pro X3 as well, where it can't find a certain DLL. I have a feeling that CCleaner got overzealous at some point - if you've also used its registry cleaner, that would support that theory...

 

Someone posted the DLL a while back that u just place in the same location as the touchpad program.

 

Nope I haven't. Unless the computer automatically does it or something. I can run that program fine btw.

 

you need the MS C++ 2010 redistributable

added an install.txt with that link.

 

Is it limited to the x86 version? I installed the x64 package, since I am, like everyone else here, running on an x64 system. My assumption was that the x86/x64 packages were essentially the same thing for different systems, but it could be that they're tied to the bit-rating of the program they're running, and not the system they're running on.

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but your app just got Owners' Lounge status, but there doesn't seem to be a post that gives a concise overview of it, and I'm too busy for now to dredge through the thread for all of the relevant information right now. Perhaps you could write a brief overview and submit it to 2.0 as the link for the Owners' Lounge.

 

i don't think its a x64 app, unless that's what visual studio does by default. i don't think x86 and x64 are the same since VS installs both variants.

it doesn't really need a explanation, its basically two-finger-scroll rewritten in windows forms c++ instead of borland. some things are triggered differently (like the taps), which i found more reliable but its roughly the same thing.

on a separate topic, Mike415, i read about how to trap the keyboard, which is necessary for a intuitive settings dialog for keyboard actions, and i would need a global keyboard hook. that's something i really, really don't want to do, so i probably won't do that.

i haven't used switcher in a long time, probably since it first came out with 2.0, what causes it to trigger? win+tab? i actually don't get how triggering it with a three finger scroll will work, are you expecting it to hold down the key until a tap occurs?

 

I was just thinking the basics - what is it, why is it better than the standard setup/two-finger-scroll, where do we get it, how do we install it, how do we use it/tweak it.

I'll try downloading the x86 package when I get a chance and see if that works for the install.

 

Thats too bad. Anyways you can set your own shortcuts. Right now mine is the Application button between alt and cntrl on the right side. I also set it to 3 finger swipe right which triggers as button 2.

But I thought a downward or upward 3 finger swipe could trigger some keyboard combo set by the user that you can make a shortcut for Switcher.

 

so all you want is a three finger scroll up or down to press and release some key combination? it doesn't have to hold down a key?

its not like alt+tab, where it would only be useful if the program continued to hold alt and kept pressing tab?

 

well i wrote a primitive dialog that doesn't give you a whole lot of options.

so i uploaded a new version, there's a new tab called Actions. its basically a set of hardcoded actions, like alt+tab, mouse x button 1 (usually back) mouse x button 2 (usually forward), win+tab, lwin+~ (i only added this last one for switcher, if this is the wrong combo, tell me, i don't use switcher)

if you use one of the paired actions, it will hold down the primary key (alt or win) until you lift your fingers off the pad.

for example if you use alt+tab for the left/right paired action, if you do a three finger scroll to the left and keep your fingers on the pad, it'll initiate the alt+tab keeping alt held. then if you keep scrolling, it'll press tab each time you cover the trigger distance. when you lift your fingers, it'll release the alt button.

this gets a little wonky if you use both up/down paired actions and left/right paired actions, one with win+ and the other with alt+ and do three finger scrolling in multiple directions without lifting your fingers off the pad.

from the settings.txt
Three Finger Scroll
Left/Right Pair or Up/Down Pair - some actions only make sense when paired, like alt+tab and alt+shift+tab. Disabling this will allow you to set individual left, right, up or down actions, depending on which one you disable.

Trigger Distance - the percent distance of the trackpad you have to cover in order to trigger the corresponding action. e.g. 10% means you have to cover 10% of the total distance of the trackpad to trigger.

 

WOW! Thanks Reil!

You have to set your own for tht combo in switcher but it works great. I tried out the paired which are really cool for Flip 3D, but I prefer the back/forward in browser for those.

Awesome stuff!

 

Does it make a difference if I run reil's program in the Program Files folder or the Program Files (x86) folder?

Also, are there any settings I can tweak to prevent the cursor from jumping across the screen as I type? I have the palm check setting all the way to the right already, but still find that the cursor moves around as I type.

 

I use a program called touchpad locker or something to disable mouse clicks or whatever you want during typing. As for Reil's program, I just threw it in the regular program files with the DLL needed and checked start at startup after saying I dont want the warning prompt so it doesnt ask every startup. It doesnt matter where you put it though.

 

wow reil. thank you for adding the new features. much appreciated.

 

On my Envy 14, the cursor kept jumping around the screen when I'd type as my palm would naturally touch the trackpad. After going through all the settings for the ClickPad, the only thing that alleviates the problem is setting the PalmCheck Sensitivity all the way to the Maximum level in the red. Any lower setting, and the cursor still bounces around the screen as I type.

The program warns, though, that you're more likely to experience missed motions or taps if the slider is in the red zone. So far, I haven't run into any problems like this, but I haven't used the laptop much since moving the sensitivity into the red zone.

Has anyone else needed to increase the PalmCheck sensitivity all the way to the red, and if so, have you run into any missing motions or taps or other issues?

Otherwise, are there any other suggestions for getting the cursor to stay still while you're typing?

I really like the Envy 14--nice keyboard, screen, etc. But I wish the trackpad were more like the one on the MacBook, which is beautifully designed.

 

I don't think the palm check thing works for me. I am currently trying a google code program called TouchFreeze. It seems to work much better. There is another program called Paradisoft Touchpad Locker that someone else suggested when I asked the same question. I'm not sure which I like better, but both do much better than the Synaptics driver.

I am currently using Reil's program along with TouchFreeze. It seems to be working well for me.

 

Where can we download reil's program? Can someone please post a link or direct me to the download site.

Thanks

 

There's a link in the setup section of the Owners' Lounge's first post: Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire

@reil, you were right about x86 C++, it installs alongside x64, and is required for this app.

 

Reli,

I love the app! Thanks soo much for contributing to our envy community. I have one question/bug report (?).

When I scroll down on a page with inertial scrolling (easeincirc, duration 1150) it works great, however, when I scroll up on a page the mouse cursor sometimes will get a little glitchy and the cursor will move to the top of the screen making me have to go and move the cursor down onto the page to scroll again. Do you have any suggestions as to why this is?

 

It wont let me open this file - it makes me do a web search to try and find the right program...what am I doing wrong?

 

where do we install this app? anywhere specific?

 

Is there somewhere i can download the older version of reil's program? I dont much like the new one. Cant get it to work like the old one

Thanks

 

His new app works the exact same as the old one except with some more options for me...

It doesn't matter where you install it I don't think. I just placed it in a folder in Program Files and set it to start with Windows.

 

based on what i remember about the changes i've made, i believe all the functionality if the same (except for 3 finger scroll obviously), it just has configuration around some pieces that weren't configurable before.

like if the old version you're using didn't have the max z threshold, just increase it to the max and it'll be equivalent to the old version. same with max w threshold.

for delta ratio threshold, just reduce it all the way.

the other settings i believe were there from the start.

and yes i realize the naming of the settings suck, but i have no idea how to intuitively describe them accurately. if anyone has any suggestions, i'd be glad to hear it. the problem is every simplification i can think of is not entirely correct and could be misleading if i change the name.

 

the code doesn't differentiate between directions. down and up are equivalent (basically a value with either be negative or positive and will be passed to the os in a similar manner). the way you are scrolling must be different, which would make sense since its near impossible to actually duplicate the movement perfectly in both directions.

if i remember right, since its been awhile since i investigated it, it basically has to do with how the packets of data are coming from the SDK. when you are doing two finger, there are actually some packets as you put your fingers down that only have a single finger before you put down your second finger, and i won't block those from the OS (which will move your cursor). same thing will happen when you finish the scroll and lift your fingers off.

i remember this wasn't something i could really do anything unless i added some sort of buffering of packets and read a sequence of data to guess what the user was trying to do instead of handling each packet as they arrive. this would add a fair amount of complexity and i'm not confident i could get this working in a usable manner.

 

the app doesn't care where it is except if you have start with windows checked, since it writes the path to itself to the registry.

it reads/write stuff to the registry so all settings except start with windows will carry over when moved. if you move it, just check the start with windows and save again.

this is the same way two-finger-scroll works.

 

so to people using my application and wondering about palm check. i don't believe any of the synaptics settings have any bearing on how my application works. i think palm check is roughly re-implemented as the maximum z threshold (or is it w? i think its z, its been a while) in my application.

palm check is used when you use the synaptics tapping, scrolling, etc. any third party application will have to re-implement any settings. i also don't know of any documentation about what the palm check values map to so third party apps can mimic the behavior.

 

so should we disable synaptics when using your app?

 

that's a decision you have to make on your own. except for two finger scrolling, i believe every other feature in my app can be disabled and two finger scroll can't be disabled because that was the point of the app. if you don't want two finger scroll, you have no reason to use my app.

you have to decide feature by feature, which app you would prefer to handle it. i have no recommendations, which is why pretty much everything is configurable. the only thing you probably shouldn't do is have both handle the same thing, for example single finger taps, otherwise both will do a click for the single tap, resulted in a double click. there are also features that interfere with each other like the pinch to zoom, since there's no way for a third party app to know about things like that (the SDK doesn't expose enough information).

there's no right answer here, its all personal preference.

 

loving reil's app, but annoying thing is when typing and my hand accidentally brushes touchpad the thing just jumps all over the place. It's really annoying

 

if you mean brushing the pad with your palm moves your cursor, cursor movement is handled by synaptics, so you can adjust the palm check setting.

if i have palm check set to anything but the maximum, the cursor moves when i brush my palm against the pad.

 

I have it on max and it still does this

 

Download the google code program called TouchFreeze to prevent the touchpad from screwing up your typing. I use it in conjunction with reil's program.

 

Don't use TouchFreeze. Im not sure if it works and it takes up more memory than an AHK script would. Just google around for the script and you should find it.

 

Why not just double-tap the top-left corner to disable the pad?

 

if you updated your drivers....roll back to the previous one.